Super Friendly Social and Love Advice v7 - Bro just do it, She prob likes you - General

[QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48974687]"Long distance relationship" is not the appropriate term for what you're describing. LDRs include relationships that are temporarily long distance due to jobs, military service, school, etc. Being in an LDR does not equate to being some lonely person on the internet chatting up a girl 2000 miles away from you because you can't find a partner in real life. That's one type of LDR, but if you want to avoid starting an argument in this thread, I suggest you don't generalize your experiences with one very narrow type of relationship to completely different situations.[/QUOTE] Yeah, sorry.

i know im posting this everywhere but i would truly like some advice. man im getting more and more disappointed about studying audiovisual directing and filmmaking, and its not because im bad at it or its getting too hard for me, its because how fucked up the industry is and how many assholes you have to deal with every fucking day. Jesus christ this is fucking hell, a bunch of pretentious stupid no brainers cunts are always on top of the projects just because they can talk deeply about ideas and concepts, get praised for it, and then when they have to do a little something with what they philosophy about, they have no clue how to get there, thats not good directing, thats just being a good talker, and im hating it. We have this class where we had to show our tv projects and some of them would be chosen as projects we had to actually make. So mine was not selected since it had a little production problem with the casting of the hosts. It was about a grandpa and his grandchild, and one had to show the other tech pieces of his era and teach them how to use them, but they thought it was too hard to get both of them to film for us, so its ok, i get it, but i ended up in this project which, ironically, all my class wanted to be on it, its called "Sticker Knight" and its a web series about a Power Rangers/Kamen ryder like superhero gets stuck in earth when his home planet gets destroyed, and he has to save my countrys culture by making its iconic characters/moments/elements into stickers. So, the teachers loved it, my mates did, hell, i even liked it when i got there. I was selected since my camera work is really good, my cg too and my editing is very strong/wacky and original...like i was told anyway. So we met with the group (4 of us, including the guy with the idea who directs it) and we started talking about the jokes we could fit and bam, surprise, he wants it to be drama. Are you kidding? no one was gonna feel sad about it, with our low budget it cant be that way, hell, if it was meant for kids it would be ok, but he wanted drama for people around 25-35 and that cant be right. SO we spent a lot of time trying to convince this guy this had to be comedy otherwise we will fail this class and he kind of accepted it. We had to show our progress last wednesday to the class and teacher, and saldy, the director wanted to make the scripts himself, so total control about everything. He showed the class his draft for an episode about football, and it was total shit. Drama filled, impossible in terms of production, boring as fuck, nonsensical, fucking disaster, but our class almost didnt say anything about it, because i think they cant tell the guy he is doing wrong, because they, for whatever reason, think he is a genius or something. Luckily, our teachers assistant saw this and told him straight up "this is boring, its not up for what you sold us, the tone is out of sense". Cant say i felt bad, i just wanted them to destroy it so he could see why we are doing wrong. So after this, me and other guy from the group, who agrees with me, sat down, wrote 2 episodes in a couple minutes (we have to make 3 in total) and showed it to a couple random people, classmates and others. They laughed their asses off just by reading it, so we had to be doing something right. We uploaded them to the facebook group, but the guy still wanted to make his own version of them, went alone and tried to write them while we had to finish the suit, he cames back and he just comes with a very similar script, but with worse ideas, lamer jokes and says "this is not your script, i took some ideas of yours" and its obviously some of the jokes we wrote, but worse, dumber, childish versions of them, and we were like "are you kidding?" then, the three of us started redoing the script and it ended up pretty much the same with a couple changes, but i guess now he can call it HIS script right? And adding to this, we are wasting a lot of money, and the producer is a girl who is clearly inlove with the guy and says yes to everything and backs him up all the time, and shuts me doing when im criticizing. Worst thing is it seems like this guy is having the time of his life, and im getting more angry every day that passes. I dont really know what to do at this point, if i work lazy and miserable, im getting a bad grade and of course the fault of everything's on me, if i fight for the project to be actually good, make everyone upset and the project ends up being good, this guys getting all the credit and everyone still thinks hes the best. Its either killing my reputation, or my ego. Probably the project cant even be made if im not in it, i could just walk out and everything goes to shit, but i cant do that, that kills my reputation as well. FUck.

What do people here think about MGTOW (Men going their own way)? Assuming any of you have heard of it. If not, as I suspect, you might find it to be a very interesting thing to google about, though I expect it looks a bit crazy from the outside because what people like the popular 'MGTOW Youtubers' are saying might sound outlandish and go against everything society has ever taught you about relationships. I was doubtful at first when I stumbled onto it myself but the more I researched it the further I discovered and have concluded that it's not simply a rogue band of misogynistic men but rather represented by a number of very perceptive, wise, and introspective individuals. Really interesting stuff that gave me a whole new perspective on all the things talked about in this thread that I had never even considered, but in many observations throughout life had long suspected. Thought I'd throw it out there as a suggestion for people here to look into here if you like and I'll let you make up your own mind about the things people participating in that movement are talking about. I know my word isn't worth much since I'm just some anon on the internet, but I'll reinforce my claim about it with my word here - if you're a very skeptical individual, great, because a search on MGTOW is basically full of results for reading, listening to, and discussing ideas and research which essentially boils down to being skeptical about relationships and the primal psychological differences between the genders. The point I found was in recognizing how our biological instincts make us very susceptible to manipulation to a point where one can make a lot of highly illogical decisions in the name of love/romance and that given the current social structure of most western societies, it's actually pretty reasonable to choose not to play the game of dating and relationships and instead make your own self-worth and self-affirmation without needing the appreciation of others to do so. This whole MGTOW thing personally has helped me quite a bit, such as the several-month long bouts of depression I used to have because I was constantly beating myself up over not having a girlfriend and never having dated for reasons more complex than just lacking self-esteem. I don't think that depression is ever coming back now that I have this self-empowering knowledge. I probably sound nuts. I've done the best I can asking questions and researching many related matters and differing viewpoints in order to try to be exactly the opposite of nuts. I'm just not great at articulating things succinctly so I utilize a lot of words to attempt clarity. Anyway, just trying to help with this suggestion for something to research. Seriously, google it. Might change your life, and in a good way. Make of it what you will. If you happen to arrive at similar conclusions to what I've stated here about the wisdom in not playing that game, just try not to let anything you learn make you become overly cynical as a result of it.

[QUOTE=autodesknoob;48977615]man im getting more and more disappointed about studying audiovisual directing and filmmaking, and its not because im bad at it or its getting too hard for me, its because how fucked up the industry is and how many assholes you have to deal with every fucking day.[/QUOTE] don't walk out, you're in an industry that's going to require you to work shitty projects just so you can build a portfolio and gain experience. it sucks, but might as well get used to it

[QUOTE=autodesknoob;48977615] i know im posting this everywhere but i would truly like some advice. man im getting more and more disappointed about studying audiovisual directing and filmmaking, and its not because im bad at it or its getting too hard for me, its because how fucked up the industry is and how many assholes you have to deal with every fucking day.[/QUOTE] Welcome to real life. No matter where you go, what you change, you'll always have to deal with those assholes. I'm also taking a degree, I live across the ocean from you and hey, there's assholes a plenty on these side too. [QUOTE=autodesknoob;48977615] Jesus christ this is fucking hell, a bunch of pretentious stupid no brainers cunts are always on top of the projects just because they can talk deeply about ideas and concepts, get praised for it, and then when they have to do a little something with what they philosophy about, they have no clue how to get there, thats not good directing, thats just being a good talker, and im hating it.[/QUOTE] I'm in Electrical Engineering. Seventh year in, degree is late as fuck. Will probably take 3 more years to finish this crap. I'm fed up with this shit. But hey, I've made my mind. I have lots of pretentious nerds who think that just because they bought an ARDUINO and own a wide variety of smartphones and gadgets they're the shit. Oh and once they finish the 3/5 years of licencing they already start dressing like Engineers. (It's so cute It makes me wanna throw up) - Blue buttoned shirt, khaki pants and sailing shoes and brown moccasins. Because what do you know, professors dress like that and they got a lot of ass to kiss. But yeah acting like "an entrepreneur" instead of seeking your own happiness and realization in the degree is the new trend. [QUOTE=autodesknoob;48977615] We have this class where we had to show our tv projects and some of them would be chosen as projects we had to actually make. So mine was not selected since it had a little production problem with the casting of the hosts. It was about a grandpa and his grandchild, and one had to show the other tech pieces of his era and teach them how to use them, but they thought it was too hard to get both of them to film for us, so its ok, i get it, but i ended up in this project which, ironically, all my class wanted to be on it, its called "Sticker Knight" and its a web series about a Power Rangers/Kamen ryder like superhero gets stuck in earth when his home planet gets destroyed, and he has to save my countrys culture by making its iconic characters/moments/elements into stickers. So, the teachers loved it, my mates did, hell, i even liked it when i got there. I was selected since my camera work is really good, my cg too and my editing is very strong/wacky and original...like i was told anyway. So we met with the group (4 of us, including the guy with the idea who directs it) and we started talking about the jokes we could fit and bam, surprise, he wants it to be drama. Are you kidding? no one was gonna feel sad about it, with our low budget it cant be that way, hell, if it was meant for kids it would be ok, but he wanted drama for people around 25-35 and that cant be right. SO we spent a lot of time trying to convince this guy this had to be comedy otherwise we will fail this class and he kind of accepted it. We had to show our progress last wednesday to the class and teacher, and saldy, the director wanted to make the scripts himself, so total control about everything. He showed the class his draft for an episode about football, and it was total shit. Drama filled, impossible in terms of production, boring as fuck, nonsensical, fucking disaster, but our class almost didnt say anything about it, because i think they cant tell the guy he is doing wrong, because they, for whatever reason, think he is a genius or something. Luckily, our teachers assistant saw this and told him straight up "this is boring, its not up for what you sold us, the tone is out of sense". Cant say i felt bad, i just wanted them to destroy it so he could see why we are doing wrong. So after this, me and other guy from the group, who agrees with me, sat down, wrote 2 episodes in a couple minutes (we have to make 3 in total) and showed it to a couple random people, classmates and others. They laughed their asses off just by reading it, so we had to be doing something right. We uploaded them to the facebook group, but the guy still wanted to make his own version of them, went alone and tried to write them while we had to finish the suit, he cames back and he just comes with a very similar script, but with worse ideas, lamer jokes and says "this is not your script, i took some ideas of yours" and its obviously some of the jokes we wrote, but worse, dumber, childish versions of them, and we were like "are you kidding?" then, the three of us started redoing the script and it ended up pretty much the same with a couple changes, but i guess now he can call it HIS script right? And adding to this, we are wasting a lot of money, and the producer is a girl who is clearly inlove with the guy and says yes to everything and backs him up all the time, and shuts me doing when im criticizing. Worst thing is it seems like this guy is having the time of his life, and im getting more angry every day that passes. I dont really know what to do at this point, if i work lazy and miserable, im getting a bad grade and of course the fault of everything's on me, if i fight for the project to be actually good, make everyone upset and the project ends up being good, this guys getting all the credit and everyone still thinks hes the best. Its either killing my reputation, or my ego. Probably the project cant even be made if im not in it, i could just walk out and everything goes to shit, but i cant do that, that kills my reputation as well. FUck.[/QUOTE] What I can say about this is "Welcome to the real world". It fits. You're gonna work with people you hate. You're going to see people climb up at total ease to good places because they kiss better ass than you. It's life. It's frustrating, it makes people angry and not want to give a damn. But really are you going to focus on how hard others make it out for you or are you gonna make it easy for yourself? Don't carry the weight of what you can't control on your shoulders. Your colleagues may be idiots, your professors may be hard on you but at the end of the day you aren't going to carry them home with you. So why bother? You want to finish your degree or change the world? Next time adapt. I usually prefer to work alone because my colleagues tend to take all the work away from me and I can't focus. But that's how it works for me. For you, you gotta find what strategies best work for you in order for your work to reflect what you are and what you do rather than to get dragged in projects that make you feel ashamed of taking part of. Those people that give themselves much more credit than they're actually worth... They don't go very far. I've seen em fall sooner or later. It is people like you that wrap their head around what they want that end up, after years, months, of hard work shining bright on the long run. So my advice to you is - Make a decision. What do you want to do? Finish that degree? If so then finish it. Don't think. Do it. Make it work. Believe me, working in real life ain't gonna be a walk in the park either.

So I'm studying at uni now and I quite enjoy it. Thing is, I don't know how much I should do at home... I just spent this weekend revising with the powerpoint presentations they always upload and by reading the book, but I realise that I'm not memorising a lot and the sole reason for that is because there's no pressure. I had this problem in high school too, if I'd revise just because it would 'help me', I'd barely remember anything. But if I had a test in two days? Shit, I'd be fully focussed and able to remember everything. Now obviously that's something I can't really do anymore seeing the amount of stuff I'll have to remember, so what would be the best way to deal with this? Again, I revise almost every single day, reread my notes and make all of the exercices they give me, but I just feel like it's not enough and that I barely gain anything from it.

[QUOTE=Flumbooze;48978610]So I'm studying at uni now and I quite enjoy it. Thing is, I don't know how much I should do at home... I just spent this weekend revising with the powerpoint presentations they always upload and by reading the book, but I realise that I'm not memorising a lot and the sole reason for that is because there's no pressure. I had this problem in high school too, if I'd revise just because it would 'help me', I'd barely remember anything. But if I had a test in two days? Shit, I'd be fully focussed and able to remember everything. Now obviously that's something I can't really do anymore seeing the amount of stuff I'll have to remember, so what would be the best way to deal with this? Again, I revise almost every single day, reread my notes and make all of the exercices they give me, but I just feel like it's not enough and that I barely gain anything from it.[/QUOTE] Don't revise at home, go somewhere else like a library. Its way easier to focus on it if you've gone somewhere specifically to revise. At least that's what I did, there were too many distractions in my dorm so I just went to the library for a couple hours and sat down with a load of books.

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;48978627]Don't revise at home, go somewhere else like a library. Its way easier to focus on it if you've gone somewhere specifically to revise. At least that's what I did, there were too many distractions in my dorm so I just went to the library for a couple hours and sat down with a load of books.[/QUOTE] Ehh, small thing, I always revise out loud, because I just can't remember it by just reading. But it's not a problem of focus really, I'e got a sort of shed in my garden specifically build for me studying (it's next to a storage shed though), so it's not really me getting distracted.

[QUOTE=Ticon;48977969]What do people here think about MGTOW (Men going their own way)? Assuming any of you have heard of it. If not, as I suspect, you might find it to be a very interesting thing to google about, though I expect it looks a bit crazy from the outside because what people like the popular 'MGTOW Youtubers' are saying might sound outlandish and go against everything society has ever taught you about relationships. [/QUOTE] I don't really think that the concept of a relationship is so entangled with doing crazy things for personal validation, and it's always been this thread's mantra to just end it when the sacrifices aren't working, and that relationships should not be in any way for personal validation, as well as losing the virginity. However, and I'm saying sometjing that I'm afraid to since it sounds too crazy, I've always wished for a society with zero gender expectations. Where you are not defined as a person because the pronoun you are called with. People make themselves what they want to be. Of course this is never going to happen, because changing someone's mind about something they've always believed as a truth is really hard.

So I'm trying to give my mate some advice but I don't know what to say. Was wondering what you guys thought. Basically is it reasonable for him to feel upset with his fwb friend (who he's really close/intimate with) because she had sex with another guy at party and then failed to tell him? He said he was planning to ask her out the day after she did it and he doesn't know how to feel.

They're FWB. They're not in a relationship. Though being upset is probably inevitable, you can't put any blame on the girl for it. There's no mention of exclusivity, so.. I mean. When the opportunity arises, some people will take it. She's not obligated to tell him anything, unless, of course, they discussed the "terms" of what being FWB meant to them specifically. If not, then?? I mean it's okay for him to be upset, but it's not okay for him to be upset AT her, if you know what I mean.

[QUOTE=bs8814;48979480]So I'm trying to give my mate some advice but I don't know what to say. Was wondering what you guys thought. Basically is it reasonable for him to feel upset with his fwb friend (who he's really close/intimate with) because she had sex with another guy at party and then failed to tell him? He said he was planning to ask her out the day after she did it and he doesn't know how to feel.[/QUOTE] Sounds like the dude misunderstood what fwb means. The whole point of the arrangement is you have sex but you aren't in love or dating or anything. If he's been going through it having serious feelings for her then he's only setting himself up to get hurt. Its fine for him to be upset but this isn't her fault, would she care if he slept with someone else? I'm going to guess the answer is no.

[QUOTE=Ticon;48977969]What do people here think about MGTOW (Men going their own way)? Assuming any of you have heard of it. If not, as I suspect, you might find it to be a very interesting thing to google about, though I expect it looks a bit crazy from the outside because what people like the popular 'MGTOW Youtubers' are saying might sound outlandish and go against everything society has ever taught you about relationships. [/QUOTE] From what you wrote I thought it sounded like some peaceful little philosophy about finding happiness without conforming to gender stereotypes, so I looked it up and found this on the website. [quote]"We all - females and males - go our own way, whether it's left or right." That’s adorable, but no you don’t. Because a woman actually expects to be PAID to go away and get lost. And that concept is as stupid as making monthly car payments for a car you don’t even drive anymore. If women were capable of going their own way, they wouldn’t publish millions of articles entitled: “Where are all the men?”… and whine on the evening news about how men don’t pay to feed them, or commit to their pathetic asses.[/quote] I hope this isn't the part that you follow. Maybe they're not a "rogue band of misogynistic men", but whoever wrote this FAQ sure as hell is. Sexism hurts everyone. When we lecture women on how dressing a certain way will cause them to get sexually assaulted, we're also saying our expectation is that men will easily turn to immoral acts out of temptation. We tell young girls not to wear short shorts or tank tops because we think that boys won't be able to control themselves around a girl dressed "immodestly". I'm in a women's psychology class in uni right now and a few weeks ago we watched an incredibly sexist Buzzfeed video called "If Men Were Women". It portrays women acting in stereotypical male ways. Every girl in my class has always been outraged at any portrayal of stereotypes of women. My professor who is incapable of saying no to raised hands lets these circlejerks about how "all women are unique and shouldn't be stereotyped" go on for half of the class, but not a single person in my class (male or female) had anything to say about a video in which "acting like a man" was portrayed as catcalling women. Some of the young ladies in my class even went so far as to bitch about how they hate how often men catcall. The ranting didn't end until I raised my hand and pointed out that my ex who was a bartender was stalked and sexually harassed on a daily basis at his work and got laughed at by his boss and coworkers because he was a man being harassed by women. As women we get stereotyped as dependent and needing protection, but a lot of radical feminists don't consider what it means to say we need to protect ourselves from men. We don't think about the impact that the way we treat women will have on the way our society treats men. So if the philosophy presented in the FAQ is something you agree with, you might want to consider what strawmanning the entire opposite sex will do to your perception of men. When you label one gender as different, you imply that the other gender cannot share that quality. When you call something inherently feminine, you say that it cannot also be a masculine trait. Isolating the two genders from each other is never going to bring us equality, and is only going to reinforce gender expectations/gender roles. [QUOTE=Ticon;48977969]essentially boils down to being skeptical about relationships and the primal psychological differences between the genders. The point I found was in recognizing how our biological instincts make us very susceptible to manipulation to a point where one can make a lot of highly illogical decisions in the name of love/romance and that given the current social structure of most western societies, it's actually pretty reasonable to choose not to play the game of dating and relationships and instead make your own self-worth and self-affirmation without needing the appreciation of others to do so.[/QUOTE] You don't need to be part of a redpill organization to recognize this. This is the crux of most of the issues people have who post in this thread. Many people dive into relationships because they are seeking external validation. People do this because it seems easier than fixing their own unhappiness - they've always had low self-esteem, so they try to introduce a new element in their life to change it, rather than try to fix what's always been there. Many people also suffer from mental disorders such as depression or anxiety and either never get diagnosed or choose to forego therapy and try to deal with it on their own, sometimes in the wrong ways. Frankly, it's stupid to try and fight your own humanity just because of some of the difficulties it can present. We are mammals. We are social creatures, and in our society, we are literally required to maintain relationships with others in order to survive. Yes, some people are too dependent on their romantic partners, and some people use the temporary happiness and hormones from a relationship starting to counteract their depression rather than finding a long-term solution. Holding yourself back from relationships entirely because you're afraid you'll become too dependent on one just says you don't trust yourself to handle your relationships in a responsible way. Redpill is not the answer. If you're unhappy with who you are and have self-esteem issues, speak to a therapist. If you're insecure about your abilities to make healthy decisions, speak to a therapist. But if you truly want to seek intimacy with another person, then understand that that's normal, and hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have instilled that desire in you. If you're afraid of getting into a relationship because you have self-esteem issues, the solution isn't to write off relationships, the solution is to work on your self-esteem issues. (Also, forgot to add - you mentioned "primal psychological differences between the genders". The short answer is that there are very few significant differences. None of the "differences" my textbook or professor have discussed have larger than a medium effect size - so, not a lot. A lot of the differences are based on our societies, not on our "primal instincts".)

[QUOTE=Ticon;48977969]What do people here think about MGTOW (Men going their own way)? Assuming any of you have heard of it. If not, as I suspect, you might find it to be a very interesting thing to google about, though I expect it looks a bit crazy from the outside because what people like the popular 'MGTOW Youtubers' are saying might sound outlandish and go against everything society has ever taught you about relationships. I was doubtful at first when I stumbled onto it myself but the more I researched it the further I discovered and have concluded that it's not simply a rogue band of misogynistic men but rather represented by a number of very perceptive, wise, and introspective individuals. Really interesting stuff that gave me a whole new perspective on all the things talked about in this thread that I had never even considered, but in many observations throughout life had long suspected. Thought I'd throw it out there as a suggestion for people here to look into here if you like and I'll let you make up your own mind about the things people participating in that movement are talking about. I know my word isn't worth much since I'm just some anon on the internet, but I'll reinforce my claim about it with my word here - if you're a very skeptical individual, great, because a search on MGTOW is basically full of results for reading, listening to, and discussing ideas and research which essentially boils down to being skeptical about relationships and the primal psychological differences between the genders. The point I found was in recognizing how our biological instincts make us very susceptible to manipulation to a point where one can make a lot of highly illogical decisions in the name of love/romance and that given the current social structure of most western societies, it's actually pretty reasonable to choose not to play the game of dating and relationships and instead make your own self-worth and self-affirmation without needing the appreciation of others to do so. This whole MGTOW thing personally has helped me quite a bit, such as the several-month long bouts of depression I used to have because I was constantly beating myself up over not having a girlfriend and never having dated for reasons more complex than just lacking self-esteem. I don't think that depression is ever coming back now that I have this self-empowering knowledge. I probably sound nuts. I've done the best I can asking questions and researching many related matters and differing viewpoints in order to try to be exactly the opposite of nuts. I'm just not great at articulating things succinctly so I utilize a lot of words to attempt clarity. Anyway, just trying to help with this suggestion for something to research. Seriously, google it. Might change your life, and in a good way. Make of it what you will. If you happen to arrive at similar conclusions to what I've stated here about the wisdom in not playing that game, just try not to let anything you learn make you become overly cynical as a result of it.[/QUOTE] One of my friends says you have to love yourself first before you love someone else.

...shit. I think I hate working in an office. It's 1:30 in the morning and I'm putting off sleep because once I go to sleep I'm gonna wake up right after and then I'm gonna have to drive to an office and sit down for eight hours to do some shit I don't care about I mean, I try to care about it! We've got a function that names components of our platform and I need to change it so that the new names are more idiomatic and specific so that when users go to assign those components holy fuck shoot me I need to keep jobbing because it's giving me the dollars that let me live in an apartment by myself in a city I don't like but I don't want to I want to work on a boat or fight fires or something. I want a job that requires me to occasionally live in a tent. I'd like a little bit of emergency besides the occasional fire drill. I'm supposed to care about my credit rating and car insurance and that healthcare shit that I'm gonna get fined for next tax season, but evolution did not equip me to give a shit about any of that. I don't want to be a responsible taxpaying homeowner with a mid-range imported car and both feet nailed to the ground wherever he lives. This shit is thoroughly awful.

[QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605]From what you wrote I thought it sounded like some peaceful little philosophy about finding happiness without conforming to gender stereotypes, so I looked it up and found this on the website. I hope this isn't the part that you follow. Maybe they're not a "rogue band of misogynistic men", but whoever wrote this FAQ sure as hell is.[/quote] I don't like the FAQ on that site either, which I only found after researching the movement for about a month. My introduction to MGTOW was mainly via youtube. A lot of the people who went MGTOW that I've observed have also been angry because of the legal system frequently screwing over men in divorce situations and feminists completely ignoring men's rights issues and making an issue of speech and tone when they attack things like videogames and claim patriarchy exists in the western world. Many others were actually mysogynistic and aren't really going their own way since they've used MGTOW as an excuse to be hateful towards women instead of just going off and doing their own thing as is supposed to be implied by the phrase 'going your own way'. My reasons were different, not angry at anyone about anything. [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605] Sexism hurts everyone. When we lecture women on how dressing a certain way will cause them to get sexually assaulted, we're also saying our expectation is that men will easily turn to immoral acts out of temptation. We tell young girls not to wear short shorts or tank tops because we think that boys won't be able to control themselves around a girl dressed "immodestly". I'm in a women's psychology class in uni right now and a few weeks ago we watched an incredibly sexist Buzzfeed video called "If Men Were Women". It portrays women acting in stereotypical male ways. Every girl in my class has always been outraged at any portrayal of stereotypes of women. My professor who is incapable of saying no to raised hands lets these circlejerks about how "all women are unique and shouldn't be stereotyped" go on for half of the class, but not a single person in my class (male or female) had anything to say about a video in which "acting like a man" was portrayed as catcalling women. Some of the young ladies in my class even went so far as to bitch about how they hate how often men catcall. The ranting didn't end until I raised my hand and pointed out that my ex who was a bartender was stalked and sexually harassed on a daily basis at his work and got laughed at by his boss and coworkers because he was a man being harassed by women. As women we get stereotyped as dependent and needing protection, but a lot of radical feminists don't consider what it means to say we need to protect ourselves from men. We don't think about the impact that the way we treat women will have on the way our society treats men.[/quote] On this we agree. [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605] So if the philosophy presented in the FAQ is something you agree with, you might want to consider what strawmanning the entire opposite sex will do to your perception of men. When you label one gender as different, you imply that the other gender cannot share that quality. When you call something inherently feminine, you say that it cannot also be a masculine trait. Isolating the two genders from each other is never going to bring us equality, and is only going to reinforce gender expectations/gender roles.[/quote] [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605] You don't need to be part of a redpill organization to recognize this.[/quote] True. But for most people that perception is only going to come with the failures learned from in direct experience. Learning from other people's experiences can help with avoiding making really big mistakes. [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605]This is the crux of most of the issues people have who post in this thread. Many people dive into relationships because they are seeking external validation. People do this because it seems easier than fixing their own unhappiness - they've always had low self-esteem, so they try to introduce a new element in their life to change it, rather than try to fix what's always been there. Many people also suffer from mental disorders such as depression or anxiety and either never get diagnosed or choose to forego therapy and try to deal with it on their own, sometimes in the wrong ways. Frankly, it's stupid to try and fight your own humanity just because of some of the difficulties it can present. We are mammals. We are social creatures, and in our society, we are literally required to maintain relationships with others in order to survive. Yes, some people are too dependent on their romantic partners, and some people use the temporary happiness and hormones from a relationship starting to counteract their depression rather than finding a long-term solution. Holding yourself back from relationships entirely because you're afraid you'll become too dependent on one just says you don't trust yourself to handle your relationships in a responsible way.[/quote] My reasons for avoiding relationships at this point aren't a self-esteem matter like they were in high school but rather now one of avoiding being manipulated by the other person in a relationship into doing stupid things where they take advantage of you. I've observed people in long-term relationships and in dating for as long as I can remember, always watching how it works. Half of all marriages end in divorce and one individual manipulates the other most of the time. Too many people are crazy and manipulative and I'd rather just enjoy my own company and the company of a small circle of friends. Personally, I also strongly do not want to have kids so I just followed that thinking and realized... well, why would I need a romantic relationship with the opposite sex if I've never wanted children in the first place? It serves no practical purpose when I could just simply be friends with people. Romance to me just seems like a dopamine-fueled trick that doesn't have any more depth than a really good friendship. And sex... eh, whatever. [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605] Redpill is not the answer. [/quote] For the most part your response made sense and I didn't disagree with it much up until I read this sentence. Would you rather people be blind to the risks created by the influences of their base instincts? If you want equality I think it would certainly help if self-awareness was advised as something to help with getting there. Unless if I'm missing what you meant by this somehow, but I'm not sure how I could misinterpret such a statement. Please elaborate if I'm completely missing what you meant here. [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605] If you're unhappy with who you are and have self-esteem issues, speak to a therapist. If you're insecure about your abilities to make healthy decisions, speak to a therapist. But if you truly want to seek intimacy with another person, then understand that that's normal, and hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have instilled that desire in you. If you're afraid of getting into a relationship because you have self-esteem issues, the solution isn't to write off relationships, the solution is to work on your self-esteem issues. [/quote] That makes sense. Why I put the idea of going your own way out here is for those who, unlike me, might be having trouble with failed relationships over and over and are struggling with their self worth as a result of it or trying to use that pursuit to resolve their prior issues of self worth. The point I want to present effectively would concur with what you're trying to get to as well then - one needs to work on their self esteem issues first, by going their own way and figuring things out with introspection and research. [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;48980605] (Also, forgot to add - you mentioned "primal psychological differences between the genders". The short answer is that there are very few significant differences. None of the "differences" my textbook or professor have discussed have larger than a medium effect size - so, not a lot. A lot of the differences are based on our societies, not on our "primal instincts".)[/QUOTE] I'd prefer the long answer because what I've looked into and as far as my observations can go without being able to read minds, the differences seem to me to have a very significant effect on behavior, at least in hetero-normative individuals whom constitute the majority of people that might be looking for advice about dating and their relationships. I'd be curious if your textbook and/or class ever mentions concepts like 'Male mother need' and 'Hypergamy' and what it might have to say about those instincts. I see those two things as foolhardy not to be aware of whether pursuing relationships or not. I greatly appreciate discourse and being questioned, thus why I'm asking questions on the points in your post that didn't make sense to me while I largely found it to be reasonable. I didn't elaborate much on the whole MGTOW concept at first because it's complex. It was something that I had to think over watching dozens of videos on the subject by both male and female youtubers to try to understand it fully. I figured suggesting a google search and now I suppose, an afternoon spent learning about it too since in retrospect would be better than anything I could write up but if that poorly written MGTOW FAQ is the first thing everyone sees then perhaps that is not the case.

aaand rejected again getting kinda used to it

[QUOTE=Ticon;48984653]'Male mother need' and 'Hypergamy'[/QUOTE] I saw this this morning and was curious given I'd never heard of these in my entire education. Let's do a google search for "male mother need" - cool, it links to [URL="http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow-mgtow-101/male-mother-310/"]the official website's forums[/URL]! And a post with citations! Wow, this is a neat post - it tells me all about how apparently the cause of misandry is men giving women a free pass because they seek mother figures. Just to make sure, let's take a look at these sources. A couple broken links, links to blogspot blogs, a couple news articles about isolated incidents, and two youtube videos by one individual. "Hypergamy" was easier but it literally just means "gold-diggers" which is a clear stereotype not founded in reality. I can't take any of your arguments for ingrained gender-specific biases seriously when they actively go against valid bodies of evidence. [editline]26th October 2015[/editline] [quote]With stories like the above, the public will see the true nature of females and men will wake up and wise up to all their ugliness. These examples of female dysfunction need to be made known and widespread to help other men shatter the ideal women fantasy.[/quote] Nice generalizations! Looks like a really good way to boost your self esteem.

[QUOTE=Disseminate;48986646]I saw this this morning and was curious given I'd never heard of these in my entire education. Let's do a google search for "male mother need" - cool, it links to [URL="http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow-mgtow-101/male-mother-310/"]the official website's forums[/URL]! And a post with citations! Wow, this is a neat post - it tells me all about how apparently the cause of misandry is men giving women a free pass because they seek mother figures. Just to make sure, let's take a look at these sources. A couple broken links, links to blogspot blogs, a couple news articles about isolated incidents, and two youtube videos by one individual. [/quote] I'd rather be scrutinized in my claims than not. Guess I've opened up a can of worms with this one. Either all the dumb ratings I got are because I'm an idiot or people here are more skeptical than I was when I first ran across this information and it sounds too crazy to be true. Not sure what I expected. [QUOTE=Disseminate;48986646] "Hypergamy" was easier but it literally just means "gold-diggers" which is a clear stereotype not founded in reality. [/quote] Why is it not founded in reality, then? For what reasons is it merely a stereotype? [QUOTE=Disseminate;48986646] I can't take any of your arguments for ingrained gender-specific biases seriously when they actively go against valid bodies of evidence. [/quote] Which are? I'll gladly drop this if I'm wrong, just point me towards these bodies of evidence. MGTOW is interpreting information one way, feminism another way. If there's an unbiased middle ground without an agenda that I've missed that would probably be what I should spend my time on instead of looking into the above two. [QUOTE=Disseminate;48986646] Nice generalizations! Looks like a really good way to boost your self esteem.[/QUOTE] What makes those generalizations inaccurate, then? Are they wrong most of the time? By what nuances are they wrong? Also, I'm not using such ideas to boost my self esteem. It's about making something of oneself without needing another person to do it. If I'm rated dumb for this line of questioning whatever, maybe I'll learn something new because I frequently discover I'm wrong about something I tried to inform myself on because it seems like there's always more to things like this that I missed. Didn't intend any of this to be about me but I guess being called out on my attempt at advice as being based on bad arguments here ended up putting it in that direction.

Feminism is not the opposite of MGTOW. Radical feminism, maybe.

[QUOTE=Ticon;48984653]MGTOW shit[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.vice.com/read/inside-the-global-collective-of-straight-male-separatists"]http://www.vice.com/read/inside-the-global-collective-of-straight-male-separatists[/URL] Whatever you've convinced yourself that MGTOW is like, just remember that this is how you're perceived by most people who have heard of it and aren't part of it. And it's laughable

[QUOTE=Ticon;48986912]I'd rather be scrutinized in my claims than not. Guess I've opened up a can of worms with this one. Either all the dumb ratings I got are because I'm an idiot or people here are more skeptical than I was when I first ran across this information and it sounds too crazy to be true. Not sure what I expected.[/quote] Yeah, obviously MGTOW's gonna be scrutinized. I'm not attacking your character here, I'm attacking the viewpoint you've subscribed to. I used to be into this one youtube channel called SimplePickup which was effectively redpill for babies - eventually you develop over time enough as a person to learn it's bullshit. [QUOTE=Ticon;48986912]Why is it not founded in reality, then? For what reasons is it merely a stereotype?[/quote] Gold diggers literally don't exist as a significant group. Have you come into contact with one? I've known people that dated with a positive being 'they pay for dates' but this isn't limited to women (why would it be, logically?) [QUOTE=Ticon;48986912]Which are? I'll gladly drop this if I'm wrong, just point me towards these bodies of evidence. MGTOW is interpreting information one way, feminism another way. If there's an unbiased middle ground without an agenda that I've missed that would probably be what I should spend my time on instead of looking into the above two.[/quote] You made the claim, you supply the evidence. You haven't given any coercive evidence to invalidate the null hypothesis of "there's no meaningful difference between men and women, mentally, physiologically". [QUOTE=Ticon;48986912]What makes those generalizations inaccurate, then? Are they wrong most of the time? By what nuances are they wrong? Also, I'm not using such ideas to boost my self esteem. It's about making something of oneself without needing another person to do it. If I'm rated dumb for this line of questioning whatever, maybe I'll learn something new because I frequently discover I'm wrong about something I tried to inform myself on because it seems like there's always more to things like this that I missed. Didn't intend any of this to be about me but I guess being called out on my attempt at advice as being based on bad arguments here ended up putting it in that direction.[/QUOTE] Yes, of course the generalizations are wrong most of the time - women don't murder their infant children most of the time, and it's hardly a female thing to do so. Sure you don't need it to boost your self esteem and sure you don't need another person to do it for you. You also don't need to adopt the mentality of hating women and rationalizing it to be 'brain structure differences' that you can't name, in order to be comfortable as a single person. I really don't want to direct this towards you as a person (I'm sure you're just a regular guy) but it's an uninformed line of reasoning and it'll only end up hurting you in the end. This thread is for advice, not bashing, and my advice is that you shouldn't read too much into MGTOW, for your own health.

Since my 'evidence' for what persuaded me towards the MGTOW viewpoint was essentially youtube videos from channels like 'Thinking Ape' and a few others, I figure that means I don't have an anywhere near ideal basis of evidence to back this up. And I can appreciate that I should be the one presenting evidence first because I made the beginning claim, so argumentatively its not fair to shift the burden of proof to you. When I came upon this viewpoint my thoughts were along the lines of 'wow, these people are articulating what I've suspected for years, this makes a lot of sense' when instead I should've been giving more priority to the line of thinking 'okay, even if this confirms my suspicions, are there any flaws in logic here and can I find a more accurate way to look at this?'. Overall I'm just looking at these posts and they seem more reasonable than mine simply by questioning the veracity of my claims, and as I make this post I'm realizing that I'm grasping at straws. I don't have anything to cite for my position other than saying 'google this and that since I'm too lazy to explain it' and we saw how well that went over in my previous posts. A scientific basis for my viewpoint would have been far better than whatever rhetoric some youtuber with no degree on the subject has to say. I'll concede here and concur I don't want to turn this thread to bashing either and will look into this further to see what flaws I can find in the MGTOW viewpoint. I'd like to think I'm reasonable enough to change my mind if its so easily pointed out where the flaws in my reasoning are as demonstrated by these last few posts. I should probably go read some actual books/studies on psychology and extrapolate from there instead of going straight to looking at the conclusions some people in the fringe perspectives came to.

[QUOTE=Ticon;48984653]My reasons for avoiding relationships at this point aren't a self-esteem matter like they were in high school but rather now one of avoiding being manipulated by the other person in a relationship into doing stupid things where they take advantage of you.[/QUOTE] I think it's safe to say that literally every person on the face of the earth wants to avoid being manipulated The number of people who'd think that cutting off relationships with people you're attracted to entirely is the best solution is negligible though

Are there any properly scientific studies that really back up the idea that the male and female brain are fundamentally different? Because I think that the common belief that women are so psychologically different from men slows down the progress towards gender equality.

[QUOTE=Ticon;48984653]I'd prefer the long answer because what I've looked into and as far as my observations can go without being able to read minds, the differences seem to me to have a very significant effect on behavior, at least in hetero-normative individuals whom constitute the majority of people that might be looking for advice about dating and their relationships. I'd be curious if your textbook and/or class ever mentions concepts like 'Male mother need' and 'Hypergamy' and what it might have to say about those instincts. I see those two things as foolhardy not to be aware of whether pursuing relationships or not.[/QUOTE] Going to second what Disseminate said on your last two sentences here. Check your facts before you blindly listen to the psychology equivalent of Dr. Oz. And no, none of my textbooks discuss those terms, because [b]they do not exist[/b] as differences between the sexes. Have you bothered to actually Google these two terms? If you did, you would see that one of them is exclusively used within your website, and the other one is a buzzword being misappropriated by whoever told you about it (I'll get to it later). [QUOTE=Ticon;48986912]If there's an unbiased middle ground without an agenda that I've missed that would probably be what I should spend my time on instead of looking into the above two.[/QUOTE] When it comes to an "unbiased middle ground"... It's called NOT BEING SEXIST. You're stereotyping all feminists as radical feminists when in reality there are several different subtypes of feminism. Feminism, at heart, means one thing - giving men and women equal rights and treatment. The ways that people believe we should go about this are different. Some people forget that men are also victims of the gender binary. Many of those people fall under the "radical feminist" category. Sweetheart, maybe you should do some reading on what confirmation bias is. Your redpill organization has made up a ton of bullshit stereotypes about the opposite sex and provided 0 evidence for them. You have no reason to believe them other than wanting to believe them. You're on the internet right now and instead of just going to Google Scholar and doing the research yourself, you're posting on a forum asking other people to do it for you. Nothing is stopping you from seeking the truth but your own reluctance to question your beliefs. I'll be frank, there's a lot of research in psychology that does not become published simply because it isn't "interesting". When it comes to differences between the sexes, a study is much less likely to be published if they don't find evidence of a significant difference. Because of this, a lot of our findings on similarities and differences are skewed. I read an article just a few weeks ago about how psychotherapy has actually been found to be 25% less effective than previously thought because of the sheer amount of unpublished research there has been finding it to be ineffective - the only studies getting published for the most part were the ones that were able to reject the null. It's also worth mentioning that up until only a few decades ago, many studies were done on males only. Today we have a lot of issues with women having adverse responses to medication because a lot of our research on the effects of drugs were done primarily on male participants. This has contributed to the sexist treatment of "male" being default, and women being a deviation from the norm. Psychology is a very recent field and we are constantly finding issues with the way previous research was conducted that makes it non-representative of a wider population. So all that said... [QUOTE=Ticon;48984653]I'd prefer the long answer because what I've looked into and as far as my observations can go without being able to read minds, the differences seem to me to have a very significant effect on behavior, at least in hetero-normative individuals whom constitute the majority of people that might be looking for advice about dating and their relationships.[/quote] Long answer: If you were to look at a man's brain and a woman's brain, you would hardly be able to tell them apart. The only significant difference is that a man's brain is slightly larger, and also has slightly larger ventricles (empty spaces within the brain). So in terms of actual brain mass, they're pretty damn close to equal. Another "difference" is the number of dendritic spines on neurons (dendritic spines are involved in the process of transmitting signals through the brain). By default, women have more dendritic spines than men. However, when exposed to stress, the opposite becomes true - when stressed, men will gain dendritic spines, and women will lose them. When it comes to gender roles there are conflicting theories when it comes to evolution's impact on gender roles. Some psychologists believe that things such as the concept of attraction and what a person seeks in a partner are based on evolutionary instincts. One of the ideas of attraction generally agreed upon in [URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007YXPNBM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00]Taking Sides[/url] is that men tend to be attracted to women based more on appearance and that women are more attracted to things like social status or wealth. The evolutionary side of this suggests that the reasoning is because women are the ones responsible for becoming pregnant, giving birth, and nursing their children. During this time, they need another individual to look out for them and provide for them. Evo psych says that because of this biological need to be cared for as a mother, women tend to be attracted to traits that would make them feel secure and like their partner would be able to provide for them. On the other hand, men are more focused on just spreading their genes, and aren't the ones who have to go through the difficulty of pregnancy/childbirth. Evo psych says that because of this, men are more focused on physical appearance in a partner, because they are seeking a partner who is fertile and able to successfully give birth to and raise a child. I'm sure you've heard the term "birthing hips" before. Things like large breasts, waist-hip ratio, and body fat (which has differing standards in different cultures based on food availability) are all factors in a woman's attractiveness to a man, because all of them are indicators of fertility and ability to give birth. The other side of this argument says that the ways each sex perceives attractiveness are not based solely around the issue of reproducing, but also are based on how our culture has delegated gender roles. This side says that women flock to men who are able to support them because, up until very recently, women had very few rights in almost any society. Historically, women have been pressured into marrying a man as early as possible and surrendering their independence and identity for the sake of becoming a housewife and mother. Even as this issue has faded out in our society, aspects of it and the mentality that women need to be protected still linger - the fact that we're physically smaller and weaker than men probably helps perpetuate that instinct that men should protect women, as well. That is it. That is everything significant that I have learned in three years of classes on sexuality, evolutionary psychology, personality psychology, women's psychology, etc. As it stands I am three months into a senior level class where my professor is apparently struggling to find any study on gender differences with larger than a .5 effect size (which is pretty fucking small). There are no real biological differences in the brain that cause men to think differently from women. The differences are in hormones and, more than anything else, they are in the roles we impose on others and on ourselves. If you have any more questions, direct them to Google Scholar or to the databases PsycINFO, APA PsycNET, etc. If you're in college they will have a directory and free access to databases. Look for meta-analyses where possible, and I know this word isn't in your vocabulary yet, but try to meet any lone studies you read with skepticism. Just because one undergrad with no peer reviews found that 5 people happened to have a significantly different rate of a certain trait from the overall population doesn't mean that you should take it seriously. Also, some general advice... Being a happy individual involves being secure with who you are and at peace with your surroundings. If someone tries to bring out negative emotions in you, like hatred or fear, their philosophy is [b]wrong[/b]. Not because they're factually incorrect about whatever they might be saying. They're wrong because this is not ever going to be the right conclusion from any amount of information about the world. This is not how you achieve happiness. You don't become less paranoid by reading fear-mongering articles. You don't become less hateful by reading misogynistic websites.

The problem with red pill is that all of its teachings/recommendations/whatever are based upon stereotypes of women that just aren't prevalent enough to signify any sort of pattern Its basically confirmation bias in that you're creating a correlation between completely unrelated events in order to justify a theory that all women are bad/unsuitable for relationships or that all relationships are manipulative. Problem there is you're still relying completely on anecdotal evidence that doesn't even hold up discussing it in an internet forum To be honest I think Guy has been ridiculously patient about all this considering the net effect that MGTOW has had on women who suffer sexism every day already without having to deal with the red pill which is actually just a fuckin despicable subreddit

[QUOTE=killerteacup;48988602]To be honest I think Guy has been ridiculously patient about all this considering the net effect that MGTOW has had on women who suffer sexism every day already without having to deal with the red pill which is actually just a fuckin despicable subreddit[/QUOTE] Honestly, part of the reason I wrote such a long post is because it's an incredibly widespread issue and I figured it might be of interest to others as well. Even though there are redpill extremists out there, there are lots of people of both sexes who believe in the misconceptions and improperly conducted research that modern scientists have long ago ruled out. It's always something worth discussing - people love hearing about all the alleged differences between the sexes, but what's less talked about is all the ways in which we're alike.

Haven't seen one female friend(that I supported when she just broke up with an asshole of boyfriend, like I visited her the next day after we chatted for hours at night when she said she broke up and he cheated on her multiple times and then following weeks just hanged out more often) for a week and we met today and spent some time and even went to a restraunt, by the end of the day she said she was really happy to see me since it's been a week. Shit I wasn't expecting that. ;_; She is wonderful and spending time with her is just so much fun and happiness, we have so much stuff in common that it's incredibly easy to talk about almost anything to her.

So 2 of my friends know that I like this girl (I should really do something but I don't know if she likes me back, she's part of the friend group and I don't want to make shit awkward etc etc). One of them is cool about it and jokingly nudges me or whatever whenever she is near. The other one might as well have gotten a megaphone and screamed it in the face of her every time me and her are in the same room. It's pretty awkward when she's talking to someone and the guy just goes "hey harry, are you jealous?" right in front of everyone, and I don't know what to say.