did you hear how 90% of poor people in america have a refrigerator
"POOR" PEOPLE, RIGHT?
They're rolling around in refrigerator money and leeching off of the hard-working playboy billionaire's blood, sweat and tears.
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277698]So you think we should use even cheaper labor practices than china.
china
the same china that has half a dozen workers committing suicide every week because they're stuck in glorified concentration camps working jobs that pay pennies on the week, and they can't leave because it's literally the only job available to them.
that china[/QUOTE]Not quite that low. Obviously China is still going to have lower, I mean come on, why the fuck would you go down to their level. China has cheap cheap manufacturing. We should have higher quality manufacturing than that.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277809]Not quite that low. Obviously China is still going to have lower, I mean come on, why the fuck would you go down to their level. China has cheap cheap manufacturing. We should have higher quality manufacturing than that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you get high quality manufacturing by hiring workers that aren't emaciated and/or prepubescent.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277809]Not quite that low. Obviously China is still going to have lower, I mean come on, why the fuck would you go down to their level. China has cheap cheap manufacturing. We should have higher quality manufacturing than that.[/QUOTE]
Expectations of high quality for incredibly low wages? That is a laugh riot.
[editline]13th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277834]Yeah you get high quality manufacturing by hiring workers that aren't emaciated and/or prepubescent.[/QUOTE]
Also the child labor isn't good.
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277648]I'm upset because you come in here on a high horse saying nobody else has any real argument, and then when you decide to stop repeating yourself you just post links to irrelevant information and say "QED."
How about you answer the question. It's YOUR essay.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I should stop pointing out when people aren't saying anything substantial.
I thought saying "Company B does not really have any options to gain an edge that Company A would not have" was enough to rule out other means from the scenario. But maybe I should have made that a bit more clear. Certainly in the real world, things are far more complex, but it's a simple scenario based off something that did happen, though the circumstances were of course far difference are more confusing.
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277834]Yeah you get high quality manufacturing by hiring workers that aren't emaciated and/or prepubescent.[/QUOTE]Never mentioned child labor. While I think children should have the CHOICE to work, having wages so low as to force them to work is wrong.
And for fuck's sake, it's not about having lower wages, it's about getting the government out of it. Unions should do that.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277878]Never mentioned child labor. While I think children should have the CHOICE to work, having wages so low as to force them to work is wrong.
And for fuck's sake, it's not about having lower wages, it's about getting the government out of it. Unions should do that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you said we need to match China's production costs.
Guess how their labor is so cheap
I have explained time and time again how unions are successful by appealing government. Why do you think they didn't fucking exist before FDR? Shit, unions were ILLEGAL before FDR.
Minimum wage should not be a flat rate, but instead calculated for individual regions based on factors such as the cost of living, average wealth of low-mid income families in that area, and the current economic situation of the region and nation.
Hey OP do you support child labour in the United States
you said you support it in France for some reason so answer my question please
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277889]I have explained time and time again how unions are successful by appealing government. Why do you think they didn't fucking exist before FDR? Shit, unions were ILLEGAL before FDR.[/QUOTE]Okay, and what's your point? It's a good thing that unions are legal now.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277943]Okay, and what's your point? It's a good thing that unions are legal now.[/QUOTE]
Unions are only legal because of the advent of government interventionism and regulated economy
They would not exist if the government stopped giving a shit about workers.
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277952]Unions are only legal because of the advent of government interventionism and regulated economy
They would not exist if the government stopped giving a shit about workers.[/QUOTE]No, unions were ILLEGAL because of government intervention. Things are legal until they're made illegal.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277977]No, unions were ILLEGAL because of government intervention. Things are legal until they're made illegal.[/QUOTE]
No unions were illegal because there were an inordinate amount of lobbying groups representing corporate interests and it was illegal to have a lobbying group representing workers.
If you don't know the first thing about the New Deal you need to fuck off about economic policy.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32277685]If I acted like I cared and still said the same thing would that help? Certainly the solution isn't to stop child labor, nor sweatshop labor. Let them go through their industrial period and become modern.[/QUOTE]
Because our "modernity" wrt labor was established through the exact means you are currently criticizing (ie. minimum wage and, implicitly, workers rights resolutions of the same vein).
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277988]No unions were illegal because there were an inordinate amount of lobbying groups representing corporate interests and it was illegal to have a lobbying group representing workers.
If you don't know the first thing about the New Deal you need to fuck off about economic policy.[/QUOTE]That still doesn't refute the point at all. If anything, you just added to it that the government fucked it up
The government fucked up by allowing groups supporting workers rights? Seriously?
[QUOTE=joshjet;32278128]The government fucked up by allowing groups supporting workers rights? Seriously?[/QUOTE]Other way around. It fucked up by making unions illegal.
[QUOTE=Lankist;32277988]No unions were illegal because there were an inordinate amount of lobbying groups representing corporate interests and it was illegal to have a lobbying group representing workers.
If you don't know the first thing about the New Deal you need to fuck off about economic policy.[/QUOTE]
Debate threads are so much more fun now that we have you back.
And abolishing of the minimum wage is a absolutely retarded concept from what I have seen. Over the last summer and a few half terms in between college terms, I worked at a factory earning just over minimum wage for my age group. While working there I got to work with the unskilled workers that this idea would apparently "help". The guys with so little skills that they had to be contracted by a third party just to hold a job for days or weeks. With no proper job prospects.
The third party agencies take a percentage of the wage the employee earns. And as the employee isn't actually hired by the company they work for, the company doesn't have to provide them with much. They were getting less pay than me, exactly on minimum for their age group, less holidays (if they had worked long time periods that is) and no sick pay at all. Then the agency would take a percentage of their minimum wage, as payment for their services.
These guys were so skint that you could tell they had a hard time affording basic amenities like heating and the ability to use a shower most times. They would work as many hours as they could, even while ill, just so that they could get the money to buy food. If this is what it is like for the unskilled with just under minimum wage, then a complete lack of it would destroy them. They wouldn't be able to afford housing, let alone the rent of a cardboard box.
And yet they kept happy, and never really seemed to care about their troubles as long as they knew they had a stable income. Something that would not be promised without a minimum wage.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32277680]That's exactly the problem. We don't have enough demand for unskilled labor because we exported it all to China. We remove minimum wage, a few other adjustments, and we'll have them back.[/QUOTE] You understand that minimum wage is the least amount you can get to live off of right? Basically your saying people should get payed less money then it takes to live.
To summarize this thread with pretty pictures:
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/avatar/95755.png?garryis=awesome[/img] vs [img]http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/1a/1ae1d47f0844e602a32d4c3682922d112050e7c8_full.jpg[/img]
And more recently:
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/avatar/380161.png?garryis=awesome[/img] vs [t]http://www.myenergysolution.com/energy-savings-blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/US-GreatSeal-Obverse600px.jpg[/t]
Personally, I don't think there is much left to say. I've made my case with my uneducated hypothetical, and plenty of people who seem to actually know what they're talking about have made their cases.
I don't think there's going to be any mind-changing going on in this thread. Certainly there will be no winners - but then, this is a political debate. There are [b]never[/b] any winners.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32278147]Other way around. It fucked up by making unions illegal.[/QUOTE]
And so because unions fixed the problem and the government is now the only thing holding that together, you want to take the government out and basically go back to them good old days again.
Jesus fuck you're retarded.
The work I do demands what I got paid when started, and the monthly raises just adds to the pleasure of doing so much dam work.
ITT: People justifying child labor and entire families working hard, horrible long hours for pennies a day, barely even able to eat off bread, and surviving just barely off rain water.
Intelligence going out the window and into a pit of lava, basically.
[editline]13th September 2011[/editline]
Might as well call ourselves a third world country if we do that
god bless America, home of slave wages!
[quote=J!NX]ITT: People justifying child labor and entire families working hard, horrible long hours for pennies a day, barely even able to eat off bread, and surviving just barely off rain water.
Intelligence going out the window and into a pit of lava, basically.[/quote]
I think lava would leave at least the slightest trace of evidence, I see none.
[QUOTE=joshjet;32278600]I think lava would leave at least the slightest trace of evidence, I see none.[/QUOTE]
A slight poof of smoke disappointed into dust, thats too much to describe OP.
this is as retarded as knowingly walking into Leather-faces home, naked, and telling him to keep you alive in the most horrific way possible, then telling him to let you go once you lay there with all your skin off.
[QUOTE=joshjet;32278600]I think lava would leave at least the slightest trace of evidence, I see none.[/QUOTE]
well somebody's bound to ask why theres so much god damn lava all over the place
I live in the State with the best minimum wage.
I fucking work my ass off at jobs and for $8.67, I don't believe in removing minimum wage.
Work a day in your life part-time. Then you'll see why you're dumb.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;32279317]I live in the State with the best minimum wage.
I fucking work my ass off at jobs and for $8.67, I don't believe in removing minimum wage.
Work a day in your life part-time. Then you'll see why you're dumb.[/QUOTE]
I feel you. I spent a month stuffing envelopes 30 hours a week for $6 an hour.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;32279317]I live in the State with the best minimum wage.
I fucking work my ass off at jobs and for $8.67, I don't believe in removing minimum wage.
Work a day in your life part-time. Then you'll see why you're dumb.[/QUOTE]
Damn son, I wish I lived in your state.
ITT: a bunch of kids who have never had to work a day in their lives vs. the rest of us who bust our asses to survive.
Seriously, I unload trucks for kohls, I usually start working at 6 am, sometimes even 5 am, I bust my ass and make 7.25 an hour, which is about 2.50$ an hour LESS than the supposed "living wage" in my county.
I mean goddamn, there are times when I will literally have less than 10$ to feed myself for the next TWO WEEKS. Removing minimum wage would fuck over a LOT of people, such as myself, the kind of people who sometimes have to steal food from the grocery store because they cannot afford it, those of us making minimum wage.
OP (and everyone else who is advocating the removal of minimum wage) missed the part that corporations do not give a single FUCK about most of their employees, if you're not happy with what you get paid they will drop your ass and find someone else to do your job for less money with no trouble at all.
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