James Cameron's Avatar - General

[QUOTE=dvondrake;19166592]If Jake didn't fall in love there'd be absolutely no reason for him to "change sides".[/QUOTE] Yup. That Marine leader didn't realize that Jake needed to 'get some'. Of course whereever on Pandora he got some play would be the side he would want to be on- too bad the military guy didn't recognize that because he could have arranged for Jake to have some fun and Jake wouldn't even need to look at an alien girl. Notice how the alien girl DID mention to Jake that, at a certain point, he would get to take a woman? She knew what's up. Yeah she knew he liked her, but she also showed she realized how much female companionship means to a guy. That's how the aliens won Jake over, they know what a guy needs to make his life worth living(and therefore make him loyal).

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;19166854][img]http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5667/1258334510645.jpg[/img] Gee, I dunno, maybe it's because even the zebra effect isn't 100% effective at confusing predators. Different critters evolve different traits, just like here on Earth. Why? Beats the shit outta me, but the fact that they have them seems to be working out GREAT for them. Predatory animals tend to have large, forward-facing eyes and great motion detection in order to look PAST camouflage to an extent. Saying that it's hard to remain hidden when you're moving is kind of a "no shit, Sherlock" moment considering the same applies to many animals on Earth. We've got these crazy ass little bastards called "horned lizards" all over the place out here, and they're sandy colored because we have shitloads of SAND. You can't see the little shits unless you're looking REAL carefully for them or they start to move. If your environment is lit-up like a friggen Christmas parade then you stand out more without lights than you would WITH lights.[/QUOTE] Makes me wonder where that evolutionary trend began. I mean, shit couldn't have had lights from the get-go. Did one plant just decide one day that it was going to be glowy and the rest thought, "Fuck, that guy looks so fucking rad, I want to be glowy too." until the whole forest was glowy? Then the creatures and shit were like, "God damn I'm gonna have a fuckin' seizure walking around in this forest and shit, yo" and then eventually gave in to the trend and started growing LED's under their skin?

[QUOTE=MaverickIB;19166997]Makes me wonder where that evolutionary trend began. I mean, shit couldn't have had lights from the get-go. Did one plant just decide one day that it was going to be glowy and the rest thought, "Fuck, that guy looks so fucking rad, I want to be glowy too." until the whole forest was glowy? Then the creatures and shit were like, "God damn I'm gonna have a fuckin' seizure walking around in this forest and shit, yo" and then eventually gave in to the trend and started growing LED's under their skin?[/QUOTE] Evolution is a quirky bitch. Considering the characteristics of the plants (the whole nervous system shtick) it's possible that all life on Pandora has a common ancestor.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;19166854][img]http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5667/1258334510645.jpg[/img] Gee, I dunno, maybe it's because even the zebra effect isn't 100% effective at confusing predators. Different critters evolve different traits, just like here on Earth. Why? Beats the shit outta me, but the fact that they have them seems to be working out GREAT for them. Predatory animals tend to have large, forward-facing eyes and great motion detection in order to look PAST camouflage to an extent. Saying that it's hard to remain hidden when you're moving is kind of a "no shit, Sherlock" moment considering the same applies to many animals on Earth. We've got these crazy ass little bastards called "horned lizards" all over the place out here, and they're sandy colored because we have shitloads of SAND. You can't see the little shits unless you're looking REAL carefully for them or they start to move. If your environment is lit-up like a friggen Christmas parade then you stand out more without lights than you would WITH lights.[/QUOTE] Robin Williams isn't funny. But like I already said, the place lights up wherever you touch it. Some things are always lit up but a lot of it only does that when pressure is applied. So a good slinker would just fuck the LED plants up, I mean plenty of animals already do that right now. Like warthogs, they fuck shit up and it doesn't even glow green. But that sort of goes against the whole noble savage thingy huh. That's the problem with this movie, it's view of reality is so warped it just comes off as ridiculous. The humans are so evil they're almost funny, the ecosystem only seems to be violent for the purpose of action scenes. You never get the feeling that Pandora is a feral world because it looks like Disneyland. You never feel for the characters because it feels like the writer was so afraid you wouldn't like them that he made them as perfect as possible, even the Na'vi's role in the ecosystem is questionable. I mean, what do they do? They act like killing animals is some unholy sin, they don't like fire, they don't even seem to use materials besides stone and vines. They're just so artificially perfect. There are no flaws to connect to so you can't legitimately like them. They're like hippy robots.

[QUOTE=Majache;19167172]Robin Williams isn't funny.[/quote] Perhaps not but the picture was appropriate to express my frustration. [quote]But like I already said, the place lights up wherever you touch it. Some things are always lit up but a lot of it only does that when pressure is applied. So a good slinker would just fuck the LED plants up, I mean plenty of animals already do that right now. Like warthogs, they fuck shit up and it doesn't even glow green.[/quote] The whole damn forest pulsates with light, what's a few more pulses from something walking around? Obviously the critters that CAN pick up on it get the fuck outta dodge when Mr. Thanator comes a-prowlin' and the more dim-witted creatures get eaten, at least at night. [quote]That's the problem with this movie, it's view of reality is so warped it just comes off as ridiculous. The humans are so evil they're almost funny, the ecosystem only seems to be violent for the purpose of action scenes. You never get the feeling that Pandora is a feral world because it looks like Disneyland. You never feel for the characters because it feels like the writer was so afraid you wouldn't like them that he made them as perfect as possible, even the Na'vi's role in the ecosystem is questionable. I mean, what do they do? They act like killing animals is some unholy sin, they don't like fire, they don't even seem to use materials besides stone and vines. They're just so artificially perfect. There are no flaws to connect to so you can't legitimately like them. They're like hippy robots.[/QUOTE] It's a completely alien system.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;19167028]Evolution is a quirky bitch. Considering the characteristics of the plants (the whole nervous system shtick) it's possible that all life on Pandora has a common ancestor.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure all life on earth has a common ancestor too, and we're not all samey. Shiny things are bad in nature. Organisms are attracted to shiny things so they can eat them. They're bullcrap for the same reason that the Na'vi are bullcrap, because any tribe that was warlike and ruthless would kick those blue elves in their hippy asses, and then you'd just have them. The problem is that James Camerons view of nature is this ideallic lovey dovey wonderland when in reality it's arguably even more violent and cruel than we are. So when he tries to set up this black and white world it doesn't connect to anything because that doesn't exist in real life and never has. [editline]06:09AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zero-Point;19167231]Perhaps not but the picture was appropriate to express my frustration. The whole damn forest pulsates with light, what's a few more pulses from something walking around? Obviously the critters that CAN pick up on it get the fuck outta dodge when Mr. Thanator comes a-prowlin' and the more dim-witted creatures get eaten, at least at night. It's a completely alien system.[/QUOTE] I like Picard. He's a professional B examiner. Because anything smarter than a crow would learn what plants only glow when something's there and then stake it out. So. Competition doesn't stop existing in la la land, just because it's not here. They still breed the same as us, they still hunt the same as us, so in the end they still evolve the same as us.

[QUOTE=Majache;19167265]I'm pretty sure all life on earth has a common ancestor too, and we're not all samey.[/quote] It may have been advantageous for the critters of Pandora to keep their bio-luminescent properties rather than lose them? Isn't the point of evolution to progress a species through adaptation? If they started off with bio-luminescence and it was beneficial for everything to have it then why would they lose it? [quote]Shiny things are bad in nature. Organisms are attracted to shiny things so they can eat them.[/quote] Because odds are you have a shiny thing on a dull background, whereas on Pandora you have lights on lights on lights on yet more lights. [quote]They're bullcrap for the same reason that the Na'vi are bullcrap, because any tribe that was warlike and ruthless would kick those blue elves in their hippy asses, and then you'd just have them.[/quote] The flying fuck are you on about? You went from discussing bio-luminescence to hippie tree elves. [quote]The problem is that James Camerons view of nature is this ideallic lovey dovey wonderland when in reality it's arguably even more violent and cruel than we are.[/quote] You sound like a sad person. Do you need a hug? Pandora is as "lovey dovey" as it is savage and un-tamed, and while I personally think they could've shown more of the savage side I think the movie did fairly well with that it did. Show it as too savage and you're left through the whole film wondering how the fuck we were ever able to maintain a colony there or why the Na'vi have managed to live there so long. Show it as too lovey-dovey and you're left with a planet that holds no real sense of danger. Plus people feel more welcome in an alien Wonderland than the next Catachan-esque hellplanet. [quote]So when he tries to set up this black and white world it doesn't connect to anything because that doesn't exist in real life and never has.[/QUOTE] Which makes it all the more alien and fantastic. [quote]I like Picard. He's a professional B examiner.[/quote] You mean Patrick Stewart. And yeah, he's awesome. [quote]Because anything smarter than a crow would learn what plants only glow when something's there and then stake it out.[/quote] Which is made possible by... *drumroll* EVOLUTION! Tonights contestants will receive a complementary box of Hungry Jack pancake mix! [quote]So. Competition doesn't stop existing in la la land, just because it's not here. They still breed the same as us, they still hunt the same as us, so in the end they still evolve the same as us.[/QUOTE] Who says they have to? Pandora's a different place than Earth. It's possible the whole "inter-species connection" shtick has given the Na'vi the edge in understanding that this planet is not exclusively theirs and they have a duty to help maintain a balance, unlike humans who were like "durp durp durp need moar land for food so I can make money clear them trees durp durp".

[QUOTE=Majache;19167265] The problem is that James Camerons view of nature is this ideallic lovey dovey wonderland when in reality it's arguably even more violent and cruel than we are. So when he tries to set up this black and white world it doesn't connect to anything because that doesn't exist in real life and never has. [/QUOTE] It's believable though and that's the idea behind it, it's stylized realism. You can say the same thing about star wars; 80% of it is unrealistic but it's still believable to the audience as plausibly existing.

[QUOTE=CPShArp;19167436]It's believable though and that's the idea behind it, it's stylized realism. You can say the same thing about star wars; 80% of it is unrealistic but it's still believable to the audience as plausibly existing.[/QUOTE] No it's not. It's trying to make a statement on nature and humanity but it doesn't know crap about what nature or humanity are like.

[QUOTE=Majache;19168170]No it's not. It's trying to make a statement on nature and humanity but it doesn't know crap about what nature or humanity are like.[/QUOTE] Take a chill pill pilgrim.

[QUOTE=Majache;19168170]No it's not.[/QUOTE] To 95% of the audience, what they see on screen is plausible due to the presentation. So yes, it is.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;19167434]It may have been advantageous for the critters of Pandora to keep their bio-luminescent properties rather than lose them? Isn't the point of evolution to progress a species through adaptation? If they started off with bio-luminescence and it was beneficial for everything to have it then why would they lose it? Because odds are you have a shiny thing on a dull background, whereas on Pandora you have lights on lights on lights on yet more lights. The flying fuck are you on about? You went from discussing bio-luminescence to hippie tree elves. You sound like a sad person. Do you need a hug? Pandora is as "lovey dovey" as it is savage and un-tamed, and while I personally think they could've shown more of the savage side I think the movie did fairly well with that it did. Show it as too savage and you're left through the whole film wondering how the fuck we were ever able to maintain a colony there or why the Na'vi have managed to live there so long. Show it as too lovey-dovey and you're left with a planet that holds no real sense of danger. Plus people feel more welcome in an alien Wonderland than the next Catachan-esque hellplanet. Which makes it all the more alien and fantastic. You mean Patrick Stewart. And yeah, he's awesome. Which is made possible by... *drumroll* EVOLUTION! Tonights contestants will receive a complementary box of Hungry Jack pancake mix! Who says they have to? Pandora's a different place than Earth. It's possible the whole "inter-species connection" shtick has given the Na'vi the edge in understanding that this planet is not exclusively theirs and they have a duty to help maintain a balance, unlike humans who were like "durp durp durp need moar land for food so I can make money clear them trees durp durp".[/QUOTE] But you have to get the bio lights first. And that takes up energy. So why even get them in the first place and totally change your environment so that it has to take up more resources? Evolution is ultimate efficiency(almost), it doesn't make things pretty at will. I'd assume there would be a critter that is attracted to bright lights that eats plants. Then that would get rid of most of the shiny and then having brite lite skin would suddenly become a lot less helpful. I'm talking about culture, butt hole. In a competitive environment all the best stuff is going to go to the biggest jerk with the biggest stick. This doesn't seem to apply to the Na'vi for no reason. Except for the reason that they're completely one dimensional. I'm sad because I acknowledge the driving force behind evolution. Yeah, okay. I'm saying that it's only ever savage to us bumbling silly humans. As soon as the pussy smurfs get their hands on it it's nothing but LED flowers and pony rides. Tell me, were any of the smurfs ever killed by an animal on Pandora? No? Well then there you go. But that's bad! Because he keeps trying to push this "humans are monsters save the trees" message that falls totally flat and looks really stupid. And you can make an alien world that has complex characters, that's dumb. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. But that's dumb. Pandora has predators, Pandora has disease, Pandora has danger and depth and all that stuff. At least it's supposed to. You can't create a stable society in a hostile environment with the mind set is "do as little as possible". You'd get wiped out by a more desperate and violent tribe. Of course you would if the Na'vi weren't one dimensional noble savages with no emotions whatsoever besides sadness at the actions of the humans. [editline]07:03AM[/editline] [QUOTE=CPShArp;19168274]To 95% of the audience, what they see on screen is plausible due to the presentation. So yes, it is.[/QUOTE] The opinion of 95% of the audience seems to be "cool CG I liek explosions". So not really. [editline]07:04AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Performual;19168261]Take a chill pill pilgrim.[/QUOTE] How much time have you devoted to telling me to stop spending my time talking about this movie?

[QUOTE=Majache;19168371] The opinion of 95% of the audience seems to be "cool CG I liek explosions". So not really. [/QUOTE] and the 5% that over analyzes movies in a qualm audacious manner seem to live sad lives and die as lonely men.

[QUOTE=Majache;19168371]But you have to get the bio lights first. And that takes up energy. So why even get them in the first place and totally change your environment so that it has to take up more resources? Evolution is ultimate efficiency(almost), it doesn't make things pretty at will. I'd assume there would be a critter that is attracted to bright lights that eats plants. Then that would get rid of most of the shiny and then having brite lite skin would suddenly become a lot less helpful. I'm talking about culture, butt hole. In a competitive environment all the best stuff is going to go to the biggest jerk with the biggest stick. This doesn't seem to apply to the Na'vi for no reason. Except for the reason that they're completely one dimensional. I'm sad because I acknowledge the driving force behind evolution. Yeah, okay. I'm saying that it's only ever savage to us bumbling silly humans. As soon as the pussy smurfs get their hands on it it's nothing but LED flowers and pony rides. Tell me, were any of the smurfs ever killed by an animal on Pandora? No? Well then there you go. But that's bad! Because he keeps trying to push this "humans are monsters save the trees" message that falls totally flat and looks really stupid. And you can make an alien world that has complex characters, that's dumb. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. But that's dumb. Pandora has predators, Pandora has disease, Pandora has danger and depth and all that stuff. At least it's supposed to. You can't create a stable society in a hostile environment with the mind set is "do as little as possible". You'd get wiped out by a more desperate and violent tribe. Of course you would if the Na'vi weren't one dimensional noble savages with no emotions whatsoever besides sadness at the actions of the humans. [editline]07:03AM[/editline] The opinion of 95% of the audience seems to be "cool CG I liek explosions". So not really. [editline]07:04AM[/editline] How much time have you devoted to telling me to stop spending my time talking about this movie?[/QUOTE] Suspension of disbelief. Sit back and enjoy the movie. Also, on the part about how "lovey dovey" the Na'vi are, think of human society and all of the instinctual things our mind tells us to do but that we do not. Our society/culture has a very large impact on our thought process. In intelligent beings, the ability to think often overrides instinct.

[QUOTE=CPShArp;19168548]and the 5% that over analyzes movies in a qualm audacious manner seem to live sad lives and die as lonely men.[/QUOTE] hahahahahahahahaha oh god so you're telling me that because i didn't like avatar, i'm going to die alone and unloved. Well if that ain't just the icing on the "what the fuck" cake. [editline]08:02AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Faren;19168967]Suspension of disbelief. Sit back and enjoy the movie. Also, on the part about how "lovey dovey" the Na'vi are, think of human society and all of the instinctual things our mind tells us to do but that we do not. Our society/culture has a very large impact on our thought process. In intelligent beings, the ability to think often overrides instinct.[/QUOTE] It's not about suspension of disbelief, it's about his message is inconsistent with reality and it's preachy bullshit. And the characters are boring and the story is lame. Uh, so? It's not about instinct, it's about logic. If I'm a pacifist, and you're a war mongering barbarian, and I refuse to make fire and burn down your abode, you're going to burn down mine, or you're going to drive away all of my game, or you're going to do something underhanded and cruel that I refuse to do because I'm a hippy pacifist robot, and then you'll kill me, get my land, my supplies, and my women. That's how competition works.

Saw the movie in 3d at my local Imax. Holy fuckstick!

I just saw this today, it wasn't in 3-D but it was still pretty fucking awesome! Floating mountains!

Saw it yesterday. Was fucking amazing

Even if I won't be able to view this one in 3D, I'm quite excited knowing 2 sequels are likely. [QUOTE=Majache;19168371]How much time have you devoted to telling me to stop spending my time talking about this movie?[/QUOTE] Kinda ironic question considering who's asking. I've devoted mere minutes!

I don't see a sequel in the movies future. At least, I hope not. I am content with the movies ending and I only foresee one possible sequel. :siren: [highlight] AVATAR 2: THE ALIENS RETURN [/highlight] :siren: :frogsiren: [b] AVATAR 3: PREDATOR VS NA'VI VS ALIEN VS ALIENS [/b] :frogsiren:

[QUOTE=Majache;19168371]But you have to get the bio lights first. And that takes up energy. So why even get them in the first place and totally change your environment so that it has to take up more resources? Evolution is ultimate efficiency(almost), it doesn't make things pretty at will.[/quote] That's assuming the bio-luminescence even works the same way on Pandora as it does here. "BUT IT CAN ONLY WORK THIS WAY!" And? As far as we know super-conductors only function in really fucking cold temeratures. :downs: [quote]I'd assume there would be a critter that is attracted to bright lights that eats plants. Then that would get rid of most of the shiny and then having brite lite skin would suddenly become a lot less helpful.[/quote] They probably graze during the day, it's not safe to be making lots of noise at night. Plus they would be able to see better in the day. [quote]I'm talking about culture, butt hole. In a competitive environment all the best stuff is going to go to the biggest jerk with the biggest stick. This doesn't seem to apply to the Na'vi for no reason. Except for the reason that they're completely one dimensional.[/quote] Maybe the Na'vi are more advanced in that way. "Hmm, I'd sure hate to have that happen to me, so I'm gonna leave him alone." Plus apparantley ages ago the Na'vi DID have that mentality until they were united by that-dude-whose-name-I-can't-recall-ATM, and have strangely enough been able to play nice ever since. Whoa, wait, they actually LEARNED from their history?! D: [quote]I'm sad because I acknowledge the driving force behind evolution. Yeah, okay. I'm saying that it's only ever savage to us bumbling silly humans. As soon as the pussy smurfs get their hands on it it's nothing but LED flowers and pony rides. Tell me, were any of the smurfs ever killed by an animal on Pandora? No? Well then there you go.[/quote] I think the question you meant to ask was "Were any of the Smurfs ever killed by an animal [I]during the movie[/I]?", in which the answer is no in THAT case, but considering the planet's full of super predators it stands to reason that quite a few may have fallen prey. [quote]But that's bad! Because he keeps trying to push this "humans are monsters save the trees" message that falls totally flat and looks really stupid. And you can make an alien world that has complex characters, that's dumb.[/quote] It's not about "SAVE TEH TREEZ!", it's a reflection on "We've treated ourselves this bad and worse, so what's to stop us from doing it again?" He who does not learn from history... [quote]Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.[/quote] Make it so, No. 1! [quote]But that's dumb. Pandora has predators, Pandora has disease, Pandora has danger and depth and all that stuff. At least it's supposed to. You can't create a stable society in a hostile environment with the mind set is "do as little as possible". You'd get wiped out by a more desperate and violent tribe.[/quote] You're doing it again. You're applying Terran philosophy to a completely alien culture with a vast and relatively unknown history. STOP IT. Maybe it's not in the Na'vi's nature to be selfish? We're naturally selfish and paranoid because we never know if our less-fortunate neighbors will try to run off with everything that isn't nailed down or on fire, where-as the Na'vi probably realize that yes, this IS a hostile and savage world, and if they don't focus on more important things than trying to better their peers then they might perish. [quote]Of course you would if the Na'vi weren't one dimensional noble savages with no emotions whatsoever besides sadness at the actions of the humans.[/quote] You must be terrible at reading emotions. I saw a full range, from happiness, sorrow, grief, rage, jealousy, annoyance, and more. [quote]If I'm a pacifist, and you're a war mongering barbarian, and I refuse to make fire and burn down your abode, you're going to burn down mine, or you're going to drive away all of my game, or you're going to do something underhanded and cruel that I refuse to do because I'm a hippy pacifist robot, and then you'll kill me, get my land, my supplies, and my women. That's how competition works.[/QUOTE] Assuming there's any such thing as a war-monger on Pandora, that is. At least if there was, there hasn't been for generations because, as I mentioned earlier, they may have more important things to worry about than how quickly they can exterminate their neighbors.

Shows how awful the characterization was in this film when, 3 or 4 days later, I can't remember the name of a single main character. I still love the world, before you fanboys start raging. [editline]09:43AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Majache;19169138]hahahahahahahahaha oh god so you're telling me that because i didn't like avatar, i'm going to die alone and unloved. [/QUOTE] Not alone. I'll be there Majache. It'll be quick. No more trolling. No more accusations of being stupid because you want to analyze a movie. Married in an instant. :suicide: :smithicide:

[QUOTE=jcallan;19170414]Shows how awful the characterization was in this film when, 3 or 4 days later, I can't remember the name of a single main character. [/QUOTE] I have trouble remembering names period, much less names I hear in a span of 3 hours and that's it. :v:

I can remember crazy Vikkus' name from D9 pretty easily, mostly due to his crazy accent ([sp]FOOOK SAKE[/sp]) Cameron should really stop writing generic marine characters. Also main character should have been female, Cameron is good at writing females. Did anyone else notice Sam Worthington's (Jake, I think?) accent kept switching to Australian near the end?

[QUOTE=jcallan;19170491]I can remember crazy Vikkus' name from D9 pretty easily, mostly due to his crazy accent ([sp]FOOOK SAKE[/sp])[/QUOTE] Ah yes, Good ol' Wikus.

WHY WAS EVERYONE AMERICAN? Damn Cameron :argh:

This argument is just sad, I need to stop reading it. I haven't had this feeling since a friend of mine tried to argue about how Star Wars was a stupid movie because it was impossible to contain plasma in the shape of a blade or something like that. The whole point of having a completely alien environment is to avoid this stupid over-analysis. Not a single point you've brought up isn't easily explainable by some obscure attribute of the fictional world. Give it up, Majache. This isn't a scientific project to create a perfect alien ecosystem simulation. It's a movie. A very entertaining movie at that. Hmm, I guess I haven't learned my lesson to stay out of this shit yet.

He's not arguing about the science of the film, he's arguing about the plot. NO ONE, including myself, is implying the CGI was anything short of mindblowing. The worlds and atmosphere of the film were great. The plot was just generic. Also goddamn, Cameron, hire a better editor. 3 hrs?

I swear I just read paragraphs of complaints about the bio-luminescence and culture of the planet. Oh well, I'm going to bed. I hope you all accomplish something.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;19170509]Ah yes, Good ol' Wikus.[/QUOTE] I hated Wikus. He was kind of a dick/selfish.