'Feminist logic' Stay Safe = YOU DESERVE RAPE! - General

Who wants to take a bet with me for how many pages a feminist argument on facepunch can go on for?

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42469503]Who wants to take a bet with me for how many pages a feminist argument on facepunch can go on for?[/QUOTE] Would be a great idea if not for threads auto-locking after a post limit

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42469486]Guess what - [i]not everyone in a wheelchair is strong like that[/i]. Plus, there's the blind or folks who have neurological difficulties in reading human body language.[/QUOTE] My stance of taking extra precautions in those cases (the bottom half of the pyramid, traveling with friends or family, etc.,) does a hell of a lot more than your stance of willing the harm away with good intentions.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42469527]My stance of taking extra precautions in those cases (the bottom half of the pyramid, traveling with friends or family, etc.,) does a hell of a lot more than your stance of willing the harm away with good intentions.[/QUOTE] Check your reading comprehension.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42469545]Check your reading comprehension.[/QUOTE] Oh shit sick burn omg son you need some ice wit DAT. what are you gonna do rate everyone dumb.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42469560]Oh shit sick burn omg son you need some ice wit DAT. what are you gonna do rate everyone dumb.[/QUOTE] He's certainly not displaying any ability to read what other posters have posted.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42469560]Oh shit sick burn omg son you need some ice wit DAT. what are you gonna do rate everyone dumb.[/QUOTE] It's more annoying when you act disrespectful in a thread and have the gall to ask how long it's gonna go on for.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42469545]Check your reading comprehension.[/QUOTE] I'm proposing myraid ways in which an individual can empower themselves. Your job so far seems to be to prove that not all people can avoid all tragedy. And you would be right. This is where political and social reform comes in. In the meantime, tragedies will happen but by taking steps to empower yourself and take control of a bad situation or by avoiding the situation entirely will have a much greater survival rate. Fine, however, I'll admit it; the blind paraplegic with autism who is out by himself and jumped in a dark alleyway will probably not be able to defend themselves. That's the unfortunate reality.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42469444]Really wish people would stop comparing rape to theft etc. The motivations behind both crimes are entirely different. Malicious rape is committed for psychological gratification. Theft is done pretty much only for physical reasons (ie need to steal some cash/food so you can survive). Therefore comparing rape prevention to theft prevention is stupid as fuck. But then there's the fact that a LOT (pretty sure it's the majority in fact) of rape is done because people simply don't know that they are raping someone. [url]http://www.uic.edu/depts/owa/sa_rape_support.html[/url] It is the way our society portrays sex and women in general that breeds rapists. It's entirely unfair for our culture to be this way then turn around and say "you ladies should be taking precautions!" The responsibility is on [I]us[/I] to make it a safer society for women, not them.[/QUOTE] I think everyone needs to be taking precautions in the situation, man or woman. The alcohol thing only applies in a select few cases and what you are talking about is the whole spectrum. No one is saying self control etc. can completely stop all rapes, but taking the right precautions in certain situations can help prevent some cases. Rape is wrong, and you shouldn't be taken advantage of at a party simply because you had a good time and wound up a little tipsy. Problem is, rapists tend to not give a shit about what's right or wrong. It's wrong to blame the victim for this sort of thing, but it happens in the real world. A rapist, or any other criminal for that matter isn't gonna listen when you say "rape is wrong, and having sex with drunk people is rape". I understand the problem comes from our culture, but it's a bit foolish to expect culture to turn opn a dime and all rapists to stop just because some guys on the internet said that rape is bad. And on the subject of parties and krunk life rape Rape has multiple possible causes. There are a lot of flaws in our society. You can't cover all rape crimes with one blanket, and you can't argue all solutions with one blanket. All that is being said is that being responsible, having a wingman or staying sober yourself can make you less likely to be a victim. Make sure you are partying in a safe environment and have something to do when shit goes bad. Man or woman it doesn't matter. Don't get so drunk you can't comprehend consent not matter what sex you are unless you have someone there to pull you out of bad situations. Simple partying rules.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42469596]I'm proposing myraid ways in which an individual can empower themselves. [/QUOTE] Thank you for your valuable information, white boy from a video game forum. I'll go tell my karate instructor I don't need him anymore now that you've gone out of your way to help me get empowered. You're so generous and thoughtful, will you be my boyfriend? I've been looking for a strong male figure like you to be like my shepard.

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;42469616]I think everyone needs to be taking precautions in the situation, man or woman. The alcohol thing only applies in a select few cases and what you are talking about is the whole spectrum. No one is saying self control etc. can completely stop all rapes, but taking the right precautions in certain situations can help prevent some cases. Rape is wrong, and you shouldn't be taken advantage of at a party simply because you had a good time and wound up a little tipsy. Problem is, rapists tend to not give a shit about what's right or wrong. It's wrong to blame the victim for this sort of thing, but it happens in the real world. A rapist, or any other criminal for that matter isn't gonna listen when you say "rape is wrong, and having sex with drunk people is rape". I understand the problem comes from our culture, but it's a bit foolish to expect culture to turn opn a dime and all rapists to stop just because some guys on the internet said that rape is bad. And on the subject of parties and krunk life rape Rape has multiple possible causes. There are a lot of flaws in our society. You can't cover all rape crimes with one blanket, and you can't argue all solutions with one blanket. All that is being said is that being responsible, having a wingman or staying sober yourself can make you less likely to be a victim. Make sure you are partying in a safe environment and have something to do when shit goes bad. Man or woman it doesn't matter. Don't get so drunk you can't comprehend consent not matter what sex you are unless you have someone there to pull you out of bad situations. Simple partying rules.[/QUOTE] Well maybe people should start making youtube videos that clarify consent and the situations where consent isn't given instead of dumb people making dumb videos that are pretty much just thinly-veiled attacks on feminism instead of sincere attempts to help women. [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] And if you wanna argue the "rape has multiple causes" thing well getting raped by a stranger is one of the least likely causes there are. Being raped by someone you know is the most common and there is literally no way to prevent that in the ways that have been said in this thread.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42469675]Well maybe people should start making youtube videos that clarify consent and the situations where consent isn't given instead of dumb people making dumb videos that are pretty much just thinly-veiled attacks on feminism.[/QUOTE] Can't do that; that's too patronizing. Too obvious. [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42469675] And if you wanna argue the "rape has multiple causes" thing well getting raped by a stranger is one of the least likely causes there are. Being raped by someone you know is the most common and there is literally no way to prevent that in the ways that have been said in this thread.[/QUOTE] This would be an interesting discussion. Let's do a brainstorm; in what ways would a person exploit someone who trusts them to rape them? From there we can discuss different scenarios and possible ways to avert the tragedy. I feel like that would be a worthwhile discussion.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42469675]Well maybe people should start making youtube videos that clarify consent and the situations where consent isn't given instead of dumb people making dumb videos that are pretty much just thinly-veiled attacks on feminism.[/QUOTE] Honestly raising consentual awareness is the best thing we can do right now. Until the world is a place where no one will touch intoxicated persons, the best thing to do is to play it safe. It isn't an attack on feminism itself to rebut at some of it's ideas, but insulting it's practice as a whole like some people in this thread is just ridiculous and has led us to the point where anyone attempting to even rebut anything about feminism gets them labelled as a fedora wearing MRA while anyone supporting feminism is labelled as a extermist feminist. It's just turned the whole gender argument into two parties attacking the stereotypical portrayal of the opposition and no one will listen to each other anymore because they have been led to believe that they are talking to a brick wall of stupidity. TL;DR nobody knows how to debate anymore.

[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;42469630]Thank you for your valuable information, white boy from a video game forum. I'll go tell my karate instructor I don't need him anymore now that you've gone out of your way to help me get empowered. You're so generous and thoughtful, will you be my boyfriend? I've been looking for a strong male figure like you to be like my shepard.[/QUOTE] Is this post for real?

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;42469893]Is this post for real?[/QUOTE] Er, yes? It's a perfectly valid response, considering the other side is pulling out theorycrafting and one side is actually basing their arguments off the actual experiences of women.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42470001]Er, yes? It's a perfectly valid response, considering the other side is pulling out theorycrafting and one side is actually basing their arguments off the actual experiences of women.[/QUOTE] Intentionally baiting with ad-hominem and even more egregious misinterpretation than what I've done is considered a "valid argument" in your eyes? [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] I mean I'll admit that I took it too far with things like "you disgust me," and putting words in your mouth and for that I apologize, but really? You're gonna continue to stoop to a lower level?

[QUOTE=xxncxx;42463949]don't tell kids to look both ways, that's victim blaming![/QUOTE] A more apt analogy would be telling kids not to wear red when crossing the street, because wearing red might cause a driver to get really angry and run over you.

[QUOTE=Valnar;42470307]A more apt analogy would be telling kids not to wear red when crossing the street, because wearing red might cause a driver to get really angry and run over you.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I don't get that. At least in first world countries, I don't understand how wearing specific clothing means you are more likely to get raped.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42470075]Intentionally baiting with ad-hominem and even more egregious misinterpretation than what I've done is considered a "valid argument" in your eyes? [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] I mean I'll admit that I took it too far with things like "you disgust me," and putting words in your mouth and for that I apologize, but really? You're gonna continue to stoop to a lower level?[/QUOTE] You are acting like a caricature of the ignorant guy who comes blowing into a conversation, ignores half the stuff other folks say and then gets sniffy when he gets called on it. I've seen folks banned for better reading comprehension then you've shown. When you act like that... that manner of response is to be expected.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42470711]You are acting like a caricature of the ignorant guy who comes blowing into a conversation, ignores half the stuff other folks say and then gets sniffy when he gets called on it. I've seen folks banned for better reading comprehension then you've shown. When you act like that... that manner of response is to be expected.[/QUOTE] You're acting like the caricature of a feminist that an MRA would want others to believe is what all feminists are like. There is nothing unreasonable with acknowledging that there is a problem with society and seeking to strengthen one's defenses against a very real and lethal threat that millions of people suffer through. Being ignorant of that reality is what I consider to be among the most foolish things one could do. Implying that encouraging others to arm themselves with knowledge about reality is wrong is extremely dangerous thinking and is one of the few things in this world that I consider to be evil.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42470783]You're acting like the caricature of a feminist that an MRA would want others to believe is what all feminists are like. There is nothing unreasonable with acknowledging that there is a problem with society and seeking to strengthen one's defenses against a very real and lethal threat that millions of people suffer through. Being ignorant of that reality is what I consider to be among the most foolish things one could do. Implying that encouraging others to arm themselves with knowledge about reality is wrong is extremely dangerous thinking and is one of the few things in this world that I consider to be evil.[/QUOTE] Again, you demonstrate my point. Everything you've said has been said before [i]and rebutted. Multiple times.[/i]

I'm not against precautions, I don't care if you buy a pepper spray and carry it around with you all the time, but I will in no way force you to do it, and I don't even think it should be encouraged. I think precautions are irrelevent to fighting rape, because the only ones that really have an affect are unreasonable. Yes, going around with a pepper spray is in my opinion unreasonable. Not getting drunk because you're afraid to get raped is also unreasonable in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42470842]Again, you demonstrate my point. Everything you've said has been said before [i]and rebutted. Multiple times.[/i][/QUOTE] Then rebut them, this time without passive aggressive teen-aged angst, to my face, right here, so that we can discuss them accordingly then like adults.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42470933]Then rebut them, this time without passive aggressive teen-aged angst, to my face, right here, so that we can discuss them accordingly then like adults.[/QUOTE] I will not do your work for you. Read the thread again.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42470940]I will not do your work for you. Read the thread again.[/QUOTE] No offense but if you don't wanna take the fight then just drop it, "Read the thread" or "This has already been rebutted" are not arguments.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42470877]I'm not against precautions, I don't care if you buy a pepper spray and carry it around with you all the time, but I will in no way force you to do it, and I don't even think it should be encouraged. I think precautions are irrelevent to fighting rape, because the only ones that really have an affect are unreasonable. Yes, going around with a pepper spray is in my opinion unreasonable. Not getting drunk because you're afraid to get raped is also unreasonable in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Maybe carrying any sort of weapon could be considered unreasonable, I can give you that. However, having self control and not letting yourself get too drunk in public does not seem to be unreasonable in my opinion. I think that one should be responsible about their drug habits and know exactly how much they take before one blacks out or get so drunk that they begin to not understand what is right or wrong or lose inhibition or motor control or what have you. Not being raped is secondary to knowing your limits and enjoying your alcohol like a responsible adult for the safety of yourself and those around you. Again, not only because of rape.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42470933]Then rebut them, this time without passive aggressive teen-aged angst, to my face, right here, so that we can discuss them accordingly then like adults.[/QUOTE] Not liking how society downplays and normalises the concept of rape by making it seem like some inevitability of life that a woman must accept or learn to hide from rather than a crime we should be focusing on putting a stop to = "passive aggressive teen-aged angst"?

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42470940]I will not do your work for you. Read the thread again.[/QUOTE] You're the one who wants to convince me I'm wrong. Convince me. The ball is in your court. I have no obligation to create your arguments for you. [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;42470985]Not liking how society downplays and normalises the concept of rape by making it seem like some inevitability of life that a woman must accept or learn to hide from rather than a crime we should be focusing on putting a stop to = "passive aggressive teen-aged angst"?[/QUOTE] Now we're getting somewhere. In other words, you believe that my suggestion of learning to defend one's self is an act of submission and the loss of hope that these problems could ever be fixed from the source and is a way of fighting the problem from the bottom up instead of the top down and is ultimately ineffectual?

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42470974]Not being raped is secondary to knowing your limits and enjoying your alcohol like a responsible adult for the safety of you and those around you.[/QUOTE] If you get drunk and someone rapes you, it's your fault! If you wanted to get drunk you should have been born a boy, you knew the dangers! [editline]10th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42470990] Now we're getting somewhere. In other words, you believe that my suggestion of learning to defend one's self is an act of submission and the loss of hope that these problems could ever be fixed from the source and is a way of fighting the problem from the bottom up instead of the top down and is ultimately ineffectual?[/QUOTE] I don't take issue with people defending themselves, my issue is with how people like the one in the OP video present the concept in a ridiculous patronizing way. I can learn to defend myself just fine by signing up for self defence classes or visiting a shooting range or something, I don't need Reddit MRA types babbling down my ear that I "shouldn't dress skimpy" or "shouldn't go out drinking" like they're telling their fucking 5 year old kid to not talk to strangers.

[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;42471014]If you get drunk and someone rapes you, it's your fault! If you wanted to get drunk you should have been born a boy, you knew the dangers![/QUOTE] No matter how far fetched this sounds it's true, if you're telling girls not to get drunk, you're in a way being sexist, there's no way around that. [editline]10th October 2013[/editline] And that's why it's counter productive, cause rape is a problem with sexism in society.