James Cameron's Avatar - General

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;19209288]Humans needed intelligence(as in spying) to plan their attacks. Why, if humans are smart enough to travel in space? Because when you are dealing with an alien intelligence(as in life form), you don't know anything. You don't how they think, what they will do, how far they'll go, what they are capable of- these are things you must learn about before you can act effectively. The Pandora intelligence needed that same kind of information on humans, which it only got from Grace. That was the game changer, the thing that allowed it to go from "it doesn't take sides" to "she heard you". The way I saw it, he temporarily switched. He parked his other ride for a while, so he could use the hot rod. Once done, he lets the hot rod go and gets his old ride back.[/QUOTE] But that's stupid. If it really was intelligent, it would know what an attack looks like. And it obviously had inductive reasoning due to the fact that it realized that the humans were going to destroy Pandora at all. So it should be able to recognize the mass destruction of it's brain as an attack. Like, I said, HAL and Dave. All it takes is the knowledge that once an organism begins doing something it will continue to do it until prompted otherwise, something that Pandora should have realized after millions of years of observing animal life. Why would it assume Humans to be any different from any other animal? Kind of a parasitic relationship.

[QUOTE=Majache;19206643] Watch the fucking movie, how about that?[/quote] It's okay people, stand down red alert, I have just finished watching Blade Runner so apparantley I am now knowledgeable enough to inform you of my opinion. It was a pretty good movie, but not nearly as deep and awe-inspiring as you made it out to be. It didn't require alot of thought to get the point, which was that playing God is wrong. Does that make it any shittier of a movie? No, I thought it was pretty good with a good atmosphere and decent characters (though Ford fell a little flat in terms of development, the cliche'd "has to kill people but doesn't like to kill people but he does it anyway" thing), but over-all was probably "ahead of its time" simply because they were the first to turn "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" into a movie. [quote]That's not the point ya asshole. The point is he's unique. We're talking about creativity here, remember?[/quote] The internals of the ship I'll admit are unique (there's no denying that it looks like a ass-ton of rib-cages though), the externals not so much. [quote]Find me five people with as much vision.[/quote] First you wanted me to find one, now you want 5? Will that be a silver or platinum platter, sir? If you're seriously so fixated on Mr. Giger's work that you think he's the top banana in dark and twisted artwork, then more power to ya. [quote]That's because you're stupid.[/quote] Nothing about the externals of the space craft were particularly eye-catching at all, it looked pretty bland in my eye. [quote]So? There's a difference between matte painters and conceptual artists.[/quote] Yeah, Dylan Cole's a concept artist too. Just thought I'd let ya know. (don't believe me? Look it up) [quote]See, a conceptual artist has to make up a bunch of new things. Like, things that nobody else has made before. That's usually how design works.[/quote] The concept artist usually takes a pre-existing idea and tries to bring it to life on paper. If they simply made things that noone else has made/seen before, then they're usually just called "artists". [quote]And yeah, that guy is also an awesome designer. But I don't see how that makes Giger less creative.[/quote] You asked me to find someone as creative as he, not someone who belittles him. [quote]No, I'm saying that because you don't know jack shit about design, or even sci-fi in general.[/quote] There is no single genre-defining movie, so claiming that I don't know squat because I haven't seen one film out of thousands is a tad pretentious. [quote]Do the words "in the movie" mean anything to you at all?[/quote] ...Wait, you didn't watch it at all, did you? You just stared at a screen for nearly 3 hours, didn't you? Why would you go to a movie if you're not going to watch it? Do you like handing out $8-16 on a whim? I'm so sorry Avatar didn't spoon-feed you everything you need to know in dialogue, but you might have had a basic grasp of what was going on if you actually [B]PAID. ATTENTION. TO. THE. MOVIE.[/B] [quote]Stories are supposed to be self contained. You can't put some shit on screen that makes no sense just because you made an encyclopedia that explains it all in great detail.[/quote] The encyclopedia provides a deeper back-story, but everything you need to know about the movie is RIGHT THERE in the movie if you pay attention. Again, sorry Cameron didn't hold your hand throughout the movie. [quote]I wouldn't even care if all of that came together into a good, enthralling story. But it doesn't.[/quote] So would you care if you did? The hell are you trying to say here? [quote]But that's also stupid. If the point of the unobtainium on the desk was to explain that it floats, then why have the dongle underneath it. That just makes me think the dongle is some future gadget that makes things float. That's what I'm talking about with poor design.[/quote] I'm going to say this one more time in the hopes that you notice it, in nice red letters this time: [highlight]PAY ATTENTION TO THE STUFF HAPPENING IN THE MOVIE.[/highlight] If you did that, you'd know that the rock is valuable. Why is it valuable? Oh, it floats in that neat gizmo, wonder why that is... Oh, look at that! An entire mountain range floating near a powerful magnetic vortex! So it's something about the rock, not the thing on his desk! It all makes SENSE now! And the best part is, if you ever paid attention (which at this rate I doubt) to your high-school science classes, you'd know that super-conductors float in magnetic fields, but only when they're really cold, so you suddenly know THAT MUCH MORE about unobtainium! IMAGINE! [quote]hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha[/quote] Laugh it up, funny man, 'cause that's pretty much exactly what you're doing. Though maybe "superfluous" isn't the right word, I've had that word running in my head the last few days for some reason. What's the word I'm looking for... As screw it, you're just being nit-pickey and stubborn. There's things that you're arguing about TO THIS PRESENT TIME that have been explained to you over and over again, which if you had, you guessed it, PAID ATTENTION TO THE MOVIE you wouldn't have been so confused about in the first place. You said you like movies that make you think? Blade Runner basically told you everything there is to know, there IS no deeper thinking required other than "Hmm, wonder what the recreants are going to do now?" because EVERYTHING IS EXPLAINED TO YOU FROM THE BEGINNING. While I'm still on about Blade Runner, turns out I DID see at least the last half of it on satellite one night. Seeing it from the beginning helped it make more sense, but other than that there's probably a reason I forgot I saw it. [quote]As said before, the musician has hinted at it, and I have other sources that I can't name.[/quote] "I know because I read it somewhere that had it publicly available otherwise I wouldn't have been able to read it but I can't tell you where" basically translates into talking out your ass. Links or be quiet. [quote]That's weird, because when I saw it didn't contribute anything to the movie. And it drowned out the color which I know a lot of the people who worked on the movie complained about, which I know because I go to the places where these people talk and I ask them.[/quote] It's a limitation of the technology, but personally I prefer it being a bit darker to having it a mish-mash of red and green/blue. UP looked just fine to me, and the subtle but noticeable 3D was AMAZING. [quote]At least Matrix spawned the Animatrix. I have this feeling that all Avatar 2 and 3 will spawn is a lot of bullshit. [/QUOTE] Yeah, the Animatrix was awesome, especially the Second Renaissance. Hell, they should've just made a movie based on that and spared us from three movies worth of Reeves' wooden acting. [QUOTE=Majache;19206875] But wait, in his dreams he was flying over the Earth and it looked just fine.[/QUOTE] Amazing what imagery a combination of books, photographs and dreams will produce. [QUOTE=Majache;19207062]Hey, that reminds me. Did the Na'vi have any wars? I mean, why else would they be fractured into so many clans? So why does none of that ever come up? I mean, it's pretty obvious that the big tree people have the best home, so why wouldn't all the other clans be vying for it? Actually, that would make a lot of sense to have them sort of warring for control of the soul tree. Sort of like space smurf Jerusalem.[/quote] Again, it's been mentioned before, so hopefully you'll bother to read it here: The Na'vi used to be divided (and therefor warring against one another) until they were united by that ancestor of Netyri's. And the fact that they know what a warrior is and that they have them shows that they at least know something of war, so it's more likely than not that they've used their warriors in the past for, what else? War. Why did they stop? What convinced them to unite? Perhaps they realized that war lead them down the path to destruction, and they were able to put aside their differences for that. [quote]Yeah but they never attacked them when they were clusterfucking any of the other parts of the planet. I mean, having the animals make coordinated guerrilla strikes would have done wonders for stopping their advance.[/QUOTE] They probably have. Did you notice the AMP escorts they had for the massive dump-trucks? No, of course you didn't. That would require you to actually WATCH THE MOVIE. [QUOTE=Majache;19207524]No. Because the humans were still fucking up it's brain.[/QUOTE] For all the forest knew, the machines destroying it were un-stoppable. They were massive, armored, distributed over a fairly large range (presumably), and well-guarded, so what could it do? Once the military forces massed up into a single group, then the creatures could amass and take them out in one shot. It's also possible that when Jake linked up with it, he conveyed how they operated in a sense and therefore provided a list of weaknesses. [QUOTE=Majache;19209416]But that's stupid. If it really was intelligent, it would know what an attack looks like. And it obviously had inductive reasoning due to the fact that it realized that the humans were going to destroy Pandora at all. So it should be able to recognize the mass destruction of it's brain as an attack.[/quote] How would it know if it never had one on this scale before? [quote]Like, I said, HAL and Dave. All it takes is the knowledge that once an organism begins doing something it will continue to do it until prompted otherwise, something that Pandora should have realized after millions of years of observing animal life. Why would it assume Humans to be any different from any other animal?[/quote] Perhaps because it was smart enough to know that, at the time, it could do nothing about it. [quote]Kind of a parasitic relationship.[/QUOTE] Not quite parasitic, as the rider takes nothing from the creature. It is, as the Na'vi say, a bond, a unison of the will of two entities, a mutual understanding.

Anyone remember the second name of Turok (or Toruk?)? You know, the giant flying Reptile that was only the greatest heroes could ride them or something.

[QUOTE=Nelth;19210430]Anyone remember the second name of Turok (or Toruk?)? You know, the giant flying Reptile that was only the greatest heroes could ride them or something.[/QUOTE] You mean the human name for it? Great Leonopteryx.

You mean Toruk Makto?

No, I mean how the Na'vi called it. Turok/Toruk something. [editline]02:14PM[/editline] Yeah Skyward, thanks.

Ah, I see, you worded your question kinda weird. Toruk Makto is the name of the individual who can RIDE the creature.

I saw the movie yesterday, I love 3d cinema from now on. The Movie was pretty good too.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;19210531]Ah, I see, you worded your question kinda weird. Toruk Makto is the name of the individual who can RIDE the creature.[/QUOTE] Ohh now I see, didn't know that, thanks.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;19189580]When you start throwing in wizards 'n shit it becomes less and less believable. Now if you meant it had more believable CHARACTERS, then yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Walking talking tree men and a ring that turns you invisible as well as nuts kinda throws "believable" out the window.[/QUOTE] Again, you're not understanding what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying the Lord of the Rings is "believable" in that it could actually happen/have happened, but that it is an immersing world that you can get properly involved in. When the Ents march on Isengard in The Two Towers I thought "oh fucking shit this is epic and Saruman is going to get his ass handed to him - didn't see that coming". Nothing in Avatar made me think that. When it tried to be epic it just looked cliched and predictable. [QUOTE=Zero-Point;19192235]Lord of the Rings was also 3 movies long and didn't have to introduce much as the environment was basically Earth + elves, dragons, dwarves, etc. (basically a lot of pre-existing goofy fantastical stuff that Tolkien just added a [b]slight twist[/b] to), and with the entire first part of the trilogy to flesh out the characters, well... Can you imagine if Avatar actually took time to introduce their characters with more depth and detail? We'd be waiting for "Avatar: Planetfall".[/QUOTE] A slight twist? Are you shitting me? Tolkein [i]invented[/i] modern fantasy. Before Tolekin, fantasy was limited to children's fairytales and obscure and unread fiction. Elves were tiny little fairy things for Christ's sake. ---------------------------- I don't get why everyone is arguing over the God of the forest or whatever it's called on Pandora. The point is, it shouldn't have even been in the film as an unquestionable deity in the first place. Cameron fails again as a writer by making you [i]have[/i] to take the blue side because it is they who believe in the God who, at the end of the film, is proven to fully exist in all of its conceptual entirety. If the deity concept was in the film as purely that, a concept of the blue people, and with a possible scientific explanation for the things the blue people believe in and do (like religion today) then it would have been a much more interesting story that the viewer can make their own mind up about. Instead you get all this hippy bullshit force-fed to you for two and a half hours and if you try and disagree with it you can't because that isn't Cameron's opinion on the world so it's wrong.

[QUOTE=Majache;19209416]But that's stupid. If it really was intelligent, it would know what an attack looks like. And it obviously had inductive reasoning due to the fact that it realized that the humans were going to destroy Pandora at all. So it should be able to recognize the mass destruction of it's brain as an attack. Like, I said, HAL and Dave. All it takes is the knowledge that once an organism begins doing something it will continue to do it until prompted otherwise, something that Pandora should have realized after millions of years of observing animal life. Why would it assume Humans to be any different from any other animal? Kind of a parasitic relationship.[/QUOTE] You are forgetting one thing- humans made HAL. HAL has built-in knowledge of how humans think because he was made in their image, so to speak. He has always interacted with humans, been programmed to know everything he needs to know to understand humans. The creatures on Pandora have only begun to have interactions with humans, very limited and basic interactions. And the main creature on Pandora didn't have any interactions with humans at all...until Grace.

Did anyone else think that pilot chick was fucking hot? [url]http://img695.imageshack.us/i/trudychacon.jpg/[/url]

[QUOTE=CTN1995;19212413]Did anyone else think that pilot chick was fucking hot?[/QUOTE] Kinda. She would have been more attractive with less shitty one-liners.

Saw this yesterday in 3D, best movie I have ever seen.

Saw this today at an IMAX in Bradford (had to travel a while to get there). Was worth the travel, sorta sucked seeing Pandora for 3 hours then seeing Bradford. Good movie.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;19211780] A slight twist? Are you shitting me? Tolkein [i]invented[/i] modern fantasy. Before Tolekin, fantasy was limited to children's fairytales and obscure and unread fiction. Elves were tiny little fairy things for Christ's sake. [/QUOTE] :iceburn:

its was really fucking cool in 3d the plot was stripped completely from dances with wolves and matrix but god damn it was incredible visually

[QUOTE=Big Blue;19213733]its was really fucking cool in 3d the plot was stripped completely from dances with wolves and matrix but god damn it was incredible visually[/QUOTE] that's been the general consensus of the last 41 pages of this thread

sorry i dont waste my time reading 41 pages in a forum, did my post offend you

So, have we all forgotten about this movie by now?

Saw it again today(Again in 3D) and it just amazed me again. I fucking love that movie and wanna watch it again and again.

The DVD/Bluray better have a shitload of extra material. That's why I liked the LOTR DVD's so much, at least the extended edition, because there were hours of behind the scenes and stuff like that.

Yes, that would be cool, but tbs, I would have no Problem if not.

I can't see the behind the scenes being that great, it'd just be this [img]http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/avatar-james-cameron-green-screen.jpg[/img] for 14 years or so.

[QUOTE=jcallan;19215812]I can't see the behind the scenes being that great, it'd just be this [img]http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/avatar-james-cameron-green-screen.jpg[/img] for 14 years or so.[/QUOTE] 4 years that is. He started working on the script 14 years ago.

Flying mountains are badass.

[QUOTE=Carne;19215823]4 years that is. He started working on the script 14 years ago.[/QUOTE] Still, can't see that being a great behind the scenes: [B][I]"Well, here I am in front of the greenscreen.Again."[/I][/B]

It doesnt matter, as long as the movie is there, the BTS can be as bad as shit.

[QUOTE=jcallan;19215933]Still, can't see that being a great behind the scenes: [B][I]"Well, here I am in front of the greenscreen.Again."[/I][/B][/QUOTE] Motion capture, models, concept art, visual effects etc...that's what I would like to see.

THe coolest thing is that they are "wearing" their Na'vi Characters, they are acting and doing the mimic and then the Na'vi Character just gets overlayed. That gives the movie a awesomnes multiplicator.