[QUOTE=SEKCobra;51296050]Honestly that was extremely reckless. He endangered himself immensely with that stunt.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;51296100]It's obvious that he's trained that maneuver, it looked very natural the way he did it (especially reloading it with one hand).[/QUOTE]
It is not conventional but there are tactics and training to do what he did. Considering how he handled it and how well he did I would guess he did infact have training to do what he did.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENzsMCSYcw[/media]
Also they were in the middle of nowhere. I don't think he would've done that in town with houses and people around but he made the right call to disable the vehicle and neutralize the shooter before he made his way to a populated area.
See you in hell you piece of shit
It doesn't take much to fire a gun. Even half dead on the ground.
Twitch your finger a little and you could kill somebody
You wanna make sure he is dead. It's probably why they shot him so much
[QUOTE=General;51296978]It doesn't take much to fire a gun. Even half dead on the ground.
Twitch your finger a little and you could kill somebody
You wanna make sure he is dead. It's probably why they shot him so much[/QUOTE]
Not even, if you've got armor, your ass will get knocked down, and you're still fire effective.
"Overkill"
The guy was using advanced tactics. Any average idiot would be doing a run-n'-gun out of their vehicle the second they would have to exit. It's not at all far-fetched to believe he would pull some fake-out shit.
I'd fill the guy with every bit of my clip, too. Taking the chance to lose your own life because some people on the internet might say you were too forceful is ridiculous. You don't know how a situation like that is going to unfold, in the moment.
[editline]2nd November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=plunger435;51296051]You've seen militia men doing this in real life before?[/QUOTE]
The National Guard is considered state militia, I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.
police units on ground had no NVGs etc.
it's easy from the copter with thermals after-video to see he is on ground knocked
but not for the boots on ground
the suspect was actively returning heavy fire, wounded multiple officers and killed multiple people
it's logical you lay suppressive/extensive fire first and ask if he is down later
[QUOTE=Binladen34;51296981]Not even, [B]if you've got armor, your ass will get knocked down[/B], and you're still fire effective.[/QUOTE]
This isn't Hollywood. Bullets don't throw you into walls and off of buildings.
The net energy of a bullet impact is very small. A crossbow with a relatively heavy pull has more kinetic energy than small caliber rifles, and totally trounces most handguns. The penetrating power comes from the speed. The impulse of the impact is delivered over an extremely short period of time. If you've got armor, and get hit in it, yes, you can get some bruising, and larger caliber rounds might actually break some ribs or something, but it isn't enough to pick you up and throw you around.
[QUOTE=Hruhf;51296265]One can only assume that they weren't completely sure he was dead and that he might have just dropped prone or something.[/QUOTE]
Also it was the middle of night and the truck could have had it's lights off.
Yeah the trooper shooting through his windshield is hype as fuck. Look at his face, too.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51297661]This isn't Hollywood. Bullets don't throw you into walls and off of buildings.
The net energy of a bullet impact is very small. A crossbow with a relatively heavy pull has more kinetic energy than small caliber rifles, and totally trounces most handguns. The penetrating power comes from the speed. The impulse of the impact is delivered over an extremely short period of time. If you've got armor, and get hit in it, yes, you can get some bruising, and larger caliber rounds might actually break some ribs or something, but it isn't enough to pick you up and throw you around.[/QUOTE]
I presume he means it'll knock the air out of your lungs, and the shock will make you lose your balance and fall down?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51297661]This isn't Hollywood. Bullets don't throw you into walls and off of buildings.
The net energy of a bullet impact is very small. A crossbow with a relatively heavy pull has more kinetic energy than small caliber rifles, and totally trounces most handguns. The penetrating power comes from the speed. The impulse of the impact is delivered over an extremely short period of time. If you've got armor, and get hit in it, yes, you can get some bruising, and larger caliber rounds might actually break some ribs or something, but it isn't enough to pick you up and throw you around.[/QUOTE]
Being shot with a vest on isn't going to throw you across the room, but it will break ribs and knock the wind right out of you. It will probably put you on your ass but not knock you out of the fight.
That's fucking crazy. I seen videos of training courses involving shooting through a windscreen from inside a vehicle and thought "Yeah but when would anybody really need that skill beyond bodyguard types". There's the answer, and to do it on the move is some mad shit
[QUOTE=DMGaina;51296058]I was highly impressed by the action take until the police officers killed the suspect shot the dead body for [b]over one minute.[/b][/QUOTE]
So you've got a dood whose killed people and you've been in a car chase with, has run a road block, has shot at you, and you finally got him on the ground. Do you just cross your fingers and hope he's incapacitated or dead, or do you pump enough lead into him to be 100% certain without a doubt that he's dead?
Donno about you dood but I would make sure the guys dead as fuck before I even leave cover.
[video=youtube;UK8lj3gYZCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK8lj3gYZCw&ab_channel=InRangeTV[/video]
One of the videos in question
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51295544]"Suspect puts vehicle into reverse and exits, using it as rolling cover to return fire while advancing on the officers."
Holy shit[/QUOTE]
Reminds me sorta of:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRAR9kvjDzE[/media]
[QUOTE=plunger435;51296051]You've seen militia men doing this in real life before?[/QUOTE]
Eyup. Considering how hot the Cartel-Militia ordeal is in the southwest, it's sort of one of those things they train for sanity sake.
I still consider this the best shootout.
It's even better when you realize that no policeman or civilian died during this considering how well equipped and trained the robbers were.
[video=youtube;wZg4mcYkIwU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZg4mcYkIwU[/video]
[QUOTE=Robman8908;51297301]"Overkill"
The guy was using advanced tactics. Any average idiot would be doing a run-n'-gun out of their vehicle the second they would have to exit. It's not at all far-fetched to believe he would pull some fake-out shit.
I'd fill the guy with every bit of my clip, too. Taking the chance to lose your own life because some people on the internet might say you were too forceful is ridiculous. You don't know how a situation like that is going to unfold, in the moment.
[editline]2nd November 2016[/editline]
The National Guard is considered state militia, I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.[/QUOTE]
People fail to realize that deadly force is met with deadly force. It does not matter if they shoot 10 rounds or 60 rounds ultimately the end result is the same.
With a lot of police ambushes what the hell can people expect?
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51298050]I still consider this the best shootout.
It's even better when you realize that no policeman or civilian died during this considering how well equipped and trained the robbers were.
[video=youtube;wZg4mcYkIwU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZg4mcYkIwU[/video][/QUOTE]
The issue was more that the bank robbers were hopped up on drugs and California police didn't have any firearms that could fire armor penetrating rounds. Because of that, the robbers couldn't aim for shit and the cops couldn't kill the robbers till they one offed himself on accident and the other was finally taken down.
IIRC police even went to a gunshop to try and get better equipped during the shootout.
I can't imagine the adrenaline when that officer heard that the guy was [I]coming toward him[/I].
[QUOTE=DMGaina;51296058]I was highly impressed by the action take until the police officers killed the suspect shot the dead body for [b]over one minute.[/b][/QUOTE]
Well it's dark, the guy fell on his weapon. You can't be sure the threat is down just because he went down after that one burst. But after 60+ shots, chances are much higher. And those AR-15's... while they're nice and all, if the guy you're shooting at is adrenaline filled, unless you hit them in the head the only way to disable them on the spot is to actually hit bone and take out their ability to support themselves, OR pump them full of rounds. 5.56/.223 have pretty mediocre stopping power because it's such a small round and has such a high velocity
And trying to hit anything in the dark is crazy hard. I'm amazed at how many times that officer hit the truck while shooting while driving and while it was dark. A lot of PD's do not let you shoot from a moving vehicle, but it's a good thing this one does because ultimately that's what brought this killing maniac to his end
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51298062]The issue was more that the bank robbers were hopped up on drugs and California police didn't have any firearms that could fire armor penetrating rounds. Because of that, the robbers couldn't aim for shit and the cops couldn't kill the robbers till they one offed himself on accident and the other was finally taken down.
IIRC police even went to a gunshop to try and get better equipped during the shootout.[/QUOTE]
I think at the time SWAT didn't even have AP rounds yet. I remember watching a documentary on this years ago.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;51298872]Well it's dark, the guy fell on his weapon. You can't be sure the threat is down just because he went down after that one burst. But after 60+ shots, chances are much higher. And those AR-15's... while they're nice and all, if the guy you're shooting at is adrenaline filled, unless you hit them in the head the only way to disable them on the spot is to actually hit bone and take out their ability to support themselves, OR pump them full of rounds. 5.56/.223 have pretty mediocre stopping power because it's such a small round and has such a high velocity
And trying to hit anything in the dark is crazy hard. I'm amazed at how many times that officer hit the truck while shooting while driving and while it was dark. A lot of PD's do not let you shoot from a moving vehicle, but it's a good thing this one does because ultimately that's what brought this killing maniac to his end[/QUOTE]
The myth of 5.56 and 223 being ineffective or weak is a load of bullshit. Any amount of research will tell you that. If 5.56 was as garbage as everyone says it is, then it wouldn't be in use.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51299272]The myth of 5.56 and 223 being ineffective or weak is a load of bullshit. Any amount of research will tell you that. If 5.56 was as garbage as everyone says it is, then it wouldn't be in use.[/QUOTE]
I think the main complaint with it was that firefights in the mountains of Afghanistan were pushing 5.56 rifles to the limits of their effective range. And those complaints got blown out of proportion by most people to think 5.56 = trash.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;51296050]Honestly that was extremely reckless. He endangered himself immensely with that stunt.[/QUOTE]
Who dares wins.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51297853]Being shot with a vest on isn't going to throw you across the room, but it will break ribs and [B]knock the wind right out of you. It will probably put you on your ass [/B]but not knock you out of the fight.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Still wrong.
Do the math. Your typical handgun bullet has substantially less force than a 1kg weight being dropped a couple centimeters. Larger caliber rifles are on par with dropping it 10-15 cm. It's the fine point and short duration of the impact (due to velocity) that let them penetrate. Concussively speaking, a strong punch delivers orders of magnitude more energy. It's just dissipated over a larger area, and over a [i]much[/i] longer period of time.
See the video I posted earlier where a trauma surgeon says the exact same thing, and tells you about the causes of death.
Force comes in different forms. This is exactly the reason why NFL players aren't constantly breaking bones, but have enormous problems with soft tissue damage, and wind up with cream cheese instead of a brain.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51299272]The myth of 5.56 and 223 being ineffective or weak is a load of bullshit. Any amount of research will tell you that. If 5.56 was as garbage as everyone says it is, then it wouldn't be in use.[/QUOTE]
They are pretty trash when you're fighting guys who pump themselves full of epinephrine before going into a fight. You actually do have to pump them to get them to drop
Fun fact about the North Hollywood Shootout: Phillips and Mătăsăreanu had fired about 1,100 rounds, approximately a round every two seconds.
Back on topic, this is the officer who shot out of the car:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5VbDl62.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51299369]Nope. Still wrong.
Do the math. Your typical handgun bullet has substantially less force than a 1kg weight being dropped a couple centimeters. Larger caliber rifles are on par with dropping it 10-15 cm. It's the fine point and short duration of the impact (due to velocity) that let them penetrate. Concussively speaking, a strong punch delivers orders of magnitude more energy. It's just dissipated over a larger area, and over a [i]much[/i] longer period of time.
See the video I posted earlier where a trauma surgeon says the exact same thing, and tells you about the causes of death.
Force comes in different forms. This is exactly the reason why NFL players aren't constantly breaking bones, but have enormous problems with soft tissue damage, and wind up with cream cheese instead of a brain.[/QUOTE]
Its nice you did the math but literally every account of anyone who has been shot while wearing a bullet proof vest goes against what you said. Any amount of google image searching will show that being hit woth a vest on will cause bruising and sometimes cracked ribs. You can go on youtube if you like and look at videos of vest testing with guys wearing vests. I could post albums of bruises caused by bulletproof vests but Ill let you do the research yourself.
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;51299320]I think the main complaint with it was that firefights in the mountains of Afghanistan were pushing 5.56 rifles to the limits of their effective range. And those complaints got blown out of proportion by most people to think 5.56 = trash.[/QUOTE]
Most of the myths are generated from Vietnam and Somalia. One instance everyome brings up is a Somolian fighter who took 10+ rounds without dropping. But in the same battle, another old man took 7 rounds of 7.62x51 before he dropped. Its all nonsense either way.
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;51299409]They are pretty trash when you're fighting guys who pump themselves full of epinephrine before going into a fight. You actually do have to pump them to get them to drop[/QUOTE]
Those types of guys are in the minority, but 5.56 has as much trouble with them as 7.62x51 or any rifle or intermediate round.
this is why we should just arm police helicopters with a 30mm or something
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
