• Atheism as state religion
    224 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;21780759]Like Russel's Teapot, you cannot prove it either right or wrong, why not discard it altogether?[/QUOTE] I think you've misunderstood the point of Russel's Teapot. You can't prove it doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean it does.
why do atheists find it so necessary to bring religion down/disprove it why can't we get together again let's hug
[QUOTE=lemming77;21780814]I think you've misunderstood the point of Russel's Teapot. You can't prove it doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean it does.[/QUOTE] It was an example. Change that to "That which can be accepted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
People have always disagreed with eachother and this includes religion and its never going to change :(
[QUOTE=Zally13;21780716]There's proof there's no God. It's more of proving something and disproving something at the same time. Basically Evolution is well on it's way to being proven, if not already, and that pretty much disproves about every religion out there. To put it more simply, we've proven some religious things fake. Christianity has no proof, however.[/QUOTE] i'm not meaning to argue with you, but proving evolution does not necessarily disprove christainity. the argument will always be, "evolution was simply the vessel in which god used to create man" you cannot completely disprove this irrational belief system, no matter how hard you try. my belief is that you have to let it destroy itself. these religions (not all of them), promote hate speech, bigotry and child molestation. it is only a matter of time before people start questioning their own beliefs on a mass scale (and in some ways it has already begun)
[QUOTE=bravehat;21780790]It's native americans not allowed to use mescaline/peyote I think in certain ceremonies. Which honestly should be fine, it's tradition and it's not like they rub it peoples faces, it's kept to themselves so things should be fine.[/QUOTE] So if my imaginary friend says it's okay, can I take it without facing prosecution aswell? Seems a ridiculous criteria to make exceptions.
[QUOTE=Shammah;21780484]But with atheism you still believe in something (if just atheistic, nothig else), just like any other religion. You believe in the absence of something. Also, I don't say religion must be gone, that can't be done ofcourse, just lower it's significance.[/QUOTE] Atheism is not a religion. Religion is the presence of faith. Atheism is the absence thereof. It's not like you're describing it. You either believe in something, or don't believe in something. Your mistake is thinking that there's evidence of God. Religious people are the ones going on faith because you have no actual substance to your beliefs, just faith. Atheists are simply following the lack of evidence to its natural conclusion. We lack the faith to believe in such supernatural things like prayer or gods. If a state is atheist, it has no state religion.
This is why I like Russia, 75% are athiests.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;21780849]It was an example. Change that to "That which can be accepted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."[/QUOTE] That's more like it. :)
[QUOTE=meatballfish;21780835]why do atheists find it so necessary to bring religion down/disprove it why can't we get together again let's hug[/QUOTE] the same reason we correct people's grammar the same reason we tell people the truth the same reason we dispel falsehoods in education to promote this irrational and ignorant belief system is detrimental to human progress and knowledge as a whole also, as said above, religion is often used as an excuse to justify bigotry, sexism, etc. to get rid of religion is to allow people to simply label these loons as "bigots", "sexists", etc. instead of "wow that guy is extremely pious"
[QUOTE=Zally13;21780751]He said ban state religion. Basically have no religion be in a whole area. So in other words, have a bad reading.[/QUOTE] I wasn't talking to the OP specifically. I was talking to the people on FP who think banning religion is a good idea. The OP isn't really clear on what he is stating. His title is "Atheism as a state religion", but then he goes on to say that religion is bad and should be banned (sorry, not banned, just removed as a key role in society (even though it isn't anymore, and reducing its role even further will just be overkill)). He then goes on to say that anti-theism should be set up as a state religion, which means that there really any difference, just that the state religion would be what [b]he[/b] believes as correct. I'm an atheist.
[QUOTE=Zally13;21780716]There's proof there's no God. It's more of proving something and disproving something at the same time. Basically Evolution is well on it's way to being proven, if not already, and that pretty much disproves about every religion out there. To put it more simply, we've proven some religious things fake. Christianity has no proof, however.[/QUOTE] Religious God =/= The whole concept of God.
[QUOTE=siberpredaht;21780909]the same reason we correct people's grammar the same reason we tell people the truth the same reason we dispel falsehoods in education to promote this irrational and ignorant belief system is detrimental to human progress and knowledge as a whole also, as said above, religion is often used as an excuse to justify bigotry, sexism, etc. to get rid of religion is to allow people to simply label these loons as "bigots", "sexists", etc. instead of "wow that guy is extremely pious"[/QUOTE] This.
Damn, does facepunch have to have a religion fight every week?
[QUOTE=Zally13;21780716]There's proof there's no God. It's more of proving something and disproving something at the same time. Basically Evolution is well on it's way to being proven, if not already, and that pretty much disproves about every religion out there. To put it more simply, we've proven some religious things fake. Christianity has no proof, however.[/QUOTE] Evolution isn't built around the theory of atheism. Hell, Darwin was an avid Christian when he formulated evolution. Evolution is an idea of how the world began, it has absolutely nothing to do with religion. [editline]06:18PM[/editline] [QUOTE=evilweazel;21780939]Damn, does facepunch have to have a religion fight every week?[/QUOTE] There are belligerent atheists and belligerent religists on both sides. Fight are gonna happen, especially with threads like this proclaiming their belief is the only way forward.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;21780886]This is why I like Russia, 75% are athiests.[/QUOTE] i don't mean to nitpick, but that is an incorrect number the russian orthodox church still had influence under soviet russia, if you're looking for numbers that high you have to look towards vietnam
I say we should lay the facts out on the table and let the person choose. That way, no parental brainwashing can occur, and that gives everyone the freedom to believe what they want to believe. Trust me, some people will still go for a religion in that situation.
[QUOTE=Jund;21780978]I say we should lay the facts out on the table and let the person choose. That way, no parental brainwashing can occur, and that gives everyone the freedom to believe what they want to believe. Trust me, some people will still go for a religion in that situation.[/QUOTE] if that is the case, we have to teach apache mythos - greek mythology - the yanamamo origin myth, etc, etc.
[QUOTE=Jund;21780978]I say we should lay the facts out on the table and let the person choose. That way, no parental brainwashing can occur, and that gives everyone the freedom to believe what they want to believe. Trust me, some people will still go for a religion in that situation.[/QUOTE] To prevent parental brainwashing the child would have to be raised by the government or some other institution, make sure all members of said insitution are completely neutral. It's hard.
[QUOTE=Tanner;21780763]State-mandated atheism is a stupid idea. State-mandated agnosticism is slightly less stupid, but the state should take no part in encouraging or discouraging you from pursuing a religious ideal. The rules change for nations that are 98% religious; in that case, it's justifiable to enact laws and social policies that coincide with people's beliefs.[/QUOTE] This. I'm religious, and though I don't think secularism is necessarily the best idea, chruch and state being together or state religions are overkill. The HRE established Catholocism as the only religion possible and anyone who disapproved of it was executed. This kind of thing happens when state religion is allowed. Religion should neither be discouraged nor encouraged by the government. If a goverment members claims he has a religious sense of morals, that's fine, but things get bad when ideas are forced upon people.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21780942]Evolution isn't built around the theory of atheism. Hell, Darwin was an avid Christian when he formulated evolution. Evolution is an idea of how the world began, it has absolutely nothing to do with religion. [editline]06:18PM[/editline] There are belligerent atheists and belligerent religists on both sides. Fight are gonna happen, especially with threads like this proclaiming their belief is the only way forward.[/QUOTE] Did I say it did? If anything I was saying it didn't. I said by proving something we are also, at the same time, disproving something.
[QUOTE=Jund;21780978]I say we should lay the facts out on the table and let the person choose. That way, no parental brainwashing can occur, and that gives everyone the freedom to believe what they want to believe.[/quote] You do realize atheist parents can be just as brainwashing as religious parents? [quote]Trust me, some people will still go for a religion in that situation.[/QUOTE] Nothing wrong or unsensible with that, to be honest. People can have opinions. [editline]06:23PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zally13;21781010]Did I say it did? If anything I was saying it didn't. I said by proving something we are also, at the same time, disproving something.[/QUOTE] Ever heard of Theistic Evolutionism? Evolution doesn't prove nor disprove religion in any way.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21781004]This. I'm religious, and though I don't think secularism is necessarily the best idea, chruch and state being together or state religions are overkill. The HRE established Catholocism as the only religion possible and anyone who disapproved of it was executed. This kind of thing happens when state religion is allowed. Religion should neither be discouraged nor encouraged by the government. If a goverment members claims he has a religious sense of morals, that's fine, but things get bad when ideas are forced upon people.[/QUOTE] the fact is religion is promoted in the united states. churches are exempt from taxes AND they have a huge political role
[QUOTE=lemming77;21780867]So if my imaginary friend says it's okay, can I take it without facing prosecution aswell? Seems a ridiculous criteria to make exceptions.[/QUOTE] Recreational drug use is hardly the world's worst issue. If it was legalised and not fucking demonised not only would less people suffer thanks to drug trade but governments could regulate the strength of the drugs, what they are mixed with and could actually make a lot of money out of this.
[QUOTE=siberpredaht;21781044]the fact is religion is promoted in the united states. churches are exempt from taxes AND they have a huge political role[/QUOTE] The US funds both religious and atheist groups, if I'm not mistaken. Minor help for one side or the other isn't really wrong.
[QUOTE=Zally13;21780716]There's proof there's no God. It's more of proving something and disproving something at the same time. Basically Evolution is well on it's way to being proven, if not already, and that pretty much disproves about every religion out there. To put it more simply, we've proven some religious things fake. Christianity has no proof, however.[/QUOTE] Correct me if I am wrong, because honestly I don't have nearly enough knowledge on the subject to make a comment but I will attempt to anyway, but I don't believe, at least in the case of Christianity, that evolution disproves god. To my knowledge, there is nothing that directly conflicts, besides stubborn Christians in todays world, with evolution in the bible. This just reminds me of the entire center of the universe argument. There is nothing to suggest earth is the center of the universe, yet the catholic faith fought the discovery that it wasn't to the end, and lost. It had more to do with the egos and stubborness of the people in that faith than anything to do with conflicting the bible. I've always taken the "God created earth in 7 days" thing as a metaphor anyways. Besides, we decided the measure of a day by the rotation of the earth. It could mean any lenth of time. I'm...semi Christian I suppose I will admit and I'll be the first to admit evolution is very real, and that we can't have a very good government without separation of church and state, it's just a necessity as long as people believe different things. You can't take one side when you rule over all, neutrality is the only way. As a hilarious side note, FP ads know their target audience well. [img]http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=COqn2ZTYob3j4AEQ2AUYTzIIkMgc2s0oV68[/img]
[QUOTE=bravehat;21781055]Recreational drug use is hardly the world's worst issue. If it was legalised and not fucking demonised not only would less people suffer thanks to drug trade but governments could regulate the strength of the drugs, what they are mixed with and could actually make a lot of money out of this.[/QUOTE] We get it, we get it, you want the entire world to get high, lose their minds under the dstorting affects of drugs, and want societ to crumble. This isn't the thread for drug praise.
[QUOTE=Zally13;21780716]There's proof there's no God. It's more of proving something and disproving something at the same time. Basically Evolution is well on it's way to being proven, if not already, and that pretty much disproves about every religion out there. To put it more simply, we've proven some religious things fake. Christianity has no proof, however.[/QUOTE] I didn't say proving religions false, I said disproving or proving the existence of a deity/god
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21781022]You do realize atheist parents can be just as brainwashing as religious parents? Evolution doesn't prove nor disprove religion in any way.[/QUOTE] how can you brainwash a child towards atheism? religion itself is irrational and attempts to explain the currently unexplainable and evolution kinda disproves adam and eve doesn't it? as far as i know it doesn't say, "and adam evolved from a common ancestor of apes..."
[QUOTE=bravehat;21781055]Recreational drug use is hardly the world's worst issue. If it was legalised and not fucking demonised not only would less people suffer thanks to drug trade but governments could regulate the strength of the drugs, what they are mixed with and could actually make a lot of money out of this.[/QUOTE] I agree, although this is besides the point. I'm talking more about exceptions given on religious grounds. Whether it should be legalised or not, some guy's imaginary friend should be the last person who decides where exceptions in the law are made.
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