Language Learner's Thread - Cunning Linguists Welcome.
703 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51545825]I would like to start learning Japanese for business and personal reasons. My fiancee and I have been vacationing here for the past two weeks, and it's been an incredible time! Thanks for the resources in the OP! I will also give a scan through the thread for further help with Japanese.
If you have any particular apps or programs I could use that aren't regularly covered in this thread, I would appreciate any advice you could offer! Thanks![/QUOTE]
if you're serious about learning the language, anki is an amazing tool for building your own decks of vocabulary based off stuff you see written or spoken (theres also an app for ios/android and you can sync all your devices)
anki is especially nice cause once you learn how to use it making a new card takes like 30 seconds, so you could literally add a word you heard in a conversation to your deck, I like to read manga and throw new words into an anki deck as I go.
I'd recommend trying to get a solid basis in grammar as well. If you understand grammar putting a sentences meaning together is a lot easier, even if you dont understand all the words.
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;51546748]if you're serious about learning the language, anki is an amazing tool for building your own decks of vocabulary based off stuff you see written or spoken (theres also an app for ios/android and you can sync all your devices)
anki is especially nice cause once you learn how to use it making a new card takes like 30 seconds, so you could literally add a word you heard in a conversation to your deck, I like to read manga and throw new words into an anki deck as I go.
I'd recommend trying to get a solid basis in grammar as well. If you understand grammar putting a sentences meaning together is a lot easier, even if you dont understand all the words.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure I shill him every page but [URL="http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/"]Tae Kim[/URL] is about as good as grammar guides get ever.
[QUOTE=helifreak;51546757]Pretty sure I shill him every page but [URL="http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/"]Tae Kim[/URL] is about as good as grammar guides get ever.[/QUOTE]
I literally bought a copy of it on amazon cause this shit so gud.
Because Google Chrome decided to magically delete my entire Japanese folder full of bookmarks, I don't really have many resources to share, but I do remember this one: [url]http://kwhazit.ucoz.net/ranma/gramfront.html[/url]
I wouldn't recommend it for starting off, but I think it's helpful once you're somewhat adept in Japanese. I think the explanations are pretty well written as well
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;51546748]if you're serious about learning the language, anki is an amazing tool for building your own decks of vocabulary based off stuff you see written or spoken (theres also an app for ios/android and you can sync all your devices)
anki is especially nice cause once you learn how to use it making a new card takes like 30 seconds, so you could literally add a word you heard in a conversation to your deck, I like to read manga and throw new words into an anki deck as I go.
I'd recommend trying to get a solid basis in grammar as well. If you understand grammar putting a sentences meaning together is a lot easier, even if you dont understand all the words.[/QUOTE]
I used Anki a lot for studying my real estate stuff, so I'm actually already pretty familiar with it. Awesome little tool! I'll definitely be using it to help with studying the language. I found some guides and resources on Reddit I mean to check out, too.
From what I unserstand, it's probably easiest to start with learning Hiragana, since it is pretty important to teaching you how to properly pronounce Japanese words and such?
[editline]18th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=helifreak;51546757]Pretty sure I shill him every page but [URL="http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/"]Tae Kim[/URL] is about as good as grammar guides get ever.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this one of the first things I was planning to check out! I'm also willing to invest in some paid resources, if there's anything else you could suggest? I'm probably going to be taking the two introductory classes at my community college, as well.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51546871]I used Anki a lot for studying my real estate stuff, so I'm actually already pretty familiar with it. Awesome little tool! I'll definitely be using it to help with studying the language. I found some guides and resources on Reddit I mean to check out, too.
From what I unserstand, it's probably easiest to start with learning Hiragana, since it is pretty important to teaching you how to properly pronounce Japanese words and such?[/QUOTE]
Yep. The only sound that exists in Japanese that doesn't in English is the rolled r sound, if you know Spanish you already know it. Afterwards, learning katakana and reading a bit up on [URL="https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/japanese-loanword-phonology/"]loanword phonology[/URL] will net you the ability to read about 2000 words with little effort (since the vast majority of load words are [del]stolen[/del] borrowed from English).
While it's not necessary to understand or to be understood, Japanese does have a 'pitch accent' where the tone of the word drops after a certain number of syllables into the word. Don't focus on learning it specifically at the start but when listening to native speakers try to mimic it, you will sound much more natural. Took me 2 years to find out it was a thing.
Do you think I could get the hang of the tonal changes through Japanese media? I can occasionally practice on Skype with my Aunt (she wants help learning English, I want help learning Japanese), but otherwise I don't know any other people who speak Japanese. I was planning to watch Japanese television and movies to help get the hang of recognizing word patterns, pronunciation, and tone, but I know it's not quite the same as actually having two way conversations.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51546975]Do you think I could get the hang of the tonal changes through Japanese media? I can occasionally practice on Skype with my Aunt (she wants help learning English, I want help learning Japanese), but otherwise I don't know any other people who speak Japanese. I was planning to watch Japanese television and movies to help get the hang of recognizing word patterns, pronunciation, and tone, but I know it's not quite the same as actually having two way conversations.[/QUOTE]
idk about japanese but exposure to american media definitely helped me with my english, and i barely had an accent by the time i had my first real conversation. much lengthier process ofc, but you'd be surprised with how much you can learn from it. also, change the language in your phone/computer as well if you really want to get into it
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51546975]Do you think I could get the hang of the tonal changes through Japanese media? I can occasionally practice on Skype with my Aunt (she wants help learning English, I want help learning Japanese), but otherwise I don't know any other people who speak Japanese. I was planning to watch Japanese television and movies to help get the hang of recognizing word patterns, pronunciation, and tone, but I know it's not quite the same as actually having two way conversations.[/QUOTE]
There's a load of online services where you can talk to people in Japanese. I'd reccomend italki, where you can match up with Japanese people who will help you learn japanese in return for English help or money. People who cost money are often professional japanese tutors, and you can read their reviews and such to determine who you want to go with. You do this over skype. You'll need to practice writing as well. A similar system to italki exists, called lang-8. You correct pieces of writing in english, other people correct your writing in japanese. It's super fucking handy.
also look up groups that meet up to practice conversation in your area
Once I get a bit more familiar, I may do just that. In the meantime, I rely on my phone and computer for work, so it'd be a little awkward to cripple myself for a learning exercise. :v:
Lemme know if you can think of any good shows for us to watch! There's a lot of anime and stuff obviously, but we're open to anything that will help us learn and practice common Japanese. There's a cooking show we plan to watch, for example, where the narrator speaks very slowly and carefully enunciates words. They have been playing it pretty regularly on TV. Most of the words will be food related from that program, of course, but practice is practice!
[editline]18th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=The Aussie;51546989]There's a load of online services where you can talk to people in Japanese. I'd reccomend italki, where you can match up with Japanese people who will help you learn japanese in return for English help or money. People who cost money are often professional japanese tutors, and you can read their reviews and such to determine who you want to go with. You do this over skype. You'll need to practice writing as well. A similar system to italki exists, called lang-8. You correct pieces of writing in english, other people correct your writing in japanese. It's super fucking handy.[/QUOTE]
Definitely gonna have to look into this. Thanks!
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51546998]Once I get a bit more familiar, I may do just that. In the meantime, I rely on my phone and computer for work, so it'd be a little awkward to cripple myself for a learning exercise. :v:
Lemme know if you can think of any good shows for us to watch! There's a lot of anime and stuff obviously, but we're open to anything that will help us learn and practice common Japanese. There's a cooking show we plan to watch, for example, where the narrator speaks very slowly and carefully enunciates words. They have been playing it pretty regularly on TV. Most of the words will be food related from that program, of course, but practice is practice![/QUOTE]
It's an animeme and therefore trash but the first thing I could understand without subs was おおかみこどもの雨と雪 (Wolf Children), it's a childrens movie so the words are easier but the story isn't your average dumbed down childrens movie. I felt like I understood most of it when I watched it ~6 months in (armed with this new found confidence in my abilities I tried watching something else without subs and gave up after 5 minutes). I'd imagine other childrens shows would be helpful early on if you can find some with decent stories (Ghibli stuff probably).
I'm interested in learning Spanish, focusing on everyday speech. I'm a monoglot; I can speak, read and write in English with a reasonable degree of fluency. I took German in high school, but it didn't stick.
Where should I start? Are there any obstacles or pitfalls I should be aware of? What can I do to improve my chances of success?
duolingo is as good a place to start as any, see if you're interested.
Best part about anki imo is the mobile factor. You might not always have books, or headphones and whatnot with you. But you can almost always get out your phone if you have like 10 minutes and run through it.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51547578]I'm interested in learning Spanish, focusing on everyday speech. I'm a monoglot; I can speak, read and write in English with a reasonable degree of fluency. I took German in high school, but it didn't stick.
Where should I start? Are there any obstacles or pitfalls I should be aware of? What can I do to improve my chances of success?[/QUOTE]
Two main things I think would be to be consistent with your work and be okay with making mistakes.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51549170]
Two main things I think would be to be consistent with your work and be okay with making mistakes.[/QUOTE]
This is the biggest fucking thing about learning any language. You need to actually work towards it consistently. An hour a day is better than 7 hour one day a week. Just try to do a little bit everyday, even if that little bit is only reviewing flashcards on the bus to work for 20 minutes. The more time you put in per day, the faster it'll be.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51547794]duolingo is as good a place to start as any, see if you're interested.[/QUOTE]
I'll look into it, thanks.
[editline]18th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51549170]Two main things I think would be to be consistent with your work and be okay with making mistakes.[/QUOTE]
I've kinda gathered that from how quickly I lost what little German I developed. :v:
[QUOTE=helifreak;51547042]It's an animeme and therefore trash but the first thing I could understand without subs was おおかみこどもの雨と雪 (Wolf Children), it's a childrens movie so the words are easier but the story isn't your average dumbed down childrens movie. I felt like I understood most of it when I watched it ~6 months in (armed with this new found confidence in my abilities I tried watching something else without subs and gave up after 5 minutes). I'd imagine other childrens shows would be helpful early on if you can find some with decent stories (Ghibli stuff probably).[/QUOTE]
Slice of life anime is great if you have low vocab because it's literally day to day stuff so you shouldn't struggle. I'm reading this atm [url]https://myanimelist.net/manga/63535/Amaama_to_Inazuma[/url]
And it's super easy since one of the characters is like 6 years old and most of the conversation revolves around cooking or food.
[editline]19th December 2016[/editline]
Yotsuba to! is also quite easy to read if you're new. Azumanga Daioh similarly low difficulty (although you'll learn some fun words like 痔, thanks Osaka.)
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51547578]Where should I start? Are there any obstacles or pitfalls I should be aware of? What can I do to improve my chances of success?[/QUOTE]
The easiest way to learn it is to actually be interested. It sounds pretty obvious, but you might fall into the trap of just associating language learning with tedious grammar exercises and vocab memorising.
Find some Spanish speaking friend, listen to music in Spanish, watch Spanish films, change your Steam language to Spanish, because it's all very well to do your Duolingo exercises and whatnot, but it'll be harder to get into a groove when you just immediately keep going back to English-only things.
Also, it's a small issue but it may be worth considering. There are some differences between European Spanish and Latin American Spanish. Duolingo teaches the latter but some teaching materials will be designed for the former. The differences aren't as big as, say, Dutch and Afrikaans, but it should be something to be aware of.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51550949]The easiest way to learn it is to actually be interested. It sounds pretty obvious, but you might fall into the trap of just associating language learning with tedious grammar exercises and vocab memorising.
Find some Spanish speaking friend, listen to music in Spanish, watch Spanish films, change your Steam language to Spanish, because it's all very well to do your Duolingo exercises and whatnot, but it'll be harder to get into a groove when you just immediately keep going back to English-only things.[/QUOTE]
Can confirm. My reading was trundling along with occasional twitter reading and Windows and Steam swapped to Japanese then I found a visual novel I wanted to read and my comprehension exploded. Made more progress in a month than I had the previous year I'd say.
If you aren't enjoying the content you are reading / listening to just drop it. Don't feel like you have to finish it because you started it, I know I have problems dropping things part way but it's important to be enjoying yourself or you won't learn as much.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51550949]Also, it's a small issue but it may be worth considering. There are some differences between European Spanish and Latin American Spanish. Duolingo teaches the latter but some teaching materials will be designed for the former. The differences aren't as big as, say, Dutch and Afrikaans, but it should be something to be aware of.[/QUOTE]
Hell, from what I hear, there are differences between regions of Latin America, too. I had a Mexican guy tell me that Puerto Ricans pronounce some words so differently that he has trouble figuring out what they're talking about.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51551045]Hell, from what I hear, there are differences between regions of Latin America, too. I had a Mexican guy tell me that Puerto Ricans pronounce some words so differently that he has trouble figuring out what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]
it's true. y and ll, for example (used in words like yo [me] and calle [street]), sound like an E in mexico (yo = "ee-o" and calle = "ca-ee-ay"), and like a SH in argentina (yo = sho and calle = ca-sh-ay)
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51551045]Hell, from what I hear, there are differences between regions of Latin America, too. I had a Mexican guy tell me that Puerto Ricans pronounce some words so differently that he has trouble figuring out what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Things like vegetables and other produce will often wind up being entirely different words with hardly any relation.
But don't sweat it too hard. Most resources will be teaching either Mexican or Castilian Spanish, and those two dialects are pretty well understood among pretty much all Spanish speakers so you'll do just fine with either.
Feliz Navidad, chicos.
Whats people's opinion on learning from a Skype based teacher? I'd like to start learning Thai and Skype is a much smaller commitment than attending a Thai language school for 6 months to a year
[QUOTE=waylander;51579489]Whats people's opinion on learning from a Skype based teacher? I'd like to start learning Thai and Skype is a much smaller commitment than attending a Thai language school for 6 months to a year[/QUOTE]
I know your post is a little old, but I figure I'd answer anyways. I teach English over Skype as part of my job. While most of my classes are in-person, some of my students prefer Skype as it's a more convenient way for them to learn because it gives them more flexibility in their schedules.
Now, from a teacher's perspective I don't think Skype is a bad platform for language learning. I think the biggest hurdle you'd face would be the quality of the teacher, which is naturally true for language institutes as well. With Skype I always use a camera so my students can see my mouth, and my body language as I speak, and I use the chat for pointing out new vocabulary, and grammar weaknesses. I also email support material to students, and assign homework when necessary. I'm not sure how other teachers do it, but that's what's worked for me and my students.
Basically I think it's a fine way to learn as I've seen progress with my own students while using it.
i was playing on a russian server a little while ago and i kept hearing them say a word that sounded like "Мужник" and "Мужники". i'm really curious about what muzhnik means, but i got no luck on google translate. any russian speakers here?
[editline]6th January 2017[/editline]
as far as i know it must be a noun because the -и suffix is used to pluralize nouns, correct?
clozemaster is really useful once you get to the stage where you know a few hundred words and the basics of the grammar
i've drifted more towards mastering finnish and only "maintaining" my polish for now, but i can read some newspaper comic strips and do some strained basic conversation with finnish people now
To make a long story short for a while I had a Romanian girlfriend and I learnt a few little things but very little and well that has now passed. Her mother is leaving the UK to go back home to Romania and since I harbour no ill will to her or her daughter I'm writing a "Good Luck" card for her.
Now from what I was told by my former partner, Cards aren't such a big or common thing in Romania though whether this is true or not I do not know, but I'm having a little difficulty trying to work out what to say and googletranslate is hardly the best place to work from.
Here is what I have so far:
"La [I]Her Name[/I],
Fost pare bine de cunoștință tu (It was nice to meet you)
Iti doresc noroc, sănătate și bogatie (Luck, Health and Wealth? I was trying to say "Good Fortune")
Călătorie plăcută! / Drum bun! (Safe Travels?)
Păstrăm legătura! (Keep in touch)
Dragoste, (Love)
[I]My Name[/I]"
Any help would be very much appreciated if anyone here happens to be from or know any Romanian.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
