[QUOTE=Wii60;46726850]Because stuff like this is sold/ is going to be sold on steam
but hatred isn't.[/QUOTE]
these games were not put on steam through greenlight
valve personally a-ok'd them, whereas with this Valve had to step in to stop it getting put on
like it or not, hatred is offensive first and a game second. It should not be allowed on steam. Postal is offensive but it is not glorifying violence in any way. GTAV and COD:MW2 are not murder simulators, these aren't the only parts of the game.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;46726828]I see a huge issue with this. They gladly remove a game to save their own skin but to remove [B]all the crap and scams[/B] and protect customers is not something they're interested in. Very scummy.[/QUOTE]
they're a company, of course the company is going to put themselves first it's not scummy it's just business, and i don't recall there being any crappy / scammy games that haven't eventually gotten removed from steam and/or offered a refund.
[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;46726800]i don't personally see the issue with valve removing this game from steam when it was obviously a PR move. i don't see where they're in the wrong for not wanting to sell a game that glorifies mass murder, and with a main selling point being that it's needlessly edgy.
and before people bring up "but what about gta / postal etc." I'd like to say that gta has way more to do in it aside from mindlessly slaughtering civilians, and it isn't the point of that game. postal is a lot closer to Hatred content-wise, yes, but the main character is obviously seen to be deranged / possessed by a demon (??) and none of the murder is glorified, or depicted nearly as realistically. that entire game is an uncomfortable experience from start to end.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say the violence in Hatred is glorified either. It seems to be very fucked up all around, and kinda puts you in the same shoes as Postal 1 does, ala you're being forced by the game to kill and attack people. However in Postal, there was an excuse (demons, etc.) Here, it's making [I]you[/I] the bad guy, plain and simple. No excuses. I think that's what makes it uncomfortable.
At least in GTAV you have a third person camera, same with P1, P2 was comedic so it got away with it. There's so many specific ways you can go with a game like Hatred and they did every single one of them wrong, which made it fucked up in comparison to those games.
[QUOTE=Korova;46726851]And what does that matter? Valve isn't Walmart and it isn't Gamestop. It is a digital storefront for PC gamers, PC gamers are generally enthusiast users that are really into gaming. Hatred being available on Steam wouldn't stop anybody from using Steam.
Valve could spin the narrative and come out and say "Video games are an artistic medium just like film and there are certainly films out there with questionable content. We will not censor the storefront and our community-driven Greenlight program unless it violates the terms of service or the law."
Instead, they're hypocrites that sell equally objectionable content.[/QUOTE]
Valve is a business and of course they're going to act with the business' interests in mind, I can't see why people don't get this. as booster said, this game is a PR [B]NIGHTMARE[/B].
[QUOTE=papaya;46726657][img]http://i.imgur.com/XiQn2Ay.png[/img]
what exactly is the issue[/QUOTE]
Offensive material is extremely open to interpretation. Postal 2 was greenlit and it contains racist stereotypes of Muslims, you can stick a bomb up a cat's ass and throw it at someone and watch it explode. You can piss in someone's mouth while they're talking and they'll begin to puke and you're able to blow their head off while the puke chunks are still coming out. Why wasn't that taken off?
I have an idea why it wasn't taken off, it was made by a successful company and it was an established intellectual property. Same reason as to why Postal 1 Redux isn't going to be taken off even though it is the [b]same fucking game as Hatred[/b].
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;46726895]Valve is a business and of course they're going to act with the business' interests in mind, I can't see why people don't get this. as booster said, this game is a PR [B]NIGHTMARE[/B].[/QUOTE]
There's no argument there, this game is a PR nightmare but like I said, their numbers aren't being threatened by Fox News writing about Steam in a negative way.
I find it extremely hypocritical that Postal and Manhunt are being sold but this isn't? I'd argue that the removal of Hatred makes Valve look infinitely worse to their users/potential users than if they had just allowed the game to come out and allow the negative press to come their way.
[QUOTE=Korova;46726913]There's no argument there, this game is a PR nightmare but like I said, their numbers aren't being threatened by Fox News writing about Steam in a negative way. [/QUOTE]
any loss is a terrible loss for any company, as it has a ripple effect that ends up losing more people than percieved. please, do not ever run a company.
[QUOTE=Korova;46726913]Offensive material is extremely open to interpretation. Postal 2 was greenlit and it contains racist stereotypes of Muslims, you can stick a bomb up a cat's ass and throw it at someone and watch it explode. You can piss in someone's mouth while they're talking and they'll begin to puke and you're able to blow their head off while the puke chunks are still coming out. Why wasn't that taken off?
I have an idea why it wasn't taken off, it was made by a successful company and it was an established intellectual property. Same reason as to why Postal 1 Redux isn't going to be taken off even though it is the [b]same fucking game as Hatred[/b].[/QUOTE]
postal 2 is a parody
postal 1 is a classic and does not glorify violence in any way (it was added a good decade after its initial release)
hatred is a deplorable, disgusting 'game' and valve is 100% in the right to stop it being published on their service.
[QUOTE=papaya;46726657][img]http://i.imgur.com/XiQn2Ay.png[/img]
what exactly is the issue[/QUOTE]
Literally every single fucking game in existence is offensive to some people.
And even if you'd argue that there's a "threshold of offensiveness", I remind you that Postal 2 was banned in several countries, yet remains on steam.
The issue exactly is inconsistency of enforcing the rules.
Without greenlight the devs would have just gone up to Valve, asked to add it to steam and they would have replied 'no'.
what exactly is the issue here.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46726946]any loss is a terrible loss for any company, as it has a ripple effect that ends up losing more people than percieved. please, do not ever run a company.[/QUOTE]
Would you rather appease your existing userbase by standing your ground by saying "video games are art and if that means we have to put up with the equivalent of an exploitation film in order to promote creative freedom then so be it" or pander to the media by removing this title?
Gamers are already sick of having their medium treated poorly. They're already tired of stupid legislation to keep adults from doing what they want to do. If there was one company I could have depended on when it comes to defending this artistic medium, it was Valve and I have lost a lot of respect for them because of this.
Remember kids, Ironic mass murder is okay!
[QUOTE=papaya;46726950]postal 2 is a parody
postal 1 is a classic and does not glorify violence in any way (it was added a good decade after its initial release)
hatred is a deplorable, disgusting 'game' and valve is 100% in the right to stop it being published on their service.[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is, Valve put it up on Steam because of its age and since it was so old, there was little to no resistance against putting it up on Steam.
So I suppose if Hatred does well and they make Hatred 2 into more of a light hearted murder fest, we can expect the original to come out on Steam in ten years because it's considered a "classic"?
[QUOTE=Korova;46726982]
Gamers are already sick of having their medium treated poorly. They're already tired of stupid legislation to keep adults from doing what they want to do. If there was one company I could have depended on when it comes to defending this artistic medium, it was Valve and I have lost a lot of respect for them because of this.[/QUOTE]
bloody hell
this isn't games being 'treated poorly', this is an offensive game being removed from a shop for being offensive.
I really REALLY don't understand why you guys can't at least understand that steam doesn't have some ground to stand on with this PR nightmare of the game. Postal 1 may be a spree killing game, but it's also one of PC gaming's dark little secrets the media don't really know or care about, and it's not particularly realistic. It's old, that's the only reason it's on steam, and if it came out today it would also be pulled from the store.
[QUOTE=proch;46726989]Remember kids, Ironic mass murder is okay![/QUOTE]
As long as the distinction between real violence and fictional violence is made, I'm okay with mass murder in video games/
[QUOTE=Korova;46726982]Would you rather appease your existing userbase by standing your ground by saying "video games are art and if that means we have to put up with the equivalent of an exploitation film in order to promote creative freedom then so be it" or pander to the media by removing this title?
Gamers are already sick of having their medium treated poorly. They're already tired of stupid legislation to keep adults from doing what they want to do. If there was one company I could have depended on when it comes to defending this artistic medium, it was Valve and I have lost a lot of respect for them because of this.[/QUOTE]
going along with your film comparison, exploitation films aren't anything you see in the theater, major retailers. that doesn't mean it's impossible to find anywhere else.
same exact thing with this game.
[QUOTE=papaya;46727001]bloody hell
this isn't games being 'treated poorly', this is an offensive game being removed from a shop for being offensive.[/QUOTE]
Offensive to who? The game was marked as "I would buy this game if it were on Steam" by 15,000 people in a single day. Don't like it? Don't play it. It wasn't hurting anybody.
How does Postal 1 not glorify violence are you kidding me
Have you ever even played Postal 1
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;46727002]I really REALLY don't understand why you guys can't at least understand that steam doesn't have some ground to stand on with this PR nightmare of the game. Postal 1 may be a spree killing game, but it's also one of PC gaming's dark little secrets the media don't really know or care about, and it's not particularly realistic. It's old, that's the only reason it's on steam, and if it came out today it would also be pulled from the store.[/QUOTE]
So I can expect to see Postal Redux removed from Greenlight when it releases next year?
[url]http://www.pcgamer.com/postal-redux-confirmed-for-next-year/[/url]
[QUOTE=Korova;46726982]Would you rather appease your existing userbase by standing your ground by saying "video games are art and if that means we have to put up with the equivalent of an exploitation film in order to promote creative freedom then so be it" or pander to the media by removing this title?
Gamers are already sick of having their medium treated poorly. They're already tired of stupid legislation to keep adults from doing what they want to do. If there was one company I could have depended on when it comes to defending this artistic medium, it was Valve and I have lost a lot of respect for them because of this.[/QUOTE]
Them removing Hatred isn't such a big loss to the gaming community. Sure this game could in some sense be called "artistic" but Valve obviously thinks the game has crossed the line and don't want anything to do with this game.
[QUOTE=Korova;46727010]Don't like it? Don't play it. It wasn't hurting anybody.[/QUOTE]
as i've already said with the PR nightmare remark, this literally has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
[QUOTE=Korova;46727010]Offensive to who?[/QUOTE]
anybody with a sense of decency
[QUOTE=Korova;46727003]As long as the distinction between real violence and fictional violence is made, I'm okay with mass murder in video games/[/QUOTE]
Obviously the post regards video game mass murder, since it is stated in a discussion about video games featuring mass murder.
Point being that Hatred is so offensive that it is taken down, while when things are ironic it's suddenly all a-okay.
[QUOTE=booster;46727015]Them removing Hatred isn't such a big loss to the gaming community. Sure this game could in some sense be called "artistic" but Valve obviously thinks the game has crossed the line and don't want anything to do with this game.[/QUOTE]
And they're within their right to remove the game, as we're within our rights to call Valve out for hypocritical behavior.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=papaya;46727025]anybody with a sense of decency[/QUOTE]
It's a video game.
[QUOTE=Korova;46727014]So I can expect to see Postal Redux removed from Greenlight when it releases next year?
[url]http://www.pcgamer.com/postal-redux-confirmed-for-next-year/[/url][/QUOTE]
Probably.
Are you trying to get me to say no? I mean, the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;46727035]Probably.
Are you trying to get me to say no? I mean, the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.[/QUOTE]
I really doubt they'll remove Postal Redux because they're not able to bully RWS given that they're a developer with almost 20 years of experience in the industry.
[QUOTE=papaya;46727025]anybody with a sense of decency[/QUOTE]
Anyone with a sense of decency wouldn't throw a fit over a mediocre-looking game
[QUOTE=Korova;46727048]I really doubt they'll remove Postal Redux because they're not able to bully RWS given that they're a developer with almost 20 years of experience in the industry.[/QUOTE]
And the fact that Postal Redux wont bring forth a media disaster.
[QUOTE=booster;46727069]And the fact that Postal Redux wont bring forth a media disaster.[/QUOTE]
Why? It's a spree shooter game being released in 2015.
[QUOTE=papaya;46726950]
postal 1 is a classic and does not glorify violence in any way (it was added a good decade after its initial release)
[/QUOTE]
Lol are you actually trolling right now or being serious?
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