• Atheism as state religion
    224 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;21789229]Well I was talking about WBC in this case, which is like... 10 people... [editline]12:31AM[/editline] But you know what I mean, right?[/QUOTE] Yeah, you are saying that an idea that isn't universally accepted isn't valid.
What Christians don't see is that it is a damn book. Written by man. Just because Harry Potter war written it doesn't mean that the author actually saw wizards. Besides, the bible has done so much evil that I don't see how people support it. I don't know why we still have an issue of less then 10% Christian people in a country who got Christianity force fed to us with a sword. The only reason why the bible is so widely spread is because of the huge amount of fundamentaly. I was raised my an agnostic mother and an atheist father who never really talked to me about any of these religious subjects. It was my own duty to see what made most sense. All from seeing my best friend pray before going to sleep and being in these horrible conventions. Having a Religious country is dangerous. In the bible you are told not to kill anyone, but gods will may permit this horrible act. If a HC christian is starting to hear voices that tell him/her to kill someone they will propably do it in the worst case scenario, because god said so. If an atheist is hearing voices that tell him/her to kill someone they will search psychiatric help immediately. Scary isn't it if the America would've had McCane as a president and he'd die and be replaced by Palin. Think of the amount of destruction the right words could cause if told to her. It's fucking scary.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;21789263]Yeah, you are saying that an idea that isn't universally accepted isn't valid.[/QUOTE] Isn't valid in saying that the people in question are bad people, yeah. [editline]12:40AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;21789271]What Christians don't see is that it is a damn book. Written by man. Just because Harry Potter war written it doesn't mean that the author actually saw wizards. Besides, the bible has done so much evil that I don't see how people support it. I don't know why we still have an issue of less then 10% Christian people in a country who got Christianity force fed to us with a sword. The only reason why the bible is so widely spread is because of the huge amount of fundamentaly. I was raised my an agnostic mother and an atheist father who never really talked to me about any of these religious subjects. It was my own duty to see what made most sense. All from seeing my best friend pray before going to sleep and being in these horrible conventions. Having a Religious country is dangerous. In the bible you are told not to kill anyone, but gods will may permit this horrible act. If a HC christian is starting to hear voices that tell him/her to kill someone they will propably do it in the worst case scenario, because god said so. If an atheist is hearing voices that tell him/her to kill someone they will search psychiatric help immediately. Scary isn't it if the America would've had McCane as a president and he'd die and be replaced by Palin. Think of the amount of destruction the right words could cause if told to her. It's fucking scary.[/QUOTE] I see what you mean, and I agree, but I think it's better to be tolerant and let people believe what they want.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;21789287]Isn't valid in saying that the people in question are bad people, yeah.[/QUOTE] You fail to look at this from their perspective. THEY don't believe that what they are doing is wrong, they think they are spreading god's word, his will, THEY think that they are helping society by condemning others, that's exactly what you are doing when YOU aggressively challenge a person's belief, or lack of. [QUOTE=Gummylamb;21789287]Isn't valid in saying that the people in question are bad people, yeah. [editline]12:40AM[/editline] I see what you mean, and I agree, but I think it's better to be tolerant and let people believe what they want.[/QUOTE] You obviously don't believe that these people in question should believe what they want.
There's been a lot of misconceptions about what atheism is in this thread, so I'll lay it out on the table. There is a difference between making the assertion that God does not exist ('I believe there are no gods') and simply not making the assertion that God does exist ('I do not believe in a god'). All that's required to be an atheist is that you fall under the latter category. You can say there are no gods and be an atheist, but that's not the requirement. Most atheists are agnostics (and vice versa). Carl Sagan was referring to to atheism in the philosophical sense, but rather commonly used and abused definition: atheism is the doctrine that no gods exist.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;21789313]You fail to look at this from their perspective. THEY don't believe that what they are doing is wrong, they think they are spreading god's word, his will, THEY think that they are helping society by condemning others, that's exactly what you are doing when YOU aggressively challenge a person's belief, or lack of. You obviously don't believe that these people in question should believe what they want.[/QUOTE] I don't really believe that people should believe in being intolerant to others, which most people don't do, but the WBC does so I'd be glad if they left, or at least calmed down.
Atheism = No religion.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;21789371]I don't really believe that people should believe in being intolerant to others, which most people don't do, but the WBC does so I'd be glad if they left, or at least calmed down.[/QUOTE] You are intolerant to others, its as simple as that. Their core part of their belief system and in general every religious belief system says something about dealing with people that have conflicting beliefs with you. You saying you aren't tolerant of others who aren't tolerant of everyone makes you intolerant of nearly everyone.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;21789431]You are intolerant to others, its as simple as that. Their core part of their belief system and in general every religious belief system says something about dealing with people that have conflicting beliefs with you. You saying you aren't tolerant of others who aren't tolerant of everyone makes you intolerant of nearly everyone.[/QUOTE] You're saying hating bigots makes you a bigot? I'm not sure about that.
[QUOTE=WecksyRex;21789445]You're saying hating bigots makes you a bigot? I'm not sure about that.[/QUOTE] *Stop being a bigot you bigot hating bigot* v:v:v Makes perfect sense to me.
Yep, that's exactly what I am saying, bigots are bigots, they have their own insane belief system, but hell, its their belief system, and no matter how much I would love to cave the skull in of the asshole who started this whole WBC shit, they believe what they are doing is right, and fuck, who are we to say otherwise?
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;21789595]Yep, that's exactly what I am saying, bigots are bigots, they have their own insane belief system, but hell, its their belief system, and no matter how much I would love to cave the skull in of the asshole who started this whole WBC shit, they believe what they are doing is right, and fuck, who are we to say otherwise?[/QUOTE] You're confusing getting angry at bigots with removing their freedom of expression, if I understand you correctly.
[QUOTE=WecksyRex;21789648]You're confusing getting angry at bigots with removing their freedom of expression, if I understand you correctly.[/QUOTE] You are probably right.
Why do people still believe in god? It isn't 2000 years ago.
[QUOTE=Kade;21780595]isnt china supposed to be religiously void?[/QUOTE] you mean communism isn't a religion? :v: [editline]10:04AM[/editline] [QUOTE=rathat48;21789862]Why do people still believe in god? It isn't 2000 years ago.[/QUOTE] because partaking in a religion brings hope, unity, and purpose to an individual or group. that's why people do it. i have to say, when i used to believe in god, i was immensely happier. I look at my christian friends, how they have functioning families, have both their parents together, and live happily. I look at myself, my family, and want to cry. ignorance is truly bliss.
I see were your coming from I was happier when I believed in the tooth-fairy. [editline]05:10AM[/editline] Ignorance is bliss.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21789936] because partaking in a religion brings hope, unity, and purpose to an individual or group. that's why people do it. i have to say, when i used to believe in god, i was immensely happier. I look at my christian friends, how they have functioning families, have both their parents together, and live happily. I look at myself, my family, and want to cry. ignorance is truly bliss.[/QUOTE] My family is not religious, we are poor but still together and happy. I think that if you need god to be happy, there's something wrong.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21785637]My opinion, I'll have it if I want. I personally don't believe everything in existence can work together in such an intricate and clockwork manner just by random occurence. Evolution may very well be true, but if it is, I personally believe a Diety engineered it.[/QUOTE] Evolution [b]looks[/b] like it's been designed for one simple reason. Everything that didn't work failed to thrive and so died off, leaving only those that functioned in there enviroment, read up on all the interactions between organisms and evolution and you'd see that. [editline]10:34AM[/editline] [QUOTE=rathat48;21789862]Why do people still believe in god? It isn't 2000 years ago.[/QUOTE] Better question, why as a species do we have some sort of inferiority complex. Really think about it, we have these books and idols that tell us what to do because as a collective we're just fucking scared that at some point we will have to go it alone in life and make up our own rules so we make up this guy who's superior to us, someone we feel can lead us safely. Ah fuck it, maybe i'm just rambling here v:v:v
[QUOTE=johanz;21790072]My family is not religious, we are poor but still together and happy. I think that if you need god to be happy, there's something wrong.[/QUOTE] don't need it, but religion brings morals and values to the table. i think that's a real way to bind a family from my own experience. don't be so against religion. I'm glad it's there, it has its place in things, but i don't like to partake in it. religion is like a placebo.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21790119]don't need it, but religion[b] brings morals and values to the table.[/b] i think that's a real way to bind a family from my own experience. don't be so against religion. I'm glad it's there, it has its place in things, but i don't like to partake in it. religion is like a placebo.[/QUOTE] Bullshit, the most moral folk I have ever met were atheist.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21790119]don't need it, but religion brings morals and values to the table. i think that's a real way to bind a family from my own experience. don't be so against religion. I'm glad it's there, it has its place in things, but i don't like to partake in it. religion is like a placebo.[/QUOTE] Then again, if you need some higher being to bring together morals and values, there is something wrong.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21790119]don't need it, [B]but religion brings morals and values to the table[/B]. i think that's a real way to bind a family from my own experience. don't be so against religion. I'm glad it's there, it has its place in things, but i don't like to partake in it. religion is like a placebo.[/QUOTE] [URL=http://www.cubeupload.com][IMG]http://www.cubeupload.com/files/5e6000god.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Here's a good book, it has a good point on the moral/religion relationship, try reading it. [QUOTE]don't be so against religion.[/QUOTE] Actually yeah, I'm going to continue being critical.
Religion's an ingenious way to establish common norms and their hierarchy. After all, what higher authority is there than the Ultimate Truth or the Creator Of Everything? Societal norms depend on physical sanctions. The fear of breaking them stems from the knowledge that the society will not accept it, that they'll shun and punish you. However they're just the society. Breaking them is a matter of gathering the courage to do so. Besides, if you're not caught, they'll never know. And the worst they can do is kill you and your family anyway. Religious norms however depend on psychological sanctions. It's simply unthinkable to go against the ultimate truth. To defy the creator of everything is to defy your own existence. These norms are upheld everywhere and you may be held liable even after your death. You cannot know what will happen, but you believe that something will. There's no escape, better behave. And it also gives an excellent reason to impose your norms on others. The western super-acceptive culture's a good example of this. Most people do think that our culture's always the superior one, but we can't reason why. If our culture was absolutely better, however, it would be easy to stifle minorities and conquer others. The benefit of this should be immediately obvious. Homogeneous social structures and laws mean better cooperation and trust: improved trade, less conflicts etc.
[QUOTE=ThePuska;21791045]Religion's an ingenious way to establish common norms and their hierarchy. After all, what higher authority is there than the Ultimate Truth or the Creator Of Everything? Societal norms depend on physical sanctions. The fear of breaking them stems from the knowledge that the society will not accept it, that they'll shun and punish you. However they're just the society. Breaking them is a matter of gathering the courage to do so. Besides, if you're not caught, they'll never know. And the worst they can do is kill you and your family anyway. Religious norms however depend on psychological sanctions. It's simply unthinkable to go against the ultimate truth. To defy the creator of everything is to defy your own existence. These norms are upheld everywhere and you may be held liable even after your death. You cannot know what will happen, but you believe that something will. There's no escape, better behave. And it also gives an excellent reason to impose your norms on others. The western super-acceptive culture's a good example of this. Most people do think that our culture's always the superior one, but we can't reason why. If our culture was absolutely better, however, it would be easy to stifle minorities and conquer others. The benefit of this should be immediately obvious. Homogeneous social structures and laws mean better cooperation and trust: improved trade, less conflicts etc.[/QUOTE] Less conflicts? Better cooperation? With [B][I]Religion?![/I][/B] I'm not impressed by your wall of text, you know.
[QUOTE=Herr Sven;21791085]Less conflicts? Better cooperation? With [B][I]Religion?![/I][/B][/QUOTE] If you insist on it, I can provide more than enough historical evidence [editline]03:07PM[/editline] Mainly focusing on the formation of Europe [editline]03:08PM[/editline] But if you consider that a wall of text, I feel that my efforts would be wasted
Europes history with religion was pretty shit. We had the crusades you know.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;21780508]it's the right of the people to worship whatever diety they want to say otherwise makes you a tyrannical dick we're already on the way to secularism via the progressive movement[/QUOTE] They can believe it but it shouldn't have a official stance in any state or country
[QUOTE=bravehat;21791260]Europes history with religion was pretty shit. We had the crusades you know.[/QUOTE] An example of how otherwise bickering kingdoms easily abandoned their hostilities, unified by their religion, to counter an external threat
Or if we didn't have religion in the first place the multiple crusades would never have happened :v:
[QUOTE=ThePuska;21791316]An example of how otherwise bickering kingdoms easily abandoned their hostilities, unified by their religion, to counter an external threat[/QUOTE] but people died in the crusades people
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