• PewDiePie says "What a fucking nigger" after PUBG teammate dies
    632 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52669707][url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Reclaimed_words[/url] Yeah cause history is static right?[/QUOTE] Ah, but here's the rub: Any of these words when used in a discriminatory fashion would still be slurs. "Reclaiming" a word does not mean that it still cannot be used by those who mean to discriminate. As a part of the LGBT community, we may say "queer" in a positive, indiscriminate fashion. But if some homophobe or anyone else says "queer" in a negative fashion or as an insult, I'd still be hurt and taken aback. Just like how the black community has reclaimed and modified "nigger", but are still rightfully offended by uses like Pewdiepie's.
I just can't see trying to suppress new usage of nigger or nigga as anything but counterproductive. The word is finally starting to lose its baggage and is being embraced for non racist usage, and then you have people who want to drag it back kicking and screaming into its original meaning, ironically separating the word from certain races in the name of stopping racism. It's only going to provide real racists with stronger ammo if it's left with the original meaning.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52669726]Ah, but here's the rub: Any of these words when used in a discriminatory fashion would still be slurs. "Reclaiming" a word does not mean that it still cannot be used by those who mean to discriminate. As a part of the LGBT community, we may say "queer" in a positive, indiscriminate fashion. But if some homophobe or anyone else says "queer" in a negative fashion, I'd still be hurt and taken aback. Just like how the black community has reclaimed and modified "nigger", but are still rightfully offended by uses like Pewdiepies.[/QUOTE] This, so much. I was at an LGBT concert last year, and someone was having difficulty with the sound equipment, and someone said "could someone help this faggot work it out?" [I]Some[/I] people might not have appreciated it, but in general, it was okay. Because it was a group of queer people among themselves. If a straight person said that, I'd really rather they didn't, since they don't understand the context and feeling of being "a faggot." Similar for "nigga." You have some black people who prefer not to use that word. They don't want other black people calling them that. And you have other black people who comfortably call each other that. But if you have a white person, who's never lived the life of a black person and never understand the context of being a "nigger," who wants to say it, it's just not appropriate.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52669731]I just can't see trying to suppress new usage of nigger or nigga as anything but counterproductive. The word is finally starting to lose its baggage and is being embraced for non racist usage, and then you have people who want to drag it back kicking and screaming into its original meaning, ironically separating the word from certain races in the name of stopping racism. It's only going to provide real racists with stronger ammo if it's left with the original meaning.[/QUOTE] Your mistake is in assuming that it's actually losing any of its baggage and is being used indiscriminately. Slurs cannot be indiscriminate, that's the entire point of a slur.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52669731]I just can't see trying to suppress new usage of nigger or nigga as anything but counterproductive. The word is finally starting to lose its baggage and is being embraced for non racist usage, and then you have people who want to drag it back kicking and screaming into its original meaning, ironically separating the word from certain races in the name of stopping racism. It's only going to provide real racists with stronger ammo if it's left with the original meaning.[/QUOTE] [I]The word lost all the baggage it ever will, already.[/I] Some black people use it among themselves, and that's as far as it'll ever go. Stop treating it like some noble crusade of "if we keep saying it casually, it'll lose all racist meaning, and become just as neutral as 'asshole,'" because that's not what's happening. People just want to say the word and not have to consider the context of it.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52669718]And like I said earlier, it's difficult for me to believe that you actually have a real interest in avoiding the harmful use of these words when the use of them is inherently harmful in the first place. Slurs are discriminatory by nature. There is literally no way to get around that.[/QUOTE] This is just my opinion but it's because I personally believe words are not just limited to definition. They are also defined by how they sound and how they look. In most cases where people casually use slurs and swears as generalized insults, they are not used for their definition, but for how they look and sound. The letters that make up "fuck" and how it sounds makes it satisfying to say, which also ties into why the word "cuck" has grown so much more popular over the last couple years as people have discovered it. The word's meaning is not subject-related, but the reason why people use it is related. It is a satisfying word to use as an insult, despite 99% of the time the definition does not match up with the usage.
You have to realize that all of those homosexual slurs lost meaning out of a social awakening of homosexuals they didn't lose meaning because people stopped taking them seriously they lost meaning because the society that used that word itself changed massively over the years Lets not forget that being a 'butch lesbo faggot' is only a negative trait to homophobes outside of the LGBT community. it doesn't matter within the community because the community doesn't care about those traits.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52669731]The word is finally starting to lose its baggage and is being embraced for non racist usage[/QUOTE] Uh, No? [QUOTE=DinoJesus;52669731]It's only going to provide real racists with stronger ammo if it's left with the original meaning[/QUOTE] "Let's fight racism by saying racist slurs" Is not a good logic nor a good look.
Btw, he's done several YLYL videos using 4chan ylyl threads. I think he might browse 4chan, and over there stuff like "what a nigger" certainly is used a lot and doesnt carry much weight.
[QUOTE=Str4fe;52669752]Btw, he's done several YLYL videos using 4chan ylyl threads. I think he might browse 4chan, and over there stuff like "what a nigger" certainly is used a lot and doesnt carry much weight.[/QUOTE] did he use 4chan YLYL threads? because that kind of shit is so widespread on youtube that I grew sick of seeing KEKISTAN FUNNIEST 4CHAN YLYL COMPILATION #40 on my recommended vids tab
[QUOTE=Keychain;52669748]This is just my opinion but it's because I personally believe words are not just limited to definition. They are also defined by how they sound and how they look. In most cases where people casually use slurs and swears as generalized insults, they are not used for their definition, but for how they look and sound. The letters that make up "fuck" and how it sounds makes it satisfying to say, which also ties into why the word "cuck" has grown so much more popular over the last couple years as people have discovered it. The word's meaning is not subject-related, but the reason why people use it is related. It is a satisfying word to use as an insult, despite 99% of the time the definition does not match up with the usage.[/QUOTE] You're not incorrect, the aesthetics and "feeling" of words is a big part of why people use certain words over others when meanings are the same. But at the same time, this ignores the other largest formative factor of language, and that's society, history, and context. It's naive and reductionist to assume that all words are just lines on a page and vocal utterances that we use to communicate. They're powerful vehicles for thoughts and messages, and should always be used responsibly. Like others have said, words don't exist in a vacuum. They never have, nor will they ever.
[QUOTE=Str4fe;52669752]Btw, he's done several YLYL videos using 4chan ylyl threads. I think he might browse 4chan, and over there stuff like "what a nigger" certainly is used a lot and doesnt carry much weight.[/QUOTE] If that's true, that doesnt make him look better, far from it lol
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52669625]Damn, Total Biscuit being a total bitch about being told he's wrong by someone more qualified than him. Then gonna just say "Yeah, he's just saying that because of a case he's working on." and try to disregard his legitimate points, and misrepresent the full nature of his case. Dishonest on so many levels.[/QUOTE] I can get behind TB on so many points, especially on his more industry focused opinions, but holy fuck if that man is not able to handle criticism or being told something that doesn't conform to his view. He gets especially nasty on social media, and i think he should remove himself from it, seeing as he gets only more toxic on the platforms he has.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52669726]As a part of the LGBT community, we may say "queer" in a positive, indiscriminate fashion. But if some homophobe or anyone else says "queer" in a negative fashion or as an insult, I'd still be hurt and taken aback. Just like how the black community has reclaimed and modified "nigger", but are still rightfully offended by uses like Pewdiepie's.[/QUOTE] I think it's more fitting to use another example of "nigger", like Keemstar. I am nowhere offended when PDP mentioned it because he's insulting a player over an online game out of frustration. That shit happens all the time, almost every single heated match in a video games involves insults that go into the line of "faggot" almost naturally. I wouldn't care less if I got called one, in a [B]video game.[/B] PDP mainly fucked up because he said it on stream, and he's undeniably a very popular man nonetheless, where people will tax you for any improper etiquette. Keemstar on the other hand, it's pretty obvious he meant loud and clear to say nigger, as much as asking the chat to type it, which y'know, constitutes more of harassing than accidentally blurting out in a video game "what a fucking nigger" and seconds later apologizing because you regretted it almost instantly
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;52669795]I think it's more fitting to use another example of "nigger", like Keemstar. I am nowhere offended when PDP mentioned it because he's insulting a player over an online game out of frustration. That shit happens all the time, almost every single heated match in a video games involves insults that go into the line of "faggot" almost naturally. I wouldn't care less if I got called one, in a [B]video game.[/B] PDP mainly fucked up because he said it on stream, and he's undeniably a very popular man nonetheless, where people will tax you for any improper etiquette. Keemstar on the other hand, it's pretty obvious he meant loud and clear to say nigger, as much as asking the chat to type it, which y'know, constitutes more of harassing than accidentally blurting out in a video game "what a fucking nigger" and seconds later apologizing because you regretted it almost instantly[/QUOTE] Excusing these sorts of things "because it happened in a video game" is the reason such negative perceptions of the medium's community exist. It's entirely possible to play games and not say slurs, and we shouldn't spare scrutiny from these cases just because they're online. There are plenty of words that people could use in the heat and frustration of a contested cs:go or PUBG match, but ultimately, people resort to slurs because of their discriminatory nature and history. That's worth recognizing and isn't something that we should accept as the status quo. I understand that Pewdiepie, perhaps, might not have had the worst of intentions when saying the word. Perhaps it actually did just "slip out". But what does that say about the climate and conditions that he was shaped in to where he resorts to saying "nigger" almost instinctually? To where it's a reflex? Pewdiepie, if he really regrets what he said, I feel is obligated to recognize this and apologize and condemn the use of these words in such settings. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a "words are just words" response, though.
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;52669795]Keemstar on the other hand, it's pretty obvious he meant loud and clear to say nigger, as much as asking the chat to type it, which y'know, constitutes more of harassing than accidentally blurting out in a video game "what a fucking nigger" and seconds later apologizing because you regretted it almost instantly[/QUOTE] Im pretty sure nobody here thinks pewdiepie is actually racist, just an edgy idiot at time. The whole obssessive defense of using the n word or fags, in any context, like it doesnt mean anything or doesnt have any history is the problem. Obviously using it as an actual slur is way worst thay saying during a game even if thats pretty toxic, ignoring the context [I]is[/I] the problem.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52669432]Someone out there is going protest Sean by streaming firewatch and saying the N word over and over I just know it[/QUOTE] It's gonna be you isn't it
[QUOTE=hippowombat;52669858]It's gonna be you isn't it[/QUOTE] its going to be [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtucUd9FauU"]Terry A. Davis[/URL]
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52669822]Excusing these sorts of things "because it happened in a video game" is the reason such negative perceptions of the medium's community exist. It's entirely possible to play games and not say slurs, and we shouldn't spare scrutiny from these cases just because they're online. There are plenty of words that people could use in the heat and frustration of a contested cs:go or PUBG match, but ultimately, people resort to slurs because of their discriminatory nature and history. That's worth recognizing and isn't something that we should accept as the status quo. I understand that Pewdiepie, perhaps, might not have had the worst of intentions when saying the word. Perhaps it actually did just "slip out". But what does that say about the climate and conditions that he was shaped in to where he resorts to saying "nigger" almost instinctually? To where it's a reflex? Pewdiepie, if he really regrets what he said, I feel is obligated to recognize this and apologize and condemn the use of these words in such settings. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a "words are just words" response, though.[/QUOTE] It's entirely possible for others to play games and not say slurs, but it's useless trying to avoid or care about this, because nothing will change this. Unfortunately you can't change what others blurt out as slurs in video game or really anything, this doesn't only affect video games, it affects any area involving a "game" in general. I believe that worrying or stressing about what other people say and consider as a status quo in a video game to be a huge waste of time and an unachievable goal. And since Pewdiepie is a pretty famous guy he would be digging himself a grave already, that's his punishment already, people are already recognizing this, and the negative perceptions (mainly from media) from video games (and people who play them) has always been an existing case, except it just changed its tracks throughout its course in history.
[QUOTE=Loth;52669778]If that's true, that doesnt make him look better, far from it lol[/QUOTE] Take it as you wish, just thought it would be valuable to the discussion.
I don't see why the emotions of a certain group matters in this situation. There's plenty of people member of X race that gets offended by X slur, but there's also some that don't give a fuck and allows the usage of it among their non-X peers. Feels like a moot point to bring up the feelings of the offended while ignoring the very same people who hold a different stance on the matter.
people are seriously trying to excuse this is "heat of the moment" when he was playing pubg, the game where nothing happens, in a moment where not much was happening jesus christ stop making excuses for this fucking child. you don't scream the N-word like that unless there's some pre-existing racism in there. it's just obvious
[QUOTE=NostalgicBird;52668500][URL="https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/906996390081024001"]-sigh-[/URL][/QUOTE] However wrong she normally is, I do think she has a point here. I already retweeted another tweet amounting to this by someone else, though that was a direct response to someone (not PewDiePie) defending him this way. Personally, I don't think the outrage is proportional, but I think PewDiePie is probably overusing it otherwise if he accidentally drops the word in a context like this. I don't have a problem with the devs not wanting him to be associated with their product either, but they [B]really[/B] screwed up by first giving a blanket license and then trying to revoke it. For comparison: We software developers use technically similar licenses to grant redistribution permissions for Free and/or open source software all the time. They tend to be more elaborate to cover edge cases, but even [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WTFPL&oldid=785951531"]the WTFPL[/URL] works (outside of Europe, at least).
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;52670109]people are seriously trying to excuse this is "heat of the moment" when he was playing pubg, the game where nothing happens, in a moment where not much was happening jesus christ stop making excuses for this fucking child. you don't scream the N-word like that unless there's some pre-existing racism in there. it's just obvious[/QUOTE] did you even take the time to watch the very short clip? he didn't scream it, and he clearly said it by accident. probably said it absentmindedly because he's said it a lot in jokes, but he promptly realised it wasn't what he meant to say. you ever accidentally call a teacher mom or dad before? same thing. it doesn't mean anything, your brain's just stupid sometimes.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;52670125]However wrong she normally is, I do think she has a point here. I already retweeted another tweet amounting to this by someone else, though that was a direct response to someone (not PewDiePie) defending him this way. Personally, I don't think the outrage is proportional, but I think PewDiePie is probably overusing it otherwise if he accidentally drops the word in a context like this. I don't have a problem with the devs not wanting him to be associated with their product either, but they [B]really[/B] screwed up by first giving a blanket license and then trying to revoke it. For comparison: We software developers use technically similar licenses to grant redistribution permissions for Free and/or open source software all the time. They tend to be more elaborate to cover edge cases, but even [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WTFPL&oldid=785951531"]the WTFPL[/URL] works (outside of Europe, at least).[/QUOTE]Not really, just hearing other people use it, it'll become part of your vocabulary. I know several people who don't ever use it themselves but have slipped it out in a heat of the moment simply because its a thing that exists and they know about it. It literally goes no further than that. Its something a shitload of people do. It doesn't mean he's walking around going, "Nigger nigger nigger nigger, nigger niggers, niggery niggers." In fact, if you've ever played basically any multiplayer game ever you've likely been exposed to it at least once if not many, many times by many different people. Doesn't mean you're going to go around saying it all the time. It means that in the right conditions, such as a multiplayer game during a moment of frustration, you'll fall back to something related to that, a thing other people say or do in multiplayer games during a moment of frustration. Just by being around it when others do it you're being trained to do it too. Hell, I guarantee there are people in this thread, disparaging him for it, who have let it slip without even realizing it themselves. People do it all the time, not specifically with the word "nigger", but with any thing really.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;52670109]people are seriously trying to excuse this is "heat of the moment" when he was playing pubg, [B]the game where nothing happens[/B], in a moment where not much was happening jesus christ stop making excuses for this fucking child. you don't scream the N-word like that unless there's some pre-existing racism in there. it's just obvious[/QUOTE] I mean, if you're playing like a fucking pussy and hiding inside houses, yeah. My PUBG games aren't like that at all. Also, he was clearly fighting in the video, did you even watch it?
This person can't be serious. Click on tweet to see the full context. [MEDIA]https://twitter.com/ThePlagueTND/status/907048692418535424[/MEDIA]
I, too, use racist slurs to casually express my anger. Its okay though because I'm angry and can't be held accountable for my uncontrollable, seething rage :^) [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Novangel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;52670250]I, too, use racist slurs to casually express my anger. Its okay though because I'm angry and can't be held accountable for my uncontrollable, seething rage :^)[/QUOTE] What is the excuse for the shitposting though?
Nigger is a word, that for hundreds of years, has been used to target black people around the world. It is a purely negative word outside of very specific contexts. No, it is not suddenly going to become "not racist" because some fucking gaming YouTubers start tossing it around a lot. To say as such is to ignore how language works. Language is not that thing where you say a word a lot and it loses meaning in your own head, like some people in this thread are insisting. And to be reductive enough to say that "no word has an inherent meaning really," isn't really a convincing argument, otherwise you wouldn't be able to read this. For many people it is still a symbol of oppression, because it is still used. Nigger is not outdated, it isn't cute and quaint to bust it out with your friends because you died in a game. It's still used by people who believe that black people shouldn't have the same rights as everybody else, who celebrate and share articles when black people are killed by police. To people it is still as raw, and as hurtful as it always has been. When I die in a game the first thing I think isn't "I wish I had a racial slur to express my anger." There are a lot of other words I could use. And I'm not hopping on the PDP is a racist thing, but his usage of it here at the very least shows a lack of respect to how big a deal nigger still is to a lot of people. Because to them it's an encapsulation of hundreds of years of discrimination, slavery, and displacement. A word designed specifically to deride and target them. And it hasn't suddenly lost it's meaning in the past few years as far as I'm aware.
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