Yeah, katas are kinda weird. I have the most trouble learning them, and some have moves that are purely "artistic", like rolling your knuckles. But I still see value in them, because they give you ideas to defending yourself. You can use parts of katas/forms to defend yourself. I mean if all you did were combinations, you might feel restricted once you do a few combo techniques in a row and they don't do the job.
The biggest bullshit about katas/forms is that they have meaning. They don't. There is no special message hidden in any of them, no nothing. They are just certain movements that get progressively harder each rank so that you can keep up your skill to a degree. They are just ways of training your body on your own. They are essentially shadow boxing really.
Kata's are moving meditations.
They develop focus, breath work (Like Qigong) and mind-body control.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;34897514]I meditate for up to an hour a day.
I have been mostly devoted to disassembling ego, becoming more present and seeing things how they actually are, not through the skewed lens of past experience.[/QUOTE]
Fuck that noise
ego is a good thing hth
'He does not know who he is; he simply knows what others think about him.'
That is, in short, what ego is:- A reflection, it is what others think of you and what you believe you are as a result. Sure there's good ego and damaged ego, but if you do away with it altogether, you remove the need for any form of validation, what remains is unbounded.
Read this rather, I can't do it justice, nor can I help you as I still have my own to deal with:
[url]http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;34901653]Kata's are moving meditations.
They develop focus, breath work (Like Qigong) and mind-body control.[/QUOTE]
Nothing sparring doesn't develop as well.
Sparring is too fast paced for that.
Martial arts tricking for fun and aethstetics
Thai boxing and kick boxing classes for my stand up.
and just broad mma classes for more stand up + my ground game.
I done tae kwon do for 5 years and it was an utter waste of time : Chambered kicks and pointless stance ftw, it was only really important on a spiritual level.
Don't really bother with gradings, should be going in the cage not long after I turn 16 though :)
[QUOTE=WuWei;34914469]Sparring is too fast paced for that.[/QUOTE]
The whole point is to adjust to the pace. To be able to breathe, focus, and relax even though a lot is going on. Sure, when you first start sparring, it's a blur. But I've been doing it for quite some time now and I'm able to work on all those things even during fast sessions.
I fail to see how doing predetermined movements develops focus and whatnot. Having to react to an unpredictable opponent improves focus. You develop the ability to control your breathing and your movements. Saying you can't do that stuff because it's too fast is just insulting yourself. Sure, it's intimidating at first, but you learn by doing.
[QUOTE=WuWei;34914469]Sparring is too fast paced for that.[/QUOTE]
Boxers fight 12 rounds but don't know how to breathe?
Mayweather doesn't have laser beam like focus??
Help how to throw combination and get my feet in the right place because sparring definitely is too fast to develop mind-body control!!
I don't think you understand me there. When you learn these by sparring, you come to a halt on a fairly superficial level. To go deeper, you need to slow down the movements drastically and feel what is going on inside of your body.
How do my shoulders stand in relationship to my hips? What's connecting my hands and feet? How can I link elbows and shoulders? What does my spine? How do I rotate, what muscles do I use, how much do I load my tendons and ligaments, how exactly am I balanced, am I relaxed enough, how can I amplify my strength by breathing... and much more.
In the end, you want to create one solid, smooth moving unit. Every movement is done with the entire body. You feel how the power comes up to your feet, rises up your legs, gets a direction from the hips, how the spine amplifies it, how it flows through your shoulders to your elbows and wrists to show itself in the fingers.
Then you take the speed up a notch, but only if you can do the moves as good as you can do them slow. If that works, you can finally let the power explode.
Kata, or forms, are used to train your mind and body. But they are no replacement to sparring. Sparring develops different qualities much, much better than forms could ever do.
(I'll try to upload a video of what I understand under a "form".)
I used to train AIKIDO and actually reached yellow belt but then the dojo went bankrupt and I stooped.
Now I practice Krav Maga with EFKM and I've been loving it. My teacher is a SWAT cop and also does jiu jitsu and kickboxing so he is excellent in preparing us for a real fight.
I'm going to stay for long in Krav Maga, it actually helped me when some guys tried to rob me some months ago.
I'm thinking of maybe starting Russian systema in a couple of years too.
Once again, you develop all of those things while sparring. At least you should, if you're sparring willy nilly doing whatever then you're doing it wrong.
That's why you start off sparring nice and easy until your mind adapts to the speed.
It's like running plays in football. You do them against air just to grasp the general idea of the play (akin to learning certain techniques) but you have to do repetition upon repetition against a real defense at high speeds before you can see what it's supposed to look like during the real deal. Katas are like constantly running plays against air. Yeah, you get the movements down, but when the real deal comes around, you're fucked. Going against air so much has caused your brain to develop habits and expectations. What happens when the hole isn't there? What happens when the pitch is bad? You'll just lock up.
Katas make you develop bad habits. You learn how to put power into that backfist after the crossover step, but your muscle memory will fuck you when your opponent moves. You won't be able to adapt because you've learned how to do that movement in that one way.
Forms are archaic methods of training. At the end of the day, martial arts are about weaponizing the human body in the most efficient way possible (mentally and physically) and forms go against that. Hell, even Bruce Lee thought they were ridiculous as well, and practically mastered the art of meditation through martial arts.
[editline]29th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;34930410]
I'm thinking of maybe starting Russian systema in a couple of years too.[/QUOTE]
Don't buy into the whole Systema thing, it's crap. There's some sambo elements and whatnot you could learn from it (just do sambo) but the whole pressure point stuff it preaches is just dumb. Those videos you see of guys putting people on the ground with light touches are just people acting.
I have a pal who went to a Systema gym that supposedly had a really experienced leader or whatever they call masters there, wanting to know what it was all about. They put on sparring gear and went at it, the systema guy broke his hand on one of the first strikes because he tried some stupid finger jab stuff. Also had no idea how to deal with kicks.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbEGgZ86Ci0[/media]
See the clips of the "real" sparring? It's just guys flailing their arms around and whatnot. Then it has all of those clips of guys "attacking" with extremely horrible technique at slow speeds. This happens in virtually every video you find of it, anyone doing any attacking comes in slow with their hands down and half-assed techniques, acting like every light touch has the power of Tyson's uppercut. Don't wast your money on it.
I remember watching multiple videos and reading shit saying that Systema was quite literally a scam. The guys who created it would just act like shit worked when they would do demos. Like his partner would fall down from like a backhand smack to the belly or some shit.
Trying to find a good routine that will get me in shape (IE keeping my cardio up to date) for MMA, but I'm also trying to gain weight. Possible?
[QUOTE=AgentBoomstick;34935117]Trying to find a good routine that will get me in shape (IE keeping my cardio up to date) for MMA, but I'm also trying to gain weight. Possible?[/QUOTE]
Anything is possible
[QUOTE=AgentBoomstick;34935117]Trying to find a good routine that will get me in shape (IE keeping my cardio up to date) for MMA, but I'm also trying to gain weight. Possible?[/QUOTE]
Eat muscle milk ice cream while jump roping
so this whole MMA institute plan I had has to wait some. it's all the way on the south side of richmond which is like 65 mile ride for me. instead ive opted to start training and sparring with a few friends of mine. most of them are amateur, about the same level of experience as me, but one guy, holy shit he is fucking incredible. looking forward to getting my ass handed to me and learning something useful.
only problem is i started up smoking fucking cigarettes again after like my fifth unsuccessful attempt to stop. the rate at which I smoke now (a few a day) isn't horrible (once a pack a day smoker) but it sure as fuck is not doing me any favors.
[QUOTE=WuWei;34928695]I don't think you understand me there. When you learn these by sparring, you come to a halt on a fairly superficial level. To go deeper, you need to slow down the movements drastically and feel what is going on inside of your body.
How do my shoulders stand in relationship to my hips? What's connecting my hands and feet? How can I link elbows and shoulders? What does my spine? How do I rotate, what muscles do I use, how much do I load my tendons and ligaments, how exactly am I balanced, am I relaxed enough, how can I amplify my strength by breathing... and much more.
In the end, you want to create one solid, smooth moving unit. Every movement is done with the entire body. You feel how the power comes up to your feet, rises up your legs, gets a direction from the hips, how the spine amplifies it, how it flows through your shoulders to your elbows and wrists to show itself in the fingers.
Then you take the speed up a notch, but only if you can do the moves as good as you can do them slow. If that works, you can finally let the power explode.
Kata, or forms, are used to train your mind and body. But they are no replacement to sparring. Sparring develops different qualities much, much better than forms could ever do.
(I'll try to upload a video of what I understand under a "form".)[/QUOTE]
Yep, exactly what he said.
They are for different purposes alltogether. Master body & mind and you'll generally be better off.
You need both.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;34942644]Yep, exactly what he said.
They are for different purposes alltogether. Master body & mind and you'll generally be better off.[/QUOTE]
It's the only way I improved. It is a good technique for practice at anything really.
So i did some light sparring tonight. Worked on my grappling, was pretty good. Only issue is I outweigh my partner by about 40 pounds. There are lighter smaller guys that could kick my ass easily but the guy's out of practice. He has about three years of solid Muay Thai training but no recent conditioning haha. No problem, I'm having a new friend of mine bring headgear, gloves, and mats sunday. Guy is an amazing MMA fighter and I am looking forward to the challenge. I've been able to do some good training lately, my stand up has improved drastically so I'm pretty happy with my progress so far.
Systema is a fantastic scam
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;34969733]Systema is a fantastic scam[/QUOTE]
My favorite thing about it is how it claims the Russian special forces use it.
Yet the only sources claiming that are from Systema texts (everyone knows Russia does Sambo).
Makes a wonderful tautological argument. "The Russians use Systema because Systema says they do!"
Only an idiot would think any military force employs striking arts. Even military Krav Maga in Israel is modified to be mostly grappling and disarming with very few strikes. Nobody strikes while wearing body armor and gear, it just isn't feasible. They only teach extremely basic jits submissions and judo throws in the US military because they're all you can do while wearing that gear. Close combat is essentially a struggle to get the other guy on the ground, then run and get a real weapon before he can get up.
[QUOTE=Shovelpass;34969836]My favorite thing about it is how it claims the Russian special forces use it.
Yet the only sources claiming that are from Systema texts (everyone knows Russia does Sambo).
Makes a wonderful tautological argument. "The Russians use Systema because Systema says they do!"
[/QUOTE]
this sounds oddly like a religious arguement
[QUOTE=Shovelpass;34930456]Once again, you develop all of those things while sparring. At least you should, if you're sparring willy nilly doing whatever then you're doing it wrong.
That's why you start off sparring nice and easy until your mind adapts to the speed.
It's like running plays in football. You do them against air just to grasp the general idea of the play (akin to learning certain techniques) but you have to do repetition upon repetition against a real defense at high speeds before you can see what it's supposed to look like during the real deal. Katas are like constantly running plays against air. Yeah, you get the movements down, but when the real deal comes around, you're fucked. Going against air so much has caused your brain to develop habits and expectations. What happens when the hole isn't there? What happens when the pitch is bad? You'll just lock up.
Katas make you develop bad habits. You learn how to put power into that backfist after the crossover step, but your muscle memory will fuck you when your opponent moves. You won't be able to adapt because you've learned how to do that movement in that one way.
Forms are archaic methods of training. At the end of the day, martial arts are about weaponizing the human body in the most efficient way possible (mentally and physically) and forms go against that. Hell, even Bruce Lee thought they were ridiculous as well, and practically mastered the art of meditation through martial arts.
[editline]29th February 2012[/editline]
Don't buy into the whole Systema thing, it's crap. There's some sambo elements and whatnot you could learn from it (just do sambo) but the whole pressure point stuff it preaches is just dumb. Those videos you see of guys putting people on the ground with light touches are just people acting.
I have a pal who went to a Systema gym that supposedly had a really experienced leader or whatever they call masters there, wanting to know what it was all about. They put on sparring gear and went at it, the systema guy broke his hand on one of the first strikes because he tried some stupid finger jab stuff. Also had no idea how to deal with kicks.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbEGgZ86Ci0[/media]
See the clips of the "real" sparring? It's just guys flailing their arms around and whatnot. Then it has all of those clips of guys "attacking" with extremely horrible technique at slow speeds. This happens in virtually every video you find of it, anyone doing any attacking comes in slow with their hands down and half-assed techniques, acting like every light touch has the power of Tyson's uppercut. Don't wast your money on it.[/QUOTE]
Then what do the Spetznaz really do then? Sambo?
But isn't sambo practically a martial art full of floor techniques or does it have real contact too?
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;34997169]Then what do the Spetznaz really do then? Sambo?
But isn't sambo practically a martial art full of floor techniques or does it have real contact too?[/QUOTE]
Sambo is essentially a mix between Judo and BJJ. Revolves around taking someone down to the ground while entering a submission, instead of doing them in succession. At least that's what military Sambo is, I've never watched sport Sambo.
Like I said, military forces don't train in striking arts because striking is useless against a guy wearing a helmet and body armor. Spetznaz do Sambo, the rest isn't really a martial art in itself, just techniques on how to kill people very fast.
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;34997169]Then what do the Spetznaz really do then? Sambo?
But isn't sambo practically a martial art full of floor techniques or does it have real contact too?[/QUOTE]
The most hand to hand a Spetznaz would ever have to do would be a takedown. After that they could shoot them or whatever they do. Submissions outside of controlling hostages is useless in the military world.
I'm pretty out of shape, but I've been doing aikido for about 6 months now. Good stuff, good teachers. Getting in shape for the first time in forever. Feels good man.
Akido isn't really the best art for getting into shape.
[QUOTE=Shovelpass;34997393]Sambo is essentially a mix between Judo and BJJ. Revolves around taking someone down to the ground while entering a submission, instead of doing them in succession. At least that's what military Sambo is, I've never watched sport Sambo.
Like I said, military forces don't train in striking arts because striking is useless against a guy wearing a helmet and body armor. Spetznaz do Sambo, the rest isn't really a martial art in itself, just techniques on how to kill people very fast.[/QUOTE]
As a military defence system practitioner (Krav Maga), something doesn't seem right in that description.
Soldiers specially Special Forces operatives such as the Spetznaz need more than a grappling system such as sambo. A combination between BJJ and Judo seem very ineffective when fighting multiple targets. For example, if a person's trying to control a threat on the floor he will not be able to defend himself against others threats in that instant. That's what we learn in Krav Maga.
And this is why I believe that military systema is effective at some point DEPENDING on the federation behind it and the people who are teaching it and certainly military personal learn more than just grappling in their defence systems right.
That video you've shown me is obviously fake and people are making obvious mistakes there regarding balance and posture but there are fake Krav Maga dojos too, in my case.
I can find you a large sum of videos regarding Krav Maga with techniques that don't work too.
Where I'm trying to get at is: There's no way Spetznaz only learn Sambo in their martial arts and Systema is indeed taught to them under the name of GRU System (Spetsnaz GRU hand-to-hand combat style). Problem is for civilians there are a lot of federations that create a huge marketing around it and don't teach it the right way preaching that systema will make you a kick ass ninja-rambo when indeed it doesn't.
The same things has been hapening with Krav Maga unfortunately and there are a lot of federations out there that just teach it as a combination of other martial arts with some kick ass ninja style kicks and punches and no KM at all.
Anyway, can someone demonstrate me some combat sambo training?
And by the way. What style is this? It has lots of techniques that we do in Krav Maga, but it's russian:
[video=youtube;nfMn_4BoSHs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfMn_4BoSHs[/video]
[video=youtube;vOvEsxTCwJ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvEsxTCwJ0[/video]
(music's kinda stupid though, sorry for that)
Anyway, I found another video regarding the Systema punch proving its effectiveness:
[video=youtube;2tzGD5riUvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzGD5riUvY[/video]
Fedor Emelianenko; arguably one of the best MMA fighters that ever lived. If you need inspiration watch videos of this guy, seriously
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77QoN2P90b0[/media]
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