unfortunately that wouldn't work
its account auth for every launch
[QUOTE=bradley;39499392]Oh god... All FWD GM products from the mid-80s up to the early 2000s were pretty bad. The 2.0 and 2.2 engines were gutless but long lasting until the head gaskets went (~150k). The 60-degree V6 is pretty garbage, the 2.8 were bad about bending, breaking, and chewing up crankshafts. 3.1/3.4 blew intake gaskets and front/rear main seals like no tomorrow, as well as head gaskets. Then there was the 3.3 and 3.8 "Pontiac" V6, which were bad about spinning bearings and leaking from a lot of places on the oddly-designed coolant system (Seriously, what's the fucking deal with the little water log at the back of the heads? Ugh those are a bitch). The "Oldsmobile" made "Quad 4" line jumped time like no tomorrow and went it jumped time it bent, snapped, or dropped valves. About the only good motor you could get was the C20GET, and it wasn't even an actual US-made GM engine, it was made by German-based Opel and loosely used the 122 engine architecture.
Oh, there was also the Iron Duke they used in some of their FWD cars. But that engine is seriously a joke. Anyone who swears by the Iron Duke needs to try out some of the better GM four cylinder platforms before they end up ruining their credibility and lives on using Iron Dukes in things.
Nowadays GM has a solid platform, with the whole "Vortec" lineup (and other engines added to the Vortec line because Atlas isn't cool enough for the US or some shit). But back in the day they made absolutecockups for engines. I mean, they were using tech from 1955 in their V8/RWD cars up until 1998! Ridiculous. Sure, if it's not broken, don't fix it and all, but the small block was a heavy, wheezy, outdated, dinosaur-juice gulping excuse for an engine. Especially in a post-70s world. It could hardly pass emissions and it was so watered down by that time that it simply wasn't fun. But now we have a great set of engines for every GM product, so hey. It's not so bad after all.
Anyways, point being, as far as 80s and 90s GM products, those things are built like tanks. Unfortunately they built the motors with popsicle sticks and Elmer's glue. Never in a million years should a FWD 90s GM car be outlived by its engine -- that would just mean someone deliberately trashed the body or something.[/QUOTE]
Our grand prix SE is nothing but coolant leaks constantly popping up. I love the sound it makes and it's not that bad preformance wise but god damn can the shit not leak for 5 seconds
[QUOTE=CubeManv2;39508702]Our grand prix SE is nothing but coolant leaks constantly popping up. I love the sound it makes and it's not that bad preformance wise but god damn can the shit not leak for 5 seconds[/QUOTE]
Doesn't your SE have the god awful 3100?
I don't agree with Bradley with what I've seen, the only real thing wrong with 3800 is the LIM Gasket prior to 2005 and UIM for N/A application for Series 2 (Plastic that cracks around EGR Chimney)
With the numbers of 3800 on the roads with 0 maintenance on them that are well over 200k miles, they're strong engines. Plus modded they can take over 500whp on the completely stock bottom end.
My L36 had 120k on it and nothing was ever changed on it other than oil & filter. The only reason I blew it up is because I didn't do the oil change in time after I put on the modded LIM + Blower.
By over 300hp though, the poor and junky transmission will grenade itself.
The 3100 is a darn good engine. That thing is bulletproof.
[QUOTE=Ridge;39509475]The 3100 is a darn good engine. That thing is bulletproof.[/QUOTE]
No.
3800 90* V6 above Series 2 = Bulletproof, 3100 = Coolant alcoholics & Knock knock who's there?
[QUOTE=Ridge;39509475]The 3100 is a darn good engine. That thing is bulletproof.[/QUOTE]
With that logic, then so is the engine on my M1 tank.
Hue hue hue
[QUOTE=WolvesSoulZ;39509293]Doesn't your SE have the god awful 3100?
I don't agree with Bradley with what I've seen, the only real thing wrong with 3800 is the LIM Gasket prior to 2005 and UIM for N/A application for Series 2 (Plastic that cracks around EGR Chimney)
With the numbers of 3800 on the roads with 0 maintenance on them that are well over 200k miles, they're strong engines. Plus modded they can take over 500whp on the completely stock bottom end.
My L36 had 120k on it and nothing was ever changed on it other than oil & filter. The only reason I blew it up is because I didn't do the oil change in time after I put on the modded LIM + Blower.
By over 300hp though, the poor and junky transmission will grenade itself.[/QUOTE]
The 3800 is definitely the pick of the litter as far as FWD GM, but they're still grenades in comparison to a lot of other cheap FWD engines. Taken care of correctly though they will outlast the rest of the lineup, it's really too bad they are the heaviest of the lot. At least some of them came supercharged though, eh?
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;39509475]The 3100 is a darn good engine. That thing is bulletproof.[/QUOTE]
Oh god no
They're widely known to be one of the worst GM engines
They sound damn good though
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdvk7-Wl4Ss[/media]
[QUOTE=bradley;39510108]The 3800 is definitely the pick of the litter as far as FWD GM, but they're still grenades in comparison to a lot of other cheap FWD engines. Taken care of correctly though they will outlast the rest of the lineup, it's really too bad they are the heaviest of the lot. At least some of them came supercharged though, eh?[/QUOTE]
More than often a 150-200k 3800 is still considered "Just broke in" by most of the guys that knows them. In a lot of time, a 3800 will require way less maintenance other than oil & filter change compared to other "cheap" FWD engines.
The only real fault on them is the plastic LIM gasket, change it and you're fine for a whole load of time.
As said I've seen countless of 3800 close to 150-200k or above that only had oil & filter changes done to them, maybe a belt, & air filter, nothing else done to them.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used 3800 with 150k or even more on the clock, yet I would hesitate buying most engines(And cars) with that kind of mileage.
[QUOTE=WolvesSoulZ;39509293]Doesn't your SE have the god awful 3100?[/QUOTE]
The SE had the 3.1, yeah. You should know this right off hand, Wolves!
[QUOTE=bradley;39510174]The SE had the 3.1, yeah. You should know this right off hand, Wolves![/QUOTE]
Some SE came with the 3800.
[QUOTE=WolvesSoulZ;39510168]More than often a 150-200k 3800 is still considered "Just broke in" by most of the guys that knows them. In a lot of time, a 3800 will require way less maintenance other than oil & filter change compared to other "cheap" FWD engines.
The only real fault on them is the plastic LIM gasket, change it and you're fine for a whole load of time.
As said I've seen countless of 3800 close to 150-200k or above that only had oil & filter changes done to them, maybe a belt, & air filter, nothing else done to them.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used 3800 with 150k or even more on the clock, yet I would hesitate buying most engines(And cars) with that kind of mileage.[/QUOTE]
200k is hardly outstanding anymore... Like I said, if taken care of they are the best of the bunch. But it doesn't change their heritage.
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=WolvesSoulZ;39510180]Some SE came with the 3800.[/QUOTE]
Only in 7th gen. 6th gen SEs were 3.1
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
ALL DEEZ POSTS
[QUOTE=bradley;39510190]200k is hardly outstanding anymore... Like I said, if taken care of they are the best of the bunch. But it doesn't change their heritage.
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
Only in 7th gen. 6th gen SEs were 3.1[/QUOTE]
No some(A lot) 6th gen SE came with 3800 after a certain year, not sure which, but they began putting em in them, maybe it was an option, but there's a whole load of SE with 3800, they have the V6-3800 badge on the front bumper.
And the Buick V6 is one of the best V6 engine made by GM, it's used in countless of cars, and even in some RWD application (IE some Holden cars and the Camaro/Firebird we got here)
I've been looking at some old cedrics and laurels and many of the LD28 ones have 300k-400k on them
[QUOTE=opaali;39510250]I've been looking at some old cedrics and laurels and many of the LD28 ones have 300k-400k on them[/QUOTE]
Old Nissan engines have one thing, they last forever.
[QUOTE=WolvesSoulZ;39510223]No some(A lot) 6th gen SE came with 3800 after a certain year, not sure which, but they began putting em in them, maybe it was an option, but there's a whole load of SE with 3800, they have the V6-3800 badge on the front bumper.
And the Buick V6 is one of the best V6 engine made by GM, it's used in countless of cars, and even in some RWD application (IE some Holden cars and the Camaro/Firebird we got here)[/QUOTE]
Ah, apparently it was "optional" on the SE. The 3100 being the base engine.
And yeah, they may have crammed the Buick V6 in a lot of things, but they also crammed the 122, 305 small block, 3100/3400/2800, and countless [i]terrible[/i] engines into EVERYTHING for a long while, so the fact that they used it in a lot of things was less that it was good and more that it was cheap to use. As I said, it's just the pick of the litter. The hidden gem in a pile of terrible engines.
They made a lot of power with the Buick V6 in the GN and they brought it back for FWD use later, which was a good idea. And then they replaced that awful 3.4 in the Camaro and Firebird with it in '98, which was the best decision they ever made for the V6 camaro. The engine has potential of course, but it's not like it's the best engine ever made.
I'm not hating on it at all, for a while I was going to put the 3800 in my Vega (guy I was buying the engine off of fell through on the deal). There are just a lot of better choices as well. That goes for most things, though.
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=WolvesSoulZ;39510260]Old Nissan engines have one thing, they last forever.[/QUOTE]
Actually it depends on the engine, the L series are bulletproof due to low compression and general beefyness. But if you look at the E-series engine, those things are exploding boat anchors. The main reason is that they are a slightly upgraded clone of the ol' British Leyland A-series engine, which is a big old grenade.
[QUOTE=bradley;39510331]Ah, apparently it was "optional" on the SE. The 3100 being the base engine.
And yeah, they may have crammed the Buick V6 in a lot of things, but they also crammed the 122, 305 small block, 3100/3400/2800, and countless [i]terrible[/i] engines into EVERYTHING for a long while, so the fact that they used it in a lot of things was less that it was good and more that it was cheap to use. As I said, it's just the pick of the litter. The hidden gem in a pile of terrible engines.
They made a lot of power with the Buick V6 in the GN and they brought it back for FWD use later, which was a good idea. And then they replaced that awful 3.4 in the Camaro and Firebird with it in '98, which was the best decision they ever made for the V6 camaro. The engine has potential of course, but it's not like it's the best engine ever made.
I'm not hating on it at all, for a while I was going to put the 3800 in my Vega (guy I was buying the engine off of fell through on the deal). There are just a lot of better choices as well. That goes for most things, though.[/QUOTE]
There are always better options to everything, there are always downsides to everything.
I never said it was the best, but they did the 90* 3800 v6 right, it's an old and simple engine that made its proof.
They're cheap, you can make good power for nothing on them, aftermarket is available widely, and without good maintenance, they'll still live long.
They should have made Grand prix RWD though, or AWD as they had planned at some point.
RWD would have been cool, and kept up with its heritage, but an AWD Grand Prix with a supercharged 3800 would be the tits. There was an AWD GM with a metric pattern tranny, the 6000, so I'm more than sure anything is possible if someone wanted to build one.
The Pontiac Aztec Came with the LA1 and only the LA1 so they built a AWD version of the 4T65-E for it. Now It was a silly setup on the transaxle it self, But techincally would be the easiest route for an AWD 3800.
The 6000 used the 3T40, ultimately more easy via electronics but terrible gearing because it's a three speed auto.
The Aztek tranny and transfer case seems like it'd also take up more room.
Ya The transfer case it self may be a pain in the ass to accomidate, but it would line up nicely for the existing exhuast tunnel. The rest of it though overall, since W-Bodys already had the 4T65-E with the S/C 3800 would be the same as non AWD. Just Dunno how well it would hold up to the Torque of a L67. The AWD wasn't available for 06+ Uplanders with the 3900, and GM said it was too weak for the torque of the 3900.
[IMG]http://i7.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/dd/57/4e00_1.JPG[/IMG]
Hmm, that is pretty massive. A lot larger than the earlier 3T40.
It's cool to think about, anyways.
I've saved up some money and I'm considering buying a Pontiac Firebird '92 V6. Anything in particular I should know/look for when buying it? Is it a good choice?
[QUOTE=Ridge;39477466]What say ye of my choices?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/h3cJfDVl.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NRrVm37l.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XtJY1Tul.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I own a skyactiv 3 HB touring 6speed manual.
Over 15k miles. Best of 42.5 mpg. Worst of 35.8mpg.
Not one issue, never been back to the dealer. It required 0w-20 which is synthetic oil. So changes can be expensive unless ur like me and do it yourself. Oil pan plug is a 8mm Allen head. Weird.
The volester seems hit or miss. Was on my list of wants, but never got to drive a manual one. Kinda don't trust them. Since they lied about mpg numbers got sued lost and had to lower there numbers.
The dart I like but it's kinda blandish but I like the stripe. What motor?
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34238144/Drawings/doriftu.png[/img]
I am a horribad artist. :c
And speller, as well. It's dorifuto.
[QUOTE=thattaco;39511695]I own a skyactiv 3 HB touring 6speed manual.
Over 15k miles. Best of 42.5 mpg. Worst of 35.8mpg.
Not one issue, never been back to the dealer. It required 0w-20 which is synthetic oil. So changes can be expensive unless ur like me and do it yourself. Oil pan plug is a 8mm Allen head. Weird.
The volester seems hit or miss. Was on my list of wants, but never got to drive a manual one. Kinda don't trust them. Since they lied about mpg numbers got sued lost and had to lower there numbers.
The dart I like but it's kinda blandish but I like the stripe. What motor?[/QUOTE]
Yeah I've kinda shyed away from the Veloster since that post. Was an alright car, but only driving it 10 miles and I could feel my sweat starting to stick to me, even with cloth seats. I imagine longer drives could be uncomfortable.
The Dart in the photo was a 1.4 turbo, but it looks like it's been sold. I'd probably be going with an N/A motor. I want to drive a 2.0 N/A with a stick, but nobody around here seems to have one. Mazda3 is the front runner right now. I felt really in tune with the clutch. Before I even left the parking lot I had a strong understanding of the pressure points on the pedal and the shift range and shifter position.
[QUOTE=areolop;39498583]all my fuses are good... Fuck me.
Now I need to inspect the 4x4 changer, and get my dad (electrician) to help diagnose the passenger seat issue[/QUOTE]
Is the switch electronic, or is it still one of those heated switches?
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=bradley;39499392]GM hate[/QUOTE]
If you take care of the motors(the Small blocks anyways) they'll last and last. My 88 pickup has well over 200K, but I can't say for sure with my broken Odometer, it runs great...other than being weak and slow...but my Dads 96 pickup with a Vortec has 240K and it's still running strong, doesn't even smoke a little bit on cold starts. I'll agree with you on everything else though.
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
I really want a Vortec motor in my pickup. :(
Since you guys seem to know quite a bit about GM engines, how good/bad is the 2.2L Ecotec? I did some looking around and I've seen some people claiming their engine blew under 100k miles, though others that say they're at 300k and it's still running great.
[QUOTE=benjgvps;39513052]Since you guys seem to know quite a bit about GM engines, how good/bad is the 2.2L Ecotec? I did some looking around and I've seen some people claiming their engine blew under 100k miles, though others that say they're at 300k and it's still running great.[/QUOTE]
Again, it's about maintenance. Any engine will give if you mistreat it. The 2.2 Ecotec is a solid, reliable engine if it's taken care of.
[QUOTE=Del91;39512737]If you take care of the motors(the Small blocks anyways) they'll last and last. My 88 pickup has well over 200K, but I can't say for sure with my broken Odometer, it runs great...other than being weak and slow...but my Dads 96 pickup with a Vortec has 240K and it's still running strong, doesn't even smoke a little bit on cold starts. I'll agree with you on everything else though.
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
I really want a Vortec motor in my pickup. :([/QUOTE]
>GM hate
>defends his pickup which has a superior Small-Block in it
The 60-degree V6 is shit. You can't argue with that. Even GM knows it.
That's the only thing I'm trying to say here. I love GM. I have GM products. If I have something domestic I have a GM. I don't hate them at all.
[editline]8th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=benjgvps;39513052]Since you guys seem to know quite a bit about GM engines, how good/bad is the 2.2L Ecotec? I did some looking around and I've seen some people claiming their engine blew under 100k miles, though others that say they're at 300k and it's still running great.[/QUOTE]
The 2.2 Ecotec is a soft spot for me. I think it looks cool, like a 90s Jap lump. And aside from a few headgasket issues I've seen, they seem solid. Pretty much what Ridge said.
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