Why You Should Be In Favor Of No Minimum Wage - General

[QUOTE=Kurtzund;32288432]I used to be against minimum wage laws, food stamps and public healthcare. Then I started living on my own and realized how seriously fucked you can be without such services.[/QUOTE] This. Old people, parents, etc. bitch about how the poor are dooming this country, yet they never realize that some people might not have it as easy. First the first year I was living on my own, I was on food stamps. It was majorly embarrassing, but now I'm glad I had them. The economy is bad, the prices of everything are going up, and yet people still have the nerve to insult those who need public assistance. I had this old guy come up to me when I was using my food stamp card (in Pennsylvania it's called an Access card), and said to me, "Say thanks." I said, "For what?" He then said, "For your free food." I was in disbelief that someone would have the nerve to say that, so in return I said, "Sir, each week the same amount gets deducted from my paycheck as it does yours for public programs. Technically I'm paying for my own food." That shut him right up.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike[/url] Armed thugs and state militia beating and shooting steelworkers for demanding a minimum wage. This is what happens when you decide that corporations and the lower class can just somehow happily reach a compromise on wages without regulation. The idea that business will do anything but further it's own goals selfishly is delusional to expect. Read a fucking history book before you go asking society to backslide into the 19th century.

[QUOTE=Kurtzund;32288432]I used to be against minimum wage laws, food stamps and public healthcare.[/QUOTE] Why would you [i]ever[/i] be against them in the first place

[QUOTE=StealthArcher;32278229]And so because unions fixed the problem and the government is now the only thing holding that together.[/QUOTE] Sounds like a fairy tail you would tell your kids before they went to bed. Of course unions did a lot of good, I'm not going to doubt this, but to the degree you hold them seems to be extreme. [QUOTE=J!NX;32278433]ITT: People justifying child labor and entire families working hard, horrible long hours for pennies a day, barely even able to eat off bread, and surviving just barely off rain water.[/QUOTE] Perhaps I'll be more blunt. You are in favor of those who are not skilled enough to get a job to remain unemployable, thus not working for pennies a day, but rather begging. Again, just as the situation with the man who needs a kidney, not allowing him to be exploited is condemning him to death. Not allowing a child to work in a sweatshop ensure that they will starve. Not all the time of course, sometimes they turn to prostitution, sometimes they just have to live far worse working longer hours with a job that is more difficult and pays far less. To assume the situation in third world nations is exactly the same as in the states is bit of stretch. [QUOTE=Zatharon;32280200]OP (and everyone else who is advocating the removal of minimum wage) missed the part that corporations do not give a single FUCK about most of their employees, if you're not happy with what you get paid they will drop your ass and find someone else to do your job for less money with no trouble at all.[/QUOTE] Certainly they care, to suggest otherwise is a bit irrational. All business has full incentive to keep their workers happy, productive, and to try to keep them working there. The very fact that a worker might have a better opportunity somewhere else will lead an employer to raise a worker's wage. Though you'd like to believe that everyone is equal and exactly the same, this isn't true, and if you are a productive employee, your employer isn't likely to fire you or lower your wage. You are really only in trouble if you are unproductive or not being competitive enough. [QUOTE=The one that is;32280886]Dear op, You are an idiot, minimum wage protects us from being fucked over by employers.[/QUOTE] By ensuring people who are not worth such a wage are unemployed? [QUOTE=GamerKiwi;32281142]With no minimum wage, a job paying $0.10 an hour=Perfectly legal.[/QUOTE] That'd be fine, though few people in America would work for it at this moment. Again, labor contracts are agreed on by both parties. Though many illegal immigrants will work below minimum wage, there is obviously a price at which they will refuse to work for, and this is because like any trade, a deal is only reached when the trade is believed to benefit both parties. [QUOTE=Calam1tous;32281317]Did you really think this through when you wrote this? It's common sense; most companies will lower their pay as much as possible to save costs. The gap between the rich and power would widen by miles overnight. There might occasionally be a "good" company that pays its employees properly, but everyone would want to work for them and no jobs would be available except for the very highest bidders.[/QUOTE] The fallacy you're commiting is that you're assuming that there isn't some equilibrium at play and instead insisting that the wants of the employer are realistic. Surely the employer would want to pay nothing for everything, just as you would, it is in everyone's self interest. The fallacy is assuming that this is possible, that taking of the price controls off a certain good will result in the employer bidding the price down to nothing. To believe this is irrational because it is obvious that the selling of the good has it in their own self interest to make money, and therefore they will not let that occur or even start to happen. Why aren't businesses getting everything for free, why do they have to pay money for the stuff they buy? Why would you assume that price controls would have a completely different effect when taken off of labor? [QUOTE=DanRatherman;32288564][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike[/url] Armed thugs and state militia beating and shooting steelworkers for demanding a minimum wage. This is what happens when you decide that corporations and the lower class can just somehow happily reach a compromise on wages without regulation. The idea that business will do anything but further it's own goals selfishly is delusional to expect[/QUOTE] How does that argument make any sense? I shouldn't have to say that I condone violence, and I also shouldn't have to say that violence always goes both way and I can bring up some historical examples of Unions destroying businesses, hanging blacks, and so on. Really what you said is only relevant if you're making the argument that the idea behind the abolishment of the minimum wage necessitates violence, which it does not.

[QUOTE=CrispexOps;32288499]This. Old people, parents, etc. bitch about how the poor are dooming this country, yet they never realize that some people might not have it as easy. First the first year I was living on my own, I was on food stamps. It was majorly embarrassing, but now I'm glad I had them. The economy is bad, the prices of everything are going up, and yet people still have the nerve to insult those who need public assistance. I had this old guy come up to me when I was using my food stamp card (in Pennsylvania it's called an Access card), and said to me, "Say thanks." I said, "For what?" He then said, "For your free food." I was in disbelief that someone would have the nerve to say that, so in return I said, "Sir, each week the same amount gets deducted from my paycheck as it does yours for public programs. Technically I'm paying for my own food." That shut him right up.[/QUOTE] Old people, parents, etc. bitch about how the poor are dooming this country, yet they never realize that their bitching is dooming the country. [editline]14th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Pepin;32288840]-long post-[/QUOTE] why are you still here? BTW Nice title [img]http://content.screencast.com/users/SebMcMeb/folders/Jing/media/dea8210e-b096-4a2c-a81f-fc76b140ff70/2011-09-14_1418.png[/img] [editline]14th September 2011[/editline] If you write OP two twin walls of logic and reason, he will just crash a plane of ignorance and stupidity into it, and all your work will burn, and smolder, and tumble into the ground. Just stop arguing with him, he is the embodiment of ignorance and decay, and his mindset is one of the main reasons this country is so screwed up. He cannot be reasoned with, just stop.

[QUOTE=Pepin;32288840]By ensuring people who are not worth such a wage are unemployed?[/QUOTE] Ahaha, oh wow. The people unfit for minimum wage are the people who cannot work. Anyone can get a job doing hard labor, manufacturing, etc no matter their skill as there are always unskilled jobs in those areas. The people who can't get these jobs are usually the disabled/ sickly, the elderly or children (who shouldn't be working in the first place and should be getting an education to get them out of wage slaving). People who have failed all forms of education can still get a minimum wage job, people with no training can do the same. There's a reason these people don't have jobs, and it isn't minimum wage.

[QUOTE=Metalcastr;32281591]Really? I guess then people have absolutely no ability to learn or increase their skills. Low skill workers could also be people who have yet to learn skills, such as those in apprentice or in university. Everyone starts out with few or no skills, learning takes time.[/QUOTE] Did you read the rest, as I say the exact opposite. Allowing people who are now not able to get a job due to the minimum wage work below the minimum wage would allow them to learn new skills and open up more doors. To make the issue clear, having someone go through the learning curve is not very profitable, which gives employers high incentive to hire workers who have had past experience. It is true that the jobs that require low skill such as fast food are generally employed by teenagers, which makes a lot of sense given the skills required. [QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32281308]I don't know if your defending op or not but his argument has pretty much been destroyed.[/QUOTE] I would disagree. I would say that most people disagree with me and think I am dumb. [QUOTE=WubWubWompWomp;32283867]Oh good! Now I can earn $0.0000001 an hour instead of $10! GREAT IDEA..[/QUOTE] If that's what you consider your time to be worth. Personally I'd negotiate for more. [QUOTE=CrispexOps;32287545]Employers don't control minimum wage, inflation does. If there was no minimum wage, people would not be able to afford anything. Plain and simple. Ironcially, minimum wage jobs are the ones that require you to do the most.[/QUOTE] Politicians typically control minimum wage. Certainly inflation is a factor that is considered by politicians, but as far as I'm aware there is always a vote and it isn't guaranteed at all to go through. Though in the US there is a Federal minimum wage that I think is determined by the DOL, the States usually have one that is higher that is determined by the elected representatives, so the Federal one is pretty meaningless. The next statement makes no sense as how anyone buy anything before minimum wage. [QUOTE=J!NX;32288844]why are you still here?[/QUOTE] I made a thread to make a point and it wouldn't really make sense to say something and leave. [QUOTE=hexpunK;32289556]Ahaha, oh wow. The people unfit for minimum wage are the people who cannot work. Anyone can get a job doing hard labor, manufacturing, etc no matter their skill as there are always unskilled jobs in those areas. The people who can't get these jobs are usually the disabled/ sickly, the elderly or children (who shouldn't be working in the first place and should be getting an education to get them out of wage slaving). People who have failed all forms of education can still get a minimum wage job, people with no training can do the same. There's a reason these people don't have jobs, and it isn't minimum wage.[/QUOTE] I read what you said a couple of times and I interpreted a different way each time. I guess that it artistic in a way, but I really don't know what you're saying. If you could phrase it better.

[QUOTE=J!NX;32288844]Old people, parents, etc. bitch about how the poor are dooming this country, yet they never realize that their bitching is dooming the country. [editline]14th September 2011[/editline] why are you still here? BTW Nice title [img]http://content.screencast.com/users/SebMcMeb/folders/Jing/media/dea8210e-b096-4a2c-a81f-fc76b140ff70/2011-09-14_1418.png[/img] [editline]14th September 2011[/editline] If you write OP two twin walls of logic and reason, he will just crash a plane of ignorance and stupidity into it, and all your work will burn, and smolder, and tumble into the ground. Just stop arguing with him, he is the embodiment of ignorance and decay, and he's one of the main reasons this country is so screwed up. He cannot be reasoned with, just stop.[/QUOTE] wow seriously if you mean that you're about as retarded as you claim he is; you write like you're bidding for an election or something coming back only with some cheesy rhetorical statements that you even managed to somehow incorporate 9/11 into, wtf. not only have not not addressed his position, but you also claim that you don't need to, because you come from a higher plane of authority and knowledge in the matter, when you clearly do not. I mean, If you don't know, you don't have to pretend you do. really, in the end, all any of you can accurately say is that from your inexperience and limited view of econ, you, as an individuals with opinions, disagree. that is how much authority you have in the topic. upon (sort of) reading further, I don't agree with or much care for what he said, but I don't take it personally, nor do I claim to be absolutely right in justifying a hate not grounded in anything tangible; hate like this comes from ignorance. there are a lot of ways you can prove, or at least argue, pepin wrong, but this reflexive shallow and insincere hate behavior is wrong in itself. please, treat it as what it is, an argumentative essay. also on a sort of tangent, referring to history as an example of the evils of minimum wage isn't a great argument worth emphasizing; the past had way too many different things going on that it can't even be used as a model for the current economy/social structure. this is what makes econ so hard to figure out- the lack of a control economy. I mean this idea is already established and widely recognized; don't insist on providing pictures of the great depression like it's something to consider especially. the way it's presented in this thread is kind of bad. I'm not trying to defend no minimum wage, but I am calling you guys out on how you're not really saying anything, except that you're clearly mad. any real points made are so scarce and so embedded in this hate thing, that I suddenly feel that most of you shouldn't have posted here in the first place, because your input is detrimental to debate. I became incredibly unsatisfied in the way most of of the people here treated information in a forum, and I feel the need to say something because I think this mentality is a greater injustice than the topic itself. [B] edit[/B] [QUOTE=J!NX;32290599]Except the fact that we've been arguing for him for 7 pages as to why no minimum wage doesn't work, and he doesn't listen to the fact that it doesn't work. Sure, a lot of the posts are just senseless, but at this point, theres no arguing with him, this is a person thats advocating child labor and sweat shops. I'm not writing like I'm "Bidding for an election", and honestly, I'm not going to bother with someone that says what OP says either. Theres the right to an opinion, and I think people deserve having their own opinions, but the fact is, some peoples opinions are insane and shouldn't even be allowed to exist period because of the shear stupidity they are. Would you support someone that believes the Earth is flat and that the ones who think its round are the ignorant ones? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is something thats been proven not to work, and will only create more issues, so supporting it in itself seems ignorant and stupid. This can only work to such a limited degree that trying it is utterly pointless and silly, and people have exemplified that its wrong over and over. If thats not good enough, then obviously nothing is, because there are a lot of non-hateful counterarguments from people with real lives and real world experiences VS the VERY small amount of people, 1, 2, maybe 3 actually supporting no minimum wage. "but you also claim that you don't need to, because you come from a higher plane of authority and knowledge in the matter, when you clearly do not." I never said I come from some higher plane of Authority, I'm simply a guy who knows enough common sense to filter out the bullshit OP is spewing. Don't start twisting words please. I'm also a guy who knows that many people CANNOT LIVE WITH "UNDER MINIMUM WAGE", because even with minimum wage, they're barely even scrapping by. So simply remove it is going to make things far worse. People will be forced to commit more crimes, and purchase less. This has been repeated over and over, but no progress has been made. maybe this would work in a third world country, but this isn't a third world country, America doesn't work that way. If you people can't listen to the voice of reason, then WHY bother being reasonable? EDIT: Also, you have the right that to your opinion, i'll defend your right, I just won't agree with it[/QUOTE] I'm not saying what pepin is saying, unless you mean that you guys are behaving unfairly. if some people's opinions are insane, what makes yours sane? you even contradict yourself by saying that you're pro-right to opinion, but some opinions shouldn't exist period. If that's true then you need to accept that your opinion can be equally shit (currently it is) you use common sense as a plane of higher authority, when really it's just misinformation and a lack of understanding. you act like common sense is never wrong, even where common sense is notoriously wrong in econ. your example goes against you. by your reasoning, you actually wouldn't support a round earth if you were a commoner from centuries ago, with only common sense to supplement your opinion; common sense is stupid and 'truth' is relative. not being open to other ideas, however stupid they seem, is something that has been proven not to work; it is hard to prove that anything is right, when nothing really is, especially in the complexities of econ. you don't really get to decide what is pointless or silly, reason does. And you’ll find that no minimum wage actually has does enough arguments, some kind of provided by pepin, that no one can say that it is wrong. No one gets the right to say that it is wrong. Same goes for pro-minimum wage; like I said, nothing is right, there are only arguments. also minimum wage is a controversy that isn't what you portray. the issue is a big mess with the actually not very small amount(how did you even come to the conclusion that a very small number of people support it?) of economists supporting anti-minwage; it's only in place currently because or purely socio-political value-judgments, not because it helps the economy. As for the topic itself, minimum wage isn’t and cannot be directly linked as an anti-poverty tool. No one can really say that minimum wage does anything for sure, because there’s no proof to say that it does something or doesn’t (and its effects constantly change); it’s just an unnatural shift in the supplydemand curve. You can try to argue with the evidence given, but nothing is substantial. this is the reality of the minimum wage controversy. So don’t say that it’s common sense or absolutely right to do anything. I’ve said this before, there are only arguments and awkward evidence. you accuse pepin of not being able to listen to the 'voice of reason', and you not only aren't even giving him benefit of doubt, you mock him and get personally angered. you yourself are not reasonable, especially with all the hate-rage. seriously, you're arguing about something you don't know about. And then you're getting kind of upset and wrongly accusing pepin of being retarded about it. that's my problem.

[QUOTE=Pepin;32289924]If that's what you consider your time to be worth. Personally I'd negotiate for more.[/QUOTE] What you don't seem to understand is that if you're unskilled, you're expendable. Why bother negotiating and fighting an employee when you can just find someone to do it cheaper, no questions asked. Employers controls employees, not the other way around.

[QUOTE=heathendevil;32290233]wow seriously if you mean that you're about as retarded as you claim he is; you write like you're bidding for an election or something coming back only with some cheesy rhetorical statements that you even managed to somehow incorporate 9/11 into, wtf. not only have not not addressed his position, but you also claim that you don't need to, because you come from a higher plane of authority and knowledge in the matter, when you clearly do not. I mean, If you don't know, you don't have to pretend you do. really, in the end, all any of you can accurately say is that from your inexperience and limited view of econ, you, as an individuals with opinions, disagree. that is how much authority you have in the topic. upon (sort of) reading further, I don't agree with or much care for what he said, but I don't take it personally, nor do I claim to be absolutely right in justifying a hate not grounded in anything tangible; hate like this comes from ignorance. there are a lot of ways you can prove, or at least argue, pepin wrong, but this reflexive shallow and insincere hate behavior is wrong in itself. please, treat it as what it is, an argumentative essay. also on a sort of tangent, referring to history as an example of the evils of minimum wage isn't a great argument worth emphasizing; the past had way too many different things going on that it can't even be used as a model for the current economy/social structure. this is what makes econ so hard to figure out- the lack of a control economy. I mean this idea is already established and widely recognized; don't insist on providing pictures of the great depression like it's something to consider especially. the way it's presented in this thread is kind of bad. I'm not trying to defend no minimum wage, but I am calling you guys out on how you're not really saying anything, except that you're clearly mad. any real points made are so scarce and so embedded in this hate thing, that I suddenly feel that most of you shouldn't have posted here in the first place, because your input is detrimental to debate. I became incredibly unsatisfied in the way most of of the people here treated information in a forum, and I feel the need to say something because I think this mentality is a greater injustice than the topic itself.[/QUOTE] I've been saying shit. I've been saying like a shitload of things.

[QUOTE=heathendevil;32290233]wow seriously if you mean that you're about as retarded as you claim he is; you write like you're bidding for an election or something coming back only with some cheesy rhetorical statements that you even managed to somehow incorporate 9/11 into, wtf. not only have not not addressed his position, but you also claim that you don't need to, because you come from a higher plane of authority and knowledge in the matter, when you clearly do not. I mean, If you don't know, you don't have to pretend you do. really, in the end, all any of you can accurately say is that from your inexperience and limited view of econ, you, as an individuals with opinions, disagree. that is how much authority you have in the topic. upon (sort of) reading further, I don't agree with or much care for what he said, but I don't take it personally, nor do I claim to be absolutely right in justifying a hate not grounded in anything tangible; hate like this comes from ignorance. there are a lot of ways you can prove, or at least argue, pepin wrong, but this reflexive shallow and insincere hate behavior is wrong in itself. please, treat it as what it is, an argumentative essay. also on a sort of tangent, referring to history as an example of the evils of minimum wage isn't a great argument worth emphasizing; the past had way too many different things going on that it can't even be used as a model for the current economy/social structure. this is what makes econ so hard to figure out- the lack of a control economy. I mean this idea is already established and widely recognized; don't insist on providing pictures of the great depression like it's something to consider especially. the way it's presented in this thread is kind of bad. I'm not trying to defend no minimum wage, but I am calling you guys out on how you're not really saying anything, except that you're clearly mad. any real points made are so scarce and so embedded in this hate thing, that I suddenly feel that most of you shouldn't have posted here in the first place, because your input is detrimental to debate. I became incredibly unsatisfied in the way most of of the people here treated information in a forum, and I feel the need to say something because I think this mentality is a greater injustice than the topic itself.[/QUOTE] Except the fact that we've been arguing for him for 7 pages as to why no minimum wage doesn't work, and he doesn't listen to the fact that it doesn't work. Sure, a lot of the posts are just senseless, but at this point, theres no arguing with him, this is a person thats advocating child labor and sweat shops. I'm not writing like I'm "Bidding for an election", and honestly, I'm not going to bother with someone that says what OP says either. Theres the right to an opinion, and I think people deserve having their own opinions, but the fact is, some peoples opinions are insane and shouldn't even be allowed to exist period because of the shear stupidity they are. Would you support someone that believes the Earth is flat and that the ones who think its round are the ignorant ones? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is something thats been proven not to work, and will only create more issues, so supporting it in itself seems ignorant and stupid. This can only work to such a limited degree that trying it is utterly pointless and silly, and people have exemplified that its wrong over and over. If thats not good enough, then obviously nothing is, because there are a lot of non-hateful counterarguments from people with real lives and real world experiences VS the VERY small amount of people, 1, 2, maybe 3 actually supporting no minimum wage. "but you also claim that you don't need to, because you come from a higher plane of authority and knowledge in the matter, when you clearly do not." I never said I come from some higher plane of Authority, I'm simply a guy who knows enough common sense to filter out the bullshit OP is spewing. Don't start twisting words please. I'm also a guy who knows that many people CANNOT LIVE WITH "UNDER MINIMUM WAGE", because even with minimum wage, they're barely even scrapping by. So simply remove it is going to make things far worse. People will be forced to commit more crimes, and purchase less. This has been repeated over and over, but no progress has been made. maybe this would work in a third world country, but this isn't a third world country, America doesn't work that way. If you people can't listen to the voice of reason, then WHY bother being reasonable? EDIT: Also, you have the right that to your opinion, i'll defend your right, I just won't agree with it

it's okay pepin i still think you're cool

I'd rather be paid $7.25 an hour than be paid nothing because I can't get a job since no one would be hiring.

Hey guys, I think Pepin's on to something here! His glorious capitalist vision of the future: [IMG]http://team-antarctica.wikispaces.com/file/view/industrial-revolution-children-labor.jpg/198363504/industrial-revolution-children-labor.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.glogster.com/media/5/23/42/93/23429310.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=rinoaff33;32291367]Hey guys, I think Pepin's on to something here! His glorious capitalist vision of the future: [IMG]http://team-antarctica.wikispaces.com/file/view/industrial-revolution-children-labor.jpg/198363504/industrial-revolution-children-labor.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.glogster.com/media/5/23/42/93/23429310.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] stop, we've been there, it wont go to such extreme, but it wont be good, either

[release][h2]HEY PEPIN[/h2][/release] [QUOTE=Zeke129;32277935]Hey OP do you support child labour in the United States you said you support it in France for some reason so answer my question please[/QUOTE]

zeke havent you seen his new title

I'm in favor of Minimum Wage. It guarantees that all workers will have enough at least to eat in the end of the month. It kinda works here in brazil, while not giving suchhhh a gooood salary in the end of the month, it keeps people from being totally ripped off their skin.

Alright who's the brilliant bastard that gave him that title.

Left with no regulations, companies will inevitably abuse there power to increase there profits. It doesn't really have to do with the morality of the people at the top, its just natural the the strongest will take things to far to stay competitive. And if they didn't they would be run out of business. Companies should have regulations, like the minimum wage. You don't want corporations going out of control with power.

Heres your problem: Strawberry picking company, with no minimum wage i pay my workers a dollar a day. (The point of this argument is that there is no actual skill required to work) If you have a problem with it, then your fired. There are loads of people who would love to have your job. Also to the OP: Have you see the TV show "30 days on minimum wage" doubt you have. and to piss in your cup even more, do you know that when minimum wage was created it was supposed to be raised every few years to adjust for inflation and higher costs of necessities? But guess what! It hasn't increased nearly to the point that it should thanks to congress! And im sure you can figure their reasoning out, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32291592][release][h2]HEY PEPIN[/h2][/release] Hey OP do you support child labour in the United States you said you support it in France for some reason so answer my question please[/QUOTE] Well of course. People exist who aren't worth shit after all ([i]DEM POORZ[/i])and it's not like there are [b]ANY OTHER GODDAMNED POSSIBILITIES FOR OUTCOME OTHER THAN PROSTITUTION OR STARVATION IF THEY DON'T WORK.[/b] It's not like we could... NO [b] DATS SOSHAWIST![/b] [QUOTE=Lankist;32291670]zeke havent you seen his new title[/QUOTE][QUOTE=healthpoint;32292159]Alright who's the brilliant bastard that gave him that title.[/QUOTE] Thank you, it was worth the money.

[QUOTE=Remscar;32292312]Heres your problem: Strawberry picking company, with no minimum wage i pay my workers a dollar a day. (The point of this argument is that there is no actual skill required to work) If you have a problem with it, then your fired. There are loads of people who would love to have your job.[/QUOTE] For a dollar a day, are you high? No one can live off of that in the US.

you paid for that? Christ how much did you pay? [editline]14th September 2011[/editline] I mean it's funny and all but jesus

How did I miss this gem of a thread?

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;32290256]What you don't seem to understand is that if you're unskilled, you're expendable. Why bother negotiating and fighting an employee when you can just find someone to do it cheaper, no questions asked. Employers controls employees, not the other way around.[/QUOTE] Except there is floor to what people consider to be worth their time. I made this point with illegal immigrants working below minimum wage, though they are willing to do that, they aren't willing to work at wage that would not be beneficial to them. Certainly there would be some underbidding, but not at all the point where people would be making labor contacts that do not benefit themselves. I'm also trying to figure out who would be doing it cheaper in this scenario, and all I can come with are the people who minimum wage unemploys. [QUOTE=Zeke129;32291592]Hey OP do you support child labour in the United States you said you support it in France for some reason so answer my question please[/QUOTE] Unless I mistyped something which is possible as I'm typing up some decent sized responses all at once, what I remember saying is that it wouldn't be acceptable in France. I believe I gave France as an example because the word overseas came into play. I don't feel like going back, but it should be pretty clear that I only said child labor should be permitted in developed countries where it is not a means to survive.

uhh illegal immigrants do work a wage that is beneficial to them. Most illegal immigrants send their wage back home to their families. A dollar goes a long fucking way in mexico

Instead you should have spent the money on needy kids. Pepin knowing poor kids are getting fed without working 12 hours would make him angrier. [sp]The hate pepin bandwagon is moving to fast to jump off now[/sp]

[I]Intention Does Not Matter Certainly nobody would argue the the intention of a piece of legislation somehow affects its total outcome. You could make an argument as to how the law is interpreted, but as far as the minimum wage law goes, there is only one interpretation. If the opening example appears to be true and backed up in practice, why would it differ when backed by people with good intentions?"[/I] A statute does not have intention itself, it does however implied intention- both are different. The intention of parliament is formulated into the aim of the act/statute/law. The reason being for this, is to provide members of the judiciary with discretion in the form of subjective interpretation. Intention doesn't matter until there is a judicial direction after the judges interpretation of the concerned act. The aforementioned IS the intention of parliament as the judge subjectively believes it to be. It's hard to digest. Regards. JG

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;32286564]Most consumers don't give two shits if a company is humanitarian or not, they just care about the product.[/QUOTE] Well most consumers are fucking idiots like the OP.