[QUOTE=Sift;44630005]For me it's basically if I need to have pills to make me think life is worth living then well... is life really worth living?[/QUOTE]
Well...yeah, it probably still is. You're taking pills, you're not hooked up to a life support machine or anything, you still have a chance to have a decent quality of life. Sure for years at a time you're going to be reliant on these pills, after all the chemical imbalance they attempt to solve won't go away over night. But you're still able to have friends, family, a career.
I'm not going to say it's the same as not having depression, despite not knowingly suffering it myself I know people who do have quite severe clinical depression, and using medication isn't like leading a normal, "healthy" life in any sense. However it's not the end of the world.
Allowing people with depression to decide "nope, I can't do this any more" and kill themselves isn't an inherently bad thing, however you have to take in to account that they aren't thinking normally, irrational decisions are a common thing with depression, having a particularly bad day after a number of decent ones might be the thing to push you off the cliff (so to speak) despite it being one day of hundreds that just didn't go as well as anticipated. Letting people take their lives willy-nilly, when they have a quality of life greater than "stuck in a bed with a machine stuck to me" is dangerous.
[QUOTE=noh_mercy;44582777]
IMO:
[sp] If a suicidal person came to me and asked me whether he should live or die, I'd probably recommend him death just because 1. I dont see any real problem with it, you just die, its a bridge everyone's got to cross someday. 2. Its honestly imo, better because you don't exist anymore, so say goodbye to all troubles you would had to have faced in life, and it really does not matter if you miss out on all the good things either cause you dont exist anymore so you have nothing to regret to begin with. [/sp][/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44632238]
Allowing people with depression to decide "nope, I can't do this any more" and kill themselves isn't an inherently bad thing, however you have to take in to account that they aren't thinking normally, irrational decisions are a common thing with depression, having a particularly bad day after a number of decent ones might be the thing to push you off the cliff (so to speak) despite it being one day of hundreds that just didn't go as well as anticipated. Letting people take their lives willy-nilly, when they have a quality of life greater than "stuck in a bed with a machine stuck to me" is dangerous.[/QUOTE]
What do you qualify as a decent day? Getting through unscathed, averting life's doo-doo so we can do the same thing tomorrow? The human condition impelled not to be starved of satisfaction that directly threaten life's worth to you and so if we didn't indulge or find some phantasmagorical influence to live by, we would inevitably be wading in doo-doo. Maybe we are looking at it wrong and it's in fact an irrational love for life that keeps us persistent. Most obviously noted like you said, when what is left are simply machines to pick up the pieces when you physically can't. As far as what's irrational about committing suicide, i don't think there is much to argue. Maybe suicide can come across as rash, regretful and in the moment but only to those who have attempted and lived to conclude it was. I wouldn't advise it on the principle that simply acting upon facilitates the possibility of harm when approached wrong and holds detrimental consequence if you happen to survive. Despite that view, I wouldn't need to be in a state of deprivation to reconsider my options if euthanasia was one.
I like kant's take on it;
If the act of suicide is an attempt to improve one's life, then one will fail. One cannot improve something by destroying it, and so suicide is contradictory.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;44638874]I like kant's take on it;
If the act of suicide is an attempt to improve one's life, then one will fail. One cannot improve something by destroying it, and so suicide is contradictory.[/QUOTE]
I guess a counter argument would be that if something has negative value, destroying it would increase its value to zero.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44629982]There isn't really a logical reason for opposing antidepressants. It's chemicals for your chemical brain to fix a chemical imbalance. I know that's not how it seems when you're depressed though[/QUOTE]
Not entirely true, I can tell you from experience that anti-depressants aren't all just fun. They have a lot of side effects, sometimes they don't really make you happy but rather they make you not feel at all. It sucks because it felt better to be sad and have moments of happiness then to not worry about anything or care about anything.
Also they have other annoying side effects like loss of sex drive. When your with a lover makes things difficult haha.
The literature heavily suggests that a combination of anti-depressants and counseling/therapy has a synergistic interaction effect that is better than having either one individually. Though if side effects are really severe, it's better to have a therapist to see than nothing at all.
[QUOTE=omarfr;44640082]Not entirely true, I can tell you from experience that anti-depressants aren't all just fun. They have a lot of side effects, sometimes they don't really make you happy but rather they make you not feel at all. It sucks because it felt better to be sad and have moments of happiness then to not worry about anything or care about anything.
Also they have other annoying side effects like loss of sex drive. When your with a lover makes things difficult haha.[/QUOTE]
Yeah from a realistic standpoint they aren't perfect but the people in this thread seem to oppose them purely on ideological grounds
I have mixed feelings. On one hand, depression, and other mental conditions are a defect, and usually inherited, and suicide is a natural way of cleaning the gene pool. On the other hand, it's relatively easy to treat and killing self is a loss to the workforce of a society.
So you're into eugenics then? I'm sure some of your genes could be considered "undesirable" too.
Get out of here with that junk science social darwinist shit
I've never even heard of depression being "mostly inherited"
[QUOTE=BlueChihuahua;44658644]So you're into eugenics then? I'm sure some of your genes could be considered "undesirable" too.[/QUOTE]
Yes i know, i have typ1 diabetes
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44658814]Get out of here with that junk science social darwinist shit
I've never even heard of depression being "mostly inherited"[/QUOTE]
I'd have to look it up but I've been told by my psychiatrist that Depression is partially based on genes and partially based on life experiences and upbringing. A lot of my family members suffer from Depression and some of them including my self have chemical imbalances.
My mom once told me of her nurse friend who dealt with suicide patients. Let's just say she was hard edge. One of them overdosed on some drug/poison but survived. She just gave him a stern look and lied to him by saying
"Look, you survived but we can't get the shit out of your system. You're just gonna have a slow death in a hospital now. Look what you did."
Of course, he got out fine, but I doubt that he tried anything again since. I think she got fired later on, though :v:
Convince them that there are people who love them in the world, and to focus on the positives in life instead of all the negative things
[QUOTE=AJ10017;44691712]Convince them that there are people who love them in the world, and to focus on the positives in life instead of all the negative things[/QUOTE]
I don't really think it works that way though. If you're depressed to the point of being suicidal, you most likely aren't in a state of mind where you could just sit down and start rattling off a bunch of happy positive thoughts.
[QUOTE=AJ10017;44691712]Convince them that there are people who love them in the world, and to focus on the positives in life instead of all the negative things[/QUOTE]
Doesn't work like that. You can be super suicidal and know that you just don't care. Their is only one person that keeps me from going over the edge and that's because I love her.
Suicide is the permanent answer to a temporary problem.
However, i do believe that it should be dealt with in such a way that if a person truly wants to commit suicide, they have the right to do so.
[QUOTE=MEOWTFLOL;44692072]Suicide is the permanent answer to a temporary problem.
However, i do believe that it should be dealt with in such a way that if a person truly wants to commit suicide, they have the right to do so.[/QUOTE]
all problems aren't temporary though
Instead of wasting money just to keep suicidal people alive, I feel like it would be much easier to instead, offer them an easier means to off themselves. Others should not be able to force a life upon you, as they should not force life from you.
[QUOTE=Scklyic;44717469]Instead of wasting money just to keep suicidal people alive, I feel like it would be much easier to instead, offer them an easier means to off themselves. Others should not be able to force a life upon you, as they should not force life from you.[/QUOTE]
By that logic, we shouldn't medicate paranoid schizophrenics because it'd be cheaper and others shouldn't force saneness on you.
I'm so very happy that you're not a licensed psychologist, because there is a difference between someone with a chemical imbalance in the brain / someone lacking coping skills to deal with stress / someone forced into a stressful existence / a combination of any of those three, and someone who consciously makes a rational, and well-informed choice of ending their life.
We shouldn't force life upon those that don't want it, but we shouldn't also be so rash to convince vulnerable people to kill themselves when there is an actually humane and ethical solution to their ills.
All suicidal outlooks are a cause of a neurological problem, either you developed it earlier in life or recently, depression, social disorders, hormone imbalance. Just to name a few things. Go see a doctor.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44629505]A lot of things are like that, but if someone is in such a crushing state where they do not wish to live, what authority does another being have to proclaim that person may not take their own life? Even in a bad mental state, people should still be able to exhibit free will.[/QUOTE]
That would depend on the reason that they wanted to end their life, because in all honesty, teens usually really worry amd care about what people think of them, and maybe there are a handful that really would consider suicide simply because they get picked on or they feel they have a poor quality of life. I could say the same exact thing about maybe a 37 year old homosexual male (no offense to anybody, anywhere) who lived his entire life in the closet andhe might feel that nobody would accept him for who he really is, he might feel that his life is a lie and instead of pretending or "letting everyone down" he decides to end his life.. i dont think either of those cases would constitute a reason for this assisted suicide some people really do need help, some encouragement, some people are just blind to the light but maybe forcing them into a help program might actually work, something might click in their mind, making them realize their self worth that they have the same right to enjoy life as anyone else. That the only person who was in the way was themselves.
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