[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46726693]But I'll say this: no game has ever generated as much controversy as Hatred, except possibly Hot Coffee or Mortal Kombat. Therefore, it makes sense for Valve not wanting to put it on their storefront.[/QUOTE]
[I]Oh no[/I]. Fucking Kotaku wrote an article about how evil it is. Woe betide us.
Like, call me when it at least gets to Fox News. Even Mass Effect got that far.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;46727980]I haven't really kept up with the subject matter of the game but last I heard it's a game about murdering unarmed minorities and it was developed by a team with a few, shall we say, "right-leaning" members. If that's true, how is this game at all defensible? If not, then I guess it is hypocritical.[/QUOTE]
It isn't a minority murdering simulator, it's an everyone murdering simulator.All groups are equally represented, as far as I know.
And I guess some of the devs might be right wing. They certainly aren't fucking nazis. In either case, are we going to start censoring media based on the political views of some of the people who worked on it now?
this is a game solely made to simulate mass murder, the things you guys are comparing it to are [I]sections[/I] of some games that are considered offensive or whatever, except for postal which is a dumb argument because it's old as fuck and it's too silly to take seriously
this game looks disgusting and i have no idea why anyone is mad that it won't be on steam
[QUOTE=Xubs;46728015]did you know Pokemon was controversial at one point? Like, to the point every major US news organization was saying Pokemon was going to infect the kids with its Satanic demon powers?
Did you know D&D was highly controversial at one point? It was believed to be the gateway to the occult. Again, news organizations couldn't shut up about it. A fucking MOVIE was made on this premise: Mazes and Monsters, where the titular D&D-like tabletop game leads to some kids getting in some weird as fuck occult shit.
Hatred barely entered the mainstream. The closest it got was Kotaku reporting about it. The controversy is squarely Valve's fault, I never heard anyone get this mad about the game, only mad at Valve.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc9SLpDfYLc[/media]
all media censorship arguments in a nutshell
[QUOTE=Shark Cat;46728032]and it's too silly to take seriously[/QUOTE]
"I never played postal"
Point taken. I guess I was referring to more mainstream controversies, which is to me the ones I've heard (how closed minded of me.) GTA and Mortal Kombat were the only two I could think about, the rest were short lived. Hatred is one of the first games to really stir up a lot of shit compared to Postal, Manhunt, Sleeping Dogs, etc. I mean, we get a dime-a-dozen violent as hell video games, similar to movies, but only some actually stir up shit (GTA, Hatred, Mortal Kombat, etc) while others slip under the radar and are forgotten about quickly.
When you look at it, games like GTA have a ton of advertising surrounding them, which is why they're heard of, and fought against. Comparatively, did you see many Postal tv ads? However, with all that said, I don't have a reason for why Hatred getting so much attention. Maybe it's because this game sells itself on how batshit nuts it is. Either way, games with that much controversy, one that mind you, is being completely established by the game devs (they know exactly what they're doing), are just going to have a bad time getting on a platform, regardless of what other shit may sell under the radar.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46726693]But I'll say this: no game has ever generated as much controversy as Hatred, except possibly Hot Coffee or Mortal Kombat. Therefore, it makes sense for Valve not wanting to put it on their storefront.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah that game has created mountains of controversy you're right, the discussion on its trailer lasted [I]a whole week ![/I] what a shitstorm.
If it wasn't for Steam removing the game then people would have immediately forgotten about it, because "game gets greenlit" is hardly shitstorm material. Also worth mentioning that "mainstream controversies" never truly last, when a violent game gets released a lot of news outlets pick up on it and talk about it for less than a week because it increases TV ratings and whatnot but they don't actually spend any more time on it.
Besides, this entire current controversy isn't as much about Hatred as it is about Steam being just shitty on this one issue. Thousands of complaints about outright scams like Air Control and not a single response, yet a few days after Hatred gets greenlit and steam immediately takes it down without issuing a single public statement on the matter.
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;46728051]"I never played postal"[/QUOTE]
i've played postal 1 and 2 and they're both old, cartoony and stupid
this is a new game with realistic graphics and animations
[QUOTE=Shark Cat;46728149]i've played postal 1 and 2 and they're both old, cartoony and stupid
this is a new game with realistic graphics and animations[/QUOTE]
You must not have played postal for more than three minutes if you think it's cartoony and stupid
It's got a heavy sarcastic/cynical tone, sure, but it's far from being goofy satire like Postal 2 is. It's a game about schizophrenia - one that ends on a failed school rampage.
[QUOTE=onebit;46726623]Consider a child might play this and consider it acceptable behavior, if there is no one else around to tell it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Considering I grew up playing games where you fuck hookers to regain health, then kill them with rockets, knives, or giant dildos to get my money back, this game is like a drop in the pool all things considered. I never watch TB, but I can fully agree with this video.
[quote]October 27, 2002[/quote]
This is the release date of Vice City, anybody else feeling old yet?
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46728245] This is the release date of Vice City, anybody else feeling old yet?[/QUOTE]
I'm here sitting playing Baldur's Gate 2, played it last time over 13-14 years ago, while being on the topic of feeling old, I already played first Baldur's Gate.
I dislike that that a developer of a game isn't allowed to sell his or her game just because it causes a fuss with people who don't like it
what a age we live in. games are supposed to be fun, certain people might find this game fun, why not let them do it?
stupid
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46728173]You must not have played postal for more than three minutes if you think it's cartoony and stupid
It's got a heavy sarcastic/cynical tone, sure, but it's far from being goofy satire like Postal 2 is. It's a game about schizophrenia - one that ends on a failed school rampage.[/QUOTE]
regardless, you can't honestly say that this game which was released in 1997 is anywhere near as graphic
[video=youtube;VDemhscUclA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDemhscUclA[/video]
idk man, different opinions i guess, i just think hatred looks a little too disturbing to be something steam would want to have on their storefront
I wish they'd remove more to be honest
[QUOTE=Shark Cat;46728391]regardless, you can't honestly say that this game which was released in 1997 is anywhere near as graphic
[video=youtube;VDemhscUclA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDemhscUclA[/video]
idk man, different opinions i guess, i just think hatred looks a little too disturbing to be something steam would want to have on their storefront[/QUOTE]
So in 17 years people will compare hatred to the latest controversial game and say "BUT HATRED HAD BAD GFX!! !!"
Personally I find the hatred trailer incredibly goofy, even though that's not the intention. For the most part real life massacres don't play out with the killer stopping to slit peoples throats or smash their heads on something, its just so dramatic its silly.
Its ridiculous for Valve to act like a bastion of openness and talk about how they succeeded only because of openness then actively work to censor their platform.
[QUOTE=Stents*;46728841]
Its ridiculous for Valve to act like a bastion of openness and talk about how they succeeded only because of openness then actively work to censor their platform.[/QUOTE]
how is removing one game [i]designed to be offensive and controversial[/i] actively censoring their platform?
[QUOTE=papaya;46728910]how is removing a game [i]designed to be offensive and controversial[/i] actively censoring their platform?[/QUOTE]
You have to be joking
[QUOTE=Wikipedia]Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Stents*;46728969]You have to be joking[/QUOTE]
removing one game isnt actively censoring
Sorry if somebody already said this, but what stopped Valve from just ignoring it on Greenlight? Removing it shows that they put effort in not accepting it.
[QUOTE=AkujiTheSniper;46729019]Sorry if somebody already said this, but what stopped Valve from just ignoring it on Greenlight? Removing it shows that they put effort in not accepting it.[/QUOTE]
if its on greenlight it'll remain on greenlight until it's accepted, if valve just ignores it then it will consistently be the highest rated game and people will be more suspicious
its better if valve just removes it rather than let it get popular
also removing it this early removes any advertisement the company may have got from it being on greenlight
I think TB forgot that the Steam platform is a privately held publishing platform for Valve, and because of that they can do literally whatever they want and say yes or no to whatever they want because [b]they own the damned platform[/b]. Him asking for stuff like "Cite the rule that they broke" "Why have this and not that" and even calling them cowards makes him sound super entitled.
[QUOTE=papaya;46728979]one game isnt actively censoring[/QUOTE]
This is what we call moving the goalpost.
Also what part of that definition said that there has to be multiple instances?
[QUOTE=papaya;46729048]if its on greenlight it'll remain on greenlight until it's accepted, if valve just ignores it then it will consistently be the highest rated game and people will be more suspicious
its better if valve just removes it rather than let it get popular
also removing it this early removes any advertisement the company may have got from it being on greenlight[/QUOTE]
Ever heard of the Streisand Effect?
[QUOTE=Nutnoze;46729056]I think TB forgot that the Steam platform is a privately held publishing platform for Valve, and because of that they can do literally whatever they want and say yes or no to whatever they want because [b]they own the damned platform[/b]. Him asking for stuff like "Cite the rule that they broke" "Why have this and not that" and even calling them cowards makes him sound super entitled.[/QUOTE]
Did you watch the video? He said this is entirely in their own right do to, just as its his right to disagree.
[QUOTE=Stents*;46729062]This is what we call moving the goalpost.
Also what part of that definition said that there has to be multiple instances?[/QUOTE]
sorry maybe i didnt emphasise the right word
yes, removing a game because it's offensive is technically censorship, but valve isn't [I]actively[/I] censoring their platform. This is a one-off.
in fact, this has already been shown earlier in the thread and in the video with all the people clamouring about how valve removes this but not postal or gta or cod or whatever.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jordax;46729068]Ever heard of the Streisand Effect?[/QUOTE]
the game would get a helluva lot more publicity if it was published or left on greenlight for a while
It's not censorship, they don't want to sell it in their store.
Censorship is a government or some authority stepping in and saying 'you can't sell this'. That hasn't happened at all, vendors have a right to choose what they want to sell, and if nobody wants to sell hatred then that's hatreds problem.
Nobody can or will stop you buying this game.
[QUOTE=papaya;46729101]sorry maybe i didnt emphasise the right word
yes, removing a game because it's offensive is technically censorship, but valve isn't [I]actively[/I] censoring their platform. This is a one-off.
in fact, this has already been shown earlier in the thread and in the video with all the people clamouring about how valve removes this but not postal or gta or cod or whatever.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
the game would get a helluva lot more publicity if it was published or left on greenlight for a while[/QUOTE]
As you mentioned earlier its part of their policy to remove offensive material, this is just the only instance of something being removed.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;46729121]It's not censorship, they don't want to sell it in their store.
Censorship is a government or some authority stepping in and saying 'you can't sell this'. That hasn't happened at all, vendors have a right to choose what they want to sell, and if nobody wants to sell hatred then that's hatreds problem.
Nobody can or will stop you buying this game.[/QUOTE]
Gonna quote this again
[QUOTE=Wikipedia]Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, [B]media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions[/B][/QUOTE]
By your definition its not censorship when the news bleeps out curses or put blurs on nudity, regardless of those things directly being called censors....
[QUOTE=Stents*;46729133]As you mentioned earlier its part of their policy to remove offensive material, this is just the only instance of something being removed.[/QUOTE]
so you're saying they [i]should[/i] allow offensive material?
[QUOTE=papaya;46729155]so you're saying they [i]should[/i] allow offensive material?[/QUOTE]
Yes, if they want to support openness they have to support it 100%. And openness would mean it should be up to the community on what is visible and sells.
[QUOTE=Xubs;46729200]you're dancing around the issue so fucking much, seriously, stop or actually argue:
there are games on Steam [I]right now[/I] that do the exact same thing. The subject matter is almost identical. What's different with the subject matter of these games to Hatred?
They [I]already[/I] allow tons of fucking offensive material, how is Hatred different?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=papaya;46726950]postal 2 is a parody
postal 1 is a classic and does not glorify violence in any way (it was added a good decade after its initial release)
hatred is a deplorable, disgusting 'game' and valve is 100% in the right to stop it being published on their service.[/QUOTE]
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