• Are we really a smart species?
    148 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Seb McMeb;18974061]An alien species thats smart enough that quantum mechanics is 2 + 2 = 4 to them would tower us in intelligence, we'd be infinitely primitive compared to them.[/QUOTE] Cybernetic implants will give us the edge in the future though. Soon we will be able to increase our intelligence, our knowledge exponentially.
[QUOTE=Nori;18977747]Other species comprehend death quite well, actually. If a dog is attached to another dog and that other dog dies, it will be extremely depressed.[/QUOTE] I would be too, who wants to drag a dead dog around
[QUOTE=sltungle;18976942]Why is it the proportionality that matters rather than the raw amount? Is it because the same proportion of their brain has to be used to maintain bodily functions and the likes as ours? Or is it some more vague reason?[/QUOTE] Dunno. I think that's part of it. But there's not any real universal scale of measurement--individual evolutionary paths change a lot and produce brains with different priorities. Neanderthal brains are very similar to human brains and are somewhat larger, all other things considered, than ours. But I don't think anybody is suggesting they were smarter.
[QUOTE=TH89;18974240]Um yeah it does[/QUOTE] Elephants and whales have larger brains than us. In this case, we have more grey matter and are smarter than chimps, but it's not always he case where bigger brain = smarter. neanderthals has a slightly larger brain than us, and part of me doubts they were as intelligent as the cro-magnon man.
[QUOTE=st0rmforce;18984735]I would be too, who wants to drag a dead dog around[/QUOTE] [img]http://kimberlyburton.typepad.com/memoirs_of_a_redhead/images/2007/12/15/ist2_4358818_nothing_but_net.jpg[/img] [editline]10:12AM[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;18984837]Elephants and whales have larger brains than us. In this case, we have more grey matter and are smarter than chimps, but it's not always he case where bigger brain = smarter. neanderthals has a slightly larger brain than us, and part of me doubts they were as intelligent as the cro-magnon man.[/QUOTE] thred reade nowe (there's a significant difference between two brains, one of which is slightly larger and structured slightly differently, and two other brains, one of which is MASSIVELY larger and structured slightly differently. what matters isn't just the size, but the difference in the size variable as compared to the difference in what other variables may be factoring in, which is why the whale comparison doesn't work--the difference in brain size is dwarfed by differences in overall physiology, genetic material, etc. the reason the size comparison works as something generally analogous to intelligence between great apes and humans is that all other things are [i]mostly[/i] equal.) (also the idea that neanderthals were more or less equally intelligent to cro-magnons, but in different capacities, is not all that uncommon)
[QUOTE=TH89;18984842] thred reade nowe[/QUOTE] From what I see, you attempted to cover a bad argument with slight rationality. Intellegence comparison doesn't have much to do with what family the species belongs to. In this case it applies, but the simple term "more Grey matter means you're smarter" is not true. What is true is more grey matter in relation to [I]smaller body mass[/I] makes you more intelligent. Just saying "more grey matter makes you more intelligent" is a gross oversimplification.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;18984913]In this case it applies, but the simple term "more Grey matter means you're smarter" is not true. What is true is more grey matter in relation to [I]smaller body mass[/I] makes you more intelligent.[/QUOTE] No, that's not true either lol
[QUOTE=TH89;18984842] (also the idea that neanderthals were more or less equally intelligent to cro-magnons, but in different capacities, is not all that uncommon)[/QUOTE] Some animals are smarter in some capacities and others are better in other capacities. That shouldn't really be taken into account when measuring intelligence. By those standards I could say a couger is smarter in different capacities because they might react to certain situations in better ways than a human would. [editline]09:27AM[/editline] [QUOTE=TH89;18984922]No, that's not true either lol[/QUOTE] And where did you learn otherwise?
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;18984933]Some animals are smarter in some capacities and others are better in other capacities. That shouldn't really be taken into account when measuring intelligence. By those standards I could say a couger is smarter in different capacities because they might react to certain situations in better ways than a human would.[/QUOTE] But that's different in that it's not a result of superior cognitive ability. [QUOTE=hypno-toad;18984933]And where did you learn otherwise?[/QUOTE] Mice have larger brains relative to their body size than whales do. Which do you think are smarter?
I'm pretty sure there are exceptions for creatures that small considering mice weigh almost nothing. [editline]09:32AM[/editline] [QUOTE=TH89;18984944]But that's different in that it's not a result of superior cognitive ability. [/QUOTE] It was a crude example.
There are lots of exceptions. Which is why your generalization isn't really any more reliable than the one you were claiming I had made (which I hadn't--remember what I said was [b]we[/b] are smarter than [b]chimps[/b] because we have bigger brains, which is still more or less true). [editline]10:36AM[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;18984960]It was a crude example.[/QUOTE] What? It was a wrong example.
[QUOTE=TH89;18984984]There are lots of exceptions. Which is why your generalization isn't really any more reliable than the one you were claiming I had made (which I hadn't--remember what I said was [b]we[/b] are smarter than [b]chimps[/b] because we have bigger brains, which is still more or less true). [/QUOTE] Well obviously you are very educated in the subject. Brain to body mass ratio is commonly used, so you should go onto wikipedia, tell the people running the article they are wrong, and then edit the information to be correct so we can all be enlightened. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-to-body_mass_ratio[/url]
ok ttyl i have to go sleep to recharge my enormous brain [editline]10:42AM[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;18985018]Well obviously you are very educated in the subject. Brain to body mass ratio is commonly used, so you should go onto wikipedia, tell the people running the article they are wrong, and then edit the information to be correct so we can all be enlightened. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-to-body_mass_ratio[/url][/QUOTE] Fortunately, they already addressed it in the last 3 paragraphs of the article
Sleep is for suckers. Also, if it's already adressed, then there's your answer as to why mice aren't super intelligent.
what do you know you are just a toad!
Why do you say these things when you know they'll hurt me :saddowns:
The quantum mechanics example was really poor, since you can only understand it if you don't understand it. I'll just leave this here... [quote] # If you are not completely confused by quantum mechanics, you do not understand it. John Wheeler. # It is safe to say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. Richard Feynman. [/quote]
If we found an alien race or they found us, they would be much more intelligent.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;18974723]we learned to communicate BECAUSE of self awareness- which means it all started with self awareness. exactly what i said.[/QUOTE] [b]Thousands of other species communicate primitively.[/b] It's a key element of a species' survival, as many animals need to communicate to breed and multiply. Communication has not only been instilled on humans.. [b]It has nothing to do with self-awareness...[/b] It's evolution and the development of complex organs such as the vocal cords (as seen in birds especially.) [b]The bottom line is as follows:[/b] [b]Human beings are more intelligent than apes for a variety of reasons.[/b] One of these is the fact that we have more Grey Matter in our cerebral cortex, brain stem, and spine compared to apes. You keep arguing that Grey Matter has nothing to do with humans having more intelligence because, I quote, "animals like whales have more Grey Matter", but the bottom line is, our brains utilize the Grey Matter in a more efficient way compared to other species, and our brain's large service area in combination with efficiency is a reasoning behind our intelligence. [b]Please stop shit posting about topics you don't formally understand..[/b]
[quote]What is true is more grey matter in relation to smaller body mass makes you more intelligent.[/quote] How does that work? Two brains that both weigh x kilograms with y neurones and z cranial folds will still be of approximately the same intelligence regardless of whether the body they are in has a mass of 100kg or 10,000kg.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;18994544]How does that work? Two brains that both weigh x kilograms with y neurones and z cranial folds will still be of approximately the same intelligence regardless of whether the body they are in has a mass of 100kg or 10,000kg.[/QUOTE] No. A mass of 10,000 kg is more complex to control rather than 100 kg. But it would not be a rather major difference.
[B]Man make fire!!!111[/B]
What you just said was so stupid that you may as well just walk backwards into the sea
I think we are.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;18974456]i'll say it again because, clearly, your ape-esque mind can't grasp my statement i made no mention in my comment of gray matter in relation to SIZE or GENUS. that means i'm saying that we're indeed smarter cognitively than animals, but your example of "anything with lots of gray matter is smart" was terrible this explains why you spend your day on an internet forum and not in college- you wouldn't make it a day in biology.[/QUOTE] Oh I love how the stupid guy is calling the smart guy stupid.
We have invented machines that drastically make our lives easier, and we have invented medicines that increas our life span dramatically, considering that we know of no other species that has acomplished those things, by that logic we are smart.
Nah, we only have skills in being able to learn stuff.
The quantum physics as second nature thing is a little silly, considering such an ability isnt so much related to pure basic intelligence as it is applying that intelligence to vast amounts of knowledge that have been discovered over decades of scientific study. The intelligence would have more effect on how quickly one would be able to learn the concept and how well they remember it.
I forgot to mention something about Alex the parrot. Alex's last words to Dr. Pepperberg were: “You be good, see you tomorrow. I love you.” :crying:
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