[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38847642]why shouldn't private sale be legal? what are you supposed to do with that old hunting rifle you never use anymore?
should private sale be illegal for knives too? those were designed for killing as well[/QUOTE]
I care much more about making sure guns aren't in the hands of the wrong people than someone upset they can't make money back on their gun. And the comparison to knives is foolish; guns make killing much more easier and efficient than a knife would. They are on two separate levels.
[quote=Ridge]Selling to a dealer will net you only about half of what the gun is worth, because the shop needs to make a profit. So you're essentially screwed out of half the value of your property.[/quote]
I think people getting "screwed" out of making enough money back on their gun is acceptable if it means we at least [I]attempt[/I] to make sure that the people that own guns are properly evaluated. Australia seems to be just fine with prohibited private sale and restricted government sale, and they have 10.5 years without a mass shooting and accelerated declines in firearm related deaths ([URL]http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/assets/pdfs/Other-Research/2006InjuryPrevent.pdf[/URL]).
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38847642]why shouldn't private sale be legal? what are you supposed to do with that old hunting rifle you never use anymore?
should private sale be illegal for knives too? those were designed for killing as well[/QUOTE]
If someone's holding a knife you can grab a chair and bang them on the head with it. The same is not true for a gun.
banning guns will just cause the same problem as prohibition of drugs;
black markets will profiteer from it and thus will cause a lot more gang related/gun related violence than you see now.
firearm licensing works much better.
yes, there are some cases in the UK of people using licensed firearms to kill intentionally, but it is substantially lower than an uncontrolled country and also than a country where they are banned
because i don't think gang related gun crimes (from drug trafficking and weapon trafficking in the countries where firearms are banned etc) are taken into account with these stats.
tl;dr, banning firearms simply wont work for the USA, introduce a strict licensing system like the UK. it wont stop gun crime, ut will reduce it more than a ban
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38847642]why shouldn't private sale be legal? what are you supposed to do with that old hunting rifle you never use anymore?
should private sale be illegal for knives too? those were designed for killing as well[/QUOTE]
Well no because you need knifes in everyday life to prepare food, cut bits of rope, carve wood, etc. You don't need a gun in everyday life.
I think I could accept licensing to buy a gun (not to own one) if it respected the 2nd amendment, and if it was a fast and efficient process.
To the people who want to restrict private sales: You do know that restricting private sales doesn't guarantee anything right? In these mass shootings shooter sometimes just steal guns, or in the case of Columbine, are given guns by friends who purchased them. Very rarely has their been a shooter who purchased their weapon in a private deal.
I say [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_Czech_Republic]Czech Republic's gun laws[/url] are a prime example of how to do things. Licenses and sometimes registrations are required, but once you file all the paperwork and prove you're sane and honest, you can buy pretty much anything.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38850208]Well no because you need knifes in everyday life to prepare food, cut bits of rope, carve wood, etc. You don't need a gun in everyday life.[/QUOTE]
Cutting food is the only applicable use out of your examples in modern society.
[editline]16th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Registered User;38840042][b]December 14, 2012:[/b] At least 27 dead, approximately 18 of whom were children in a Connecticut elementary school.
[b]December 11, 2012:[/b] One injured, two killed at a mall by gunman in Clackamas, OR.
[b]December 8, 2012:[/b] Four killed and two injured on the Tule Indian Reservation including the shooter's three children, only one of whom survived the initial attack.
[b]September 28, 2012:[/b] Five killed by a recently fired employee in Minneapolis, MN.
[b]August 24, 2012:[/b] Two killed, 9 wounded in 'Empire State Building' shooting.
[b]August 5, 2012:[/b] Seven killed in Sikh temple shooting in Oak Creek, WI.
[b]July 20, 2012:[/b] Twenty killed and 58 wounded in Aurora, CO.
[b]May 30, 2012:[/b] Five killed, one wounded in mass shooting at Cafe Racer.
[b]April 3, 2012:[/b] Ten shot, seven killed in Oakland's Oikos University.
[b]March 31, 2012:[/b] Two killed and 12 injured in a shooting outside Miami funeral home.
[b]March 2, 2012:[/b] Fourteen injured in a mass shooting at concert in Tempe, AZ.
[b]February 27, 2012:[/b] Five shot, three dead in a Chardon, OH school.
[b]February 21, 2012:[/b] Four killed in a Korean Spa shooting in Atlanta, GA.
[b]December 25, 2011:[/b] Seven killed in Grapevine, TX on Christmas Day.
[b]December 1, 2011:[/b] Four killed in Bay City, TX mass shooting.
When will it ever STOP?[/QUOTE]
Just wanted to toss this out there...
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States#1700s[/url]
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38850208]You don't need a gun in everyday life.[/QUOTE]
You don't strictly need anything for your everyday life, except food, water and a shelter.
The [I]need[/I] argument is such a crap one.
[QUOTE=Ridge;38851502]Cutting food is the only applicable use out of your examples in modern society.
[editline]16th December 2012[/editline]
Just wanted to toss this out there...
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States#1700s[/url][/QUOTE]
See, don't need an "Assault weapon" to kill people
[editline]17th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Black Milano;38851791]You don't strictly need anything for your everyday life, except food, water and a shelter.
The [I]need[/I] argument is such a crap one.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Life is boring and pointless if we can't get what we want
How are mental checkups performed anyway? Can't it be easily faked if you're not a delusional person? It's not like physical where they can do a scan and tell if you have an injury. Mass shooters were insane but not exactly stupid.
[QUOTE=Ridge;38851502]Cutting food is the only applicable use out of your examples in modern society.
[/QUOTE]
I can think of at least 5 occupations where a handy folding knife or multitool for quickly cutting various materials would be needed.
[QUOTE=download;38851799]See, don't need an "Assault weapon" to kill people[/QUOTE]
The incident in the 1700s was part of a war.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38852388]The incident in the 1700s was part of a war.[/QUOTE]
I fail to see how this interferes with the claim you quoted.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38850208]Well no because you need knifes in everyday life to prepare food, cut bits of rope, carve wood, etc. You don't need a gun in everyday life.[/QUOTE]
You may. For example if you enjoy hunting the animals on your land? Or need to protect your farm from bears/coyotes etc?
[QUOTE=matrix_1995;38853204]I fail to see how this interferes with the claim you quoted.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't a crazy guy randomly killing people.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38850208]Well no because you need knifes in everyday life to prepare food, cut bits of rope, carve wood, etc. You don't need a gun in everyday life.[/QUOTE]
You don't need alcohol in your daily life, yet drunk driving claimed roughly the same amount of lives in 2010 in the U.S. as did firearms.
Shouldn't there be more alcohol control if it presents a problem that is at least as big as firearms?
I don't get it why american's have such a boner for firearms. You guys don't really seem to value human life.
[editline]16th December 2012[/editline]
I mean, why do you care so much about your fucking guns and bitch so hard when somebody tries to take them away from you?
[QUOTE=Uberpro;38853735]I don't get it why american's have such a boner for firearms. You guys don't really seem to value human life.
[editline]16th December 2012[/editline]
I mean, why do you care so much about your fucking guns and bitch so hard when somebody tries to take them away from you?[/QUOTE]
Because guns are awesome. No really. Recreational gun collecting and shooting is very entertaining.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;38854102]Because guns are awesome. No really. Recreational gun collecting and shooting is very entertaining.[/QUOTE]
And that's exactly your problem. Your love and boner for guns comes with a very, very high price.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=itisjuly;38854102]Because guns are awesome. No really. Recreational gun collecting and shooting is very entertaining.[/QUOTE]
I expect a few of the killers started off with that mentality.
[QUOTE=Hatley;38854188]I expect a few of the killers started off with that mentality.[/QUOTE]
Are you really suggesting that the guns caused them to want to kill people
That's literally the most transparent slippery slope argument I've seen this week
Have you considered the idea that 99.9 percent of gun owners don't shoot up schools
Punishing everyone for the actions of a few is a horrible idea
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38854303]Are you really suggesting that the guns caused them to want to kill people
That's literally the most transparent slippery slope argument I've seen this week
Have you considered the idea that 99.9 percent of gun owners don't shoot up schools
Punishing everyone for the actions of a few is a horrible idea[/QUOTE]
I did not say all of them. But it is a possibility that one of the killers might have ended up becoming overly obsessed, culminating in them testing their weapons out on other people.
[QUOTE=Hatley;38854344]I did not say all of them. But it is a possibility that one of the killers might have ended up becoming overly obsessed, culminating in them testing their weapons out on other people.[/QUOTE]
That's completely baseless speculation but i'll just skip past that
That's not the fault of the guns, though. That kind of logic is called a mental illness. Mental illnesses should be treated, that's what will prevent this kind of thing. Restricting access to legal guns only harms the legal gun owner. If someone wants to shoot up a school that badly, they can easily find illegal weapons.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38854457]That's completely baseless speculation but i'll just skip past that
That's not the fault of the guns, though. That kind of logic is called a mental illness. Mental illnesses should be treated, that's what will prevent this kind of thing. Restricting access to legal guns only harms the legal gun owner. If someone wants to shoot up a school that badly, they can easily find illegal weapons.[/QUOTE]
My speculation was based on how mental illness often results in the subject becoming more obsessive over things than one without mental illness.
You don't need to [b]ban[/b] guns, just make it harder to get one...
Instead of selling a gun to every fricking retard, make sure he is able to handle a weapon carefully and knows when to use it and when not.
But talking about the USA, it doesn't matter anymore anyways. I don't wanna insult anybody, I know there are people who actually just collect guns or use them carefully. But seriously, what do you want to do about it where even every low IQ fool has a gun? Even if you change the law, you can't just take away everybody's gun. And further, people are used to what the law currently is like. So changing it probably would only lead to a shitload of demonstrations, maybe even violent ones.
[QUOTE=Hatley;38854525]My speculation was based on how mental illness often results in the subject becoming more obsessive over things than one without mental illness.[/QUOTE]
Though I don't see your point. Replace guns with videogames, the same "argument" can be applied. Oh he got obsessed with mass effect and decided to shoot someone up.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;38854548]Oh he got obsessed with mass effect and decided to shoot someone up.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't "liking Mass Effect" just from the completely unrelated dude with the same name, that got hatemail after some gonzo newsman said he was the killer?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;38854548]Though I don't see your point. Replace guns with videogames, the same "argument" can be applied. Oh he got obsessed with mass effect and decided to shoot someone up.[/QUOTE]
Difference is somebody who collects video games doesn't have immediate access to weaponry via his hobby. Like AlienSoldier said, it just needs to be more difficult to get ahold of a gun.
[QUOTE=Valnar;38853550]You don't need alcohol in your daily life, yet drunk driving claimed roughly the same amount of lives in 2010 in the U.S. as did firearms.
Shouldn't there be more alcohol control if it presents a problem that is at least as big as firearms?[/QUOTE]
I don't know as I don't know what the rules are in the US for drink driving.
Although if you're caught drink driving in the UK then you're licence is revoked. The difference is, how many drunk people got behind the wheel with the intention to kill compared to the number of people who used a gun on another person with the intention to kill
[QUOTE=Hatley;38854576]Difference is somebody who collects video games doesn't have immediate access to weaponry via his hobby. Like AlienSoldier said, it just needs to be more difficult to get ahold of a gun.[/QUOTE]
Then yes, let's make it more difficult for the mentally ill to get guns. Stricter background checks, force people to keep guns in safes. As long as you don't ban any firearm, just keep them out of the hands of the irresponsible, it's perfectly fine with me, and honestly it should be with any gun owner. The problem, at least in the case of the US, is that since we only have a two party system at this point, senators and house reps either want a total ban on guns or absolutely no regulation, which are both horrible ideas.
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