[QUOTE=livelonger12;39237790]I'm just saying that people should work as much and for as long as possible, to survive. If they cannot work due to a disability, then a benefit should fill in the differences. Otherwise, when fit and able to, they should work. And if they refuse - note, I have stated that they should be more frequently and closely observed by the system if they begin to manage their incapacity better/heal - in future occasions, they should be punished (i.e. money for their sustenance declined) till they realize that they must work on all occasions when they are deemed fit and well.
However, if you are to give the disabled no fear over their sustenance such that they are guaranteed that sustenance, then you should also do this for the unemployed. I.e. you give everyone free sustenance.
But I've already informed you many times throughout this thread that this is just a fantasy of the workshy (i.e. just some kind of Zeitgeist/TVP crap). If it was widespread, the economy would collapse and no one would work. Then money would be useless and there would be no sustenance.
So the only other option is to make the disabled work when they're found to be fit and well, i.e. on good days to make them work on those days. And then to make them take treatment that's found to make them more workable than before. So you get as much work out of them as possible. For the rest, you make them work for a living. And that's how things should be![/QUOTE]
Please, PLEASE go back to FOX News.
Throughout this thread I keep seeing people saying, "Uh what about the disabled?"
Who said we had to cut handouts for the disabled?
I decided to query about what happens to those who are unwilling to work in the UK the other day. If they don't want to work, they are sanctioned on their job seekers allowance after which they are denied access to hardship payments. And gladly so. I don't want workshy scroungers receiving free food, water and shelter just because they don't want to work. So as I've said before, the government is answering the calls to the taxpayers: it is giving them the option of working.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39234862]
Read '[b]Their solution?[/b]' of my OP on the first page and you'll see why it's just a fantasy of the workshy.[/QUOTE]
I'm the only one citing an actual thing that happened in the real world. You have an odd definition of fantasy.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39237790]I'm just saying that people should work as much and for as long as possible, to survive. If they cannot work due to a disability, then a benefit should fill in the differences. Otherwise, when fit and able to, they should work. And if they refuse - note, I have stated that they should be more frequently and closely observed by the system if they begin to manage their incapacity better/heal - in future occasions, they should be punished (i.e. money for their sustenance declined) till they realize that they must work on all occasions when they are deemed fit and well.
However, if you are to give the disabled no fear over their sustenance such that they are guaranteed that sustenance, then you should also do this for the unemployed. I.e. you give everyone free sustenance.
But I've already informed you many times throughout this thread that this is just a fantasy of the workshy (i.e. just some kind of Zeitgeist/TVP crap). If it was widespread, the economy would collapse and no one would work. Then money would be useless and there would be no sustenance.
So the only other option is to make the disabled work when they're found to be fit and well, i.e. on good days to make them work on those days. And then to make them take treatment that's found to make them more workable than before. So you get as much work out of them as possible. For the rest, you make them work for a living. And that's how things should be![/QUOTE]
Society gains nothing by having disabled people work on "days when they're fit and well"; I mean for one thing, what job are they supposed to have? Sure you can give them a job that they could do at those days - but for it to benefit society it would have to be a somewhat important job, and if they can't reliably do it when it needs to be done then it doesn't work.
Another flaw of your arguing is that you keep saying people have to work their way up the ladder to get good jobs, good money and eventually not have to work - yet it's obviously not that easy and that it's more about situation and opportunity than will and skill. As soon as somebody points out that there are rich people out there who inherite companies and big amounts of money and don't have to work, you say that it's ok because their parents deemed them worthy of it - which makes me question your ethics and intelligence for several reasons. My parents may deem me worthy of that much money, but my parents don't have that much money, is that the right way, that one should be judged by the actions and situation of their parents? What if I am objectively a better person than the rich child - I'm better skilled in everyway, have a better sense of ethics and morality etc, does that then simply become invalid because he has more money?
You don't seem to understand the reality or you don't want to see it. I'm not a super left socialist, but you're waaay too far out on the right. By your way of thinking, the poor people in africa or asia or wherever who have no access to water, food or healthcare deserve their situation - because apparently the situation that you may not be able to get a job does not matter to you.
Jesus, he's gotten his head so far up his ass that the rest of his organs are inside-out.
I wonder what magical land of fantasy and fairies he's living in where there are employers willing to give jobs to people who can only "work on the days they're fit and well" anyway?
Hey OP, you manage a McDonalds. I can work for 3 hours on the third Thursday of every month. Want to hire me?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39244097]I wonder what magical land of fantasy and fairies he's living in where there are employers willing to give jobs to people who can only "work on the days they're fit and well" anyway?
Hey OP, you manage a McDonalds. I can work for 3 hours on the third Thursday of every month. Want to hire me?[/QUOTE]
It's even worse with conditions like mine, as it's so random and unpredictable, an hour from now, i could be in total agony, maybe tommorow i'll be unable to get out of bed all day because of the pain. I can never definitavely plan something, because I'll never no how I'll be at X time of Y day until I actually get there. So you can imagine how bad it is trying to arrange hanging out with your friends, seeing your girlfriend etc etc. Hell, even making a simple appointment is difficult as it is.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;39245749]It's even worse with conditions like mine, as it's so random and unpredictable, an hour from now, i could be in total agony, maybe tommorow i'll be unable to get out of bed all day because of the pain. I can never definitavely plan something, because I'll never no how I'll be at X time of Y day until I actually get there. So you can imagine how bad it is trying to arrange hanging out with your friends, seeing your girlfriend etc etc. Hell, even making a simple appointment is difficult as it is.[/QUOTE]
I can predict his response will be something about how you should give back and be grateful that there are McDonalds managers out there [b]literally[/b] personally paying for [b]everything[/b] for you or some other nonsense.
Also, aren't McDonalds managerial positions just rotated out to the normal staff
Hi as someone who would be homeless without glorious socialist state hand-outs, and also as someone who lives in a country where there are about 3 jobs in total, kindly go fuck yourself OP, you speak like someone who's never been in a position of poverty or not knowing when the next meal will be on the table. I would literally blow someone for a job, just because someone is unemployed doesn't mean they want to be. Also in my country (New Zealand) if you aren't actively looking for work while on the benefit/dole/welfare (take your pick), it gets cut in half. If you continue to not look for work, it gets cut off.
Aaaaalso as someone who used to work for a fast food joint I can say that managers are just the regular workers with better pay and a bit of paperwork to do every shift
Also
[img]http://i43.tower.com/images/mm100682288/my-first-thesaurus-jacaranda-wiley-hardcover-cover-art.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Asmaedus;39248365]I would literally blow someone for a job[/QUOTE]
Isn't prostitution legal in New Zealand?
I think I figured out a way to optimize your situation
I wonder if the OP will let me work in his McDonalds with a little convincing
I knew someone in Vancouver.
He moved up here from WA with his mom back in the 90's so they could escape his [url=http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2012/jul/05/man-hooters-bomb-case-stay-jail/]super creepy dad[/url]. Ever since then he's used his autism as a way to suck off the tits of Service Canada. Between a pile of medical reports he gets $1300 a month and even to this day he isn't a canadian citizen (I don't think he even pays taxes). He doesn't even have a valid US passport. He refuses to even apply for one. As long as I have known and heard about him he has never worked an honest day in his life. He does know a guy at a computer shop in town right now and he's unofficially employed with him (he's not on payroll. He can work for a day and get paid cash from the till or take whatever he wants home as payment and dodge clawbacks on his welfare. Hell, he even has a key to the front door of the place.). I've insisted that he get a proper job but the problem is that he dropped out of school in grade 5 so he's pretty limited to what he wants to do. Told him to go back but he refuses to do so. Even if you drag him to an interview he'll refuse to go for it because "oh, I have trouble sleeping and I can't keep good hours because I lie in bed all night and probably only get to sleep after three hours or so and I refuse to take medication for that."
He's also snobby as fuck.
He knows about as much as I do in terms of computers so he'll turn down every job you throw at him because "I'm too good for that."
He's not physically disabled. His mental disabilities do not prevent him from working or going to school. Isn't lazy to be out and about. He just....doesn't want to work.
[QUOTE=MIPS;39248660]I knew someone in Vancouver.
He moved up here from WA with his mom back in the 90's so they could escape his [URL="http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2012/jul/05/man-hooters-bomb-case-stay-jail/"]super creepy dad[/URL]. Ever since then he's used his autism as a way to suck off the tits of Service Canada. Between a pile of medical reports he gets $1300 a month and even to this day he isn't a canadian citizen (I don't think he even pays taxes). He doesn't even have a valid US passport. He refuses to even apply for one. As long as I have known and heard about him he has never worked an honest day in his life. He does know a guy at a computer shop in town right now and he's unofficially employed with him (he's not on payroll. He can work for a day and get paid cash from the till or take whatever he wants home as payment and dodge clawbacks on his welfare. Hell, he even has a key to the front door of the place.). I've insisted that he get a proper job but the problem is that he dropped out of school in grade 5 so he's pretty limited to what he wants to do. Told him to go back but he refuses to do so. Even if you drag him to an interview he'll refuse to go for it because "oh, I have trouble sleeping and I can't keep good hours because I lie in bed all night and probably only get to sleep after three hours or so and I refuse to take medication for that."
He's also snobby as fuck.
He knows about as much as I do in terms of computers so he'll turn down every job you throw at him because "I'm too good for that."
He's not physically disabled. His mental disabilities do not prevent him from working or going to school. Isn't lazy to be out and about. He just....doesn't want to work.[/QUOTE]
It's people like him that irritate me! He's workshy. He's fit and well. His benefits should be stopped and he should be forced to work.
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Asmaedus;39248365]Hi as someone who would be homeless without glorious socialist state hand-outs, and also as someone who lives in a country where there are about 3 jobs in total, kindly go fuck yourself OP, you speak like someone who's never been in a position of poverty or not knowing when the next meal will be on the table. I would literally blow someone for a job, just because someone is unemployed doesn't mean they want to be. Also in my country (New Zealand) if you aren't actively looking for work while on the benefit/dole/welfare (take your pick), it gets cut in half. If you continue to not look for work, it gets cut off.
Aaaaalso as someone who used to work for a fast food joint I can say that managers are just the regular workers with better pay and a bit of paperwork to do every shift
Also
[IMG]http://i43.tower.com/images/mm100682288/my-first-thesaurus-jacaranda-wiley-hardcover-cover-art.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
There are people here with a strong dignity where they devote themselves completely to a life of work. Rather than rely and pocket in social handouts, they try to do something for people. They'll mow lawns, clean homes, or busk - play music in public - or display some other show of art to the public. They [B]earn[/B] their right to sustenance rather than take it from the hard working taxpayer.
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39238586]I'm the only one citing an actual thing that happened in the real world. You have an odd definition of fantasy.[/QUOTE]
It didn't work. It cost the taxpayer too much. The fantasy of such won't work because people need to work to provide sustenance. You can't give people free sustenance because they would stop working. So you've got to give them incentive to work, and that's done by moral/ethical values of working (i.e. if they don't work when they can, benefits are stopped).
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;39239186]Society gains nothing by having disabled people work on "days when they're fit and well"; I mean for one thing, what job are they supposed to have? Sure you can give them a job that they could do at those days - but for it to benefit society it would have to be a somewhat important job, and if they can't reliably do it when it needs to be done then it doesn't work.
Another flaw of your arguing is that you keep saying people have to work their way up the ladder to get good jobs, good money and eventually not have to work - yet it's obviously not that easy and that it's more about situation and opportunity than will and skill. As soon as somebody points out that there are rich people out there who inherite companies and big amounts of money and don't have to work, you say that it's ok because their parents deemed them worthy of it - which makes me question your ethics and intelligence for several reasons. My parents may deem me worthy of that much money, but my parents don't have that much money, is that the right way, that one should be judged by the actions and situation of their parents? What if I am objectively a better person than the rich child - I'm better skilled in everyway, have a better sense of ethics and morality etc, does that then simply become invalid because he has more money?
You don't seem to understand the reality or you don't want to see it. I'm not a super left socialist, but you're waaay too far out on the right. By your way of thinking, the poor people in africa or asia or wherever who have no access to water, food or healthcare deserve their situation - because apparently the situation that you may not be able to get a job does not matter to you.[/QUOTE]
Their parents earned that money and have the right to choose how they wish to spend it. You can't just blame rich people for bring rich, they earned that money. Well, at least someone who found them that money did. That fact is, someone worked hard for that money. Everyone else should to if they want money. Sure, you need money to survive but you should still be required to work for it. The only exception is those who are wholly incapacitated but they should still be required to work when they are able to, at any time. Society benefits by having people working for it.
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
The leaders of your countries are now taking action anyways. Unfortunately, it's articles like the following* that seem to delude the perspective of what they're trying to do. All they want is people working, and they will do anything to get you people working. Workshy scroungers will have no choice. The disabled will have to take mandatory treatment**.
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/28/boris-johnson-unpaid-work-young-people[/URL]
If you people can't see why people should be forced to work, then read through these discussions of likeminded hard working people:
[URL]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4370851[/URL]
[URL]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4361537[/URL]
[URL]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4340557[/URL]
[url]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4272651[/url]
[url]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4266419[/url]
And yes, workhouses do indeed sound like a brilliant idea. It would be akin to a new layer atop school to prepare those who didn't do as well as they should before they are deemed fit enough to enter a world of employment.
[URL]http://www.conservatives.com/Get_involved/benefits_haveyoursay.aspx[/URL]
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/03/obesity-benefits-cuts?CMP=twt_gu[/URL]
Governments are just trying to help get you people into work!
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
Oh, and mandatory treatment for the disabled too:
[URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/06/sickness-benefit-reform-illness-treatment-health-_n_2080953.html[/URL]
Hey guys just strolling by and I noticed the op is still being dumb.
Well I'll be on my way now.
The question for you people really is, would you let someone die if they didn't want to work?
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39250852]The question for you people really is, would you let someone die if they didn't want to work?[/QUOTE]
No.
It's horrible to even suggest something like that.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39250852]The question for you people really is, would you let someone die if they didn't want to work?[/QUOTE]
Would you let someone die because they don't want to work?
Would you let someone die because they aren't able to work? (Whether wholly incapacitated, or as you've described, partially incapacitated, to the extent that they're basically unemployable.)
You trivialise those who are partially incapacitated, by saying, essentially "they can work, they just dont want to", when you have no idea just how much your life can be fucked up by something you'd view as partially incapacitated.
As for
[quote]The disabled will have to take mandatory treatment**.[/quote]
What if the government/health care workers in charge, deem that a certain action or medication be classed as "treatment" and yet makes things worse? That means that people like me would be doubly fucked, becasue it'd be a "choice" between something that doesnt help, or makes things worse, or in the case of medications, have severe side effects, or ending up homeless on the street. Why the fuck should anybody have to live a life like that?
[quote]The only exception is those who are[B] wholly incapacitated[/B] but they should still be required to work when they are able to, at any time.[/quote]
You contradict ourself there, since, wholly incapacitated implies not being able to do any work at all.
You truly have no idea just how bad it is to be partially or wholly incapable. LEt me put this to you:
There is a procedure, that the doctors [I]could[/I] do on my back, but they actually completely refuse to because it has an extremly high chance of either putting me in a wheelchair [B]or flat out kill me[/B], even if it doesnt' go wrong, there's no assurances it'll work, even if it does go wrong, that may just mean I'm paralysed in a wheelchair and still in as bad pain, if not worse. [B]I STAYED INA ROOM WITH THE DOCTOR FOR FOUR HOURS BEGGING AND PLEADING THAT HE PERFORM THE SURGERY, DESPITE THE RISKS[/B] I suffer so much, that I am willing to risk paralysis and/or death [B]just to try and make the pain go away.[/B] I DO NOT FEAR DEATH, I WAIT FOR IT.
Can you [B]ever[/B] say that you wanted something to stop so badly you would genuinely risk what mobility you have, or even your life, on a 35% chance that you may feel [I]slightly less[/I] pain?
You're fit, and healthy, you have no idea how much I just want to have a life like normal people, [I]but I never will no matter how long I live, it'll only get worse.[/I]
I may handle the reality of my condition well, but others don't, even those who have "lesser" disabilites (believe me, it's all about relativity)
Jst FYI, here's what pretty much happens every day of my life.
I wake up, whenever that is, depending on how badl my pain kept me from sleeping the night before, drag myself to my computer desk and stay ther,e because its the only real thing that i can manage without serious pain and with some semblance of coherence, when i want to get up for anything, I have to work on focusing on what i need to do for a long time before i can actually do it. my kitchen is only 6 feet away from my computer desk, but it takes so much effort and concentration, that I'm bordering on being malnourished. I won't even begin to go on about what happens when I [I]really[/I] need the toilet, as you can guess.
and with all that, you expect me to 1. Be "fit" for work at times 2. [B]KNOW[/B] when I'll be "fit" to work and 3. That i find someone who is willing to put up with me working for them when I'd be working on an unspecified day, at an unspecified time, for an unspecified amount of time? Even charity places wouldn't be able to work with that.
Believe me, as my own mother would attest, you may think you can know, understand and sympathise to people who are partially or wholly disabled, you never [I]really[/I] do until it actually happens to you. Even "partial" disability is so out of the scope of normal, healthy people, that it's not even funny.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;39250934]Would you let someone die because they don't want to work?
Would you let someone die because they aren't able to work? (Whether wholly incapacitated, or as you've described, partially incapacitated, to the extent that they're basically unemployable.)
You trivialise those who are partially incapacitated, by saying, essentially "they can work, they just dont want to", when you have no idea just how much your life can be fucked up by something you'd view as partially incapacitated.
As for
What if the government/health care workers in charge, deem that a certain action or medication be classed as "treatment" and yet makes things worse? That means that people like me would be doubly fucked, becasue it'd be a "choice" between something that doesnt help, or makes things worse, or in the case of medications, have severe side effects, or ending up homeless on the street. Why the fuck should anybody have to live a life like that?
You contradict ourself there, since, wholly incapacitated implies not being able to do any work at all.
You truly have no idea just how bad it is to be partially or wholly incapable. LEt me put this to you:
There is a procedure, that the doctors [I]could[/I] do on my back, but they actually completely refuse to because it has an extremly high chance of either putting me in a wheelchair [B]or flat out kill me[/B], even if it doesnt' go wrong, there's no assurances it'll work, even if it does go wrong, that may just mean I'm paralysed in a wheelchair and still in as bad pain, if not worse. [B]I STAYED INA ROOM WITH THE DOCTOR FOR FOUR HOURS BEGGING AND PLEADING THAT HE PERFORM THE SURGERY, DESPITE THE RISKS[/B] I suffer so much, that I am willing to risk paralysis and/or death [B]just to try and make the pain go away.[/B] I DO NOT FEAR DEATH, I WAIT FOR IT.
Can you [B]ever[/B] say that you wanted something to stop so badly you would genuinely risk what mobility you have, or even your life, on a 35% chance that you may feel [I]slightly less[/I] pain?
You're fit, and healthy, you have no idea how much I just want to have a life like normal people, [I]but I never will no matter how long I live, it'll only get worse.[/I]
I may handle the reality of my condition well, but others don't, even those who have "lesser" disabilites (believe me, it's all about relativity)
Jst FYI, here's what pretty much happens every day of my life.
I wake up, whenever that is, depending on how badl my pain kept me from sleeping the night before, drag myself to my computer desk and stay ther,e because its the only real thing that i can manage without serious pain and with some semblance of coherence, when i want to get up for anything, I have to work on focusing on what i need to do for a long time before i can actually do it. my kitchen is only 6 feet away from my computer desk, but it takes so much effort and concentration, that I'm bordering on being malnourished. I won't even begin to go on about what happens when I [I]really[/I] need the toilet, as you can guess.
and with all that, you expect me to 1. Be "fit" for work at times 2. [B]KNOW[/B] when I'll be "fit" to work and 3. That i find someone who is willing to put up with me working for them when I'd be working on an unspecified day, at an unspecified time, for an unspecified amount of time? Even charity places wouldn't be able to work with that.
Believe me, as my own mother would attest, you may think you can know, understand and sympathise to people who are partially or wholly disabled, you never [I]really[/I] do until it actually happens to you. Even "partial" disability is so out of the scope of normal, healthy people, that it's not even funny.[/QUOTE]
Well, I certainly don't want my taxes going to workshy scroungers. I want it helping to get people into work and punishing those who refuse to work.
And no, I refer to incapacity as something, i.e. something that legitimately obstructs someone from working. However, I believe they should work when they're able to. Anyway, you say that you're fine with the disabled receiving sustenance yet you say that the system needs to stop the workshy (i.e. those who generally don't want to work) from leeching on handouts. I'm sure many other like minded working folk such as myself think that you should be required to accept treatments that help make you more workable, even if there are side effects.
You also state that a pain of disability is relative, so are you saying that there are those who are more disabled than others? What if other disabled folk like yourself deem you to be insufficiently disabled like perhaps you are, maybe you're saying that someone with social anxiety isn't sufficiently disabled to warrant the free sustenance you deem yourself to be deserving of.
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Valnar;39250867]No.
It's horrible to even suggest something like that.[/QUOTE]
Governments want people to work. Social handouts are only given to those that are incapacitated and to those who are wanting to work. If there are fit and well individuals found who don't want to work, governments will quite happily see them left to the streets to die. Many working folk like myself too who pay their sustenance would prefer them to rot if they refuse to work.
Thus, there are the deserving and undeserving poor. The undeserving are those who don't want to work. They deserve the gun pointed at their head to be shot.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling, sadistic, or just crazy. Likely some combination of all three." - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39251300]
Thus, there are the deserving and undeserving poor. The undeserving are those who don't want to work. They deserve the gun pointed at their head to be shot.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4083/5055032357_69d1d1be72.jpg[/img]
Shows over move along people
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39251300]Governments want people to work. Social handouts are only given to those that are incapacitated and to those who are wanting to work. If there are fit and well individuals found who don't want to work, governments will quite happily see them left to the streets to die. Many working folk like myself too who pay their sustenance would prefer them to rot if they refuse to work.
Thus, there are the deserving and undeserving poor. The undeserving are those who don't want to work. They deserve the gun pointed at their head to be shot.[/QUOTE]
You have to be a troll.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39251300]And no, I refer to incapacity as something, i.e. something that legitimately obstructs someone from working. However, I believe they should work when they're able to. Anyway, you say that you're fine with the disabled receiving sustenance yet you say that the system needs to stop the workshy[/QUOTE]
Yes, because the disabled genuinely need those "handouts" to continue living, but you think we should all just die and not be a burden to society (Hello Ebenezer Scrooge!)
[quote] I'm sure many other like minded working folk such as myself think that you should be required to accept treatments that help make you more workable, even if there are side effects. [/quote]
Right, so people should be [B]forced[/B] to take medication that can have very nasty side effects, just because it [B]might[/B] help make them a little more workable?
Here's the side effects of one of [I]thirteen[/I] different medications the doctors gave me to try for a year.
Depression
Total inability to drink alcohol at all (not that I drink)
Loss of appetite
Dry mouth.
Drowsiness.
Blurred vision.
Constipation.
Nausea.
Difficulty in passing urine.
Drop in blood pressure when moving from a lying or sitting position to sitting or standing, causing dizziness and lightheadedness (postural hypotension).
Sweating.
Involuntary muscle movements such as tremors or twitching.
Rashes.
Confusion or delirium.
Headache.
Sexual problems.
Changes in behaviour.
Increased appetite and weight gain.
Taste disturbances.
Low blood pressure (hypotension).
Disturbances in the normal numbers of blood cells in the blood.
Abnormal heart beats.
Faster than normal heart beat (tachycardia).
Convulsions (fits).
And that is, as I said, just one of the thirteen tablets I was taking at one point (none of which worked). All those side effects, and many more, just to please healthy people who have no idea what disability is, by [I]maybe[/I] making me slightly fit to work (they didn't) And all those side effects on top of what I already have to deal with.
[QUOTE=Valnar;39251395]You have to be a troll.[/QUOTE]
I'm not. Look at what the mandatory work activity mandates those on unemployment to do in the UK, and in the US. If they don't want to work, they have no other benefits to take. Thus, if they have no peers who are willing to help them -- and I'm quite certain no one wants a workshy scrounger dependent on them -- they have nothing. Thus, the workshy is pushed to the streets and left to starve.
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;39251451]Yes, because the disabled genuinely need those "handouts" to continue living, but you think we should all just die and not be a burden to society (Hello Ebenezer Scrooge!)
Right, so people should be [B]forced[/B] to take medication that can have very nasty side effects, just because it [B]might[/B] help make them a little more workable?
Here's the side effects of one of [I]thirteen[/I] different medications the doctors gave me to try for a year.
Depression
Total inability to drink alcohol at all (not that I drink)
Loss of appetite
Dry mouth.
Drowsiness.
Blurred vision.
Constipation.
Nausea.
Difficulty in passing urine.
Drop in blood pressure when moving from a lying or sitting position to sitting or standing, causing dizziness and lightheadedness (postural hypotension).
Sweating.
Involuntary muscle movements such as tremors or twitching.
Rashes.
Confusion or delirium.
Headache.
Sexual problems.
Changes in behaviour.
Increased appetite and weight gain.
Taste disturbances.
Low blood pressure (hypotension).
Disturbances in the normal numbers of blood cells in the blood.
Abnormal heart beats.
Faster than normal heart beat (tachycardia).
Convulsions (fits).
And that is, as I said, just one of the thirteen tablets I was taking at one point (none of which worked). All those side effects, and many more, just to please healthy people who have no idea what disability is, by [I]maybe[/I] making me slightly fit to work (they didn't) And all those side effects on top of what I already have to deal with.[/QUOTE]
Well, unfortunate for your kind and those of the unemployed, governments are now taking "radical" action to get you people into work. You most probably won't be forced into work and will probably be exempt, but they will try and prod you. For the "lesser" disabled, they will likely be forced to take anti-depressants else face losing their handouts and being refused hardship -- that's if they refuse to take the steps that are placed before them to help get them into work. The government will probably not cave from the "side effects" because the side effect it's experiencing from the welfare state is too many people not working. The government would much rather those side effects manifest, so long as they are working.
I seem to remember you made another thread along these lines before.
The issue is that the measures in place to stop the system being cheated actually mean it has to be.
15 job applications a week seems like a small number but that's easily the amount of jobs available to people per month, each with 100+ applications. The only way to claim benefits after the initial burst of applications is to make stuff up. Weather workshy or not, the system just plain doesn't work.
That being said, your quote [quote]Thus, there are the deserving and undeserving poor. The undeserving are those who don't want to work. They deserve the gun pointed at their head to be shot.[/quote] is horrendous. If you truly believe this, then you're heartless.
[QUOTE=TheHypnotoad;39251504]I seem to remember you made another thread along these lines before.
The issue is that the measures in place to stop the system being cheated actually mean it has to be.
15 job applications a week seems like a small number but that's easily the amount of jobs available to people per month, each with 100+ applications. The only way to claim benefits after the initial burst of applications is to make stuff up. Weather workshy or not, the system just plain doesn't work.
That being said, your quote is horrendous. If you truly believe this, then you're heartless.[/QUOTE]
So you think the system is being cheated -- i.e. people claiming free food, water and shelter without wanting to work -- yet you also think that people should be required to look for work and work when they can. Are you not contradicting yourself? Either you let them all have their free sustenance (which I have mentioned many times wouldn't work (read my OP on [B]their solution?[/B] for clarification of why)) so those who don't want to work aren't left to die [b](i.e. those who don't want to work are the undeserving poor)[/b], or you force as many people to work as you can. I think the latter choice is best because it certainly gets an economy moving.
Let's not forget, hard working honest taxpayers like myself are fed up paying for workshy scroungers. They might only get their sustenance but we're paying for it! We'd much rather them starve to death if they didn't want to work.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39251300]I'm sure many other like minded working folk such as myself think that you should be required to accept treatments that help make you more workable, even if there are side effects.[/QUOTE]
Do you not understand how medications work?
What works for one person, could bring out the WORST side effects in another.
Forcing someone to continue "treatment" like that, even if it provides more negatives than positives, or lose their benefits is just plain evil.
[quote]Governments want people to work. Social handouts are only given to those that are incapacitated and to those who are wanting to work. If there are fit and well individuals found who don't want to work, governments will quite happily see them left to the streets to die. Many working folk like myself too who pay their sustenance would prefer them to rot if they refuse to work.
Thus, there are the deserving and undeserving poor. The undeserving are those who don't want to work. They deserve the gun pointed at their head to be shot.[/quote]
Do you know who you sound like?
[quote][B]First Collector[/B][B]: [/B]At this festive time of year, Mr. Scrooge, it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute. [B]
[B]Ebenezer: [/B][/B]Are there no prisons?[B][B]
[B]First Collector: [/B][/B][/B]Plenty of prisons. [B][B][B]
[B]Ebenezer: [/B][/B][/B][/B]And the union workhouses - are they still in operation? [B][B][B][B]
[B]First Collector: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]They are. I wish I could say they were not. [B][B][B][B][B]
[B]Ebenezer: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]Oh, from what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course. I'm very glad to hear it. [B][B][B][B][B][B]
[B]First Collector: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]I don't think you quite understand us, sir. A few of us are endeavoring to buy the poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. [B][B][B][B][B][B][B]
[B]Ebenezer: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]Why? [B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B]
[B]First Collector: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]Because it is at Christmastime that want is most keenly felt, and abundance rejoices. Now what can I put you down for?[B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B]
[B]Ebenezer: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]Huh! Nothing! [B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B]
[B]Second Collector: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]You wish to be anonymous? [B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B]
[B]Ebenezer: [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][firmly, but calmly[I]][/I] I wish to be left alone. Since you ask me what I wish sir, that is my answer. I help to support the establishments I have named; those who are badly off must go there.[B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][I]
[B]First Collector: [/B][/I][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]Many can't go there.[B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][I][B]
[B]Second Collector: [/B][/B][/I][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]And some would rather die.
[B]Ebenezer:[/B] If [the poor] would rather die, [B]they had better do it[/B], and decrease the surplus population.[/quote]
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39251543]We'd much rather them starve to death if they didn't want to work.[/QUOTE]
You don't speak for everyone.
I'll probably get banned for this, but seriously go back to Nazi Germany.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39251543]So you think the system is being cheated -- i.e. people claiming free food, water and shelter without wanting to work -- yet you also think that people should be required to look for work and work when they can. Are you not contradicting yourself? Either you let them all have their free sustenance (which I have mentioned many times wouldn't work (read my OP on [B]their solution?[/B] for clarification of why)) so those who don't want to work aren't left to die [b](i.e. those who don't want to work are the undeserving poor)[/b], or you force as many people to work as you can. I think the latter choice is best because it certainly gets an economy moving.
Let's not forget, hard working honest taxpayers like myself are fed up paying for workshy scroungers. They might only get their sustenance but we're paying for it! We'd much rather them starve to death if they didn't want to work.[/QUOTE]
There is no we. There is no us. There is only you. And you are so very, very alone.
[QUOTE=Levithan;39251570]Do you not understand how medications work?
What works for one person, could bring out the WORST side effects in another.
Forcing someone to continue "treatment" like that, even if it provides more negatives than positives, or lose their benefits is just plain evil.
Do you know who you sound like?[/QUOTE]
It's not just me advocating these views. It's also the key members of your governments. The very prime minister of the UK, David Cameron wishes for those who are not willing to work to die. You all express your anger to me - an honest hard working citizen - yet you let the likes of him get away with it!
[IMG]http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/1/1600362238-orig.png[/IMG]
OP enter the real world sometime, it isn't too late for you to realise how dumb your brain is.
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