Battleborn to blunderborn - General

Glad they didn't catch me in the video at 2:38...I was sitting on the far right computer on the left side on stage, playing vs Dignitas in the finals. Netted like $200 worth of stuff each from that tournament even though we were just 5 rando friends that won their competition in-stand, and they expected us to get destroyed in the main stage tournament but we went through to the final because I just picked the most OP char and won the games myself. I knew from the start this game really wouldn't go far, which is sad because I spent a ton of time playing in in press release with GBX/2K people and went down to their offices and they were all really genuinely enthusiastic about the game. [QUOTE=ColossalSoft;50628089]Devil's avocado again: Burch didn't write this game. He supposedly "assisted" in the writing department but the game itself was almost entirely written by Aaron Linde (who, like Burch, has also left Gearbox).[/QUOTE] Yeah this is true, I actually had a conversation with Randy Varnell in their offices about the writing and from what I remember, he said that Burch pretty much had nothing to do with this since he was working on other stuff. The game isn't awful, its just nothing spectacular. One of my main is just that playable characters are very clearly designed with PVP in mind, so half the playable cast is basically useless in PVE, and then there are like 2-3 characters that completely eclipse every other character in the game in terms of damage output in the campaign. Second to that the MP just isn't balanced at all, I tried to give as much feedback as I could in the early preview while I had devs on a direct line but ultimately it felt like there was a little bit of internal conflict over whether some tactics are cheap/unbalanced or just a result of people not being used to playing the game.

[QUOTE=Zeos;50628098]Considering that the "Feminism is awesome" dialogue by that one character is [I]identical[/I] to a really bad set of jokes in BL2, it's obvious he had a hand in influencing it. Which in itself is super embarrassing as in BL2 it was a stupid knee-jerk reaction to the complete backlash of a grand total of nobody complaining about Mr Torque's initial appearance.[/QUOTE] According to youtube comments, it's that character specifically quipping the line when he kills a female enemy. So it's actually snarking about equal rights.

[QUOTE=Keychain;50628057]But it has guns?[/QUOTE] I mean no lootable guns. And very weird ability upgrade system.

Eh Battleborn was a fine game. Nothing incredible and it entered into an already crowded genre, but it gets [I]way[/I] more hate than it deserves. It's kind of a shame the population dropped to hard and fast. The whole thing's just being blown out because it's pretty much a meme to hate it at this point, not because of the actual game.

[QUOTE=Skyward;50628173]Eh Battleborn was a fine game. Nothing incredible and it entered into an already crowded genre, but it gets [I]way[/I] more hate than it deserves. It's kind of a shame the population dropped to hard and fast. The whole thing's just being blown out because it's pretty much a meme to hate it at this point, not because of the actual game.[/QUOTE] The developers, while the game was dying, FUCKING IMPLEMENTED A PREMIUM CURRENCY THEY SAID THEY WOULDN'T. That's bad. That's stupid and bad and only solidifies that Gearbox are completely incompetent. It's like they're trying to be a terrible company, but are even bad at that part.

i really enjoyed both BL1 and 2. always kinda surprised to see people shit on it. i've com to terms with the fact that it was more of a fluke by gearbox

[QUOTE=RikohZX;50628139]According to youtube comments, it's that character specifically quipping the line when he kills a female enemy. So it's actually snarking about equal rights.[/QUOTE] It's still cringeworthy in either context. If the re-release of Duke Nukem 3D has the same kind of one liners then it must be a trend at Gearbox HQ that goes deeper than just the writers.

[QUOTE=Zeos;50628199][B]The developers, while the game was dying, FUCKING IMPLEMENTED A PREMIUM CURRENCY THEY SAID THEY WOULDN'T. [/B] That's bad. That's stupid and bad and only solidifies that Gearbox are completely incompetent. It's like they're trying to be a terrible company, but are even bad at that part.[/QUOTE] Ah yeah, that's fucking shitty then. At the very least people were acting like the game was irredeemably shit before then, when it really isn't. Bad business aside, it's still a solid game.

[QUOTE=Zeos;50628199]The developers, while the game was dying, FUCKING IMPLEMENTED A PREMIUM CURRENCY THEY SAID THEY WOULDN'T. That's bad. That's stupid and bad and only solidifies that Gearbox are completely incompetent. It's like they're trying to be a terrible company, but are even bad at that part.[/QUOTE] Got a citation for them saying they wouldn't? Even though it's a bad move with current microtransaction controversies, they said as far back as last November that they were considering adding them, then officially confirmed they were before the game was even released.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;50628219]It's still cringeworthy in either context. If the re-release of Duke Nukem 3D has the same kind of one liners then it must be a trend at Gearbox HQ that goes deeper than just the writers.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it's good writing, just providing the context. I'd be the last person to stand up for a defense in Gearbox.

[QUOTE=Cushie;50628232]Got a citation for them saying they wouldn't? Even though it's a bad move with current microtransaction controversies, they said as far back as last November that they were considering adding them, then officially confirmed they were before the game was even released.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/27/9214571/battleborn-borderlands-gearbox-software-randy-pitchford-interview[/url] [quote]MOBA games are famous for their infinite hero customizations and cosmetic items that players can buy — which has proven lucrative enough for Valve and Riot Games to support their games as free-to-play titles — [B]however Pitchford stresses that Gearbox will not be "trying to make money by selling hats." He's fully conscious of the user demand for customization, and Battleborn will bring a new level of sophistication to how extensively hero models can be modded, but this will be a game that follows traditional retail economics. [/B]There's an undercurrent in his response that tells me he's more worried about completing and releasing the game on time, and mods and other downloadable additions will be things to address once the bigger task is completed.[/quote] Then goes on to add a premium currency and locking items behind it less than a month after the game flopped dramatically

[QUOTE=Skyward;50628173]Eh Battleborn was a fine game. Nothing incredible and it entered into an already crowded genre, but it gets [I]way[/I] more hate than it deserves. It's kind of a shame the population dropped to hard and fast. The whole thing's just being blown out because it's pretty much a meme to hate it at this point, not because of the actual game.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say it was trying to break into a crowded genre, really the opposite. How many Shooter-MOBAs are there? Off the top of my head, the only other one I can think of is Monday Night Combat and its sequel. Really the big problems were 1. lack of advertising and 2. bad advertising. I and most of the people I know barely even knew it existed, and if we did, we didn't even know a thing about it or when it was due to come out or anything. Battleborn's online presence was just absolutely minimal. And what presence it did have was generally through misinformation, like the whole "Lol Overwatch ripoff doomed to fail" thing. Put those two together, add a full price pricetag and you've got the perfect recipe for a game no-one's going to give a shit about.

[QUOTE=Zeos;50628283][url]http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/27/9214571/battleborn-borderlands-gearbox-software-randy-pitchford-interview[/url] Then goes on to add a premium currency and locking items behind it less than a month after the game flopped dramatically[/QUOTE] Fair enough, but I guess it's worth understanding that this was a year ago and they then confirmed they were both considering it and that it was happening BEFORE the game released.

[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;50628316]I wouldn't say it was trying to break into a crowded genre, really the opposite. How many Shooter-MOBAs are there? Off the top of my head, the only other one I can think of is Monday Night Combat and its sequel.[/QUOTE] I suppose it's better to say it's breaking into two genres, MOBAs and the newly emerging "hero-shooter" genre. But you're right to say there's not many games that combine the two. But I'll agree 100% on the advertising being awful.

[QUOTE=ColossalSoft;50628089]Devil's avocado again: Burch didn't write this game. He supposedly "assisted" in the writing department but the game itself was almost entirely written by Aaron Linde (who, like Burch, has also left Gearbox). I'm not defending the game, I think it's nothing special and is probably the most mediocre video game I have ever experienced (played the beta), but there's a lot of inaccuracies in the buzz/hatred surrounding it. If you're going to hate something, hate it for the right reason/s.[/QUOTE] When a character goes "All units be advised, feminism is awesome!", that's Burch's writing front and center. [editline]1st July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RikohZX;50628139]According to youtube comments, it's that character specifically quipping the line when he kills a female enemy. So it's actually snarking about equal rights.[/QUOTE] Still a shitty snark :v:.

As someone that had no problems with the aesthetic of Borderlands I didn't even bother with Battleborn I can't even begin to take it seriously because it has the single worst art style for any game I've ever seen. I cannot understate how awful I think the character design and world design is, and its nothing to do with me having any aversion to comic-style design because I've played plenty of games that take that direction. The whole thing to do with its plot and the last star left thing is just, well, stupid. When I looked at Overwatch I saw some compelling level and character design, with an original plot idea all backed up by some nice promotional materials. Could the VA's and writing for the animated shorts be better? Yeah, sure it could. But it's still got charm.

[QUOTE=Tacosmell;50627721]It's really crazy that these games exist. The similarities are so blatant you'd expect it to be a Chinese knockoff or something when they're actually made by companies who have in the past released fairly successful games. [video=youtube;0XQJvAO4nR0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XQJvAO4nR0[/video] I entirely forgot that this game existed.[/QUOTE] Paladins has been in development from WAY before either of these games existed. Not to mention their [URL="http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?7629-Paladins-and-Overwatch"]designs were more of a copy of TF2 and Global Agenda mixed, than anything else.[/URL] also Paladins is really fun, you shouldn't rag on it until you've atleast tried it. [editline]1st July 2016[/editline] I actually feel really bad for Hi-Rez in this respect, because no matter what Paladins is always going to be considered "that Overwatch clone" despite literally revealing their "Reinhardt and Yorjborn ripoffs" like a year before Overwatch was even announced. They literally can't win.

[QUOTE=Tacosmell;50627721]It's really crazy that these games exist. The similarities are so blatant you'd expect it to be a Chinese knockoff or something when they're actually made by companies who have in the past released fairly successful games. [video=youtube;0XQJvAO4nR0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XQJvAO4nR0[/video][/QUOTE] The fuck? I thought Gearbox ripping the art style from [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmeP1YkaeTo"]this short film[/URL] would be the end of them taking (arguably) original ideas for themselves. [editline]July 2, 2016[/editline] Not saying like other misinformed detractors that they "stole" that specific artstyle, only that they're wasting time on ideas that others have already fleshed out by now.

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;50628584]The fuck? I thought Gearbox ripping the art style from [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmeP1YkaeTo"]this short film[/URL] would be the end of them taking (arguably) original ideas for themselves.[/QUOTE] This isn't by gearbox. It's by Hi-Rez Studios. Makers of SMITE, Global Agenda, and Tribes Ascend.

[QUOTE=Skyward;50628230]Ah yeah, that's fucking shitty then. At the very least people were acting like the game was irredeemably shit before then, when it really isn't. Bad business aside, it's still a solid game.[/QUOTE] My cousin and I really enjoyed playing Battleborn during the beta, and pre-ordered it immediately. We still do enjoy the game itself, but they keep messing up spectacularly in ways that remind me of the hate that Evolve received. The gameplay is fun and solid and the UI had never bothered me, but they keep doing increasingly stupid things, from adding characters that require an extreme amount of grinding to unlock to adding a premium currency to a game that, at the time it was purchased, cost $60. That, combined with the ever dwindling player-count are both highly demotivating, and I've been playing overwatch while from time to time looking at battleborn and longing for what could - what should - have been. The fact that they still update the game and communicate with the community that it has does give me hope that, at some point, the game will see a revival, but for now, it seems that it's only going to get worse.

[QUOTE=Nanamil;50627633]But Todd is not bad ?[/QUOTE] Todd Howard just is a bit of a PR nightmare because he clearly gets too excited when he talks about his games and oversells them. He's still one of my favorite figures in the industry just for how enthusiastic and recognizable he is.

[QUOTE=Paige;50628590]This isn't by gearbox. It's by Hi-Rez Studios. Makers of SMITE, Global Agenda, and Tribes Ascend.[/QUOTE] I'm aware but damn did they do a better job than what Gearbox did with BL. I also meant "ripping" by not stealing rather but banking on ideas that have already been done.

Video in OP is pretty depressing

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;50628657]I'm aware but damn did they do a better job than what Gearbox did with BL. I also meant "ripping" by not stealing rather but banking on ideas that have already been done.[/QUOTE] Right, but not like there's a ton of room for new ideas in this sort of genre imo. After you fill the usual archetypes and do a few off the wall ones or those archetypes in a different role, new ideas, especially [I]balanced[/I] and lore-friendly ideas, start to run thin. Not to say it's impossible, but still.

[QUOTE=Nanamil;50627633]But Todd is not bad ?[/QUOTE] The only reason Todd Howard isn't looked at as poorly as Peter Molyneux is because the games he's in charge of aren't shite. He's a conman. All the games he's been in charge of since Oblivion have been disappointments and he lied constantly about their development, promising impossible things like Molyneux did. But people will defend him to death because they're hardcore fanboys. Don't get me wrong, Todd is a talented dev and he's been with Bethesda since the start and despite his recent games being disappointments, they still do at least [i]something[/i] right enough to be fun. He's just a liar and he's lately been losing his touch.

[QUOTE=ColossalSoft;50628062][B]Gonna play devil's advocate here[/B]: Battleborn was announced before Overwatch, as were [I]most[/I] of the characters in the side-by-side comparison segment of the video. If anything, that makes me think Blizzard copied Gearbox.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that Overwatch spawned from the cancelled Titan MMO, so it could be fair to say that Blizzard has had character concepts for some of the heroes since they started working on Titan. Also, just because something was announced sooner doesn't mean it started development sooner.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;50628759]The only reason Todd Howard isn't looked at as poorly as Peter Molyneux is because the games he's in charge of aren't shite. He's a conman. All the games he's been in charge of since Oblivion have been disappointments and he lied constantly about their development, promising impossible things like Molyneux did. But people will defend him to death because they're hardcore fanboys. Don't get me wrong, Todd is a talented dev and he's been with Bethesda since the start and despite his recent games being disappointments, they still do at least [i]something[/i] right enough to be fun. He's just a liar and he's lately been losing his touch.[/QUOTE] nah

[QUOTE=Rahu X;50628845]Keep in mind that Overwatch spawned from the cancelled Titan MMO, so it could be fair to say that Blizzard has had character concepts for some of the heroes since they started working on Titan. Also, just because something was announced sooner doesn't mean it started development sooner.[/QUOTE] Yeah, weren't Tracer and Winston ripped almost directly from Titan?

[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;50628316]I wouldn't say it was trying to break into a crowded genre, really the opposite. How many Shooter-MOBAs are there? Off the top of my head, the only other one I can think of is Monday Night Combat and its sequel. Really the big problems were 1. lack of advertising and 2. bad advertising. I and most of the people I know barely even knew it existed, and if we did, we didn't even know a thing about it or when it was due to come out or anything. Battleborn's online presence was just absolutely minimal. And what presence it did have was generally through misinformation, like the whole "Lol Overwatch ripoff doomed to fail" thing. Put those two together, add a full price pricetag and you've got the perfect recipe for a game no-one's going to give a shit about.[/QUOTE] I feel like the biggest problem is just that very few people actually want a shooter moba.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50628926]I feel like the biggest problem is just that very few people actually want a shooter moba.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure I can fully agree with this. MNC and SMNC did fairly well for a time but suffered from a lack of promotion and bad management. I'd definitely agree that the Shooter-MOBA market is not big enough to sustain a full-price triple-A title, but there is potential there for a good, well-supported F2P or cheaper game to enjoy a good amount of success.