Why You Should Be In Favor Of No Minimum Wage - General

[QUOTE=WastedJamacan;32277245]What are typical apartment rental prices?[/QUOTE] Depends on your area, and what kind of apartment. And from the prices I have seen, can be anywhere from $500 a month to $1500 a month, again, this depends on what kind of apartment it is. My father for example had a bare minimum studio apartment in the Bay Area here in California, and that cost him around $800 a month. Regardless of this, a 40 hour work week with all days paid at minimum wage (let's just say $8, this also depends on area), only comes out to about $15,300 annual income. Now, not even thinking about taxes, this kind of rent amount (which is fairly average, just a bit above) leaves you with about $450 dollars a month for food and anything else, like a phone, or internet. Income tax for this bracket is 15%, which brings your monthly allotment down to about $280. Now tell me, after going through fees, credit cards, and whatever else, is it still unreasonable to say that one can barely live off of this? And you want to get rid of this protection?

I ain't talking about South Africa. That had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. How about you use your own words rather than plagiarizing

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32277127]Again, no one seems to be able to answer this reasonably. So if the minimum wage is lowered, how do you expect people to live on lower than $8/hr when they are already having a hard time with that amount?[/QUOTE]Quite simply, they don't. Unions should take care of it all. Also, what if it were mandatory to be in a union if you made under a "living wage", a wage that is considered the minimum to be "livable". It's a nice compromise, I think

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277408]Quite simply, they don't. Unions should take care of it all. Also, what if it were mandatory to be in a union if you made under a "living wage", a wage that is considered the minimum to be "livable". It's a nice compromise, I think[/QUOTE] how the fuck do you think unions operate do you think they use their teamster magic to make more money You say "let the unions take care of it." The unions fucking lobby for a higher minimum wage.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32277428]how the fuck do you think unions operate do you think they use their teamster magic to make more money[/QUOTE]They make demands. Employers fulfill the demands or the unionists go on strike.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277440]They make demands. Employers fulfill the demands or the unionists go on strike.[/QUOTE] they also lobby the government [editline]13th September 2011[/editline] they mostly lobby the government

[QUOTE=Pepin;32270985]Your argument is that companies do not compete? Really? In this situation, it is entirely in Company A's self interest to raise the minimum wage. [/QUOTE] That has probably already been broken apart but, by your argument no company would give minimum wage because they want more workers. The thing is not every company wants a thousand workers. There is a finite number of workers a business needs. Not to mention there would also be competition among workers so that the one who gets payed the least would get the job. You ever see illegal immigrants get payed well? NO because they don't have minimum wage. All it does is cause people to either work for lower or not work at all which would make more people dependent on the government.

they lobby the fucking government

[QUOTE=Lankist;32277448]they also lobby the government[/QUOTE]That's not the fucking point. The point is that it's not the government's problem.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277465]That's not the fucking point. The point is that it's not the government's problem.[/QUOTE] uhh i don't think you understand how this works. they go on strikes to threaten their employers to maintain contracts. they lobby the government if they need a higher living wage. You said "unions take care of it." That's how they fucking take care of it. You can't say unions can solve everything and then say "except the way they always solve things." We are not an anarcho-capitalist society. It IS the government's problem.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32277451]That has probably already been broken apart but by your argument no company would give minimum wage because they want more workers. The thing is not every company wants a thousand workers. There is a finite number of workers a business needs. Not to mention there would also be competition among workers so that the one who gets payed the least would get the job. You ever see illegal immigrants get payed well? NO because they don't have minimum wage. All it does is cause people to either work for lower or not work at all which would make more people dependent on the government.[/QUOTE]The reason that companies don't want more workers is because all their cheap labor already comes from China and other countries, so why the fuck would they bother hiring people for that much more money here? [editline]13th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;32277475]uhh i don't think you understand how this works. they go on strikes to threaten their employers to maintain contracts. they lobby the government if they need a higher living wage.[/QUOTE]They could go on strike for higher wages just as easily.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277483]They could go on strike for higher wages just as easily.[/QUOTE] Yes a bunch of unskilled and underpaid workers go on strike. then they get fired and the company replaces them with more unskilled underpaid workers. That is NOT how wage disputes happen. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277483]They could go on strike for higher wages just as easily.[/QUOTE] Why should individual unions have to go through strife and struggle just to get their individual wages raised as opposed to just setting a standard? [editline]13th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;32277511]Yes a bunch of unskilled and underpaid workers go on strike. then they get fired and the company replaces them with more unskilled underpaid workers. That is NOT how wage disputes happen. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.[/QUOTE] And also this, right here.

[QUOTE=Pepin;32276769]I don't see what is wrong with illegal immigrants getting legal or illegal jobs. I refer to illegal labor as people working below minimum wage. And I already I believe I made an argument as to child labor, though keep in mind I mean where it is needed. I wouldn't be against child labor in France.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Pepin;32276769] Yet, if you manage to get child labor laws passed in many of these places, that's is not going to be the result. Instead, child prostitution, starvation, a harder time living, and more hard labor. It's not as those the alternatives to the sweatshops is school, instead it is some farming job or something similar.[/QUOTE] Jesus fucking christ you insensitive, insufferable, ignorant dipshit. Don't see what is wrong? I'm almost wishing I;d waited until this post before spending my money.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32277400]Depends on your area, and what kind of apartment. And from the prices I have seen, can be anywhere from $500 a month to $1500 a month, again, this depends on what kind of apartment it is. My father for example had a bare minimum studio apartment in the Bay Area here in California, and that cost him around $800 a month. Regardless of this, a 40 hour work week with all days paid at minimum wage (let's just say $8, this also depends on area), only comes out to about $15,300 annual income. Now, not even thinking about taxes, this kind of rent amount (which is fairly average, just a bit above) leaves you with about $450 dollars a month for food and anything else, like a phone, or internet. Income tax for this bracket is 15%, which brings your monthly allotment down to about $280. Now tell me, after going through fees, credit cards, and whatever else, is it still unreasonable to say that one can barely live off of this? And you want to get rid of this protection?[/QUOTE] Well first of all, California, iirc, has a really high standard of living. I've been looking around the midwest, i've seen 500 and 600 pop up mostly. This leaves roughly 500 left over, after taxes. This assumes no overtime, too. What is typical overtime pay?

[QUOTE=Lankist;32277511]Yes a bunch of unskilled and underpaid workers go on strike. then they get fired and the company replaces them with more unskilled underpaid workers. That is NOT how wage disputes happen. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.[/QUOTE]If somebody that doesn't join a union gets your job, then why are you in a union? If that person can survive on what you were getting, then you can too, and you don't need a damn union. If that person CAN'T survive on it, then they're just overly desperate and/or an idiot for not joining the union.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277592]If somebody that doesn't join a union gets your job, then why are you in a union? If that person can survive on what you were getting, then you can too, and you don't need a damn union. If that person CAN'T survive on it, then they're just overly desperate and/or an idiot for not joining the union.[/QUOTE] oh my fucking god what are you on without minimum wage the only competition is between workers for jobs if you had a choice between starving to death tomorrow and starving to death next month, which one would you choose

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277592]If somebody that doesn't join a union gets your job, then why are you in a union? If that person can survive on what you were getting, then you can too, and you don't need a damn union. If that person CAN'T survive on it, then they're just overly[B] desperate[/B] and/or an idiot for not joining the union.[/QUOTE] you just lost your argument, move on.

Look, if somebody can't survive on the wage, then why would they get the job? They'll realize that they can't survive on it soon enough.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32277406]I ain't talking about South Africa. That had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. How about you use your own words rather than plagiarizing[/QUOTE] Now I'm confused. More confused at what you're upset with. If you could rephrase your question that would be helpful.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277617]Look, if somebody can't survive on the wage, then why would they get the job? They'll realize that they can't survive on it soon enough.[/QUOTE] because if nobody is paying a goddamn livable wage for unskilled labor, people will take any job they can even if they'll remain severely impoverished for the rest of their life. it was called the great goddamn depression

[QUOTE=WastedJamacan;32277542]Well first of all, California, iirc, has a really high standard of living. I've been looking around the midwest, i've seen 500 and 600 pop up mostly. This leaves roughly 500 left over, after taxes. This assumes no overtime, too. What is typical overtime pay?[/QUOTE] Okay, first of all, I don't know what you're suggesting with that first part, that he just "shouldn't have been" in California? And again, minimum wage differs based on where you're working, because different areas have different ones. I can't give you a concrete number for what rent "is" or what overtime "is".

[QUOTE=Pepin;32277627]Now I'm confused. More confused at what you're upset with.[/QUOTE] I'm upset because you come in here on a high horse saying nobody else has any real argument, and then when you decide to stop repeating yourself you just post links to irrelevant information and say "QED." How about you answer the question. It's YOUR essay.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32277631]because if nobody is paying a goddamn livable wage for unskilled labor, people will take any job they can even if they'll remain severely impoverished for the rest of their life. it was called the great goddamn depression[/QUOTE] It was also true in the late 19th and early 20th century as well, with child labor and little economic regulation, and the depression just made it worse. [editline]13th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277617]Look, if somebody can't survive on the wage, then why would they get the job? They'll realize that they can't survive on it soon enough.[/QUOTE] Again you assume that the market will just correct itself. That's wishful thinking upon delusional thinking if I've ever heard it.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32277631]because if nobody is paying a goddamn livable wage for unskilled labor, people will take any job they can even if they'll remain severely impoverished for the rest of their life. it was called the great goddamn depression[/QUOTE]That's exactly the problem. We don't have enough demand for unskilled labor because we exported it all to China. We remove minimum wage, a few other adjustments, and we'll have them back.

[QUOTE=StealthArcher;32277529]Jesus fucking christ you insensitive, insufferable, ignorant dipshit. Don't see what is wrong? I'm almost wishing I;d waited until this post before spending my money.[/QUOTE] If I acted like I cared and still said the same thing would that help? Certainly the solution isn't to stop child labor, nor sweatshop labor. Let them go through their industrial period and become modern.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277680]That's exactly the problem. We don't have enough demand for unskilled labor because we exported it all to China. We remove minimum wage, a few other adjustments, and we'll have them back.[/QUOTE] So you think we should use even cheaper labor practices than china. china the same china that has half a dozen workers committing suicide every week because they're stuck in glorified concentration camps working jobs that pay pennies on the week, and they can't leave because it's literally the only job available to them. that china

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277680]That's exactly the problem. We don't have enough demand for unskilled labor because we exported it all to China. We remove minimum wage, a few other adjustments, and we'll have them back.[/QUOTE] And then what, wages would just magically rise or would we have to follow your "unions can just strike any time they don't like their wages" model? [editline]13th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;32277698]So you think we should use even cheaper labor practices than china.[/QUOTE] So basically it'll be this: [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__1jyd_lIyQ0/TOWxDjrPZ6I/AAAAAAAAAAQ/kReJICTuzAg/s1600/coal+breaker+boys.jpeg[/img]

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32277708]And then what, wages would just magically rise or would we have to follow your "unions can just strike any time they don't like their wages" model? [editline]13th September 2011[/editline] So basically it'll be this: [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__1jyd_lIyQ0/TOWxDjrPZ6I/AAAAAAAAAAQ/kReJICTuzAg/s1600/coal+breaker+boys.jpeg[/img][/QUOTE] [img]http://obrag.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/tentcityshanty.jpg[/img] The good old days, before the guvment ruined everything

[QUOTE=Lankist;32277738][img]http://obrag.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/tentcityshanty.jpg[/img] The good old days, before the guvment ruined everything[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the robber barons, child labor, and widespread poverty. "The good 'ol days"