[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45675117]if you're arguing against his specific grammatical use of that, then you know that's a weak argument.
I'm taking your arguments as an argument against the concept of finding a meaning for yourself entirely.[/QUOTE]
To say that the meaning of life is the act of finding meaning for one's life is self-fulfilling. That's all I'm saying. There are quite a few people who hold this type of view. So I thought I would respond.
That is different from saying that one can create meaning for oneself. The original statement presupposes that life has a specific meaning, namely, the act of finding meaning. The idea that one can create meaning rests on the fact that all meaning is subjective. They are in direct opposition to each other.
Okay then so explain to me how you understand the true, objective meaning of all things or how you would divine them through your system which doesn't rest on subjective anything, but hard coded objective facts about the universe?
Creating meaning in a subjective universe isn't a contradiction. You've said that to me many times, or many various versions of that statement. Why is it? I don't see it when you explain it. I see a misunderstanding of the method in which we understand the world, supposing that our information of the universe is based on these objectively demonstrable things.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45675153]Okay then so explain to me how you understand the true, objective meaning of all things or how you would divine them through your system which doesn't rest on subjective anything, but hard coded objective facts about the universe?[/QUOTE]
I haven't even attempted to posit that any objective meaning exists here, at all.
[QUOTE]Creating meaning in a subjective universe isn't a contradiction. You've said that to me many times, or many various versions of that statement. Why is it? I don't see it when you explain it. I see a misunderstanding of the method in which we understand the world, supposing that our information of the universe is based on these objectively demonstrable things.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you mean here. I agree that creating subjective meaning in our universe isn't a contradiction.
The meaning of life is to find meaning. Thats perfectly clear, lets rephrase that.. the meaning of life is to find purpose. What does my life mean, what about yours? What is our meaning in this existence? The reason youre here may not be the same reason im here.. does that make?
Why do humans feel like such a priority to believe that their lives have meanings, or are more superior than other species lives? There is no meaning, you live because you live.
If by meaning we ask for a definition then life is simply the arrangement into what can be considered a complex self replicating structure.
Though by meaning it is often understood as purpose or direction to which it is driving. It seems that life, as a whole, has a tendency to exist in spite of death. Life adapts or dies, thus the only life which exists, has adapted. The issue, especially at an anthropological level, is by what standards is a life deemed to be successful? Many people say that it is the sheer fact of existence. But this gives us nothing to class us in any way different to a mollusc or a violent rapist in prison for life. Furthermore there are deeper factors which come in when considering humans, the sociological differences which produce patterns of life and death. In this way, it seems that life is a constant battle of interpreting those patterns and acting accordingly. Thus resulting in an objective 'right action' given that the goal is life. The meaning of life is the do things right, and reap the consequences.
In my view, doing things right involves certain things such as first and foremost an awe,respect,love,fear,and reverence of the force, by whatever name you call it, which brought this universe into being. The issue with life is the many argue that it is in reality just a dead assortment of complex interactions producing a false thing we call 'consciousness'. If this is true of us, then what can be said of the vast complex assortment which self-referentially allows for any and all existence. This object, many have argued is dead, and mindless. Though if a mind is just a complex assortment of interactions which produces a result predictable given knowledge of the will, then the highest level of existence, and it's many functions which stabilize our material existence (physics for a start), is a mind. The issue now is whether it is dead. Refering back to the original definition of life which I am using, then it seems that while this is a complex structure, it must self replicate. However, given that we accept that the highest level entity is some sort of mind, then it is obvious that it has reproduced. For are we not minds ourselves? It seems that the meaning of life is to life out your life in the way most conducive to all other life, in accordance with the rules and boundaries set forth by the highest level entity that gave us our chance at it.
Humans are the only species to question their existence. Must there really be a divine purpose in every single person being alive? What about animals, bugs even? Do they serve a divine purpose? Every living thing deserves the same quality of life. And with wild animals, nature is certainly fair in my eyes. But the life of humans isnt nature.. i can absolutely say there are people who will tell you their purpose is to become rich or have the best car. Which is absurd to me, because you can work your entire life for those goals, but never able to fimd happiness. Thats my outlook on life, you get one, enjoy it.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45674318]I've never understood this line of thought. If that is actually the case, then you're done. You've figured out your meaning and can stop living.[/QUOTE]
why would one stop living after they've found their meaning? that'd be a pretty premature thing to do
[QUOTE=Scum;45683169]why would one stop living after they've found their meaning? that'd be a pretty premature thing to do[/QUOTE]
Because their meaning [B]IS[/B] to find their meaning. Once they've done that, then they've accomplished their meaning.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683228]Because their meaning [B]IS[/B] to find their meaning. Once they've done that, then they've accomplished their meaning.[/QUOTE]
Their "meaning" is actually pretty relative to what and who surrounds them. If you work in a busy city and you didn't go to college, your "meaning" may be cutting sheet metal until you're 50 or sweeping floors at a building or pouring concrete. What is [i]their[/i] meaning?
[QUOTE=OtherDalfite;45684061]Their "meaning" is actually pretty relative to what and who surrounds them. If you work in a busy city and you didn't go to college, your "meaning" may be cutting sheet metal until you're 50 or sweeping floors at a building or pouring concrete. What is [i]their[/i] meaning?[/QUOTE]
Track the argument back to what I was responding to before. The person claimed that they meaning was to find meaning. That's their words, not mine.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683228]Because their meaning [B]IS[/B] to find their meaning. Once they've done that, then they've accomplished their meaning.[/QUOTE]
nah man you misunderstand. that's not their personal meaning, it's the ~meaning of life~ as in like, a broad overview of what one should try do in their life which is find their own purpose and meaning. such as like, wow the meaning of life is i should find our own meaning in it. i want to help people, helping people will be the purpose of my existence. i now have my meaning. im not gonna die right now because meaning is achieved in the doing.
or you have albert camus' idea of absurdism which is that life is inherently meaningless, so you have 3 options,
1: kill urself
2: find an exterior and mysterious purpose (thru religion or other abstract idea)
3: create a purpose for yourself
i think anyway, it's been a while since reading him
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683228]Because their meaning [B]IS[/B] to find their meaning. Once they've done that, then they've accomplished their meaning.[/QUOTE]
Why should one feel compelled to stop living simply because their life is without meaning?
[QUOTE=Geikkamir;45685679]Why should one feel compelled to stop living simply because their life is without meaning?[/QUOTE]
Meaning is purpose or function or otherwise a thing to strive towards. If there is no such standard then there is no way to judge whether or not ought to live. There is just as much reason for one as there is the other. To continue to live is simply to assign yourself new purpose, or otherwise recognize an objective purpose. That may range from hedonism to philanthropism or even theism.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45685708]Meaning is purpose or function or otherwise a thing to strive towards. If there is no such standard then there is no way to judge whether or not ought to live. There is just as much reason for one as there is the other. To continue to live is simply to assign yourself new purpose, or otherwise recognize an objective purpose. That may range from hedonism to philanthropism or even theism.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure most people find life to be pretty enjoyable. I don't really see why living life for the sake of living life means you might as well be dead.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45685708]Meaning is purpose or function or otherwise a thing to strive towards. If there is no such standard then there is no way to judge whether or not ought to live. There is just as much reason for one as there is the other. To continue to live is simply to assign yourself new purpose, or otherwise recognize an objective purpose. That may range from hedonism to philanthropism or even theism.[/QUOTE]
There's no reason you have to have one massively different end of the spectrum to the other. middle ground exists.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45686077]There's no reason you have to have one massively different end of the spectrum to the other. middle ground exists.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how you could interpet my post as an advocacy of extremes. I am simply stating that anyone who decides against suicide has some sort of purpose that they subscribe to, whether it is their own, or one provided by the world. A person's purpose needn't be objective for this to apply.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45686126]I don't know how you could interpet my post as an advocacy of extremes. I am simply stating that anyone who decides against suicide has some sort of purpose that they subscribe to, whether it is their own, or one provided by the world. A person's purpose needn't be objective for this to apply.[/QUOTE]
Why is that necessarily true? Why is a person not allowed to exist unless they subscribe to some higher purpose than simply living?
I believe that the "meaning" of life is to make your own. I don't think we have a premade reason for existing.
[QUOTE=Geikkamir;45686365]Why is that necessarily true? Why is a person not allowed to exist unless they subscribe to some higher purpose than simply living?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45686126]I don't know how you could interpet my post as an advocacy of extremes. I am simply stating that anyone who decides against suicide has some sort of purpose that they subscribe to, whether it is their own, or one provided by the world. [B]A person's purpose needn't be objective for this to apply.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=pac0master;45687719]I believe that the "meaning" of life is to make your own. I don't think we have a premade reason for existing.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, maybe one day you feel like your purpose is to educate children, the next day you may want to help dying people in other countries, life is what we make it.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45689054]Quotes[/QUOTE]
I get that but I don't really understand why the fact that a person hasn't committed suicide means that they find their life to be purposeful. Why can't a person live without purpose?
I feel like there's some sort of disconnect here.
[B]The Meaning of Life[/B] is a 1983 British musical comedy film written and performed by the Monty Python troupe, and directed by one of its members, Terry Jones.
*cough*
Or you could say it's to find one another like you and produce more life.
As according to my Army Colonel Modern History teacher (who is still the coolest), the meaning of life is, "[I]to reproduce....[/I]" with a side of, "[I]to leave behind your own kind of legacy[/I]."
[QUOTE=Griffalo;45600150]I would love to believe this, the only thing that makes me believe otherwise is the following statement. "Who, or what, created the material that started the big bang?" [I]Because there must have been something.[/I][/QUOTE]
As far as we can tell, matter cannot be created or destroyed. It therefore follows that matter is eternal, infinite in age.
In which case, the existence of universes may well be cyclical, and the big bang that formed our universe would have simply been the result of the previous universe collapsing. Meaning, when in turn our universe stops expanding it will also collapse to form another big bang, and a new universe will be created. Infinite universes stretching back in time, and infinite universes that will succeed ours...
Is this concept really any harder to believe than a god who is also eternal and infinite in age, without beginning or end?
[QUOTE]Is this concept really any harder to believe than a god who is also eternal and infinite in age, without beginning or end?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe in any theory that people support because "your theory is bat shit crazy, so my theory can be crazy too".
[QUOTE=mushroompizza;45730591]I don't believe in any theory that people support because "your theory is bat shit crazy, so my theory can be crazy too".[/QUOTE]
Well, if you are responding to Alex's post, and I assume you are seeing as how you quoted him, but he never called the theory of a god who made anything bat shit crazy or even remotely close to it. He stated the idea that the big bang and the big crunch are both equally believable compared to the idea of a god. Don't be a dick.
I go by the philosophy that humans are simply very complex pattern recognition machines. The meaning of life is to discover patterns. That's why we enjoy science so much - It's literally ultra-complex pattern recognition. Fitting equations to phenomena, etc.
When you play a singleplayer videogame (such as Skyrim), it's fun as long as there's new content for you to discover. When you first start playing, you're incredibly fascinated by the world, and have so many different locations and skills to explore. Eventually, you get used to the entire map, and you get used to the combat system. You subconsciously recognize how combat with AI works, and instead of fighting for your life, now you're just following a sequence of memorized maneuvers, taking advantage of pitfalls in the AI's combat programming, etc. Over time you get tired of the game, this is because you've figured out the patterns. Maybe not 100% of the patterns, you're not necessarily an expert at the game. But enough to the point where you're no longer intrigued by the mystery of it all. And at some point you just put the game down.
I believe the same applies to life as well, except our lifespans are short and it's a lot more complicated, so nobody has ever gotten to the point where they 'figured it all out'. If immortality is invented, I wouldn't be surprised if people started committing suicide after ~1000 years simply because they got tired of living.
(An interesting note, this doesn't happen with multiplayer games simply because the 'new patterns' occur in the form of other players. Human beings are a lot harder to predict than AI, and every once in a while a guy comes around who acts in a completely unique way. This is why games like CS 1.6 remain popular even though they've been around for >10 years.)
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45685708]Meaning is purpose or function or otherwise a thing to strive towards. If there is no such standard then there is no way to judge whether or not ought to live. There is just as much reason for one as there is the other. To continue to live is simply to assign yourself new purpose, or otherwise recognize an objective purpose. That may range from hedonism to philanthropism or even theism.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but as meaning is a construct of human thought, we get to decide for ourselves what it means. I think that's more valuable and interesting than theism.
To survive (What i mean by that is keep on living no matter how fucked up your situation is)
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