Super Friendly Social and Love Advice v7 - Bro just do it, She prob likes you - General

[QUOTE=cheesylard;50202801]No.[/QUOTE] why not [editline]26th April 2016[/editline] what are you saying no to? are you saying you couldn't have talked to her the whole time you were there? are you saying planning out entire conversations is the way to go?

I usually just lurk, but I feel like contributing something too. This is going to be a rambling "bar monologue" post, with a bittersweet ending. Also pardon my slightly weird style of narration. I will split in into parts though so it's easier to read. [u]Intro:[/u] Three-ish weeks ago I met a girl in my program. Tall, strong, confident (and super cute), but a bit of a loner. I've seen her before, but didn't really pay much attention. Somehow during break in the lecture we end up talking and she gets my curiosity, but not quite my attention. Fast forward to pre-exam time. My two friends and I like to study for exams in this nice quiet neighborhood bar. Turned out this girl lives in the same area, within walking distance in fact. So, naturally, since we're all in the same course, my buddy proposed we all gather up and study. We did, it was a productive and fun time. We leave the bar, my friends walk one way, myself and this girl the other. Common sense and good manners kicked in, I offered to walk her home. She agrees, we have a nice conversation. Turned out she's a country girl who moved to the city. She's honest, straightforward and seems to have that confident "no bullshit" attitude which I haven't encountered that often and find very attractive. I walk her home, we end up talking for an hour about this and that. We hugged (she went for it) and parted ways. [u]Preparations:[/u] Two days later, we have our last class together. At the end of it I decide "eh, what the hell, let's give it a go", I casually ask her out. She says she doesn't have her work schedule for that particular day, but her birthday is coming up and that I am welcome to join her and her friends. I think "arright, probably just deflected my proposal with a safer option for now, where she wouldn't have to deal with me directly, but she is curious and not opposed to the idea of having me around". She goes to hug me again. I don't see her do that with her other friends, male or female, and we barely spent any time together, that's what confused me, I thought she's just more of a hug person. I'm really just reading too much into it, because I don't consider hugs a casual way of goodbye between a guy and a girl (maybe I'll get more hugs if I open up to the idea lol). Birthday party was great, met some of her friends, got along with them just fine, had a fun time. (tequila, man, fun shit!) Didn't get to talk to Her though, since she was busy running around talking to everyone (in fact at the end of the night she was so exhausted that she fell asleep and her roommate told us she'll take care of her :D ). After that exam we studied for I approach her again. I figure since I never got a definite no or an indication that it can potentially be a no, why not try again?. I remind her about my offer and she says that she's up and would love to go out. So I start planning. Wanted to check out some new places for a while, so I grab two of my other buddies and we go bar hopping, mostly just to discover places, though we did try some nice craft beers. Sadly those bars weren't by any stretch dating bars (even though I saw them on a few "top 10 dating places" lists). I knew about a place which a friend of mine recommended a while back, but I've never been there, only seen it from outside and it seemed classy enough (also reviews were good). Done, made a reservation, told the girl, everything's planned, great. [u]Date:[/u] The day comes (yesterday, 24th). I meet her in front of the place. She's gorgeous, you could tell she spent a while making sure she looks good, I'm sure my heart skipped a beat when I saw her walk around that corner :). We go in, the place is very nice and is great for a date. Waiter is a sweetheart, drinks are awesome. Turns out she also works as a waitress in a restaurant, so she knew her way around a menu and drinks way better than I did, so I followed her lead. We talk about school, families, little bit of politics and people, things we like, the usual. Everything is going great, she's open and positive, we are both interested in the conversation. I'm losing my roof at this point a little bit, she's so cute and funny and very open. Eventually we pay our bill and walk to this little court amidst the apartment highrises (downtown Toronto, lots of those, especially around College station). It's actually quite a view, myriads of windows going up to the sky, pretty romantic in that "urban jungle" kind of way. We sit on one of the tables and talk in a more flirty way. She responds positively, conversation flows, everything feels just right, like we both really connected. It's kinda chilly at that point, so I joke about how she's sitting there just in a blazer and I'm in my leather jacket and cold. I playfully put my arm around her and find that she's not into it at all, in fact she's distant even though the talk is opposite. The "oh shit" moment hits me, but it's already too late. Before I can figure out whether she's playing hard to get, in a really sweet way she says I'm a great guy and all, but she's not interested in continuing this after tonight, though she really enjoys my company and it's up to me how I want to proceed, as friends or just part ways. She's very direct and honest about it, no mind games (in fact we established early on that neither of us likes mind games). The masks are off, I'm at a loss (well what the hell, everything was going perfectly fine, I thought there was some chemistry building up) and she's comforting me, pulling the whole "it's not you, it's me, you're a great guy" and all. She pecks me on the cheek after I jokingly tell her I went on a scouting op with my buddies to find a good place (- "I really appreciate the effort... Don't take it in the wrong way, but...*peck*). We walk to the subway with a friendly general conversation about relationships, then go each our separate way. When I get home I text her that I feel the night was great and I really enjoyed it (I did). She texts back saying she enjoyed it too and we both seem to end on a really friendly note. [u]After thoughts:[/u] I am generally pretty confident and direct when it comes to asking girls out. If I see one that I like and we have a good conversation and I feel like there could be something more, I'll ask her out. Problem is, I haven't encountered any like This One. Usually I am the one who half way through the date (or earlier) decides "okay, this is not my type, it's cool" or if it's a tinder hookup, we find a place to get busy and it ends there. I can usually tell which way things are going and don't get too invested in it, whatever happens, y'know. With, this One...she hit all the right notes and yet I was on the other end of the barrel. In my mind, I'm asking myself "Where did I fuck up? What did I say that turned her away?", even though I understand that sometimes you can like a person, but not feel any romantic feelings for them. I respect a lady's personal space, so if she said no, no it is. I'll back off and we can stay friends (she's really fun to talk to, I wouldn't normally bother). Only this time it'll be hard to let go. It gives me hope though. She gives me hope, that there are in fact girls out there like her, that they exist and I'm not just being an idiot with unrealistic expectations. I'll keep looking, because for the short time that I thought I really had something, it felt really, [b]really[/b] good. We're meeting up at that same bar with her and my two buddies to celebrate the end of our school year. Who knows, maybe I'll tell her what I felt as I walk her home one last time before we both kick off to our busy work schedules and not see each other until September (and if our schedules don't align, not even then). [u]I guess the moral and my motto is:[/u] [I]Keep Looking[/I]. Happiness won't find you on its own, and crying "I can't find The One" while doing jack shit about finding her\him is not going to help you. You can wait until you're 30 and maybe find someone kinda close to your dream, or you can actively look and find someone perfect in a way that you didn't even realize. And don't get too worked up about your personality and showing yourself to the other person. As a wise man on reddit once said: "You have to be yourself and trust that there is someone out there who is gonna love the shit out of you for being you." Hi :). I'm Bear and you guys seem cool. I'll stick around if you don't mind :D.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50202896]why not [editline]26th April 2016[/editline] what are you saying no to? are you saying you couldn't have talked to her the whole time you were there? are you saying planning out entire conversations is the way to go?[/QUOTE] Just no to the whole thing, dude. I don't think like that. Going in with no game plan is dumb. Obviously I wasn't going to follow that script to a T. To everyone I rated friendly: thanks. I'll stop considering the "are you single?" approach; it does seem kinda polarizing. Looking back on it now, I should have just waited right there at my stool until her order came, to guarantee me leaving at the same time as her. Going to the bathroom was probably my downfall. As for the ice breaker: talk about her order taking forever, or her hair, or some shit. As for approaching her inside the In-N-Out, it'd only be suave if I also just made an order, but she definitely saw me eating. I couldn't think of a way of approaching her without it seeming somewhat forced. :/ [editline]25th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=B E A R;50202965]-long-[/QUOTE] Thanks for posting this. It gives me hope. I wish I could have your positive attitude, lol.

[QUOTE=cheesylard;50203008]Just no to the whole thing, dude. I don't think like that. Going in with no game plan is dumb. Obviously I wasn't going to follow that script to a T. To everyone I rated friendly: thanks. I'll stop considering the "are you single?" approach; it does seem kinda polarizing. Looking back on it now, I should have just waited right there at my stool until her order came, to guarantee me leaving at the same time as her. Going to the bathroom was probably my downfall. As for the ice breaker: talk about her order taking forever, or her hair, or some shit. As for approaching her inside the In-N-Out, it'd only be suave if I also just made an order, but she definitely saw me eating. I couldn't think of a way of approaching her without it seeming somewhat forced. :/[/QUOTE] stop following fucking pickup artists they prey on inexperienced people like yourself who are looking for easy answers (ie stupid memorized lines)

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203070]stop following fucking pickup artists they prey on inexperienced people like yourself who are looking for easy answers (ie stupid memorized lines)[/QUOTE] I don't?

Approaching women doesn't have to be made into a science. Just don't be creepy, as with any social interaction??

"going in with no game plan" isn't dumb, it's called normal human interaction

[QUOTE=cheesylard;50203008]As for approaching her inside the In-N-Out, it'd only be suave if I also just made an order, but she definitely saw me eating. I couldn't think of a way of approaching her without it seeming somewhat forced. :/.[/QUOTE] Something that might be worth pointing out is that.. If you're asking her out, she's going to know you're interested in her anyway, so who cares? You're basically saying "I don't want to walk up and let her know I'm attracted to her.. As I ask her out on a date". There's nothing inherently weird about approaching someone in public and striking up a conversation, if anything it just shows confidence. Having some grandiose excuse to fall back on and explain yourself with is just unnecessary. No matter what scheme you hatch to suavely approach her, I assume she's going to know pretty much instantly why you're approaching her. [editline]26th April 2016[/editline] Also I feel like you guys are being a little too harsh honestly. I mean, the fact that he went to the effort of drawing a diagram of an In-N-Out is pretty funny and ridiculous, but I don't think he's really said or done anything super creepy. Are you going to pretend you've never been nervous or confused about approaching a stranger in public?

you call 2 glances "a pretty good sign" and your big plan is holding the door open for her. now you're going on about how ordering something just to talk to a chick is "suave" listen to yourself [editline]26th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=srobins;50203113]Also I feel like you guys are being a little too harsh honestly. I mean, the fact that he went to the effort of drawing a diagram of an In-N-Out is pretty funny and ridiculous, but I don't think he's really said or done anything super creepy. Are you going to pretend you've never been nervous or confused about approaching a stranger in public?[/QUOTE] shh i'm doing bad cop

A girl looking at you like that [I]could[/I] be a sign, but it's by no means a definite one. Next time you see a girl you're interested in, just strike up a conversation about something. You could even just straight up say "Hi, I'm _____, what's your name"?. If the conversation goes well and she seems to like talking to you, ask for her number or ask her out. Anything's better than straight up asking if they're single, that just gives off weird vibes no matter how attracted she is to you. Also, pickup artist techniques are dumb. Just be yourself, however cliche that may sound.

[QUOTE=srobins;50203113]Something that might be worth pointing out is that.. If you're asking her out, she's going to know you're interested in her anyway, so who cares? You're basically saying "I don't want to walk up and let her know I'm attracted to her.. As I ask her out on a date". There's nothing inherently weird about approaching someone in public and striking up a conversation, if anything it just shows confidence. Having some grandiose excuse to fall back on and explain yourself with is just unnecessary. No matter what scheme you hatch to suavely approach her, I assume she's going to know pretty much instantly why you're approaching her.[/QUOTE] I understand that. But it's mostly about..... the conversation flowing smoothly, for lack of a better term? I'm not really used to approaching a girl so directly like that in public (unless if it's a bar / party). Being obvious like that just feels weird. I feel like I'd start stuttering and lose my train of thought if I went straight up to her while she was waiting and not having a real reason to be there; but talking to her while we're both leaving seems more "natural" to me.... if that makes sense.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203124]shh i'm doing bad cop[/QUOTE] That's... not what I'd expect in a "Super Friendly" advice thread, man.

[QUOTE=TheCactusman;50203166]That's... not what I'd expect in a "Super Friendly" advice thread, man.[/QUOTE] i'm a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203171]i'm a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules[/QUOTE] That's not an excuse, stay positive!

[QUOTE=TheCactusman;50203188]That's not an excuse, stay positive![/QUOTE] it's called a reference

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203196]it's called a reference[/QUOTE] So a reference involves being kinda dickish towards others now? I'm just tryin' to spread positive vibes, yo.

if you want me to coddle him up i'll do it. but thinking conversations are about having a carefully crafted game plan and lifting lines directly from pickup videos is far more detrimental than a snarky guy on the internet will ever be

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203212]if you want me to coddle him up i'll do it. but thinking conversations are about having a carefully crafted game plan and lifting lines directly from pickup videos is far more detrimental than a snarky guy on the internet will ever be[/QUOTE] You can do that by explaining the right way to talk to people, i.e. just talking to them like a regular human being or like any other friend, and not by being snarky. Positive trumps negative on this one.

[QUOTE=TheCactusman;50203225]You can do that by explaining the right way to talk to people, i.e. just talking to them like a regular human being or like any other friend, and not by being snarky. Positive trumps negative on this one.[/QUOTE] I've already explained it, what more do you want? Do you expect me to be whimsical about it? You can't just "explain the right way to talk to people" through a couple of internet posts. The most I can say is what I've already covered: planning out conversations doesn't work because it leaves you unprepared to deal with it not going according to plan. Pickup artists, like the one he took direct inspiration from, would have you believe otherwise because that's how they make money and gain recognition - not through lengthy lessons that teach you the nuances of social interaction, but by giving out easy tips that oversimplify things. Now, maybe he doesn't follow PUAs at all and that was only one video that he wanted to replicate, but the point still stands. Whether these oversimplifications are coming from them or from his own preconception of what conversations are supposed to be, they're still harmful. He's never going to get conversation to feel natural if he keeps relying on mentally rehearsed scripts.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203274]I've already explained it, what more do you want? Do you expect me to be whimsical about it? You can't just "explain the right way to talk to people" through a couple of internet posts. The most I can say is what I've already covered: planning out conversations doesn't work because it leaves you unprepared to deal with it not going according to plan. Pickup artists, like the one he took direct inspiration from, would have you believe otherwise because that's how they make money and gain recognition - not through lengthy lessons that teach you the nuances of social interaction, but by giving out easy tips that oversimplify things. Now, maybe he doesn't follow PUAs at all and that was only one video that he wanted to replicate, but the point still stands. Whether these oversimplifications are coming from them or from his own preconception of what conversations are supposed to be, they're still harmful. He's never going to get conversation to feel natural if he keeps relying on mentally rehearsed scripts.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying you need to be whimsical about it, just straight forward. Talk to people like they're people, don't overthink things. That's all. Yes, pickup artists are wrong. I agree with the points you're making but you just seem to convey it in such a negative way/you seem like you're overthinking it too.

[QUOTE=cheesylard;50203163]I understand that. But it's mostly about..... the conversation flowing smoothly, for lack of a better term? I'm not really used to approaching a girl so directly like that in public (unless if it's a bar / party). Being obvious like that just feels weird. I feel like I'd start stuttering and lose my train of thought if I went straight up to her while she was waiting and not having a real reason to be there; but talking to her while we're both leaving seems more "natural" to me.... if that makes sense.[/QUOTE] I know what you mean, and I used to feel roughly the same way. I guess you just have to try and understand or convince yourself that it's really not as weird or as big of a deal as it seems. Even though it feels monumental and stressful to approach her in public, she'll forget anything short of you pissing yourself on the spot the moment you walk away. Even if you monumentally fuck up and look like a complete dork, you can just say "oh! buh-bye!", turn on your heel and do a little jig out the door and your social status will reset the moment you close your car door lol. Catching her going out the door is a good idea in the sense that you have an "out" if things don't pan out, but it doesn't need to be so precise. You basically just want to avoid having an awkward encounter and then having to stand 3 feet away from her for 10 minutes while you both wait for your food.. So in that sense, you're on the right track, you're just overthinking things by a mile. Walking up as she heads out or as she sits down to eat and making a little chit-chat isn't weird unless you make it weird. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203212]if you want me to coddle him up i'll do it. but thinking conversations are about having a carefully crafted game plan and lifting lines directly from pickup videos is far more detrimental than a snarky guy on the internet will ever be[/QUOTE] You're accomplishing literally nothing (other than damaging whatever reputation you have here) by riding on him for no reason. There's seriously no purpose to posting like this in a thread about advice. It's not like he's Giraffen where we just tell him something and it bounces off his head, there's no need to default to being a big douche when he's perfectly capable of accepting meaningful advice and criticism..

[QUOTE=TheCactusman;50203310]I'm not saying you need to be whimsical about it, just straight forward. Talk to people like they're people, don't overthink things. That's all. Yes, pickup artists are wrong. I agree with the points you're making but you just seem to convey it in such a negative way/you seem like you're overthinking it too.[/QUOTE] A 9-step diagram about how a chick looked at you twice is pretty damn weird*, and even if you can't be positive about pointing it out, you damn well should. *Note that this is [B]not[/B] "no normal person does this" weird. It's not "you're beyond salvation" weird. Doing one weird thing does not define you as a person. When I call it weird, I'm hoping he can see where I'm coming from, which he clearly doesn't if he thinks the problem is that his plan wasn't specific enough. If this sounds like I'm antagonizing him, then I'm sorry. But I'm not being purposefully hostile, I just don't see any other way of tackling the issues I'm talking about without doing so. And I think pointing those issues out, even if it means being rude, is far better than not pointing them out at all

anyway.....................

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50203419]A 9-step diagram about how a chick looked at you twice is pretty damn weird*, and even if you can't be positive about pointing it out, you damn well should. *Note that this is [B]not[/B] "no normal person does this" weird. It's not "you're beyond salvation" weird. Doing one weird thing does not define you as a person. When I call it weird, I'm hoping he can see where I'm coming from, which he clearly doesn't if he thinks the problem is that his plan wasn't specific enough. If this sounds like I'm antagonizing him, then I'm sorry. But I'm not being purposefully hostile, I just don't see any other way of tackling the issues I'm talking about without doing so. And I think pointing those issues out, even if it means being rude, is far better than not pointing them out at all[/QUOTE] But you've already pointed these issues out multiple times, and been told multiple times by multiple people that you're being unnecessarily aggressive and rude? So surely at this point, a normal person would be able to deduce that they might be in the wrong and should change their behavior rather than doubling down and trying to justify continuing it against the wishes of literally everybody but themselves?

ANYWAY............

[QUOTE=srobins;50203441]But you've already pointed these issues out multiple times, and been told multiple times by multiple people that you're being unnecessarily aggressive and rude? So surely at this point, a normal person would be able to deduce that they might be in the wrong and should change their behavior rather than doubling down and trying to justify continuing it against the wishes of literally everybody but themselves?[/QUOTE] Which is why those last two posts were my attempts at making the same points, but less aggressively

last chance before I ban for off topic tbh

[QUOTE=cheesylard;50201697]Okay. So, I'm gonna tell you guys a story and you will tell me what I should have done differently.[/QUOTE] This ain't frozen synapse dude, i understand anxiety in this situation but maybe you could have tried talking to her? Just say hello, honestly it can be as simple as that.

I was on a pretty bad drought after this girl fucked my brain right up mid last year. I forced myself to make a tinder profile and yeah got pretty lucky on there. I pretty much found that I am just like a fetish fuck for weeaboo girls that love the colour pink. There is alot of them for some reason. But yeah somewhere in the mix I think I got catfished into fucking a chick who use to be a dude. Being a fuckboy kind of cured my depression for now but yeah be careful out there people.

So my girlfriend has a big issue about establishing her limits with people. She's too nice to everyone, and that usually means being too nice to the wrong people. and when I say too nice, I also mean having the bad habit of opening up with the wrong people. Letting em in deep enough until she's trapped in a world of judgement and condescending atitudes from those people. She usually comes to me and other reasonable and experienced people in this issue, like her father's girlfriend and such for advice. She had this problem with a professor at her university and I gave her some advice on how to diplomatically sever that trust connection with her, since the woman was being extremely controlling about her personal life. The problem is, she's having the same issue with her ex now, and it's leaving me in a tough spot, because I want to give out the same advice but I don't want the part of me that just wants the guy to fuck off to take the better of me. It started out as her receiving some calls that she wouldn't answer from her ex. It bothered me, but I didn't say anything because I didn't know anything, and she was pretty open about it. She told me right away that she broke up with him a year and a half ago and they didn't exactly break contact due to trying to remain friends/friendly. She was ok with this but the guy wasn't, and he's showing off more and more that he hasn't moved the fuck on. And pretty honestly it's starting to piss me off a bit because he's getting more and more cocky, asking for justifications on why she doesn't answer calls or text messages, or stuff like recalling stuff from their past relationship. For example, he texted her trying to arrange a meetup for some coffee, implying she didn't care for him anymore and wouldn't manage up some time to be with him, which is ridiculous. She didn't answer and last week, I was cooking some lunch with him, he called her asking for justification on why she didn't answer. Last week, I was at her place cooking some lunch with her and she receives a call. She sighs and shows me the screen - it was her ex. I rolled my eyes and told her to do whatever she felt was best and she answered. It was pretty much the guy whining about how she was bad and asking her for a reason for her to avoid him, to which she answered "because you're being unreasonable" and I don't know the rest but it left her in a pretty bad mood. So this week I posted a photo of us at the beach and she told me that he posted a photo on facebook on the exact same spot where we took the picture and tagged her and started to invoke shit from their past relationship on that fucking post. This is pissing me off. She asked me for advice yesterday and I was trying to be as honest as I could without losing my cool, but this guy's a wimp and a stalker and it's starting to bother me. What bothers me the most is that her tendency to be nice to everyone is allowing him to hurt and tire her even further. And I told her this. I just don't want to argue with her about this, but I don't want to be that "jealous boyfriend" that feels threatened by her ex (which I am, tbh). But the guy just keeps going at it. He knows where to sting, he knows that if he insists too much and bombards her with calls, she's going to answer. And I can just advice her and keep civil about it to a certain extent, because she's allowing this to happen. It's not her fault, but she lets it happen, because she doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy by just cutting off contact...