Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

It's odd because I have actually seen Japan being criticized for xenophobia and a difficult-to-assimilate-to culture. So yeah, I guess some people are saying that Japan should become less Japanese. As far as I see it, culture [I]is[/I] worth preserving, but any sort of "white" or "western" culture is not at risk of being wiped out or anything. "Western culture" is in of itself a synthesis of a long history of cultural interaction. In fact, if you look at America in particular, you'll see evidence to the contrary of any sort of ethnic or cultural genocide being even possible. Both Native Americans and African Americans were subjected to some of the most horrific treatment of any ethnic group in history, and yet their culture persists centuries later. It is very very hard to exterminate a cultural identity. Would something as big, amorphous, and pervasive as the whole of western culture be at risk of attack from those darn muzzies and sharia law? I really fucking doubt it.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51954108]Really doesn't unless you're a politician or other type of person who actually influences things badly in the real world. It's simply shallow to completely paint a person's character because of a bunch of things he said in front of a camera.[/QUOTE] why is it shallow? politics is the least shallow thing you can use to describe yourself... being shallow is not liking someone because they have different taste then you, or because they're prettier then you or stupid shit like that. if someone tells you "i hate gays, and think they should be segregated" in a conversation, there's really no way that could be taken as something shallow and small. it's entirely indicative of who they are and what their beliefs are. in jontrons case saying immigration is bad because america NEEDS to be a white mostly country is inherently toxic because if his idea was implemented people like his parents wouldnt be allowed into the country, he would never be an american in the first place, and the most mind fucking part is; he would never have gotten this idea of "white-majority" country if his "white-majority" country idea was actually implemented.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51954045]That's cool and all... but they've been talking about america. No one asks America to be less white easier. But immigration is much easier here than Japan, especially since we are majority English speaking. You should not restrict immigration to "preserve the white race"[/QUOTE] People from the outside also say that Japan should allow more immigration all the time too In SH for example any time japan's demographic collapse comes up that's pretty much the only solution people can come up with. Unless they can come up with something else their country is really going to suffer in 40 years or so. [QUOTE=Bertie;51954108]Really doesn't unless you're a politician or other type of person who actually influences things badly in the real world. It's simply shallow to completely paint a person's character because of a bunch of things he said in front of a camera.[/QUOTE] In America we vote. Which also ties into our spheres of influence, I exert influence on my friends and vice versa. Which is small, but for this man, he's got an absolutely large audience. And if you DON'T believe people listen to celebrities, might I show you the entire anti-vaccination movement?

I used to think Jontron was the most precious of cinnamon rolls, but now? I don't even know if he's a Hot Fudge Sundae Poptart.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;51954207]Watching this debate was [I]excruciating.[/I] All of Jon's points were just downright awful, he also argues like a child, all he could do was (attempt to) mock Destiny every time he couldn't come up with a proper response. I swear Jon spent half the debate just laughing, ridiculous. It's so obvious that Jon is getting a lot of his information from alt-right sources, he's was spouting off a lot of objectively false shit.[/QUOTE] Last time I checked, he's a media reviewer and not a politician. I don't think anything of this makes him less of a swell guy. The good entertainment he provides does a far better service to the world. These dumb opinions, comparatively, don't do anything to hinder society. People need to stop making everything political.

I got sent a document relating race, income, and crimes. [url]https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hpnvv0812.pdf[/url] This is from the bureau of justice statistics and shows a similar but lower amount of crime from rich blacks than low income (but not poor) whites. This is probably the best sort of evidence toward his point that black people are just violent apes. Except for the whole rich white people coming from rich white people and rich black people social class being relatively new and still based on people coming out of poverty & such. He seems to take numbers really at face value.

destiny has matured after his debate with jim a while back, good on him

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51954243]Last time I checked, he's a media reviewer and not a politician. I don't think anything of this makes him less of a swell guy. The good entertainment he provides does a far better service to the world than his dumb opinions hinder it. People need to stop making everything political.[/QUOTE] The appeal of his show, is him. His character is what made his channel grow. What he does is not special

[QUOTE=KillRay;51954255]The appeal of his show, is him. His character is what made his channel grow. What he does is not special[/QUOTE] It's special enough to have brought millions an entertaining time. Even if it is just 10 minutes from one of his videos. It far overshadows any dumb political thoughts. Walt Disney was an anti-semite. That doesn't mean he wasn't a good man.

I miss the Goof Troop days...

debate now available in the more convenient youtube format [video=youtube;6RQA9GZprqM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM[/video]

It's sad to see someone that you have followed for such a long time, during my younger days turn out to have fallen in line with the fucking Alt-right. Fuck, I didn't want to accept it but Jon's gone off the deep end and that's just sad to see since he's been both mine and so many others source of quantity entertainment for years. And that fucking blows.

Alt right? Deep end? Am I reading this right? Jon is now alt right deep end nazi because he has anti-immigration views? Whoa

[QUOTE=Deathgrunt;51954355]It's sad to see someone that you have followed for such a long time, during my younger days turn out to have fallen in line with the fucking Alt-right. Fuck, I didn't want to accept it but Jon's gone off the deep end and that's just sad to see since he's been both mine and so many others source of quantity entertainment for years. And that fucking blows.[/QUOTE] i think it just sucks that such a generally nice and sweet guy can be so incredibly rude to such large groups of people and not hold any remorse about it whatever. if only he could see that his "reasoning" that he's so adamant about on twitter was flawed and hurts so many of the people who used to love him a ton.

i wouldn't be surprised if he's been like this for well over a year (or longer) extremes have been catching a lot of people's eyes as of late. kinda sad to see he fell victim to it too

[QUOTE=Deathgrunt;51954355]It's sad to see someone that you have followed for such a long time, during my younger days turn out to have fallen in line with the fucking Alt-right. Fuck, I didn't want to accept it but Jon's gone off the deep end and that's just sad to see since he's been both mine and so many others source of quantity entertainment for years. And that fucking blows.[/QUOTE] Newsflash, he's probably always thought this way. It's just that his content has nothing to do with politics. Go ahead and hate the guy based on summarizations of a conversation. Denouncing his content is irrelevant and dumb though. [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Gamerman12;51954365]i think it just sucks that such a generally nice and sweet guy can be so incredibly rude to such large groups of people and not hold any remorse about it whatever. if only he could see that his "reasoning" that he's so adamant about on twitter was flawed and hurts so many of the people who used to love him a ton.[/QUOTE] He's a human not some deity that is flawless. I've seen many times since his Sargon conversation, Jon being presented with evidence to the contrary of his opinion and he has changed that stance.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51954243]Last time I checked, he's a media reviewer and not a politician. I don't think anything of this makes him less of a swell guy. The good entertainment he provides does a far better service to the world. These dumb opinions, comparatively, don't do anything to hinder society. People need to stop making everything political.[/QUOTE] I'll stick with the 'separate the art from the artist mentality', if I can (I'm not sure I'll be able to, though). This... is the complete opposite. You talk about not making things political but at the same time, you're directly comparing his politics to his work. Why? "Opinions on race" vs "Quality of video game reviews" is such an extraordinarily convoluted comparison

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51954362]Alt right? Deep end? Am I reading this right? Jon is now alt right deep end nazi because he has anti-immigration views? Whoa[/QUOTE] nah, that's not it at all. he's alt-right because he actively wants to keep his own race pure and not "become a minority," and is incredibly afraid of the idea that people have the ability to freely immigrate from one country to the other. that's actually the dictionary definition of alt-right, not just "being a terrible nazi!!!" but sure, put words in their mouths. he's also driving home a point of race, how there's such a difference between whites and blacks, going so far as to ignore the absolutely, 100% undeniably true history of irish-americans, because in his mind they're "white" and therefore faced no consequences. i dunno man, sounds pretty damn white nationalistic to me.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51954362]Alt right? Deep end? Am I reading this right? Jon is now alt right deep end nazi because he has anti-immigration views? Whoa[/QUOTE] a race realism rant about keeping non whites out of the american gene pool counts as "anti-immigration views" now?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51954379]I'll stick with the 'separate the art from the artist mentality', if I can (I'm not sure I'll be able to, though). This... is the complete opposite. You talk about not making things political but at the same time, you're directly comparing his politics to his work. Why? "Opinions on race" vs "Quality of video game reviews" is such an extraordinarily convoluted comparison[/QUOTE] I'm literally saying to separate the art from the artist. I'm not here to debate. Because then it's just the most charismatic party is right. I posted my thoughts. Fuck me if I worded it improperly.

Meh, I'll still watch his videos. Really discussing politics is a surefire way to be taken down a peg.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51954369]He's a human not some deity that is flawless. I've seen many times since his Sargon conversation, Jon being presented with evidence to the contrary of his opinion and he has changed that stance.[/QUOTE] oh yeah, he's definitely not perfect. nobody is lol. he is terrible at keeping his arguments well centered and only can really do it in a scripted session. his work on game grumps comes to mind, and i had been following him since just before that started. but it's just strange to see someone you've known as being very fun, life-loving, and generally happy turn over into someone who is not that at all. that's it.

I'm so sick of people putting politics in my video games

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51954369]Newsflash, he's probably always thought this way. It's just that his content has nothing to do with politics. Go ahead and hate the guy based on summarizations of a conversation. Denouncing his content is irrelevant and dumb though. [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] He's a human not some deity that is flawless. I've seen many times since his Sargon conversation, Jon being presented with evidence to the contrary of his opinion and he has changed that stance.[/QUOTE] Someone can have common decency and still be a piece of shit. You seem to think assholes only come in the "hey!! fuck you bro!! *drunk slurring*" variety. The guy's a piece of shit for being a grown man with access to a plethora of information and view points, and still thinking the way he does. Even during debate, being shown reason after reason for why his opinions needs more thought he still holds his views concretely - remarking "I would love to be proven wrong"; no he wouldn't, because he was multiple times just minutes before and stone faced the counter points thrown at him. He loves the idea that he's right and everyone is wrong because they've hopped onto a SJW bandwagon, just like all of the other "alt right" "new right" "ex left" (whatever the fuck you wanna call them) circlejerkers.

[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51954415]oh yeah, he's definitely not perfect. nobody is lol. he is terrible at keeping his arguments well centered and only can really do it in a scripted session. his work on game grumps comes to mind, and i had been following him since just before that started. but it's just strange to see someone you've known as being very fun, life-loving, and generally happy turn over into someone who is not that at all. that's it.[/QUOTE] I don't see why just because someone thinking the white demographic is being displaced in America means that they don't love life or are generally happy and fun. You realize that human beings are a little more complex than to be summarized by the 2 hour interruption match posted in the OP.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;51954222]I used to think Jontron was the most precious of cinnamon rolls, but now? I don't even know if he's a Hot Fudge Sundae Poptart.[/QUOTE] [t]http://www.thegrocerygirls.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/D/I/DI5T2.jpg.jpg[/t][t]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51BC8NeygwL.jpg[/t] Old Jon v New Jon

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51954362]Alt right? Deep end? Am I reading this right? Jon is now alt right deep end nazi because he has anti-immigration views? Whoa[/QUOTE] This is not just anti-immigration, it's anti non-white immigration without anything to back it up. He's making far too many far-right arguments to simply be moderately anti-immigration.

also before someone jumps down my throat. I'm not defending his views and I don't agree with his views and I think they're dumb opinions and ideas. If I just denounced everybody because they have an idiotic view about something I wouldn't have any friends.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51954429]I don't see why just because someone thinking the white demographic is being displaced in America means that they don't love life or are generally happy and fun. You realize that human beings are a little more complex than to be summarized by the 2 hour interruption match posted in the OP.[/QUOTE] yeah, it's totally possible to love life, be happy, be fun, and support barring the disgusting negros from entering the country because they're criminal animals who riot loot rape and murder everywhere they go

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51954450]yeah, it's totally possible to love life, be happy, be fun, and support barring the disgusting negros from entering the country because they're criminal animals who riot loot rape and murder everywhere they go[/QUOTE] Didn't watch the video yet- I'm about to. but I doubt Jon said this