[QUOTE=MR-X;42442882]my question is, why would he make a video like that about rape to begin with. Any normal person knows it is pretty much asking for trouble. I really don't get it, there seems to be no reason about why he did it. Not saying it should be an issue to avoid or talk about, but he could have discussed something better.[/QUOTE]
This is basically part of a temper tantrum that's been going p. near non-stop ever since he got thrown out of Freethought blogs for being a dingus. To get an idea of his behavior, he thought threatening to dump the emails with the identifying info of a transwoman to make a point was a jolly good idea instead of being an epic level douche. This is actually an improvement over previous behavior.
I have one question... [I]who cares.[/I]
It's not really factual whether or not dressing a certain way affects your chances of being raped. It's situational, and in any case, it's never the victim's fault.
HOWEVER, nobody is saying that it is the victim's fault, aaand... I feel like a lot of these people have a victim complex when they haven't even been raped. Who honestly gives a shit what this guy said?
What happened to the good old days of the internet where some shitty pseudo-intellectual YouTube video wouldn't spawn a million psuedo-intellectual blog rants? It's just plain annoying.
[QUOTE=pdp;42443062]
HOWEVER, nobody is saying that it is the victim's fault, aaand... I feel like a lot of these people have a victim complex when they haven't even been raped. Who honestly gives a shit what this guy said?
[/QUOTE]
You haven't seen some of the posts here, have you?
[video=youtube;KC6OdlgxsNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC6OdlgxsNI[/video]
here's my unstructured reply to a video that nearly gave me brain cancer from how stupid it is
[QUOTE=gudman;42442920]Crime [b]fucking is[/b] natural part of the society. Like it or not, but there's no way to stop crime from happening at all. If you think there is, you're daydreaming at best. All society can do is fight it where it happens, and draw the risk to a minimum where it can. Punish, avoid and prevent, everything else is impossible: it's no matter where you can dream of better world, it's a serious stuff that requires realistic view of the world.[/QUOTE]
What exactly is your point? Are you implying that we shouldn't treat rape as a crime (which we aim to eliminate) and just accept the fact that it happens? I don't really understand what you're saying, crime is very much real and yeah it's going to be very hard to eliminate any type of crime, doesn't change the fact that it's wrong and we should try to do so.
[QUOTE=Cone;42442310]um i think you may have missed my point. if they're willing to rape someone just for sex (not actually why people commit rape btw) then i kind of doubt your choice in clothing will matter. i mean, do you seriously think a burqa would actually stop them? no of course not (or at least i sincerely hope so), so why the fuck would anything else[/QUOTE]
1. Stop making it look like clothing is the only factor in here. Nobody said that. TF even said that even if you take all precautions possible you can still be raped.
2. You think that there aren't rapes that happen out of lust? For instance a guy buying drinks for a girl in order to make her so drunk she won't refuse? Yes most of the time it's to dominate, but that's kinda irrelevant since he was talking only about those that happen out of lust. And while there isn't much you control when you get raped by someone you trusted, you do control SOME factors when it comes to strangers.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42442373]Because
1) precautions won't do diddly squat to affect the likelihood of it happening, because ultimately, whether or not the rape happens is up to... the rapist! not the victim! isn't that basic common logic?[/QUOTE]
Again TF even said that even if you take all precautions possible you can still be raped. Taking precautions is not the way you stop rapes from happening. It's just a smart thing to do as long as the problem exist.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42442373]2) when you start spreading the idea that it's up to the victim to take precautions, it's just gonna increase the already-existing victim blaming which is "but why didn't you take precautions?" "why did you do X?" "why did you do Y?"[/QUOTE]
Self preservation is always your fucking responsibility. It's always up to you to take precautions. In every situation. Lock your doors. Your car. Look both ways before crossing a street. Wear a hard hat in places where something might fall on your head.
Just care about your fucking safety. How the fuck is it a bad thing to advocate minimizing your chances of getting hurt, in this case raped?
And just please for fuck's sake. Don't confuse responsibility to take precautions with responsibility not to get raped. Refer to 5:45 if you have problems understanding this.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42443168][video=youtube;KC6OdlgxsNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC6OdlgxsNI[/video]
here's my unstructured reply to a video that nearly gave me brain cancer from how stupid it is[/QUOTE]
Christ you missed even those points that he explained for the second time in this very video.
Is there any evidence that clothing affects the chance of being raped? If not then how can it be considered a precaution?
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42443252]Is there any evidence that clothing affects the chance of being raped? If not then how can it be considered a precaution?[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.consented.ca/myths/provocative-clothing-is-a-risk-factor/"]It doesn't[/URL] — that's the best part about those so-called precautions.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443227]1. Stop making it look like clothing is the only factor in here. Nobody said that. TF even said that even if you take all precautions possible you can still be raped.
2. You think that there aren't rapes that happen out of lust? For instance a guy buying drinks for a girl in order to make her so drunk she won't refuse? Yes most of the time it's to dominate, but that's kinda irrelevant since he was talking only about those that happen out of lust. And while there isn't much you control when you get raped by someone you trusted, you do control SOME factors when it comes to strangers.
Again TF even said that even if you take all precautions possible you can still be raped. Taking precautions is not the way you stop rapes from happening. It's just a smart thing to do as long as the problem exist.
Self preservation is always your fucking responsibility. It's always up to you to take precautions. In every situation. Lock your doors. Your car. Look both ways before crossing a street. Wear a hard hat in places where something might fall on your head.
Just care about your fucking safety. How the fuck is it a bad thing to advocate minimizing your chances of getting hurt, in this case raped?
And just please for fuck's sake. Don't confuse responsibility to take precautions with responsibility not to get raped. Refer to 5:45 if you have problems understanding this.
Christ you missed even those points that he explained for the second time in this very video.[/QUOTE]
list some realistic "precautions" then, instead of comparing women to cars and houses
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42443168][video=youtube;KC6OdlgxsNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC6OdlgxsNI[/video]
here's my unstructured reply to a video that nearly gave me brain cancer from how stupid it is[/QUOTE]
I kinda expected it to be a reply to "Why 'Femnism' is poisoning athiesm (part 5)"
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42443302][URL="http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=djglp"]It doesn't[/URL] — that's the best part about those "precautions".[/QUOTE]
And this is why it's bullshit to blame the victim - realistic precautions would be things like not to go into dark alleys in the middle of the night I guess, but that's common sense and goes for both men and women.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443227]And while there isn't much you control when you get raped by someone you trusted, you do control SOME factors when it comes to strangers. [/QUOTE]
like what? there are no women that just think "oh i'm going to go into that one really horrible part of town completely of my own volition, yes that's a good idea." going to those kinds of places is something that EVERYONE tries to avoid, yet as you may have noticed it doesn't seem to be helping much
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42443168][video=youtube;KC6OdlgxsNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC6OdlgxsNI[/video]
here's my unstructured reply to a video that nearly gave me brain cancer from how stupid it is[/QUOTE]
Victim blaming is indeed wrong, but discouraging people from taking precautions is not. If there's a chance that wearing some more closed clothing may reduce the chances of rape then it should be considered, but it shouldn't be expected. Discouraging people from at least attempting to make themselves a less appealing victim is silly, victim blaming is also silly, I think you've missed his points as well honestly.
I think the issue here is on a communications level, people aren't understanding what the other part says in the way it was meant to be understood.
Before anyone questions, I don't know how much these precautions help, but if there's evidence for any then it should for sure be considered.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42443306]list some realistic "precautions" then, instead of comparing women to cars and houses[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind we're talking about rapes that happen out of lust by a stranger.
Don't get shitfaced because the likelihood of there being some asshole who'll try to take advantage of you rises if you do that. If you want to get shitfaced, take someone with you who'll take care of you. Don't accept drinks from strangers. Don't invite a drunk guy to your house that you don't really know or go to his place. Don't go to places where you'll be all alone at night etc.
Now I'm not implying that women don't already know that and do that. Or that if they choose not to do that, it's their fault if they get raped. And I'm certainly not implying this is a fix to the problem.
[QUOTE=jesse1412;42443364]Victim blaming is indeed wrong, but discouraging people from taking precautions is not. If there's a chance that wearing some more closed clothing may reduce the chances of rape then it should be considered, but it shouldn't be expected. Discouraging people from at least attempting to make themselves a less appealing victim is silly, victim blaming is also silly, I think you've missed his points as well honestly.
I think the issue here is on a communications level, people aren't understanding what the other part says in the way it was meant to be understood.
Before anyone questions, I don't know how much these precautions help, but if there's evidence for any then it should for sure be considered.[/QUOTE]
women are most likely to be raped by people they know. should women stop knowing people?
[QUOTE=Cone;42443340]like what? there are no women that just think "oh i'm going to go into that one really horrible part of town completely of my own volition, yes that's a good idea." going to those kinds of places is something that EVERYONE tries to avoid, yet as you may have noticed it doesn't seem to be helping much[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you even saying. That not going to a really horrible part of town doesn't change the chance of you getting hurt? But you just said everyone tries to avoid that like it is a reasonable thing and everyone does that.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42443389]women are most likely to be raped by people they know. should women stop knowing people?[/QUOTE]
Hint: Maybe it's one of those things that you can't control? Good strawman tho.
hey lol silly sil is here
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443414]Hint: Maybe it's one of those things that you can't control? Good strawman tho.[/QUOTE]
how is that a strawman
I asked a question
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443385]Keep in mind we're talking about rapes that happen out of lust by a stranger.
Don't get shitfaced because the likelihood of there being some asshole who'll try to take advantage of you rises if you do that. If you want to get shitfaced, take someone with you who'll take care of you. Don't accept drinks from strangers. Don't invite a drunk guy to your house that you don't really know or go to his place. Don't go to places where you'll be all alone at night etc.
Now I'm not implying that women don't already know that and do that. Or that if they choose not to do that, it's their fault if they get raped. And I'm certainly not implying this is a fix to the problem.[/QUOTE]
"rape via lust" is really... stupid.
It's not so black and white.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42443459]how is that a strawman
I asked a question[/QUOTE]
His point is not every variable possible is something that can be considered avoidable.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;42443444]hey lol silly sil is here[/QUOTE]
"Hey lol misogynists stop advocating minimizing chances of getting hurt. Everybody should just do what they want and ignore the danger."
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443385]Keep in mind we're talking about rapes that happen out of lust by a stranger.
Don't get shitfaced because the likelihood of there being some asshole who'll try to take advantage of you rises if you do that. If you want to get shitfaced, take someone with you who'll take care of you. Don't accept drinks from strangers. Don't invite a drunk guy to your house that you don't really know or go to his place. Don't go to places where you'll be all alone at night etc.
Now I'm not implying that women don't already know that and do that. Or that if they choose not to do that, it's their fault if they get raped. And I'm certainly not implying this is a fix to the problem.[/QUOTE]
But [I]when[/I] do you take these precautions? You take precautions when you expect something to go wrong - you look both ways [I]when[/I] you are about to cross a road, you wear a helmet [I]when[/I] you go motorcycling.
You don't know when you are gonna be raped. Does that mean you should bring someone with you all the time, never ever accept drinks from strangers, never leave your fucking house?
[editline]7th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443414]What the fuck are you even saying. That not going to a really horrible part of town doesn't change the chance of you getting hurt? But you just said everyone tries to avoid that like it is a reasonable thing and everyone does that.[/QUOTE]
Ofcourse, I don't think there is anybody out there who doesn't know that going to dangerous places is a bad thing - but what if you have to go through there cause you gotta go home after you've been to a friend or you're in a hurry and it's the quickest way? Do you simply never go there?
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42443459]how is that a strawman
I asked a question[/QUOTE]
You are overblowing the argument and refuting that in a sarcastic way. What do you not understand about there being some factors that you control to an extend and those that you can't? That taking precautions isn't a fix to the problem. That even if you take precautions you can get raped. That your own safety is your responsibility, always. And that it's never the womans fault for getting raped, even if she didn't take precautions?
[QUOTE=Brt5470;42443464]"rape via lust" is really... stupid.
It's not so black and white.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry I wasn't the one saying that rapes never happen because of lust. There are men who pray on drunk girls and take advantage of them. Do you really think that all of them want to hurt women by dominating them or there are some that do it mostly because they are horny (and shitty people)?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443465]Hey lol misogynists stop advocating minimizing chances of getting hurt.[/QUOTE]
You can't minimize chances of getting hurt when that "chance" lies entirely in the hands of someone else; [I]the person who hurts you.[/I]
You even admit that yourself:
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443491]That even if you take precautions you can get raped.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42443492]You can't minimize chances of getting hurt when that "chance" lies entirely in the hands of someone else; [I]the person who hurts you.[/I][/QUOTE]
What do you think about Thunderfoots example of murder? Murder is illegal, and is relatively speaking seen as a bad thing by most societies. Do you think that's a relevant example to the topic? The danger lies entirely in the hands of the person who is out to hurt you.
I watched your video but I wondered what you thought of that.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42443491]I'm sorry I wasn't the one saying that rapes never happen because of lust. There are men who pray on drunk girls and take advantage of them. Do you really think that all of them want to hurt women by dominating them or there are some that do it mostly because they are horny (and shitty people)?[/QUOTE]
I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;42443389]women are most likely to be raped by people they know. should women stop knowing people?[/QUOTE]
This is just nit picking honestly; IF there is a precaution that can be achieved and it is PRACTICAL then it should be considered, again I'm not saying it should be done or expected, it just shouldn't be discouraged.
I think it's gross how people would argue that if there is a subtle precaution available then it should be bashed down. No one wants rapes and we shouldn't discourage protective measures just because some dumb assholes will use a lack of these available precautions as an excuse to blame the victim or because the precautions inconvenience the victim. All I'm saying is if someone wants to take an extra step to attempt to reduce their risk of getting raped then let them and don't discourage them.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42443479]But [I]when[/I] do you take these precautions? You take precautions when you expect something to go wrong - you look both ways [I]when[/I] you are about to cross a road, you wear a helmet [I]when[/I] you go motorcycling.
You don't know when you are gonna be raped. Does that mean you should bring someone with you all the time, never ever accept drinks from strangers, never leave your fucking house?[/QUOTE]
You don't expect there to be men at a club who just fucking wait for a drunk girl to take advantage of?
You can't expect getting raped by someone you trust so indeed you can't take precautions, but there are situations where you can expect the danger (not necessarly only rape).
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42443479]Ofcourse, I don't think there is anybody out there who doesn't know that going to dangerous places is a bad thing - but what if you have to go through there cause you gotta go home after you've been to a friend or you're in a hurry and it's the quickest way? Do you simply never go there?[/QUOTE]
There are times where the factors you control are minimal. There are times where they aren't. The point of taking precautions isn't to fix the problem but only to minimize your chances of getting hurt. And sometimes there isn't anything you can do too.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42443492]You can't minimize chances of getting hurt when that "chance" lies entirely in the hands of someone else; [I]the person who hurts you.[/I]
You even admit that yourself:[/QUOTE]
I don't think you know what "minimizing chances" means. It doesn't mean "making you 100% safe".
[QUOTE=Brt5470;42443544]I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying that there are rapes that happen out of lust. And that against those you can take precautions as it's a danger that can be predicted. Rapes done by someone you trust or/and to dominate can't, so we're not talking about them.
lmao at people who think rape actually happens when skimpily dressed drunk women stumble into the wrong part of town
you people need to sit down in some rape support group session one day and actually listen to how and why it happens before you start agreeing with dumb youtube videos.
How would everyone here suggest we stop the rapists in question? We already have laws and consequences and I can't think of much else we can do to stop them, at least for people who have already adopted the mentality of a rapist. I mean it's as much common sense as anything else, like walking out alone at night is riskier than being with friends/being in broad daylight. I'm not saying it's your fault if you get raped, because OFC that's controlled by the rapist, but if you want to be safer then there are precautions you can take like those aforementioned. I'm not saying you have to always follow precautions; I'm not going to walk around with a bulletproof vest because I'm worried I might get shot. It's entirely your choice if you want to be safer, but you can never completely remove the risk, only lower the chances. As such, it's never your fault if you get raped, but I'm not saying you deserve it if I say there are things you can do to reduce the chances of it happening (albeit not by much).
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42443825]lmao at people who think rape actually happens when skimpily dressed drunk women stumble into the wrong part of town
you people need to sit down in some rape support group session one day and actually listen to how and why it happens before you start agreeing with dumb youtube videos.[/QUOTE]
I thought it happens for a number of reasons, one of them being men who wait for drunk (easy) girls at a club to take advantage of or in different situations with strangers? And that's what this was about?
"Teach people not to rape" is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
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