[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;50320818]Dunno why you're bein so fuckin pessimistic about this.[/QUOTE]
It's all written in his posts, try reading them. Personally I don't see an average person wanting to be literally "shot" through a sealed tube.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50321600]37 second margin is too small for safety standards. even india is hesitant with margins that small
the difference is that the technology and infrastructure for normal railways already exists and can be adapted at much less expense but with greater returns
hyperloop is going to struggle to get the infrastructure built unless the government steps in with eminent domain really hard. there's also mentioning that a lot of countries are already committed to HSR so it would be difficult to convince them to change to the hyperloop when its not going to be much better than HSR[/QUOTE]
A headway of 37 seconds is too small for safety standards? The headway of a car on the freeway is less then 5 seconds, and those are controlled by humans generally without much, if any, safety systems.
[QUOTE=Cold;50321780]A headway of 37 seconds is too small for safety standards? The headway of a car on the freeway is less then 10 seconds, and those are controlled by humans.[/QUOTE]
we're talking about a mass transit public transportation system which has very different legislation and regulations
it would have to overcome a lot of legal hurdles to even be allowed to have a clearance as low as 60 seconds - and that's assuming they just don't get shot down. safety regulations are there for a reason and i don't see this becoming a reality unless they're willing to accept like 5 minutes between each pod.
remember that a whole lot wrong can go wrong in a short period of time. it's why a few extra seconds make the difference between life and death on a highway.
37 seconds is not going to fly because it blatantly flouts safety regulations for public transport
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50321814]we're talking about a mass transit public transportation system which has very different legislation and regulations
it would have to overcome a lot of legal hurdles to even be allowed to have a clearance as low as 60 seconds - and that's assuming they just don't get shot down
safety regulations are there for a reason and i don't see this becoming a reality unless they're willing to accept like 5 minutes between each pod.[/QUOTE]
There's no safety regulations for this yet as it doesn't exist yet. Some of course would be developed but they would be created in a way that makes sense. Regulators don't just arbitrarily slap on safety regulations onto things without taking the the technology into account. There's no arbitrary clearance time regulation that would apply to all technologies arbitrarily.
[QUOTE=Morgen;50321855]There's no safety regulations for this yet as it doesn't exist yet. Some of course would be developed but they would be created in a way that makes sense. Regulators don't just arbitrarily slap on safety regulations onto things without taking the the technology into account. There's no arbitrary clearance time regulation that would apply to all technologies arbitrarily.[/QUOTE]
i'm pretty sure that they'd apply similar regulations from similar areas
we already have maglev with safety regulations, so i'd assume those would be adopted first for this
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50321814]we're talking about a mass transit public transportation system which has very different legislation and regulations
it would have to overcome a lot of legal hurdles to even be allowed to have a clearance as low as 60 seconds - and that's assuming they just don't get shot down. safety regulations are there for a reason and i don't see this becoming a reality unless they're willing to accept like 5 minutes between each pod.
remember that a whole lot wrong can go wrong in a short period of time. it's why a few extra seconds make the difference between life and death on a highway.
37 seconds is not going to fly because it blatantly flouts safety regulations for public transport[/QUOTE]
This depends entirely on how the system works and how secure it is.
You're judging a system that practically hasn't been invented yet.
[QUOTE=Cold;50321780]A headway of 37 seconds is too small for safety standards? The headway of a car on the freeway is less then 5 seconds, and those are controlled by humans generally without much, if any, safety systems.[/QUOTE]
Cars* don't reach speeds of mach 3. They also aren't operating in conditions designed to be nearly frictionless.
*consumer
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50323094]Cars* don't reach speeds of mach 3. They also aren't operating in conditions designed to be nearly frictionless.
*consumer[/QUOTE]
They also don't have braking systems designed to handle those conditions. They have appropriate brakes for their use condition that allows them to get away with < 5 sec lead times.
Turns out that if you properly design something you are okay with not that much leeway.
[QUOTE=Morgen;50323445]They also don't have braking systems designed to handle those conditions. They have appropriate brakes for their use condition that allows them to get away with < 5 sec lead times.
Turns out that if you properly design something you are okay with not that much leeway.[/QUOTE]
Maglevs don't have brakes in the conventional sense. A serious failure could very well knock out power, or the control systems. At which point you have a train moving at the speed of a rifle shot. Depending on how it's designed, it could easily fly more than a few miles down the track. Remember, there's extremely minimal friction involved.
I feel like you, and several other people, are seriously underestimating the amount of kinetic energy involved here. Remember, it's velocity squared. That gets really big, really fast. A collision between two objects with a relative impact velocity of 100mph has a [i]fraction[/i] of the energy of something moving at 800. A car can be designed to structurally absorb the impact of a collision at 100mph with relative safety. Doing the same for something moving at 500 is not just a simple case of adding 5 times the crumple zone. The human body can take massive impulses, but sustained g forces can and will cause major injuries, if not outright death.
[QUOTE=paul simon;50321916]This depends entirely on how the system works and how secure it is.
You're judging a system that practically hasn't been invented yet.[/QUOTE]
yes but we already have a lot of similar things that have been already invented plus the benefit of the science of physics to tell us what would happen when large objects are moving
in public transportation they demand that you reserve a lot of room in case of a fuckup because this is peoples safety you are dealing with
37 seconds is simply too small when we are dealing with what are essentially train carriages hurtling down vacuum tubes at subsonic speeds. remember we're actually dealing with humans here, and that you can't just assume that 37 seconds is somehow going to be enough to adequately avoid disaster. theory isn't quite the same as practice, which is why a machine which may be predicted to make 90 cakes an hour might only actually make 75 - because mechanical faults and human error are always there
if the insane proposal for a minutes spacing inbetween them actually goes through - then somebody has severely fucked up in terms of safety regulations
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50324577]yes but we already have a lot of similar things that have been already invented plus the benefit of the science of physics to tell us what would happen when large objects are moving
in public transportation they demand that you reserve a lot of room in case of a fuckup because this is peoples safety you are dealing with
37 seconds is simply too small when we are dealing with what are essentially train carriages hurtling down vacuum tubes at subsonic speeds. remember we're actually dealing with humans here, and that you can't just assume that 37 seconds is somehow going to be enough to adequately avoid disaster. theory isn't quite the same as practice, which is why a machine which may be predicted to make 90 cakes an hour might only actually make 75 - because mechanical faults and human error are always there
if the insane proposal for a minutes spacing inbetween them actually goes through - then somebody has severely fucked up in terms of safety regulations[/QUOTE]
Maybe their safety standards are perfectly acceptable. Who knows.
In any case, the project is in early development and I seriously don't see why you're concerned about safety before safety tests have even been conducted.
Don't you think these very smart people will come to reasonable conclusions?
[QUOTE=paul simon;50324783]Maybe their safety standards are perfectly acceptable. Who knows.
In any case, the project is in early development and I seriously don't see why you're concerned about safety before safety tests have even been conducted.
Don't you think these very smart people will come to reasonable conclusions?[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that in these tests they aren't going to be doing a minutes spacing inbetween pods
the "1 minute spacing" is from a reddit post because the guy wanted to fudge the numbers so that it would look like it could compete with HSR
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50323505]Maglevs don't have brakes in the conventional sense. A serious failure could very well knock out power, or the control systems. At which point you have a train moving at the speed of a rifle shot. Depending on how it's designed, it could easily fly more than a few miles down the track. Remember, there's extremely minimal friction involved.
I feel like you, and several other people, are seriously underestimating the amount of kinetic energy involved here. Remember, it's velocity squared. That gets really big, really fast. A collision between two objects with a relative impact velocity of 100mph has a [i]fraction[/i] of the energy of something moving at 800. A car can be designed to structurally absorb the impact of a collision at 100mph with relative safety. Doing the same for something moving at 500 is not just a simple case of adding 5 times the crumple zone. The human body can take massive impulses, but sustained g forces can and will cause major injuries, if not outright death.[/QUOTE]
These things are designed with emergency passive friction brakes in the event of a power loss. Maintaining 2gs of force while breaking wouldn't kill anyone, it might make a few people sick but that's it.
37 seconds is a lot of safety buffer when you have several passives and an entirely computer controlled system. Chances are if it hasn't stopped in the original stopping distance + 37 seconds time then the brakes aren't working at all and your fucked anyway since your relying on air resistance that barely exists to slow you down at that point.
When I was a little kid I had an idéa about this magnetic propulsion. Feels so weird seeing it like this today.
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