Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51983935][img]https://my.mixtape.moe/wfotgl.png[/img] I'm just saying[/QUOTE] Saying what?

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51983855]Man nobody is invested in this scenario more than you. 165 posts in less than a week, wow.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm really really interested in this event, and because of that I've posted a lot in the thread that's about it. Is there something wrong with that? :v

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;51983591]It would be a reasonable response if in the original video he said "We should stop thinking in terms of race"... But in the video [i]I[/i] watched, he said "Rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites" and "Oppression doesn't exist in America" So it's actually just a fucking stupid response.[/QUOTE] What exactly do you want him to do ? Write an essay about what he said, what people said about what he said, and how things devolved from there ? Spend another hour on video awkwardly talk about his own points ? Suddenly become good at stating his opinions in the span of five or six days when he was always, as he acknowledges it, bad at debating and stating his opinions as a whole ? Do you want him to never change his opinions so you can keep pointing at Jontron as that guy who said something moronic about race ?

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51983935][img]https://my.mixtape.moe/wfotgl.png[/img] I'm just saying [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting, second time in a month of you joining" - icemaz))[/highlight][/QUOTE] This is not adding anything to the discussion.

Evidently i cant get across what im trying to say properly so im going to just stop posting in this thread.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51984029]I completely understand he said some dumb shit and all but dont some of you guys think its kind of questionable to just borderline ignore his statement about it and remove any possibility of him actually learning anything or being genuine when he says he might not have meant what he ended up saying? Do you want him to learn from his mistakes or do you want him to keep spiraling down this path? I mean i get it, its good to question things and peoples intentions on some level on the off chance they're not being honest, but jesus.[/QUOTE] ugh this post is painful No one wants jontron to spiral down this path (jesus christ), and criticising him for saying stupid shit or doubting his sincerity won't make him spiral down the path any further (jesus CHRIST). I've seen this post too many times, it's honestly worse than that "I have a black friend" argument a few posts up. I'm going to call it the "poor little racist :(" argument because that's what it is. 1. Idiot says stupid shit, either bigoted or straight up racist shit. 2. People rightfully and harshly criticizes that person for those remarks. 3. Someone attempts to shift the criticism onto the criticizers by painting the idiot as a poor poor victim even though this is facepunch and jontron isn't going to read any of this posts, or think "wow these guys are dicks, I MUST BE RIGHT"

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51984029]I completely understand he said some dumb shit and all but dont some of you guys think its kind of questionable to just borderline ignore his statement about it and remove any possibility of him actually learning anything or being genuine when he says he might not have meant what he ended up saying? Do you want him to learn from his mistakes or do you want him to keep spiraling down this path? I mean i get it, its good to question things and peoples intentions on some level on the off chance they're not being honest, but jesus.[/QUOTE] It's probably how his explanation of his arguments during the debate felt like it had no relation to what his actual arguments were. I do think he made some mistakes in the heat of the moment and have learned from them, but I don't get how he can think that his own words were misinterpreted when they were so straight-forward. I think he would be better off implying that "I should have argued this during the debate" instead of "this is what what I meant to argue the entire time".

I think people forget that inexperienced debaters can actually be REALLY bad at accurately presenting their ideas on the spot, especially when emotions are high. Generally, I don't consider a person's opinions as well established until they've been saying it for at least a few years.

oh btw jontron's video wasn't an apology video and if you think it was then you're delusional. it was 10 seconds of him saying "I wasn't prepared for the debate, I suck at debate" and 4 minutes of doubling down on some of the shit he said or blaming others for his stupid shit.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51984136]oh btw jontron's video wasn't an apology video and if you think it was then you're delusional. it was 10 seconds of him saying "I wasn't prepared for the debate, I suck at debate" and 4 minutes of doubling down on some of the shit he said or blaming others for his stupid shit.[/QUOTE] You're right, it was a clarification, not an apology, video.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51984143]You're right, it was a clarification, not an apology, video.[/QUOTE] and it's a pretty awful clarification video tbh because it cherrypicks the hell out of shit-tier media outlets like vox and buzzfeed for most of his statements about white people and how he was painted as a racist. It would be like me claiming that the whole country is racist because of 3 articles about how black people are terrible, you know, what Social Justice Warriors do. Jontron has the mindset of a Social Justice Warrior. 1 little thing is said and it's amplified and applied broadly to anything related to it. There are a lot of media outlets that has a problem with shitting on white people but it's not every media outlet.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51984177] it cherrypicks the hell out of shit-tier media outlets like vox and buzzfeed for most of his statements about white people and how he was painted as a racist.[/QUOTE] That's pretty much what political youtubers like Sargon of Akkad and Thunderfoot do in their videos as well. [QUOTE]It would be like me claiming that the whole country is racist because of 3 articles about how black people are terrible, you know, what Social Justice Warriors do.[/QUOTE] It's also what Buzzfeed, Polygon do by picking out a few random tweets in order to create a narrative that such-and-such group are racist or whatever in order to get a story. [QUOTE]Jontron has the mindset of a Social Justice Warrior. 1 little thing is said and it's amplified and applied broadly to anything related to it. There are a lot of media outlets that has a problem with shitting on white people but it's not every media outlet.[/QUOTE] It's a universal phenomenon that exists everywhere on the internet and at every point on any arbitrary political spectrum. We even have a word for it too, It's called clickbait.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51983742]I'd rather trust the statement he made while being able to clearly think things through.[/QUOTE] This argument doesn't make any sense though. It'd be like David Duke coming out and saying: "I'm sorry if you [I]thought[/I] I said anything offensive, I'm just bad at speaking."

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;51984258]This argument doesn't make any sense though. It'd be like David Duke coming out and saying: "I'm sorry if you thought I said anything offensive, I just got caught up in the moment."[/QUOTE] JonTron hasn't dedicated his entire life to destroying the lives of non-whites. He's not beyond the point of retribution with a heartfelt apology and a little explanation of how he knows he was wrong/what is right now. I haven't watched his response yet. I'm honestly apprehensive to, does anyone have a super brief summary of it to save me the heartbreak of more potential shittiness?

[QUOTE=Sonador;51984289]JonTron hasn't dedicated his entire life to destroying the lives of non-whites. He's not beyond the point of retribution with a heartfelt apology and a little explanation of how he knows he was wrong/what is right now.[/QUOTE] Sorry, I was using a bit of an overblown analogy there. I absolutely, 100% agree with what you're saying. If he apologised, all would be forgiven. But what he actually said was "I'm not good at debating, and what I actually meant to say was 'let's stop talking about race." Which is [B]not[/B] an apology. If Jon said: "Hey, sorry I said that stuff about black people and other races. I messed up and I'll educate myself." Or something similar, not only would I accept it, but I'd be a fan again.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;51984315]Sorry, I was using a bit of an overblown analogy there. I absolutely, 100% agree with what you're saying. If he apologised, all would be forgiven. But what he actually said was "I'm not good at debating, and what I actually meant to say was 'let's stop talking about race." Which is [B]not[/B] an apology. If Jon said: "Hey, sorry I said that stuff about black people and other races. I messed up and I'll educate myself." Or something similar, not only would I accept it, but I'd be a fan again.[/QUOTE] You and I share the exact same opinion. Thanks for clarifying for me.

To me it seems Jon might have just tried to 1-up destiny and said some stupid shit he doesn't really believe in in the progress. I know i do, i'm an absolutely awful debater, sometimes when i sort of debate things in my head (and audibly since i live alone) i sometimes say stupid shit i don't really mean. Or he might be backpedaling. I just know i'm not going to boycott JonTron just because Jon might have that "god i was stupid back then" time in his life right now.

Jon's actual opinion. [media]https://twitter.com/HarmfulOpinions/status/843459946092085248[/media]

Tbh regardless of shit Jon has said I respect him more than Destiny because at the end of it all he managed to act more mature than Mr. Shitflip that and people say pretty stupid shit under pressure. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] that isn't to say his opinions are acceptable but at least he didn't have a giant twitter meltdown

[QUOTE=J!NX;51985876]Tbh regardless of shit Jon has said I respect him more than Destiny because at the end of it all he managed to act more mature than Mr. Shitflip that and people say pretty stupid shit under pressure. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] that isn't to say his opinions are acceptable but at least he didn't have a giant twitter meltdown[/QUOTE] why is it a contest

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51986000]why is it a contest[/QUOTE] I'm not making it out to be a contest? I'm not putting a goalpost up and saying "Jon won" or "Destiny owned him clearly lol" I'm saying I can't respect someone who will freak out over nothing VS someone who talks reasonably whose political ideals I may or may not disagree with it wasn't about opinions and winning some imaginary contest.

[QUOTE=Asaratha;51986013]every post ive seen from you in this thread is "what jon said is bad, BUUUUUUUT WHAT D ESTINY DID". i'd say youre making it a contest[/QUOTE] That's cool and all but that's also a completely separate thing from what I said just now. The debate itself is a contest because that's kind of what a debate is. Maybe not literally but I don't see what the issue is? its a contest to see who can argue the best points what happened afterwards was a separate thing entirely

[QUOTE=J!NX;51986015]That's cool and all but that's also a completely separate thing from what I said just now.[/QUOTE] we're not talking about who won the debate or whoever, we're talking about you going "but destiny" like it matters at all in the context of what jon said destiny being a hotheaded jerk doesn't nullify what jon said and didn't really clarify on in his video

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51986025]we're not talking about who won the debate or whoever, we're talking about you going "but destiny" like it matters at all in the context of what jon said destiny being a hotheaded jerk doesn't nullify what jon said and didn't really clarify on in his video[/QUOTE] I may have misconstrued my point since it's late but what I mean is that despite the really ignorant shit Jon thinks I'd rather respect someone that's just a dumb ass than hotheaded. This is pretty much a 100% personal thing. Jon still deserves a lot of flak for everything and I hope a lot of people can make him understand why he's wrong about a lot of it and why he should be more clear. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] I really hope he doesn't believe everything he said to heart in the debate and he really did just fuck his points up because what he said about Japan was kind of hilarious [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Asaratha;51986013]every post ive seen from you in this thread is "what jon said is bad, BUUUUUUUT WHAT D ESTINY DID". i'd say youre making it a contest[/QUOTE] Thinking about it though, people posted about Jon and that's what I posted about, then people posted about Destiny and that's what I posted about. I agree'd with shit Destiny said even during his twitter-rage, but talked about the twitter rage itself. I don't see how those posts are related to each other. I thought one thing on Jon and another on Destiny. That is the first post where I actually talked about them both in one paragraph. I haven't been doing that in "Every post", are you confusing me with someone else or something? Because it seems pretty normal to discuss one thing and then another thing as it happens.

Yeah jon just fucked up and didn't know what he was talking about, destiny was just more prepared recommended viewin [video=youtube;VAVYEzK1Tl8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAVYEzK1Tl8[/video]

this thread: [video=youtube;Kz_mWTXcXb4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz_mWTXcXb4&[/video]

I don't care what JonTron says I will always love him! :speedfap:

[QUOTE=ThePanther;51987662]I don't care what JonTron says I will always love him! :speedfap:[/QUOTE] what if he directly addressed you on twitter "ThePanther from FP is a huge butthead, he smells like cheese, shameful"

[QUOTE=J!NX;51987678]what if he directly addressed you on twitter "ThePanther from FP is a huge butthead, he smells like cheese, shameful"[/QUOTE] Great honor to be called names by senpai

[QUOTE=J!NX;51987678]what if he directly addressed you on twitter "ThePanther from FP is a huge butthead, he smells like cheese, shameful"[/QUOTE] If that actually happened I would scream and jump out a window.