Why should Facepunch, which by the way consists almost entirely of potential workers with no or low skill, be in favor of no minimum wage? LOL
[QUOTE=K3inMitl3id;32272877]Why should Facepunch, which by the way consists almost entirely of potential workers with no or low skill, be in favor of no minimum wage? LOL[/QUOTE]
Why should anybody but CEOs be in favor of no minimum wage?
[QUOTE=Pepin;32272468]
Certainly the sweatshop gains, but so does the worker. What is the issue?
[/QUOTE]
Yes the worker gains many things such as mesothelioma
Company A and company B are probably owned by some wealthy british and american businessmen econmically enslaving the country.
Edit: we don't need to give them more possibilities to fuck 3rd world countries over.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32272935]Yes the worker gains many things such as mesothelioma[/QUOTE]
call 1-800-FREE-MESO-KIT
How about we just pay those who work more than the others.
[QUOTE=Lankist;32271318]FYI for those of you who haven't aced Poly-Sci 101 as the OP clearly has: A trust is basically a conspiracy between corporate interests to manipulate the market in their favor.[/QUOTE]
Surely the free market would never allow such a thing!!!!1
The day minimum wage is no more in this country is the day there will be outright riots across this country.
tbh I didn't actually read OP because tl;dr, but people shouldn't attack his position and berate him only for this seemingly invalid statement; rather they should do so for a weak argument, wherever it appears. I feel that so many dumbs came from a lack of understanding of the entire argument + something like minimum wage is sacrosanct and representative of american/firstworld values mentality.
In the end, you don't really know what effect minimum wage has; like someone said earlier minimum wage doesn't really effect unemployment or employment as far as we know.
And if I recall correctly, minimum wage is more useful as a political thing, because it doesn't [I]really[/I] help the poor as much as everyone thinks, but, again, people like the idea of better social standards.
This is all very rosy and all but you have to remember that America is a country whose companies stated civil wars all for cheaper bananas.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32272827]Slavery is not working at a low wage when there is not opportunity to work at a higher wage.[/QUOTE]
Uhh, yeah, it kind of is when they can only afford rent, just barely, and can barely eat, even with the ENTIRE family working.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32270577]How so? Can you provide an argument?[/QUOTE]
So company's can't pick and choose how much they pay their workers, which would be low so they keep as much money as they can without going out of buisness.
[QUOTE=J!NX;32273858]Uhh, yeah, it kind of is when they can only afford rent, just barely, and can barely eat, even with the ENTIRE family working.[/QUOTE]
slavery and being poor are not the same
[B]edit[/B]
[QUOTE=J!NX;32274908]The family would only be able to afford the very bare minimum even possible and ALL be working. They can't stop working, not one of them, or they're screwed.
Sounds like slavery to me.[/QUOTE]
I shouldn't have to prove why slavery is not the same as being poor.
stop saying that it is, it's dangerous to make these exaggerated assumptions or loose connections like this because it leads to misinformation and wrong conclusions.
maybe rhetorically it is, but it's really not.
wow, what a dumb opinion you have.
As someone who is barely scraping by paying for university and various bills on minimum wage, I think this is really stupid and would only hurt the lower classes (not like they haven't been fucked with enough, right?).
[QUOTE=heathendevil;32274260]slavery and being poor are not the same[/QUOTE]
The family would only be able to afford the very bare minimum even possible and ALL be working. They can't stop working, not one of them, or they're screwed.
Sounds like slavery to me.
I remember that one congressional investigation of workers in Saipan. Corporations would end up having works immigrating into Saipan, a part of the U.S. Commonwealth (where minimum wage does not apply IIRC) and they end up keeping them there in a limbo in where they cannot get paid enough to leave, yet their expenses in living on company property keeps them trapped there.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32270639]Because people going in for low skill jobs will be forced to compete with other potential workers by offering to do the job for a lower wage than the next man, essentially being forced to fuck themselves over to get the job.[/QUOTE]
As opposed to having no jobs at all.
I get £7 an hour. Why? Because my company is one of the most profitable in the retail industry.
I get the sense that a lot of people see getting a job when you need money being similar to getting raped. The employer gets all the pleasure, and all you get is beaten up. I chose rape because it is not consensual. In reality, an employer is someone that has sex with you consensually, and if you both work together well enough, you both benefit from it. If you work hard enough, you might get to be on top.
[QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;32272607]I don't think Pepin understands that some people will do anything to make money, so they will indeed work for the lowest price the employer sets, especially if it is the only job available to them at that point in time.[/QUOTE]
You have the option to deny whatever offer the employer makes. If the amount of money they offer you is not worth your time, you won't accept the job. The jobs market is driven by both parties.
[QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;32272607]I worked in a retail chain store for some time. Half the staff, and all the management sans one person was over 50. Why? They were lifers. They knew if they quit their job, they'd lose their home, their children, and what little livelihood that they could have living off minimum wage. So, they worked there from the time they passed (or dropped out of) high school to the time they "retire", which never actually happens. With those people, unless they saved up over the years (which is near impossible on minimum wage, according to some of my college friends), or had investments, they would quite literally work until they could not work a day more.[/quote]
There are some arguments against minimum wage that deal with that, because if you tell someone that they can land a job making $7 an hour without an education, they aren't as likely to invest in certain skills to be successful economical as they would if the minimum was a penny.
Also, as far as these old people you work with, what you don't see are all the elderly who aren't able to get a job because of the minimum wage law.
[QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;32272607]The point is, if you need money to support yourself and your family, and the only job available to you is paying "minimum wage", you can make it, just barely, but you can survive. If they removed a minimum, you would still get people working for $4.15 an hour if that's all they could get. The employer plays off the needs of the employee, which you don't seem to understand.[/quote]
That is what trade is. Two parties paying off the need of the other. People need money to live. The employer needs workers to run their business. Both parties benefit, and again, the alternative to the worker making $4.15 an hour would be them making nothing as well as not improving any skills or expanding work experience.
[QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;32272607]I think, as many others in this thread do, that the minimum should be raised if anything. Unskilled workers should be able to get by and support themselves on minimum wage. Otherwise, there is no point at setting the minimum because it will be below the range where you can support yourself.[/QUOTE]
Again, raising the minimum wage will make it harder for employers to justify hiring low skilled laborers. I go over who is most affected by this in the OP.
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;32273694]This is all very rosy and all but you have to remember that America is a country whose companies stated civil wars all for cheaper bananas.[/QUOTE]
Regardless that you just disagreed with me, the fact that you bring up the economic factors of the civil war makes me happy.
[QUOTE=J!NX;32273858]Uhh, yeah, it kind of is when they can only afford rent, just barely, and can barely eat, even with the ENTIRE family working.[/QUOTE]
Except in regard to minimum wage, the argument makes little sense. According to the Department of Labor, 2.2% of Americans earn minimum wage, and half of them are teenagers. I suppose you can assume there are some families that are living on minimum wage in there, but not many.
[url]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2006.htm[/url]
I don't see how the wage matters at all in this. Just say that working is slavery.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;32273859]So company's can't pick and choose how much they pay their workers, which would be low so they keep as much money as they can without going out of buisness.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't seem a bit off to you? I mean how giddy are people to strike?
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32275133]As opposed to having no jobs at all.[/QUOTE]
Having a ton of low-wage jobs that people can't live on will do absolutely nothing for the economy by make it even worse.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32272125]
We should allow child labor overseas and illegal labor in the states.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.cubeupload.com/D6PgTa.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Pepin;32272125]We should allow child labor overseas and illegal labor in the states. In third world countries, most children are going to be working regardless of the labor laws, and it is far more profitable for them to work in a sweatshop than on the farm. Furthermore, they can gain certainly skills early in life.[/QUOTE]
Children need education and fun, not hard labor. What kind of heartless person are you?
I think when I have 10 bucks, I'm going to buy a title quoting pepin
"We should allow child labor overseas and illegal labor in the states." -pepin
Fucking... Social Security... Minimum Wage.... This Threads get me so pissed off sometimes. [B]FUCK BIG GOV'T.[/B]
[QUOTE=DrgnRebrn;32276211]Fucking... Social Security... Minimum Wage.... This Threads get me so pissed off sometimes. [B]FUCK BIG GOV'T.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wow, you managed to post on a level on par with Pepin. I did not believe that was possible.
Lankist's answer to the minimum wage problem: "Kick all them damn beaners out of here."
[QUOTE=DrgnRebrn;32276402]Lankist's answer to the minimum wage problem: "Kick all them damn beaners out of here."[/QUOTE]
Yes i want to abuse my own people
[QUOTE=DrgnRebrn;32276402]Lankist's answer to the minimum wage problem: "Kick all them damn beaners out of here."[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you've got severe mental deficiency.
I suppose nobody arguing in favor of minimum wage has heard of unions.
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