[QUOTE=Perfumly;21781496]What I'm saying is people should start living their own damn lives and not have to follow a holy book.[/QUOTE]
Religious conviction is a very real thing. If you tell a devoutly religious individual to stop believing, they're not going to. What benefit will come of them doing so?
[QUOTE=Tanner;21781577]Religious conviction is a very real thing. If you tell a devoutly religious individual to stop believing, they're not going to. What benefit will come of them doing so?[/QUOTE]
This is why we should teach people critical thinking, logic (including identifying logical fallacies) and reasoning.
[QUOTE=Tanner;21781577]Religious conviction is a very real thing. If you tell a devoutly religious individual to stop believing, they're not going to. What benefit will come of them doing so?[/QUOTE]
I see my point is not getting through here at all.
I am by no means an anti-religious person. I believe that a person should believe whatever they want in their life but if they are going to pick and choose they shouldn't belong to whatever religion they claim to be a part of. I myself, am an agnostic. (Though my definition of agnostic may be off, I believe that there is a possibility of there being a god but also a possibility of their not being one. I won't believe either way until one side is somehow magically proven)
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;21780886]This is why I like Russia, 75% are athiests.[/QUOTE]
Come to Finland 90% probably :smug: nobody takes that shit seriously here.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;21781290]Christianity isn't sexist?
Then why is Eve the gateway to hell, weapon of the devil, and the original sin?[/QUOTE]
It didn't say that in my bible.
Christianity may be sexist, but most of the christians of today aren't.
No state religions. The founding fathers got that right.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;21782008]It didn't say that in my bible.
Christianity might be sexist, but most of the christians of today aren't.[/QUOTE]
How can you be so sure? Many Christians (especially Catholics) live in states that aren't very Western, or that are Western but have many culturally backward enclaves in them.
[QUOTE=ohadeEyY;21782059]How can you be so sure? Many Christians (especially Catholics) live in states that aren't very Western, or that are Western but have many culturally backward enclaves in them.[/QUOTE]
I have a majority of Christians in my neighborhood. And I can tell you, they don't have any sexist logic.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;21781634]I see my point is not getting through here at all.
I am by no means an anti-religious person. I believe that a person should believe whatever they want in their life but if they are going to pick and choose they shouldn't belong to whatever religion they claim to be a part of. I myself, am an agnostic. (Though my definition of agnostic may be off, I believe that there is a possibility of there being a god but also a possibility of their not being one. I won't believe either way until one side is somehow magically proven)[/QUOTE]
You don't have much of a point. You're stumbling around with the realisation that independently-spawned thought is favourable to inherited thought, but you're not really getting to the root of it!
If we drop a culture of humans on the surface of the earth and shield them from all exterior influences, we may find that after a period of several generations, one free-thinker or several among the group will begin to question their origins or existence itself. The conclusions that isolated cultures of humans reach are typically similar or comparable in some ways, and less free-minded people are anxious to believe them. The extent to which these people marry themselves to the philosophy represents a fascinating display of loyalty, detached from the original logic seen by the group's first philosopher.
Depending on how you analyse this, you may theorise that there is a God and it wants to be believed in, but its depiction varies greatly, depending on humanity's perception. By that logic, there is only one infinite force behind the fabric of existence, and no one's array of beliefs is incorrect. If there is an after-life, it could only logically be based on what [I]you[/I] believe to be true, as it would arise from the universe's infinite energy. If you [I]direly[/I] believe your loyalty to Christianity has been significant enough, you will get exactly what you're expecting, just as you'll get nothing if you truly believe there is nothing.
I wish more people were willing to thinking a bit esoterically for a while instead of just praising the merits of atheism, because it's really fun to talk about this stuff!
Congratulations on being free-minded enough to be agnostic, you'd be on the winning team if there was one. ;)
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;21782123]I have a majority of Christians in my neighborhood. And I can tell you, they don't have any sexist logic.[/QUOTE]
Okay, how does this have anything to do with their sexist holy book. Other then how they pick and choose what to believe.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;21782123]I have a majority of Christians in my neighborhood. And I can tell you, they don't have any sexist logic.[/QUOTE]
Your neighberhood's Christians are not a represntive sample of the Chritians worldwide.
[QUOTE=Tanner;21782157]You don't have much of a point. You're stumbling around with the realisation that independently-spawned thought is favourable to inherited thought, but you're not really getting to the root of it!
If we drop a culture of humans on the surface of the earth and shield them from all exterior influences, we may find that after a period of several generations, one free-thinker or several among the group will begin to question their origins or existence itself. The conclusions that isolated cultures of humans reach are typically similar or comparable in some ways, and less free-minded people are anxious to believe them. The extent to which these people marry themselves to the philosophy represents a fascinating display of loyalty, detached from the original logic seen by the group's first philosopher.
Depending on how you analyse this, you may theorise that there is a God and it wants to be believed in, but its depiction varies greatly, depending on humanity's perception. By that logic, there is only one infinite force behind the fabric of existence, and no one's array of beliefs is incorrect. If there is an after-life, it could only logically be based on what [I]you[/I] believe to be true, as it would arise from the universe's infinite energy. If you [I]direly[/I] believe your loyalty to Christianity has been significant enough, you will get exactly what you're expecting, just as you'll get nothing if you truly believe there is nothing.
I wish more people were willing to thinking a bit esoterically for a while instead of just praising the merits of atheism, because it's really fun to talk about this stuff!
Congratulations on being free-minded enough to be agnostic, you'd be on the winning team if there was one. ;)[/QUOTE]
You had me up until
[QUOTE=Tanner;21782157]
If there is an after-life, it could only logically be based on what [I]you[/I] believe to be true, as it would arise from the universe's infinite energy. [/QUOTE]
Not quite understanding what you're saying there.
[QUOTE=Tanner;21782157]You don't have much of a point. You're stumbling around with the realisation that independently-spawned thought is favourable to inherited thought, but you're not really getting to the root of it!
If we drop a culture of humans on the surface of the earth and shield them from all exterior influences, we may find that after a period of several generations, one free-thinker or several among the group will begin to question their origins or existence itself. The conclusions that isolated cultures of humans reach are typically similar or comparable in some ways, and less free-minded people are anxious to believe them. The extent to which these people marry themselves to the philosophy represents a fascinating display of loyalty, detached from the original logic seen by the group's first philosopher.
Depending on how you analyse this, you may theorise that there is a God and it wants to be believed in, but its depiction varies greatly, depending on humanity's perception. By that logic, there is only one infinite force behind the fabric of existence, and no one's array of beliefs is incorrect. If there is an after-life, it could only logically be based on what [I]you[/I] believe to be true, as it would arise from the universe's infinite energy. If you [I]direly[/I] believe your loyalty to Christianity has been significant enough, you will get exactly what you're expecting, just as you'll get nothing if you truly believe there is nothing.
I wish more people were willing to thinking a bit esoterically for a while instead of just praising the merits of atheism, because it's really fun to talk about this stuff!
Congratulations on being free-minded enough to be agnostic, you'd be on the winning team if there was one. ;)[/QUOTE]
Depending on how you analyze a murder scene, you may theorize a victim was stabbed by a unicorn.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;21782229]Not quite understanding what you're saying there.[/QUOTE]
It's kind of an abstract concept. If we're willing to believe in the possibility of an "afterlife" and attempt to analyse it logically, it couldn't possibly be based on one single human perception. It could only be modelled after what one may dream of the afterlife being, based on their conviction to a specific school of thought. So if you're a Christian and you're a "sinner", you'll probably end up with what your own idea of hell is.
I think the biggest problem and cause of conflict is caused by parents of any belief pushing their own beliefs onto their children, causing one of two effects. The blind defense of said belief or the blind hatred of said belief. Instead I think teaching open mindedness and thinking for ones self before any form of belief is introduced to a child would solve a vast majority of conflicts. The first thing I ask people who say they believe in one religion or another is if they have actually looked into or studied any other religion(I include atheism in this lot). A large portion of the time they have not. I want to know how you can truly believe in something if you have never experienced anything else. I can claim Pie is better than cake all I want but I better have damn well tried both of I want my opinion to have any value at all.
Like I said before, I'm semi Christian because of a upbringing of such, but I'm generally agnostic. I often wonder what position the standard devote Christian would be in if born into a Muslim family. I highly doubt things would be the same, in fact he/she would have the same strength of faith in the native religion I am willing to bet.
I also must say Tanner my mind has grazed the concept but you put it into words quite nicely, that is my favorite outlook on this entire situation by far, thank you.
[QUOTE]
It's kind of an abstract concept. If we're willing to believe in the possibility of an "afterlife" and attempt to analyse it logically, it couldn't possibly be based on one single human perception. It could only be modelled after what one may dream of the afterlife being, based on their conviction to a specific school of thought. So if you're a Christian and you're a "sinner", you'll probably end up with what your own idea of hell is.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think that you must picture afterlife if you believe it.
[QUOTE=Tanner;21782419]It's kind of an abstract concept. If we're willing to believe in the possibility of an "afterlife" and attempt to analyse it logically, it couldn't possibly be based on one single human perception. It could only be modelled after what one may dream of the afterlife being, based on their conviction to a specific school of thought. So if you're a Christian and you're a "sinner", you'll probably end up with what your own idea of hell is.[/QUOTE]
Does make sense, but with that logic in believing that there [b]is[/b] an afterlife, what happens to the people who don't believe/never thought about what would be in the afterlife? Just some crazy fucked up eternal dream?
I'm a Christian, rate me dumb.
[QUOTE=Tanner;21782419]It's kind of an abstract concept. If we're willing to believe in the possibility of an "afterlife" and attempt to analyse it logically, it couldn't possibly be based on one single human perception. It could only be modelled after what one may dream of the afterlife being, based on their conviction to a specific school of thought. So if you're a Christian and you're a "sinner", you'll probably end up with what your own idea of hell is.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying wishful thinking makes for reality ?
Excuse me, what do you think we are ? Our own god ?
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;21782534] Our own god ?[/QUOTE]
No I believe some crazy malevolent fucker in the sky controls my destiny
[QUOTE=Perfumly;21782489]Does make sense, but with that logic in believing that there [b]is[/b] an afterlife, what happens to the people who don't believe/never thought about what would be in the afterlife? Just some crazy fucked up eternal dream?[/QUOTE]
I feel it would be comparable to the subconscious mind's fascinating display of power that shows itself during a meditative trance, but with all of the barriers taken down.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;21782534]So you're saying wishful thinking makes for reality ?
Excuse me, what do you think we are ? Our own god ?[/QUOTE]
I think it runs a bit deeper than that. Clearly some of us are capable of making our minds up and many, many more of us are not.
[QUOTE=Shammah;21780578]Indeed, I'm an antitheistic agnostic myself, leaning a bit on the side of atheism. I like the idea of an agnostic state better, yes. I just found agnosticism more of a way of tginking instead of a real religion, like an adjective.[/QUOTE]
That's like saying I'm a Catholic Atheist.
Agnostics and Atheists are quite different. Agnostics do not necessarily believe in a supreme deity that is constantly involved in our lives like in other beliefs, they believe that something has to govern the universe but have no definitive belief. Atheists strictly believe nature and the laws of physics/universe are completely random and nothing ultimately controls it.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;21782489]Does make sense, but with that logic in believing that there [b]is[/b] an afterlife, what happens to the people who don't believe/never thought about what would be in the afterlife? Just some crazy fucked up eternal dream?[/QUOTE]
I can't shed any insight as to what would happen in the case of a lack of belief, but you have to give the idea some credit. Take Christians heaven for example. Everyone has different interests, therefor it would stand to reason that heaven would have to be different for everyone to be perfect for each person. The same goes for the opposite, hell. And the way I understand this idea, it isn't a reality, more like a lucid dream after life. If one expects nothing, then one gets nothing. It isn't really worse or better than having said lucid dream of heaven, because it is no more real than the nothing. Also you can assume that an atheist is already fine with that, being an atheist. So we all get what we want in a way.
I'm bad at writing what I'm thinking so if this looks like complete BS I apologize heh.
Yeah but that afterlife when your brain is still alive would only be able to last a split second. Though with DMT it may seem like longer, it wouldn't be forever.
Can't we all get along? :saddowns:
[QUOTE=Perfumly;21782772]Yeah but that afterlife when your brain is still alive would only be able to last a split second. Though with DMT it may seem like longer, it wouldn't be forever.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, I think the brain will have an interesting lapse before we die portraying an afterlife similar to dreams. But ultimately you don't exist if your brain isn't alive.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;21782813]I agree with this, I think the brain will have an interesting lapse before we die portraying an afterlife similar to dreams. But ultimately you don't exist if your brain isn't alive.[/QUOTE]
We can't know that for sure until we know exactly what it is that causes us to be conscious beings, and able to think like we do. Correct me if this has already been determined.
(Yes I know it has to be something inside the brain, but what exactly would it be?)
[QUOTE=Perfumly;21782831]We can't know that for sure until we know exactly what it is that causes us to be conscious beings, and able to think like we do. Correct me if this has already been determined.[/QUOTE]
Well many scientists believe it has everything to do with the complicated electrical energy that pulses through our brains at trillions of calculations per second. We know other creatures on our planet seem to be capable of conscience thought to some degree, as to what causes it we may never fully be able to explain.
But look at gravity, we know it exists, but we can't explain as to how it exists; we simply have to stop at it being caused by the laws of physics. I believe nature is just mysterious and ultimately random, another universe might work completely differently and everything residing in it just works because that's how things randomly decided.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;21782548]No I believe some crazy malevolent fucker in the sky controls my destiny[/QUOTE]
For the records, I'm atheist
What about Rapture? :v:
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