• Martial Arts
    611 replies, posted
Behemoth, I'm confused. You try to defend Wolfz statement which he says JKD is good for self defense. Jaeger says no since it suffers from McDojoism (which is true, its utter shit now for self-defense). Then, in your latest post, you say as long as Dojos make you happy its all good, depends on the individual. But how did it get towards that? Jaeger was just saying its bad for self-defense in response to Wolfz's post. Sure he pulls out the dick card, but he does explain why it is utter shit. Its true that every martial art does suffer from McDojos, but some WAY more than others, like JKD.
I have no grudge about anything Jaeger said about some martial art I may have or still practice. And yes, ALL martial arts suffer from MacDojoism. It's not that. One thing I just don't get is why does he has to be such a dick when newcomers to the arts actually come in here asking questions. He doesn't take other people's opinions and that is the problem. At some point every martial art is useful at some extent in certain related scenarios of self defence. They do not cover everything. Most things that can really give you a fighting edge, other than actually buying you time to escape or knocking out a medium threat, are taught to you way ahead in the program, and some others, as the case of military based stuff, they are not taught at all to civilians unless you take that course. I'm saying this based on the experience I've gathered from police officers and law enforcers in my family and friends. JKD may be a joke compared to what it was. However some of us may have gone through MacDojoism at some point in our career in martial arts. My point is this: If JKD is really what Wolfz is trying to explore even at a certain extent in self defence, I think he should pursue it to gain his own input and make his own research about it. Who cares if the only dojo that teaches him the art is kinda macdojoed. If he wants to learn it, he should go through that stage, gather experience and knowledge and come to his own conclusion about searching other places to learn the art. I used to do Aikido at a lame dojo (not a macdojo) and they taught us shit there. I did my research and moved to another one. In my case Aikido may not be ideal for self defence as a whole. However, it is useful to its extent and the scenarios it covers. Even if Wolfz gets to go through a lousy experience in JKD at first. If he wants to pursue it more seriously he will search for more credible schools with time. He shouldn't abandon that pursuit just because it's a highly macdojoed art in which is hard to find a good school.
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37497266]I have no grudge about anything Jaeger said about some martial art I may have or still practice. And yes, ALL martial arts suffer from MacDojoism. It's not that. One thing I just don't get is why does he has to be such a dick when newcomers to the arts actually come in here asking questions. He doesn't take other people's opinions and that is the problem. At some point every martial art is useful at some extent in certain related scenarios of self defence. They do not cover everything. Most things that can really give you a fighting edge, other than actually buying you time to escape or knocking out a medium threat, are taught to you way ahead in the program, and some others, as the case of military based stuff, they are not taught at all to civilians unless you take that course. I'm saying this based on the experience I've gathered from police officers and law enforcers in my family and friends. JKD may be a joke compared to what it was. However some of us may have gone through MacDojoism at some point in our career in martial arts. My point is this: If JKD is really what Wolfz is trying to explore even at a certain extent in self defence, I think he should pursue it to gain his own input and make his own research about it. Who cares if the only dojo that teaches him the art is kinda macdojoed. If he wants to learn it, he should go through that stage, gather experience and knowledge and come to his own conclusion about searching other places to learn the art. I used to do Aikido at a lame dojo (not a macdojo) and they taught us shit there. I did my research and moved to another one. In my case Aikido may not be ideal for self defence as a whole. However, it is useful to its extent and the scenarios it covers. Even if Wolfz gets to go through a lousy experience in JKD at first. If he wants to pursue it more seriously he will search for more credible schools with time. He shouldn't abandon that pursuit just because it's a highly macdojoed art in which is hard to find a good school.[/QUOTE] First off please read my post and stop saying that military have secret techniques. And second, hes saying that if you go to a shit mcdojo (which in the case of jkd), if you are unaware, you will get a false sense of confidence in self defense situations. And in some cases, can get you put in the hospital or killed. I've met and known people who do TKD or karate and they walk around like their shit doesn't stink. And that's because they actually think that their pay to get belt ranks mcdojo that's owned by a 45 year old fat white guy actually teaches them valuable self defense skills. mcdojos should force you to sign a waver that the skills you learn will not work like they do in the dojo. And third, there is no such thing as secret military techniques. [editline]1st September 2012[/editline] And fourth, there is no such thing as secret military techniques [editline]1st September 2012[/editline] and lastly there is no such thing as secret military techniques
Who's saying anything about secret techniques? The military methods and mindsets for martial arts are well known. The only thing that changes in most military based Martial Arts is the program and the approach they make on the threat. Civilians are taught to knock out or maybe do something that may buy some time to escape or call the police. As for military guys, they're trained for warfare, therefore they perfect neutralizing techniques more than civilians would. For example, in Krav maga, you'll never learn to fight with knives longer than 10cm, pistols or riffles, like the Mossad do because it is illegal for a civilian to do so. (At least in most western countries). So most of the acrobatic bullshit they lure you with in the youtube videos it's something most people will never do. And I'm just making this example for there are surelly many more. What's so difficult to understand?
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37504034] Civilians are taught to knock out or maybe do something that may buy some time to escape or call the police. [/QUOTE] "My martial art teaches me how to knock out and maybe do something to buy some time to escape or call police, thus only Military Personnel know lethal techniques." Fighters don't walk into the gym to be trained in NOT killing their opponent. They are taught how to kick to break ribs, they are taught how to punch to knock people out, they are taught how to choke and break bones. You're saying civilians don't know how to neutralize a threat? The only difference between a lethal choke, and a non-lethal choke is how long its held. [QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37504034] For example, in Krav maga, you'll never learn to fight with knives longer than 10cm, pistols or riffles, like the Mossad do because it is illegal for a civilian to do so. (At least in most western countries). [/QUOTE] You don't need a 10cm knife for self defense. If you want to learn how to use a pistol or rifle, join a gun club. If you want to play commando by taking body shields and learning lethal 10cm knife throwing techniques, join a mcdojo krav maga school. Oh wait, you need to be in the special forces to learn those military only moves.
Are we speaking the same language? It seems you're putting words in my mouth. And most things I don't mean. You're not getting to the point of what I'm saying. And we're both on the same terms about what you just said. I agree with you, you're just didn't understand what I'm trying to say to you. I'll try to explain myself better for you then, so 1st reply: YES! You are taught lethal techniques in most martial arts for civilians. You can even kill someone with a well placed kick in the head and you don't need to be a martial arts expert to do so. What I'm trying to say about the military is that they train with a different mindset than civilians when they learn those martial arts. There is NO TOP SECRET TECHNIQUES, for fuck's sake. The only thing is, in a real situation you might wanna just back down on your self defence, because if you get to land a powerful strike that can eventually break bones, or make permanent injury, or in worse case scenario, death, you'll have a tough time explaining it on court. Maybe what I'm saying is a little confusing for you because here in my country and in most of Europe, some martial arts that focus a little on self defence took out certain techniques that can get you in trouble with the law or put you in jeopardy. And yes, I do practice the choke, and I know it. Second reply: There are no gun clubs here and it's difficult to have access to guns here, unless you're into a hunting club or something. There's a strict gun control law here and it's rare to get mugged or attacked on the streets by somebody with a gun other than organized crime. Here for having a gun you have to have lots of papers for them and they have to stay home at all times. Even if you use them for self defence, it has to be in a certain way, else you go to jail. So about guns, I wasn't talking about shooting them, I was talking about using them effectively for melee. Most martial arts when taught in the military will teach you to do so. As for civilians there is no point in that because you're not going to walk the streets with a riffle on your back. Get it? About the knives, most martial arts have a 101 with melee weapons. If it's not for using them, it's for disarming them. and my example about knives is that here and in most countries in europe you're only allowed to carry a blade not longer than 10cm (about the size of your index finger), but once again, as you said, you don't need a knife to defend yourself and the law around here doesn't look to kindly on people using knives on the streets. (mainly because it's the weapon of choice for muggers). That was the point I'm trying to make and got a little confused. I'm speaking of Krav Maga because it's the Martial art focused on self defence I'm currently doing. And yes, most people inside our federation say exactly this, you just said: "If you want to play commando by taking body shields and learning lethal 10cm knife throwing techniques, join a mcdojo krav maga school. " Richard Douieb changed exactly that in Krav Maga when he founded the EFKM. He took out some unnecessary techniques, banned that kick ass commando marketing, picked up some techniques from other arts and perfected it to a more martial art like system other than that hardcore commando bullshit that most dojos try to make of krav maga. Basically he created a system that gives a lot of value in technique performance and patience other than getting right on to "pure destruction". And this is just an example. Once again, I'm not saying there are top secret techniques in the military that you'll not learn as a civilian. I'm just saying the training is different and aimed towards different goals. This is stating the obvious. You're not using guns or knives, unless in clear disadvantage because it's unnecessary. We both agree on that.
Direct quote from a friend, "Teach me to fight like Sleeping Dogs."
The only thing different about military martial arts is that they focus on getting the endpoint to be shooting the motherfucker. Also, the US Army's official martial art is the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Combatives (Blue belt curriculum basically) program. So stop thinking there is any sort of secret, different planet differences when it comes to "military martial arts".
NO ONE, what didn't you understand when I said this? [QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37509207] Once again, I'm not saying there are top secret techniques in the military that you'll not learn as a civilian. I'm just saying the training is different and aimed towards different goals. This is stating the obvious. [/QUOTE] Back to topic, I think I might have done something in my knee yesterday that will prevent me from starting my training this month. I have really long legs, so yesterday I was at the carnival/fair (I don't know the exact description of the event) and I went to the bumper carts. So basically, long story short, someone bumped into me and with the impact my knee cap hit the wheel. I'm worried because I may have done some kind of rupture. YEsterday night I couldn't walk and the pain only manifested itself after a few minutes walking. I could barely walk. I slept with ice on my knee to prevent any swelling and avoid the pain, put some of that gel you put for pain during sports and I slept it over. I woke up today feeling ok but as soon as I started walking for some minutes the pain is back. I'm worried guys. I had to quit Tennis because of issues with my knees and would hate to do so with martial arts.
I can't wait to start MMA soc at uni and realise how little I know from beach wrestling and drunken brawls, I'm really looking forward to seriously improving my Jiu jitsu and boxing game
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;37527853]I can't wait to start MMA soc at uni and realise how little I know from beach wrestling and drunken brawls, I'm really looking forward to seriously improving my Jiu jitsu and boxing game[/QUOTE] Beach wrestling will never be the same again! People will start wondering what type of magical powers you have as you constantly flip them over your head, over and over again with a butterfly sweep. They fall for it every time all the time!
I had my last MMA training this sunday. Didn't go so well even with my knee band. My coach advised me to stay away from training for a couple of weeks until its healed. At least the X-Ray showed I have nothing broken down there which is a relief. Just some swelling and probably a small rupture that'll heal with time. Hurts like a bitch though.
Me taking bits and pieces from other martial arts and making the rest up as I go along has never failed.
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37521635]NO ONE, what didn't you understand when I said this?[/QUOTE] I understood that and did not miss it, I just felt like elaborating a tiny bit. Also, that sucks about your knee. Start wearing a knee brace, and if your up to it, before you start walking, try to "roll" your knees. Like stand up in a slightly bent position so you can touch your knees, and then make a circular motion with you knees. It may seem like a stupidly simple motion, but it can help out a fair amount in some cases.
[QUOTE=NO ONE;37532123]I understood that and did not miss it, I just felt like elaborating a tiny bit. Also, that sucks about your knee. Start wearing a knee brace, and if your up to it, before you start walking, try to "roll" your knees. Like stand up in a slightly bent position so you can touch your knees, and then make a circular motion with you knees. It may seem like a stupidly simple motion, but it can help out a fair amount in some cases.[/QUOTE] I'm doing far better than Saturday (the day I did this). It still hurts kicking the bag and running for a while but I'm doing that to keep it in shape. Also my doctor said it wouldn't be a bad idea to get my bike out of the garage once the pain stops. Today I'll have my Krav Maga class and I'l explain this to the coach. See if he can give me exercises for this. This sucks because I'm the kind of guy who loses muscle very fast. I'm slender, and I take too much to build up muscle, specially in my arms, but when I stop making sports for a week or two, there goes all my work.
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;37530961]Beach wrestling will never be the same again! People will start wondering what type of magical powers you have as you constantly flip them over your head, over and over again with a butterfly sweep. They fall for it every time all the time![/QUOTE] I don't know what you're trying to imply, but I didn't mean I was going to bring what I learn into beach wrestling or anything. I don't do that anymore, I'm not fuckin' 15
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;37541931]I don't know what you're trying to imply, but I didn't mean I was going to bring what I learn into beach wrestling or anything. I don't do that anymore, I'm not fuckin' 15[/QUOTE] I'm not implying you start professional jj beach wrestling. And you don't have to get offended either. I still brawl around on the beach, especially if we've been drinking all day.
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;37545234]I'm not implying you start professional jj beach wrestling. And you don't have to get offended either. I still brawl around on the beach, especially if we've been drinking all day.[/QUOTE] I once applied a krav magian kick in the balls to my friend in the beach. It ended with me picking up all my stuff from the sea.
I think i gonna quit MA for real, all i find is weak styles like karate, ninjutsu not really mcdojos, the senseis there don't want money, they want their students to advance. Too bad the style is wrong. I thought i found one style that is good: british jiu jitsu and mma with the same sensei, but it turned to be greedy, he sels alot of shit like keychains and seminars. There is no martial arts in my town how are ment to be. I think i'm gonna quit forever :(.
There's no well known martial arts nowadays that doesn't sell merchandise. And in fact the reality is that every martial art is divided in many different federations, each following their own way. And they all want a slice of the cake (students), so yeah, the truth is, there is a market and they have to make themselves attractive and sell image too. It's not just in martial arts, nowadays this is how the world goes... unfortunately. Anyway, I think it's a little harsh for you to quit for real. You have to see that it's a hobby, it's leisure and stick with that way of life. If you don't want to move on, train hard, kick ass and all that shit, it's pretty tolerable that you go there only for sports. I mean, martial arts are a great way to keep in shape too. Also it's cheap compared to other sports. In my gym, I'm currently practicing Krav Maga for 30€ per month. If I put in an extra 10€ I'm allowed to use the gym space as I see fit throughout the month. Try finding something like that. Don't quit for realz bro! :v:
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;37545234]I'm not implying you start professional jj beach wrestling. And you don't have to get offended either. I still brawl around on the beach, especially if we've been drinking all day.[/QUOTE] sorry, I didn't mean to sound offended, I just quit smoking and found out I have Bipolar :v:
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37558096]There's no well known martial arts nowadays that doesn't sell merchandise. And in fact the reality is that every martial art is divided in many different federations, each following their own way. And they all want a slice of the cake (students), so yeah, the truth is, there is a market and they have to make themselves attractive and sell image too. It's not just in martial arts, nowadays this is how the world goes... unfortunately. Anyway, I think it's a little harsh for you to quit for real. You have to see that it's a hobby, it's leisure and stick with that way of life. If you don't want to move on, train hard, kick ass and all that shit, it's pretty tolerable that you go there only for sports. I mean, martial arts are a great way to keep in shape too. Also it's cheap compared to other sports. In my gym, I'm currently practicing Krav Maga for 30€ per month. If I put in an extra 10€ I'm allowed to use the gym space as I see fit throughout the month. Try finding something like that. Don't quit for realz bro! :v:[/QUOTE] 30€ is a lot for me, also my country is poor and don't have serious gyms i come tired from work to this gym, and this sensei makes fun of me. Calls me karate kid, really don't know why. And if i go to another gym, I have to learn a new style from scratch or to learn urealistic shit, like those punches from karate.
That sucks man.
Challenge your sensei to an duel
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;37564825]Challenge your sensei to an duel[/QUOTE] he's 3x than me
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37535460]I'm doing far better than Saturday (the day I did this). It still hurts kicking the bag and running for a while but I'm doing that to keep it in shape. Also my doctor said it wouldn't be a bad idea to get my bike out of the garage once the pain stops. Today I'll have my Krav Maga class and I'l explain this to the coach. See if he can give me exercises for this. This sucks because I'm the kind of guy who loses muscle very fast. I'm slender, and I take too much to build up muscle, specially in my arms, but when I stop making sports for a week or two, there goes all my work.[/QUOTE] Remove troublesome thought from your mind as it is both completely a figment of your fears and not based by any concrete laws.
my sensei the guy in red and black suit [video=youtube;PF9OePTsIiM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF9OePTsIiM[/video] [video=youtube;vGpE9bxj6iE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGpE9bxj6iE[/video] other vids here [url]http://www.youtube.com/user/perenialistul/videos[/url] [url]http://www.youtube.com/user/escrimadoradi/videos[/url]
[QUOTE=Seith;37577123]Remove troublesome thought from your mind as it is both completely a figment of your fears and not based by any concrete laws.[/QUOTE] Dude... What?
[QUOTE=Wolfz;37580177]video[/QUOTE] And I thought my gym was poverty status.
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;37590148]And I thought my gym was poverty status.[/QUOTE] I hope the people in your gym can actually fight, those videos are embarrassing.
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