The Spiritualism, Sacred Geometry, and Consciousness thread! Complete with huge OP! - General

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;35693594]want proof? go drop some acid and tell me what you saw is real[/QUOTE] In a way, what he does see [i]is[/i] real. All the distortions you see on acid are caused by certain chemical reactions and imbalances and so forth (I'm not really certain on the exact details) caused by its ingestion. Therefore, what you see on acid can be measured in some way Personal experience isn't necessarily grounds for disqualification of a theory, as ludicrous as it may seem, but the experience has to be backed up by some sort of measurable quantity in order to be true. Take acid again, for example. Personal experiences caused by acid can differ drastically between users. However, what they see, regardless of how vivid the hallucinations may or may not be, can be measured by looking at chemicals created, reacting, and so forth in the brain. More to the point, if someone believed that they had a vision or something, that does not necessarily disqualify whether or not they actually did have a vision. Basically, it is very well possible that he did have a vision. What it [i]could[/i] disqualify is whether or not a certain theory could accurately describe the phenomenon. For example, if I said certain toxins in the air might have caused the vision but there were no such toxins ever identified in the lungs or in the brain, that would disqualify the theory. Now, granted, that's a lot more logical than some of the bullshit that is in the OP, but the point is that the vision [i]was[/i] caused by something (under the assumption, of course, that there was a vision), and just because someone had the vision while another person under the same circumstances did not does not necessarily disqualify that something happened. Basically, the theory might be bullshit but what actually happened might not. The problem with the great lot of the theories in the OP is that a good lot of them are backed by psuedoscience or just general fiction, but that doesn't necessarily means any effects by them are untrue (I'm talking more about astral projection, meditation, and more "feelable" things here, not as much the more psuedomathematical and other things of that nature). Meditation, for example, does have a lot of research that backs up that it [i]does[/i] exist and work (and is actually being considered as a possible treatment for anxiety), but not necessarily in the way that theories in the OP might describe. I could go searching around for the actual studies, if you really need a source for this.

don't give me that, you know exactly what i meant when i said "real"

[QUOTE=sdwise;35693392]Wow, that went way over your head. Ok, let me put it this way: There is no wisdom in steadfast, unshakable belief. A true thinker will question his beliefs all the time. Kind of a Socratic thing, you may have heard of it.[/QUOTE] Dropping quotes doesn't make you seem any smarter. Especially not with what you're trying to defend.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;35693835]don't give me that, you know exactly what i meant when i said "real"[/QUOTE] I did. The actual hallucinations are perceived but not actually physically manifested into the world and therefore not visible to other people, in which case you are right. However, there is a logical explanation for why the hallucinations are taking place, like chemicals in the brain, which [i]can[/i] be scientifically measured. That is my point. What I'm saying is there might be a logical explanation for the things in the OP. If someone receives a vision and explains it with a really illogical theory, that does [i]NOT[/i] imply that the vision itself was not real. A good lot of the theories in the OP are illogical, but that does not necessarily disqualify anything actually perceived by those involved, it just means that something else is causing it. [b]Essentially, the cause can be bullshit, but that doesn't mean the effect is.[/b]

To be fair, I'd say I'm in the prime demographic for the stuff in the OP. I'm a pot smoking, guitar playing, easy going, introspective kind of guy. You could say I'm a pussy. Or a douche. Almost the prime candidate for new age bullshit. I like old stuff like country joe and the fish singing about vietnam, and bob dylan spilling forth esoteric metaphor about social issues, I'm on it. I'm also way into any kind of ancient stuff, the ancient east, ancient religion east and west, ancient civilizations east and west, all that. I mean I'm totally there dude, I love this kind of stuff and I like to think I know at least a little bit about at least some of it. I could tell you much more mind-blowing shit about ancient civilization than this baloney, and it's stuff for which we have actual tangible archaeological evidence. So yeah if there's really anything mystical hidden in the clouds or on the rocks or in the body or the spirit or whatever, I'd definitely have found out about it by now and I'd definitely be the prime demographic for believing it. But even I'm saying, you [I]really[/I] should educate yourself. Pay [I]much[/I] more attention in school. Anyone who's ever been in a science or math class will laugh at any of this.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35693471]This is the exact philosophy that creates dissension among people. The inability to consider that maybe, just maybe, none of us knows a damn thing. Isn't that the true theory of knowledge? We do the best with what we have and the knowledge that we know nothing.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure it's just you who doesn't know a damn thing. [QUOTE=sdwise;35693540]Absolutely. My personal experience is just as reliable as any data.[/QUOTE] No, it isn't. Your personal experience is worth absolutely nothing to us or anyone else. It's a [i]personal[/i] experience. [QUOTE=sdwise;35693561]And I took that risk, friend. I know the majority of people can't comprehend or accept these concepts. And there is plenty of it that I find a bit too outrageous or better explained through other means.[/QUOTE] Nearly anyone can comprehend these concepts. We choose not to accept them simply because they're based in anecdotal evidence, which again, is worthless. [editline]23rd April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Fhenexx;35693878]The actual hallucinations are perceived but not actually physically manifested into the world and therefore not visible to other people, in which case you are right. However, there is a logical explanation for why the hallucinations are taking place, like chemicals in the brain, which [i]can[/i] be scientifically measured. What I'm saying is there might be a logical explanation for the things in the OP. If someone receives a vision and explains it with a really illogical theory, that does [i]NOT[/i] imply that the vision itself was not real. A good lot of the theories in the OP are illogical, but that does not necessarily disqualify anything actually perceived by those involved, it just means that something else is causing it. [b]Essentially, the cause can be bullshit, but that doesn't mean the effect is.[/b][/QUOTE] I do agree with you, but I'd like to point out that hallucinations are just that. Hallucinations. To imply that anyone can do anything at all outside of their own mind with this stuff (such as channeling) is bullshit as well. So the only thing that has any creditable effect in the OP is forced hallucinations, and even then, the listed causes are bullshit.

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose :) It's easier to assume you've got it all figured out rather than see how all of these things connect with the things we learn in school (some of which is baseless, by the way) It is the prerogative of the closed-minded to remain in such a state. As I recall, none of you who so avidly oppose these views have any experience with them them. But I suppose that's the difference between you and me. You like spoonfed "knowledge," while I value actual experience.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35693981]Ignorance is bliss, I suppose :) [/QUOTE] I guess that explains why you are so happy, and I am depressed.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35693981][b]Ignorance is bliss[/b], I suppose [b]:)[/b] [b]It's easier to assume you've got it all figured[/b] out rather than see how all of these things connect with the things we learn in school ([b]some of which is baseless, by the way[/b]) [b]It is the prerogative of the closed-minded to remain in such a state.[/b] As I recall, none of you who so avidly oppose these views have any experience with them them. But I suppose that's the difference between you and me. You like spoonfed "knowledge," while I value actual experience.[/QUOTE] You're so hypocritical it hurts. As for your "actual experience", I'll just quote myself. [QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;35693935]I'd like to point out that hallucinations are just that. Hallucinations. To imply that anyone can do anything at all outside of their own mind with this stuff (such as channeling) is bullshit as well. So the only thing that has any creditable effect in the OP is forced hallucinations, and even then, the listed causes are bullshit.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sdwise;35693981]Ignorance is bliss, I suppose :) It's easier to assume you've got it all figured out rather than see how all of these things connect with the things we learn in school (some of which is baseless, by the way) It is the prerogative of the closed-minded to remain in such a state. As I recall, none of you who so avidly oppose these views have any experience with them them. But I suppose that's the difference between you and me. You like spoonfed "knowledge," while I value actual experience.[/QUOTE] actual experience means nothing towards proof you are living a lie

I put on my robe and wizard hat.... no but really, I don't like this stuff. My grandmother fell into this trap and is still stuck there. Money trap for gullible people and frauds who make loadsmone off of this stuff. And that "neither provable nor disprovable" thing is also bullshit. That's a logical fallacy. If you affirm something to be true, then it can not be accepted as such, using an objective and scrutinizing mind, without evidence to support it. "Neither provable nor disprovable" is not an excuse.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35693981]Ignorance is bliss, I suppose :) It's easier to assume you've got it all figured out rather than see how all of these things connect with the things we learn in school (some of which is baseless, by the way) It is the prerogative of the closed-minded to remain in such a state. As I recall, none of you who so avidly oppose these views have any experience with them them. But I suppose that's the difference between you and me. You like spoonfed "knowledge," while I value actual experience.[/QUOTE] I do have experience with them. I've controlled lucid dreams, experienced sleep paralysis, tried various recreational drugs, and observed the complexities of the fractal quality of nature. I've seen the word on a macro scale and on a micro scale. I've seen some crazy shit. Yet I am entirely 100% against everything in your OP. How could that be if the experience was so relevant? I'm beginning to feel like the only experience you feel that is relevant to you is your own. That is very self-centered, and this kind of self-centered thinking is essentially what limited Galileo and Kepler from fulfilling their true potential in their field. They never saw beyond themselves and their own misconceptions and irrational beliefs based on misinterpreted observations, just like you. A good chunk of this specific episode of Cosmos is about Kepler's story, maybe understanding his experience in life will help you to understand your own. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql9nEAPMqBs[/media]

Thats ok, little sheeple. Run back you your shepherds. You honestly have no place in this thread anyway, considering the first few lines of the op. I concede to the fact that none of you can step out of yourselves long enough to see the beauty, the connection, the sublime perfection of admitting the spiritual. When you experience the things I've experienced, you realize that what matters is not what others think of your beliefs. I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things. Goodnight, friends. I hope you all can grow beyond yourselves.

I was going to post this on your wall after seeing your convo with ILY, but it was too long, so you can read it here. --- So you know where you went wrong with that thread: 1. You presented it as facts with evidence, rather than something that exists and is simply interesting to look at. (Regardless of your disclaimer). 2. You continuously defended it, regardless of what anyone said. This is especially stupid if you yourself don't buy it/most of it. 3. Personal experiences are anecdotal evidence and bullshit. Just because something happened to you, does not mean it happened because of what you said. 4. Building on point two, stop being such a hypocrite. If you don't believe it, present it as "Hey, I don't believe in this stuff, but I thought it'd be an interesting read." Trust me, that would of gone so much better. Don't defend a turd. 5. Don't tell people right off the bat that it cannot be dis-proven or proven. That's a bad excuse. Never, ever tell people not to scrutinize the information presented. Facepunch, being a dominantly skeptical crowd, while immediately hate you for that. Keep in mind, that could of actually been a decent thread. But it's a simple rule on Facepunch: If it doesn't have evidence and can't be proven, don't present it as such. Had you of said it's an interesting thing to look at and nothing more, you may have gotten some quality responses rather than everyone debunking every word you spit out.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35694116]Thats ok, little sheeple. Run back you your shepherds. You honestly have no place in this thread anyway, considering the first few lines of the op. I concede to the fact that none of you can step out of yourselves long enough to see the beauty, the connection, the sublime perfection of admitting the spiritual. When you experience the things I've experienced, you realize that what matters is not what others think of your beliefs. I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things. Goodnight, friends. I hope you all can grow beyond yourselves.[/QUOTE] goodnight hippie have fun dreaming of made up magic shit

[QUOTE=sdwise;35694116]Thats ok, little sheeple. Run back you your shepherds. You honestly have no place in this thread anyway, considering the first few lines of the op. I concede to the fact that none of you can step out of yourselves long enough to see the beauty, the connection, the sublime perfection of admitting the spiritual. When you experience the things I've experienced, you realize that what matters is not what others think of your beliefs. I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things. Goodnight, friends. I hope you all can grow beyond yourselves.[/QUOTE] I will admit to you that it frustrates me that you continually dismiss the entirety of my posts. I'm sure that it will give you personal gratification to hear that, because you are clearly a troll and you clearly are posting only for the express purpose of getting a reaction out of people. If you aren't doing this, you will actually respond to me. Also anyone who in serious conversation uses the word sheeple is automatically either a troll or a complete asshole, bar none.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35694116]Thats ok, little sheeple. Run back you your shepherds. You honestly have no place in this thread anyway, considering the first few lines of the op.[/QUOTE] We're members of this forum. You posted a thread on this forum. You can be the one to leave if you don't like it. [QUOTE=sdwise;35694116]I concede to the fact that none of you can step out of yourselves long enough to see the beauty, the connection, the sublime perfection of admitting the spiritual. When you experience the things I've experienced, you realize that what matters is not what others think of your beliefs. I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things. Goodnight, friends. I hope you all can grow beyond yourselves.[/QUOTE] You're the one who refuses to look at the evidence. If you truly don't believe in most of this, stop acting like it.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion[/url] [quote]A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.[/quote]

[QUOTE=sdwise;35694116]Thats ok, little sheeple. Run back you your shepherds. You honestly have no place in this thread anyway, considering the first few lines of the op. I concede to the fact that none of you can step out of yourselves long enough to see the beauty, the connection, the sublime perfection of admitting the spiritual. When you experience the things I've experienced, you realize that what matters is not what others think of your beliefs. I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things. Goodnight, friends. I hope you all can grow beyond yourselves.[/QUOTE] You know, I did have respect for you and an interest into some of the stuff (not all because there was a good amount of illogical crap up there, too), and I tried to defend some of the things up there with some success, but considering you continuously failed to accept the possibility that both anything in the OP and your own personal experiences could be explained by theories other than the ones you provided just made me lose any respect I had for you. The same probably goes for many of the other people here, assuming they had any respect for you at all. You probably don't care, though, and I understand it considering we're just a small group of people on a forum, but I still believed it right to inform you of it. I don't care that your beliefs are irrational, as I have some of my own that are irrational, but failing to concede that your beliefs may be explained differently was a bad move on your part.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35694116]Thats ok, little sheeple. Run back you your shepherds. You honestly have no place in this thread anyway, considering the first few lines of the op. I concede to the fact that none of you can step out of yourselves long enough to see the beauty, the connection, the sublime perfection of admitting the spiritual. When you experience the things I've experienced, you realize that what matters is not what others think of your beliefs. I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things. Goodnight, friends. I hope you all can grow beyond yourselves.[/QUOTE] I'm a materialist. There is only the natural world. [quote]I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things.[/quote] Self absorbed bastard.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35693981]Ignorance is bliss, I suppose :) It's easier to assume you've got it all figured out rather than see how all of these things connect with the things we learn in school (some of which is baseless, by the way) It is the prerogative of the closed-minded to remain in such a state. As I recall, none of you who so avidly oppose these views have any experience with them them. But I suppose that's the difference between you and me. You like spoonfed "knowledge," while I value actual experience.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sdwise;35694116]Thats ok, little sheeple. Run back you your shepherds. You honestly have no place in this thread anyway, considering the first few lines of the op. I concede to the fact that none of you can step out of yourselves long enough to see the beauty, the connection, the sublime perfection of admitting the spiritual. When you experience the things I've experienced, you realize that what matters is not what others think of your beliefs. I find myself stressed by and absorbed in greater things. Meaningful things. Goodnight, friends. I hope you all can grow beyond yourselves.[/QUOTE] Hi, If you're going to call everyone who doesn't agree with you sheep could you please not just shrug off the inaccuracies I pointed out in the video you posted. It looks a tad hypocritical. Thanks in advance.

I couldn't be arsed to read(I'm lazy, sue me) but the section on lucid dreaming and astral projection was pretty damn good. congrats you've caught my interest. I'll watch some more videos and see how this goes...hmm I am more open minded than I thought...

[QUOTE=nemmises5;35694536]I couldn't be arsed to read(I'm lazy, sue me) but the section on lucid dreaming and astral projection was pretty damn good. congrats you've caught my interest. I'll watch some more videos and see how this goes...hmm I am more open minded than I thought...[/QUOTE] That's good. You'll want to remain skeptical, but if the information starts to come together in a way that makes sense for you, it's worth consideration. It's a fine line to walk being open minded and susceptible to any old thing. It helps to be a bit cynical ;)

People who actually try to give meaning to their lives by whatever spiritual means generally don't end up on an internet forum.

I watched the video about the "Flower of Life", that was interesting. Until the end when he related it to aliens and crop circles.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35693199]Jesus shit have you even read a science book? I have a big book on explaining why shit works. Its illustrated with mammoths. I could lend you it.[/QUOTE] holy fuck that book was awesome

I'm slightly affronted when people say that if you disregard all fantasies and only look at what's real you'll end up boring and emotionless like Spock. I remember once reading that these are the sort of people who, if dragons existed and you could see them in zoos, and zebras were mythical beings that only lived in folk tales, they'd ignore the dragons and go off looking for zebras. The grass is always greener on the other side of reality. [url=http://facepunch.com/threads/1177975?p=35684334&viewfull=1#post35684334]If[/url] [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_launching.jpg]you[/url] [url=http://www.informath.org/EulerId.jpg]can't[/url] [url=http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BlueMarble/Images/AS17-148-22727_350.jpg]take[/url] [url=http://mechafushigi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jumping_spider_opo_terser_1-500x326.jpg]joy[/url] [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Iceland_Landscape_Rainbow.jpg]in[/url] [url=http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/skyimage/pbdwords.jpg]the[/url] [url=http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/slides/hummingbird2.jpg]"merely"[/url] [url=http://woldlab.caltech.edu/~king/mussagl_manual/images/ucsc_gb_smn1_human_dna.png]real,[/url] [url=http://www.tamieadaya.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/football.jpeg]then[/url] [url=http://politickles.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Berlin-Wall.jpg]your[/url] [url=http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/VJ_Day_Nurse.jpg]life[/url] [url=http://www.headinjury.com/!BRAIM3.jpg]will[/url] [url=http://www.uv.es/jgpausas/he/heAstronauta.jpg]be[/url] [url=http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/163413_479288597199_9445547199_5658562_8388607_n.jpg]truly[/url] [url=http://www.walldecorshops.com/wall_murals/images/4-503large.jpg]empty.[/url]

[QUOTE=Kljunas;35700485]I watched the video about the "Flower of Life", that was interesting. Until the end when he related it to aliens and crop circles.[/QUOTE] I had the same reaction. The whole "aliens" thing is a but of a leap for me to make. [editline]24th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;35700685]I'm slightly affronted when people say that if you disregard all fantasies and only look at what's real you'll end up boring and emotionless like Spock. I remember once reading that these are the sort of people who, if dragons existed and you could see them in zoos, and zebras were mythical beings that only lived in folk tales, they'd ignore the dragons and go off looking for zebras. The grass is always greener on the other side of reality. [url=http://facepunch.com/threads/1177975?p=35684334&viewfull=1#post35684334]If[/url] [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_launching.jpg]you[/url] [url=http://www.informath.org/EulerId.jpg]can't[/url] [url=http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BlueMarble/Images/AS17-148-22727_350.jpg]take[/url] [url=http://mechafushigi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jumping_spider_opo_terser_1-500x326.jpg]joy[/url] [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Iceland_Landscape_Rainbow.jpg]in[/url] [url=http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/skyimage/pbdwords.jpg]the[/url] [url=http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/slides/hummingbird2.jpg]"merely"[/url] [url=http://woldlab.caltech.edu/~king/mussagl_manual/images/ucsc_gb_smn1_human_dna.png]real,[/url] [url=http://www.tamieadaya.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/football.jpeg]then[/url] [url=http://politickles.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Berlin-Wall.jpg]your[/url] [url=http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/VJ_Day_Nurse.jpg]life[/url] [url=http://www.headinjury.com/!BRAIM3.jpg]will[/url] [url=http://www.uv.es/jgpausas/he/heAstronauta.jpg]be[/url] [url=http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/163413_479288597199_9445547199_5658562_8388607_n.jpg]truly[/url] [url=http://www.walldecorshops.com/wall_murals/images/4-503large.jpg]empty.[/url][/QUOTE] This is true. And that's another element to this entire idea. Seeing the beauty in reality and celebrating the universe itself. This is not an affront to reality, it is not meant to detract from the natural world. It can only make it more beautiful.

[QUOTE=sdwise;35702929]This is not an affront to reality, it is not meant to detract from the natural world. It can only make it more beautiful.[/QUOTE] Yes it is. It's either ancient crap that people won't stop clinging onto or stuff invented by recent quacks.

I'm literally in this thread for meditation. Whenever i meditate i kinda block out other people and sounds (Because FUCK other people) and just work through my thoughts, i just thinking about stuff. Lucid dreaming is cool too. Otherwise man, you've got your head in the clouds. If you bring up acupuncture, i agree, it works fucking wonders. My father had constant, tight, chest pains. Doctors shit did squad, another doctors didn't know shit and recomended he try some alternative treatments, since jack worked for him. He began seeing this crazy Chineese dude who stabbed in the chest with needles. Cleared the pain right up. Works, i dunno how, but it isn't through that Chi, energy flow chakra thing though.