Language Learner's Thread - Cunning Linguists Welcome. - General

How similar is Russian to Ukrainian? Both in accent and true differences. I'll soon travel to Ukraine and i read a lot about language-related tensions in the place. Don't wanna mispronounce a single character and end up kidnapped by DPR terrorists (not entirely joking). Any tip is appreciated.

Man, some of you guys have such nice credentials and stuff and all I'm doing is going to a state uni and trying to learn Spanish. :(

[QUOTE=Zoran;52889663]Man, some of you guys have such nice credentials and stuff and all I'm doing is going to a state uni and trying to learn Spanish. :([/QUOTE] Nothing wrong with that. Trying to learn a second language is, in and of itself, a great feat. Just remember to take it at your own pace. Many people, including some here, have been practicing constantly for months or years. It doesn't matter how long you take though, as long as you keep your end-goal in mind.

I'm trying to learn Japanese, and Memrise is quite helpful, but it jumps right into Kanji before it even finishes going over Hiragana and Katakana! Should I master reading in Hiragana and Katakana (and learn basic conversational Japanese) before trying to figure out how to read the thousands of different Kanji?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52901279]I'm trying to learn Japanese, and Memrise is quite helpful, but it jumps right into Kanji before it even finishes going over Hiragana and Katakana! Should I master reading in Hiragana and Katakana (and learn basic conversational Japanese) before trying to figure out how to read the thousands of different Kanji?[/QUOTE] I'd recommend spending the week it takes to learn hiragana first then learn katakana while doing the rest as it's not as important. Kanji is massive, you'll be spending years memorising them so you may as well start early. [video=youtube;oZEA54VJEdE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZEA54VJEdE[/video] Here's a guide.

Is there a "right" way to do Anki? I've been trying to it with Korean for the past few weeks and I constantly find myself forgetting words even after seeing them over and over again. I'll mark a word down as "Good" and see it two days later and completely forget the definition. I'd honestly say I forget more than I learn, it just doesn't seem to work well with me.

[QUOTE=Shendow;52901391]Usually I would do the same but if there's a character/whatever I can't memorize/keep confusing (looking at you, 上げる, 上がる, 下げる, 下がる!) it might be better to find a piece of paper or anything you can write it down - it might help you memorize better.[/QUOTE] For transitive vs intransitive verbs I find it much easier to memorise if it's in a sentence rather than using subpar translations that don't really capture the actual meaning. 下がる and 下げる would get failed every single time they came up in Wanikani because the translations they had were too similar (not to mention the way their fuzzy answer checking worked the answer for one of the two worked for both, but not the other way around). No such issues after I swapped to J-J sentences for vocab.

Okiedokie! I've got Hiragana down pat. No problem. About halfway through Katakana. Once I have both of these rockin' and rollin', I should be able to start learning actual vocabulary, sentence structure, etc. Yeah? Any good resources you could recommend for that? Apps, websites, etc?

[QUOTE=Shendow;52903556]For grammar you can never go wrong with [url=http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/]Tae Kim's Guide to Learning Japanese[/url]. [url=http://bunpro.jp/]Bunpro[/url] may also be worth looking at. For vocabulary there are sites that may serve that purpose (Duolingo? Memrise?) although I don't really use them so I won't be able to help. I find [URL="https://apps.ankiweb.net/"]Anki[/URL] better to use because it doesn't require an Internet connection so I can just open it up on my phone and do my reps while commuting. Anki isn't restricted to learning languages either; you can set it up to learn other things like names, dates etc. The particular set I use to learn is [url=https://www.roessland.com/blog/customizing-anki-decks-core-2k-6k-10k-further-optimized/]Core 2k/6k/10K Further Optimized[/url]. Aim to learn 5 or 10 new words a day and you'll progress at a good rate already.[/QUOTE] If you want a sense of direction go with Bunpro since it directly links to Tae Kim's articles where he discusses the specific grammar points Bunpro goes over anyway, but if you just want to go full on-your-own style then feel free to start from wherever you're comfortable with Tae Kim. For radicals+kanji+vocab I use WaniKani. It's an SRS tool similar to Anki but it has a much nicer interface (imo). The downside is it isn't nearly as customizable so you can't really go at your own pace, you're pretty much railroaded for the first bit. Other downside is after the first three "levels" you have to pay to continue. But I guarantee after three levels (which includes 82 radicals, 89 kanji, and 203 vocab words) that you'll know if you want to keep using it. There's not really a "roadmap" per se when it comes to language learning, particularly Japanese. So that's why I use Bunpro and Wanikani to help me pace myself and keep moving forward. I'm taking it at my own pace, even if it's a [I]lot[/I] slower than what's considered an "optimal" time (i.e. I just spent two weeks on my previous WaniKani level which is like way over). But once you hit that SRS system and see your first backlog that's sometimes what you've gotta do to keep yourself from burning out. [editline]Edited:[/editline] 「下げる」は最低ですよ www [editline]Edited: [/editline] Quick question since I guess I haven't really paid attention enough to notice, in a jukugo (idk if this is actually even called a jukugo) will the kanji both before and after a hiragana in the middle always use their kun'yomi reading? I was thinking that the one before it used the kun'yomi and the one after it used the on'yomi. Or does it still count as okurigana even if it's not hanging off the end?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52903499]Okiedokie! I've got Hiragana down pat. No problem. About halfway through Katakana. Once I have both of these rockin' and rollin', I should be able to start learning actual vocabulary, sentence structure, etc. Yeah? Any good resources you could recommend for that? Apps, websites, etc?[/QUOTE] I'll continue shilling [URL="https://jalupnext.com/"]Jalup NEXT[/URL] for vocab even though it's a bit expensive and Tae Kim has already been mentioned for grammar. [editline]two nuclear reactors were not enough[/editline] And IMO a goal should be getting to conversational level then finding a novel / mango / visual novel or something that's going to take you a long time to get to the end of so you have a consistent writing style with which to find new vocab that's actually relevant. Stuff like core 2k/6k are great for getting mass vocab in but if you looked up the meaning of a word in something you are reading you're a lot more likely to remember it. I was going through the last half of Tae Kim's guide while reading a VN that took me 80 hours to get through and since some of the characters were upper class snobs and/or doctors it even had advanced stuff from right at the end of the guide (ですだい・ですかい・ですら etc). But the pace at which you pick up additional vocab and grammar is insane, day 1 was a struggle to get through an hour but after a week I was reading 2-3 hours no problem.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys! I also want to rep the [URL="http://www.humanjapanese.com/home"]Human Japanese[/URL] app. It's ten bucks, but pretty dang awesome. Learning a lot!

I've been teaching myself Dutch recently, pretty easy and fun for an English speaker.

[QUOTE=Griffster26;52908387]I've been teaching myself Dutch recently, pretty easy and fun for an English speaker.[/QUOTE] I've generally considered Dutch as German for those with a fondness for velar fricatives. It's actually pretty closely related to English, but there are languages I would consider easier. Anything in particular that interests you about Dutch? Why'd you pick it over the other Germanics?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52907457]Thanks for the suggestions, guys! I also want to rep the [URL="http://www.humanjapanese.com/home"]Human Japanese[/URL] app. It's ten bucks, but pretty dang awesome. Learning a lot![/QUOTE] I can also pitch in. I've been using the site [URL="http://realkana.com/"]Realkana[/URL] while I brush my teeth in the morning and before I have to go to bed, and I have to say remembering Hiragana and Katakana went much smoother with it

[QUOTE=Samiam22;52908600]I've generally considered Dutch as German for those with a fondness for velar fricatives. It's actually pretty closely related to English, but there are languages I would consider easier. Anything in particular that interests you about Dutch? Why'd you pick it over the other Germanics?[/QUOTE] I picked Dutch because I wanted to learn German and I thought it might be a bit easier for me to learn Dutch first and use that as a bridge to help me with German. Also I know it's like the third closest non-Creole to English (after Scots and Frisian) so I figured it'd be easier for me.

[QUOTE=Griffster26;52911818]I picked Dutch because I wanted to learn German and I thought it might be a bit easier for me to learn Dutch first and use that as a bridge to help me with German. Also I know it's like the third closest non-Creole to English (after Scots and Frisian) so I figured it'd be easier for me.[/QUOTE] I personally wouldn't suggest learning an "intermediate" language between you and your ultimate goal, because learning languages even close to English take time and commitment and you'll get bored if you don't really care about it. Additionally, "close" to English doesn't necessarily mean easy. German is closer to English than French, for example, but many would consider French easier to learn than German. The North Germanic languages (Swedish, Norwegian, Danish et al) are notable for being further away on the tree, but being easier to learn because they have much simpler rules regarding conjugation and inflection, and their syntax is closer to English. That isn't to say that you should stop learning Dutch, if you're enjoying it, go right ahead, but I personally think that you should have gone straight to German if that interests you, even if it seems like a more difficult language.

[QUOTE=ihatecompvir;52901330]Is there a "right" way to do Anki? I've been trying to it with Korean for the past few weeks and I constantly find myself forgetting words even after seeing them over and over again. I'll mark a word down as "Good" and see it two days later and completely forget the definition. I'd honestly say I forget more than I learn, it just doesn't seem to work well with me.[/QUOTE] I switched to anki because I don't like the Thai courses on memrise but IMO anki doesn't allow you to review enough, maybe there is a setting for it though

i was getting frustrated at tones but half the time google translate gets its own audio playback wrong, i guess its not reliable for checking pronunciation of tonal languages

Any advice for learning Dutch?

[QUOTE=kijji;52914646]Any advice for learning Dutch?[/QUOTE] Duolingo helps me out