PewDiePie says "What a fucking nigger" after PUBG teammate dies
632 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;52680714]Right.
Except people aren't too good on interpreting those mouth sounds, so we end up with people assuming way too much based on way too little.
Saying "Nigger" isn't enough to label someone as a "Racist". You can't get someone's entire beliefs on humanity based on barely even 2 seconds of mouth sounds they made with no racist intent.
It takes a [i]little[/i] more than that, I believe.[/QUOTE]
My point was that if you think that word is alright to use, you are either grossly ignorant of the historical context, you don't care about the context, or you actually support the institutions responsible for the history of the word and its continued impact. Either way, I still think that means your racist, it doesn't mean that you're an awful person or irredeemable, it just means that you need to examine yourself, your beliefs, and your actions and how these affect other people, and work on trying to avoid having such an impact on people.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52683798]They're literal drama whore channels, they'll say anything and weasel their way into any discussion for extra ad revenue.
It's the same reason Keemstar used to shoehorn Pewdiepie's name or face in like every single one of his uploads, be it as a mention, a tag in the video, the title or just a misleading thumbnail.[/QUOTE]
How about Ice Cube
[video]https://youtu.be/gnwiYdFaRfk[/video]
By the way, here are a few examples of black people who are also mad about PewDiePie's comments, hopefully their opinion isn't discounted for arbitrary reasons:
[media]https://twitter.com/the1janitor/status/907653734116872193[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/907335750492016642[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/itskindred/status/907289866614042625[/media]
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/Blackfellas/comments/6zqmb0/this_pewdiepie_fiasco_has_made_me_realize_how/"]https://www.reddit.com/r/Blackfellas/comments/6zqmb0/this_pewdiepie_fiasco_has_made_me_realize_how/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Carlito;52683979]My point was that if you think that word is alright to use, you are either grossly ignorant of the historical context, you don't care about the context, or you actually support the institutions responsible for the history of the word and its continued impact. Either way, I still think that means your racist, it doesn't mean that you're an awful person or irredeemable, it just means that you need to examine yourself, your beliefs, and your actions and how these affect other people, and work on trying to avoid having such an impact on people.[/QUOTE]
PDP cared about the historical context and impact of the word yet everyone jumped first and asked questions later.
[QUOTE=Carlito;52683979]I still think that means your racist, it doesn't mean that you're an awful person or irredeemable[/QUOTE]
Most people don't think this way, though, as evident by this whole debacle, so I reserve the word "Racist" for people who actually prove they believe there are races that are better or worse than others.
Because there are people who immediately jump to the conclusion that anyone who's called a racist is exactly the same as "All those other racists I hear about on the TV".
I'm not saying it's ok to say "Nigger" this casually. I'm saying it's not ok to ignore context and blow what someone said out of proportion, to this degree.
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;52684115]''black guys reaction to pewdiepie saying N**GER (n-word) LIVE! White supremacist?'' coupled with that thumbnail sure seems genuine and not at all like shitty clickbait meant to cash in on current drama[/QUOTE]
Alright, so that's one or two drops of water in a bucket of responses that you're comfortable ignoring.
[media]https://twitter.com/DanishaCarter4/status/907388155589885953[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/scorpiusjones/status/907020124737196032[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/Ignorant_Banter/status/907314001230663683[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/laaauuurreennn/status/907485740300472320[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/g2karig2/status/907117470879711232[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/blackghettogal/status/907004711005556736[/media]
this is from a search of just the #pewdiepie hashtag on twitter. do you want to qualify these accounts as well?
the original point was that, "it's never the actual group that the slur refers to that get offended, it's always a bunch of middle class white people getting offended on their behalf"
so, here are a bunch of people in the actual group that the slur refers to that are offended.
Like come on, do i really have to do this? This is a bad point to be defending, you're agreeing with what's basically a statistical impossibility and trying to defend against simple, easy-to-find counter-evidence by disqualifying individual cases for new reasons, shifting the goalposts from "the actual group that the slur refers to," to, "the actual group that the slur refers to but only those who post quality content."
it's really not hard to find another point to argue here. Please don't give that train steam, it's spreading the belief that there's no such thing as offended black folks, which is used to justify what can be hateful speech.
If you want to argue the standalone point that middle class white people shouldn't get offended on behalf of people of color, i'm willing to hear it and i could probably agree with it too.
But don't presume that this is a non-issue to black people, because it is, to so many.
who is or isn't offended has little bearing on anything
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52683178]I know politics in america and on the internet is garbo right now but I implore you not to be a centrist. Centrism assumes that there's some weird bland middle point between two opinions that must be more reasonable than either ends. Like if I proposed that we kill 10 kittens and you said to kill no kittens, is the centrist option to kill 5 kittens? Just reject that false dichotomy, be nonpartisan. Go for whatever you think is morally or ethically correct, I don't care. I might argue with you if I disagree, but I would hate for everyone to think exactly like me.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe people still actually believe this. You implore someone to not be a centrist, pull the biggest strawman related to it, then claim that you don't actually care. Imagine being this fucking lazy.
[QUOTE=Boaraes;52685257]I can't believe people still actually believe this. You implore someone to not be a centrist, pull the biggest strawman related to it, then claim that you don't actually care. Imagine being this fucking lazy.[/QUOTE]
Almost as lazy as someone who doesn't bring up a single point on his own!
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting - You stepped up from shitposting to the next level, I think its time you skip on this thread because its not helping anyone" - Reagy))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52685298]Almost as lazy as someone who doesn't bring up a single point on his own![/QUOTE]
My point is your argument was misinformed and grounded in hypocrisy because of the reasons I stated before. You don't know what Centrism is, and you act like you care when you said you don't. Do I need to explain further or are you going to dig yourself into a deeper hole in a thread you've already been banned in?
The attack on centrists is an astonishing blend of hilarious, sad, and very worrying. Attacking people and treating them as idiots and an enemy for holding more moderate views or for trying to understand both sides of issues. If you forget that not everyone agrees with you and knows exactly what you do, you're going to have a real hard fucking time accomplishing your goals. And when you go beyond that to attacking them, you are actively harming your own progress.
[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;52684037]PDP cared about the historical context and impact of the word yet everyone jumped first and asked questions later.
Most people don't think this way, though, as evident by this whole debacle, so I reserve the word "Racist" for people who actually prove they believe there are races that are better or worse than others.
Because there are people who immediately jump to the conclusion that anyone who's called a racist is exactly the same as "All those other racists I hear about on the TV".
I'm not saying it's ok to say "Nigger" this casually. I'm saying it's not ok to ignore context and blow what someone said out of proportion, to this degree.[/QUOTE]
For one thing, clearly he fucking didn't care about the context because he thought it was something that is appropriate to say in a 'heated gaming moment.' For another thing, it doesn't really matter where you draw the line at being a racist, because all of the definitions of racist that I posted all contribute to and are also symptoms of a racist institution; it doesn't matter if you don't actually think races are inferior or superior to another, because you're still helping perpetuate systems that encourage and enforce racism.
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;52685236]who is or isn't offended has little bearing on anything[/QUOTE]
Funny how it first was 'lol real blacks aren't offended this is just the SJWs,' and now who is or isn't offended isn't supposed to matter now that it's been presented that a significant amount of people have been offended by his behaviour.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52685298]Almost as lazy as someone who doesn't bring up a single point on his own![/QUOTE]
I like guns and I like universal healthcare oh shit I'm a wishy washy centrist put me in white moderate jail.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52685628]I like guns and I like universal healthcare oh shit I'm a wishy washy centrist put me in white moderate jail.[/QUOTE]
being pro gun rights isn't inherently a right wing perspective, marx spoke on the importance of arming the working class
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52683987]How about Ice Cube
[video]https://youtu.be/gnwiYdFaRfk[/video][/QUOTE]
Unless Ice Cube is some sort of wizard, Nostradamus associate or time traveler, this video uploaded last June is not about Pewdiepie spouting a slur in a September stream.
The rest of the video is not even relevant to the situation Pewdiepie found himself in bar the fact they both refer to the same slut (in entirely different contexts).
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52685628]I like guns and I like universal healthcare oh shit I'm a wishy washy centrist put me in white moderate jail.[/QUOTE]
Centrism is weird in that it isn't really 'a bit of column A, a bit of column B,' often it involves compromises between the two, and also in general is very pro-business and not too keen on some personal freedoms. If you want examples, the modern Clinton-Obama democrat stances are a good example of centrism. In general as an ideology it doesn't like gun rights, which tend to be something either conservatives or left-to-far-leftists value strongly.
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
And I say this as a lefty who strongly believes in gun rights.
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52685708]Unless Ice Cube is some sort of wizard, Nostradamus associate or time traveler, this video uploaded last June is not about Pewdiepie spouting a slur in a September stream.
The rest of the video is not even relevant to the situation Pewdiepie found himself in bar the fact they both refer to the same slut (in entirely different contexts).[/QUOTE]
People are still using the same types of apologia in both contexts, though, and this video is a response to the attempts of others to excuse their behaviour, so it's still relevant.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52685708]Unless Ice Cube is some sort of wizard, Nostradamus associate or time traveler, this video uploaded last June is not about Pewdiepie spouting a slur in a September stream.
The rest of the video is not even relevant to the situation Pewdiepie found himself in bar the fact they both refer to the same slut (in entirely different contexts).[/QUOTE]
Nah man but he's talking about white people using the word generally.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52683178]I know politics in america and on the internet is garbo right now but I implore you not to be a centrist. Centrism assumes that there's some weird bland middle point between two opinions that must be more reasonable than either ends. Like if I proposed that we kill 10 kittens and you said to kill no kittens, is the centrist option to kill 5 kittens? Just reject that false dichotomy, be nonpartisan. Go for whatever you think is morally or ethically correct, I don't care. I might argue with you if I disagree, but I would hate for everyone to think exactly like me.[/QUOTE]
That's not centrism at all and I'm sick of seeing this fucking strawman of it from both the left and right, acting like centrists are just mindless fence sitters who can't think for themselves.
An actual example of centrist policy would be something along the lines of, we shouldn't go full socialism and nationalise literally everything, but not all services work best when done by the free market, so some thing should be run by the governments, while others are best left to the market.
That's an actual centrist position, not that crappy strawman you presented.
Do you people not believe in forgiveness or anything anymore
Nothing will change if you stay outraged at a man who earnestly apologized
sometimes that's all there is to a discussion, someone slipped up, apologized, and you forgive them, that's all that should be done
is there a discussion to be had? sure, but not one attacking the character of a man who in the end showed maturity, and made a sincere apology.
when people say "i'm sorry" there's no need to go "THAT'S NOT ENOUGH" by doing that you just generate hostility that was never there in the first place because you felt the need to be angry needlessly
you probably need anger management if you feel that way
[QUOTE=Carlito;52685551]For one thing, clearly he fucking didn't care about the context because he thought it was something that is appropriate to say in a 'heated gaming moment.' [/QUOTE]
But he didn't think. That's what a "heated moment" is. You say the worst thing you can think of off the top of your head. And, well, he succeeded, didn't he?
[QUOTE=Carlito;52685551]It doesn't really matter where you draw the line at being a racist, because all of the definitions of racist that I posted all contribute to and are also symptoms of a racist institution; it doesn't matter if you don't actually think races are inferior or superior to another, because you're still helping perpetuate systems that encourage and enforce racism.[/QUOTE]
But that's literally not what being a racist is.
Where are you getting this definition from? You [b]know[/b] what people think when they hear the word "racist":
[quote="Dictionary"]A person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.[/quote]
I thought you were on the side of not throwing around words without understanding the impact they have on other people?
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;52685808]Do you people not believe in forgiveness or anything anymore
Nothing will change if you stay outraged at a man who earnestly apologized
sometimes that's all there is to a discussion, someone slipped up, apologized, and you forgive them, that's all that should be done
is there a discussion to be had? sure, but not one attacking the character of a man who in the end showed maturity, and made a sincere apology.
when people say "i'm sorry" there's no need to go "THAT'S NOT ENOUGH" by doing that you just generate hostility that was never there in the first place because you felt the need to be angry needlessly
you probably need anger management if you feel that way[/QUOTE]
Why does forgiveness need to come so soon? No one is entitled to forgiveness just because they shat out an apology. No one is really being outraged, they're just saying that it's no okay to use that word (unlike most of the people defending PewDiePie, who are trying to absolve him of having done anything wrong). It's a bit entitled to expect people who were offended to forgive someone after only a few days just because someone said sorry.
People aren't trusting PewDiePie because this is just part of a continual pattern of him not being very considerate of other people (read: minorities) feelings, which he had apologised for in the past. However, and here's the point of the whole thing, apologies don't mean shit if you don't [I]change your behaviour[/I]. People would probably forgive him in the future if he showed that he actually changed his behaviour for the better. However, because he has done this before and not changed, and the fact that there hasn't been enough time passed to see if he has changed, people aren't going to be so open this time around.
If you want PewDiePie to be forgiven, you should be hoping that this incident constitutes a turning point where he changes his attitude and behaviour for the better, not one where, having facing few consequences, he goes on like normal until another incident happens.
[QUOTE=Carlito;52685830]Why does forgiveness need to come so soon? No one is entitled to forgiveness just because they shat out an apology. No one is really being outraged, they're just saying that it's no okay to use that word (unlike most of the people defending PewDiePie, who are trying to absolve him of having done anything wrong). It's a bit entitled to expect people who were offended to forgive someone after only a few days just because someone said sorry.[/QUOTE]
Remind me again how many people died from this incident
[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;52685822]But he didn't think. That's what a "heated moment" is. You say the worst thing you can think of off the top of your head.[/QUOTE]
I've had plenty of heated moments where I've managed to not use an awful slur. Also it's a bit contradictory to say that he 'didn't think' and that he also said 'the worst thing he could think of.' At the end of the day, his actions affect others, so maybe he should be thinking about his choice of words, or attempt to avoid getting into these heated moments in the first place.
[quote]But that's literally not what being a racist is.
Where are you getting this definition from? You know what people think when they hear the word "racist":
I thought you were on the side of not throwing around words without understanding the impact they have on other people?[/quote]
Just because the dictionary makes that definition of the term racist, doesn't mean that there aren't other contexts in which the definition changes. The term has come to have a few different meanings, and taking the definition that suits your point and ignoring the others is a bit obtuse. The term, in academic contexts, often is used to denote something along the lines of what I've been using it, and neither one is more right or wrong than the other.
Even then, he is being racist in the sense you are implying. If he didn't treat other races differently, he wouldn't be using one particular slur against one particular group of people as a big naughty swear word. The fact that he thinks the n-word is both a bad word, and a word that you can call someone kind of implies something bad about how he views the usual recipients of the slur.
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=postal;52685840]Remind me again how many people died from this incident[/QUOTE]
What the fuck kind of post is this anyway? It's beside the point if someone was physically hurt from this incident. I could say the same about why people are so hung about him being called a racist (read: it doesn't hurt him in the slightest), because a lot of people seem very invested that he doesn't face consequences for his actions.
So many people upset over a word. It had no intent behind it other than venting frustration. There was no racism. It was no different than saying 'Fucking Cunt!'
It's a word, and a word that's used more frequently today without racism attached to it than with, at that. Settle the fuck down
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52685797]not that crappy strawman you presented.[/QUOTE]
Sargon Of Akkad & co. ruined the term centrism/centrist.
[QUOTE=01271;52685861]Sargon Of Akkad & co. ruined the term centrism/centrist.[/QUOTE]
In the same way that Anita Sarkeesian ruined all usage of the term feminist?
IE, only to simple minded people.
[QUOTE=Boaraes;52685353]My point is your argument was misinformed and grounded in hypocrisy because of the reasons I stated before. You don't know what Centrism is, and you act like you care when you said you don't. Do I need to explain further or are you going to dig yourself into a deeper hole in a thread you've already been banned in?[/QUOTE]
Yeah I was banned earlier but it was for not really backing my own arguments up. I'm trying to get better at that and not insult people. Thanks for the concern though.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52685379]The attack on centrists is an astonishing blend of hilarious, sad, and very worrying. [/QUOTE]
And not entirely without precedent. MLK said this 54 years ago.
[QUOTE]I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but [B]the white moderate[/B], who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistic-ally believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."[/QUOTE]
I don't even think that we're disagreeing all that much here, we're just squabbling over definitions. Like this:
[QUOTE]Centrism is just not faithfully adhering to either liberal or conservative ideology on various social and political issues and more evaluating each of the issues on a case by case basis. So some of their beliefs might be more liberal leaning and some might be more conservative leaning. [/QUOTE]
Seems like a definition of a nonpartisan person to me.
[QUOTE]Attacking people and treating them as idiots and an enemy for holding more moderate views or for trying to understand both sides of issues. If you forget that not everyone agrees with you and knows exactly what you do, you're going to have a real hard fucking time accomplishing your goals. And when you go beyond that to attacking them, you are actively harming your own progress.[/QUOTE]
I don't think I've called anyone an idiot, at least not in this sub-thread? Boaraes called me misinformed, hypocritical and lazy which I don't find conducive to productive debate.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52685628]I like guns and I like universal healthcare oh shit I'm a wishy washy centrist put me in white moderate jail.[/QUOTE]
These are two seperate opinions on two entirely different issues. How would you like it if I proposed that we ban some guns not all of them? Perhaps assault weapons, since they're not gonna be used for hunting and the only need for them is to harm other people, right? Does that sound reasonable to you?
[QUOTE=Carlito;52685842]Also it's a bit contradictory to say that he 'didn't think' and that he also said 'the worst thing he could think of.' [/QUOTE]
You don't literally stop all thought. Your brain goes "I don't like this guy, what's the worst thing I can say to him?", picks the worst thing, and in any normal circumstance your filter would catch this and fling it back from whence it came.
But in a heated moment, you want that information out as quickly as possible, so it flings out before you even know what you said.
[QUOTE=Carlito;52685842]At the end of the day, his actions affect others, so maybe he should [u]be thinking about his choice of words[/u], or [u]attempt to avoid getting into these heated moments in the first place.[/u][/QUOTE]
You don't have any idea what a "heated moment" is.
It comes out of nowhere, you say things you would never say otherwise, and you regret it after you realize what happened.
[QUOTE=Carlito;52685842]The fact that he thinks the n-word is both a bad word, and a word that you can call someone kind of implies something bad about how he views the usual recipients of the slur.
[/QUOTE]
You mean, the ability to recognize that this word, that pretty much the whole of society (including you) agrees is both "a bad word" and "something that people call people", is racist?
Having basic interpretation skills means he's racist?
I think being hounded by the media is enough of a punishment.
I'm not sure what else people want other than an apology or a change of behavior.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52685854]So many people upset over a word. It had no intent behind it other than venting frustration. There was no racism. It was no different than saying 'Fucking Cunt!'
It's a word, and a word that's used more frequently today without racism attached to it than with, at that. Settle the fuck down[/QUOTE]
I didn't realise I was coming across as not being calm? I really don't think that the n-word is something that is used more frequently without racism attached (let along that you can use it like that). You're being pretty dismissive of any of the points that I and others have raised in the thread. No one is trying to ruin PewDiePie's life, I'm just trying to make the point that saying the word isn't okay.
I have heard the word used between people who are friends vs someone actually using it to be racist at probably a 100:1 ratio
And the settle the fuck down was just over everyone's reaction, not you specifically
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