We can't get rid of guns in America - General

[QUOTE=mikeyt493;16560291]Then why does America have a massive gun crime count? Because you can buy a gun at your local corner shop. I've not heard one gun crime report on the news ( or at least, very, [I]very[/I] few) here in the UK where guns are illegal. I don't see how making guns illegal would mean more crime. Stop selling guns in every shop you go into and people won't have as many guns to commit crimes with.[/QUOTE] Agreeing with you to a degree. There IS gun crime in England, but it's a fraction of the US. Most unregistered guns (the guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them) IN the UK are old, decrepit and generally shitty relics that haven't been looked after. But it's also a matter of culture, in England we don't really have an obsession with shooting things. I find the need to own a firearm totally alien to me. If someone comes into my house in the middle of the night, of course I'll want to defend myself. But I don't want to kill him! Twat him with a cricket bat or something and call the police. Burglary does not carry the death penalty and I don't want to be judge, jury and executioner.

[QUOTE=Guardian-Angel;16560358]are you dumb or just european. [editline]10:14AM[/editline] yeah instead you hear about chavs and drug dealers beating poor strangers to death with bricks and stabbing them with switchblades (which are illegal)[/QUOTE] You should know which country i'm from...you know, the one that has very good free healthcare and very few guns on the streets. In your country there are constantly fatal shootings. Some of the time it's because someone who has a few loose screws has managed to get hold of a gun and go on a rampage. And because of this, the entire country has it hardwired into them that they need a weapon to defend themselves. OK americans. Answer me this. Why do you need a gun (not want, need).

[QUOTE=Cluckyx;16560420]There IS gun crime in England, but it's a fraction of the US.[/QUOTE] this just in: britain has less people in it than the united states

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560484] OK americans. Answer me this. Why do you need a gun (not want, need).[/QUOTE] Most likely answer is self defense. Then you have the rednecks that hunt for sport and leave a corpse in the woods. :v:

[QUOTE=Guardian-Angel;16560485]this just in: britain has less people in it than the united states[/QUOTE] Its a proportionate fraction. A lot of our serious gun crime is drug related, and there is always some sawn off shotguns floating around. It is very rare for someone to hold up an off license wit a gun...in fact the last hold up i heard about at my local was a guy with a felling axe. And self defense against what...

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560484]You should know which country i'm from...you know, the one that has very good free healthcare and very few guns on the streets. In your country there are constantly fatal shootings. Some of the time it's because someone who has a few loose screws has managed to get hold of a gun and go on a rampage. And because of this, the entire country has it hardwired into them that they need a weapon to defend themselves. OK americans. Answer me this. Why do you need a gun (not want, need).[/QUOTE] if they're constant and fatal, you'll have no trouble linking me to ten instances in the past 14 days. tell me what's wrong about a bunch of smart, responsible people having pistols on their hips. wait, scratch that, a good fifty percent of our populous does not own a gun. also, to defend myself against people who may not be as inclined to follow the law as I am. people who would gladly stab me a couple times if I was in the way of them stealing possessions from my home. OK britons. Answer me this. why do you think violence will go down if we ban guns.

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560218]That's my point. He knows that everyone is armed, but whatever his reason for breaking and entering, he also has a right to defend himself. The thieves have guns because those that they prey on can defend themselves. Plus with the ease of access why wouldn't they be armed. I wish a president would burn that part of the constitution, ban guns for all but hunting and farming uses and be done with it...in the name of peace. Oh and the title should read "we won't get rid of guns in America"[/QUOTE] Why does a criminal need to defend himself? Don't break into someone's house if you don't want to get shot, how complex is it? Your logic is painfully backwards. And the president is sworn in to UPHOLD the constitution completely, not destroy it. [editline]10:40AM[/editline] [QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560484]You should know which country i'm from...you know, the one that has very good free healthcare and very few guns on the streets. In your country there are constantly fatal shootings. Some of the time it's because someone who has a few loose screws has managed to get hold of a gun and go on a rampage. And because of this, the entire country has it hardwired into them that they need a weapon to defend themselves. OK americans. Answer me this. Why do you need a gun (not want, need).[/QUOTE] People go nuts and cause wrecks on the highway killing tons of people too. What's the difference? Why do I need a gun? To protect my civil liberties in the event the government is no longer competent enough to. That's a lot more important that some politician thinking guns are some ugly blemish on society, and being terrified of them because they don't understand them. In all honesty, fuck handguns they aren't really necessary, but proper rifles comparable to current military issue should be in almost every home in America as a statement to the government that they aren't in control.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16560643] Why do I need a gun? To protect my civil liberties in the event the government is no longer competent enough to. That's a lot more important that some politician thinking guns are some ugly blemish on society, and being terrified of them because they don't understand them.[/QUOTE] lol do you seriously think you could fight off the government if it started taking away your civil liberties? Protect your civil liberties the way the founding fathers intended you to: by [b]getting involved with the government[/b], instead of just waving guns at it.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16560643]Why does a criminal need to defend himself? Don't break into someone's house if you don't want to get shot, how complex is it? Your logic is painfully backwards. And the president is sworn in to UPHOLD the constitution completely, not destroy it. [editline]10:40AM[/editline] People go nuts and cause wrecks on the highway killing tons of people too. What's the difference? Why do I need a gun? To protect my civil liberties in the event the government is no longer competent enough to. That's a lot more important that some politician thinking guns are some ugly blemish on society, and being terrified of them because they don't understand them.[/QUOTE] How do you rise up against a government that has loyal forces of their own. You would be cut down where you stood. I'm sorry, but the whole rising up against the government thing is ridiculous. Anyone else for a bad excuse? Incidentally if i catch anyone breaking in they will get a face full of maglite. But that is reasonable force. Shooting them is not.

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;16560703]lol do you seriously think you could fight off the government if it started taking away your civil liberties? Protect your civil liberties the way the founding fathers intended you to: by [b]getting involved with the government[/b], instead of just waving guns at it.[/QUOTE] Because we got our independence from Britain by voting. This isn't a perfect world where words solve everything every time. And there isn't a need to fight off the government if they realize they don't have a chance. Me alone? No. Every gun owner in America, or even half of them? Of course. [editline]10:49AM[/editline] [QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560719]How do you rise up against a government that has loyal forces of their own. You would be cut down where you stood. I'm sorry, but the whole rising up against the government thing is ridiculous. Anyone else for a bad excuse? Incidentally if i catch anyone breaking in they will get a face full of maglite. But that is reasonable force. Shooting them is not.[/QUOTE] 1 person doesn't rise up, tens of thousands do until they're too much of a pain in the ass for the government to continue efforts against them without losing all respect by the rest of the citizens in the country. Shooting an intruder is reasonable, in this country, because it's highly likely they're armed and will end up shooting you if you do not stop them first. Depends on your state's laws, but in my state if someone breaks into your house, they're at your mercy. I've said it once and I'll say it again. If you don't respect the 2nd Amendment, you might as well shit away the rest of your civil liberties too, because you obviously don't give a shit.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16556253]This is totally why America was founded and we definitely don't need guns to protect ourselves from precisely this sort of thing.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you need guns to protect yourself against the government trying to take your guns away.

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560719]How do you rise up against a government that has loyal forces of their own. You would be cut down where you stood. I'm sorry, but the whole rising up against the government thing is ridiculous. Anyone else for a bad excuse? Incidentally if i catch anyone breaking in they will get a face full of maglite. But that is reasonable force. Shooting them is not.[/QUOTE] Army/Air National Guard + gun owners of america > active duty military. It would be a fucking war, the government wouldn't risk it.

[QUOTE=Guardian-Angel;16560780]Army/Air National Guard + gun owners of america > active duty military. It would be a fucking war, the government wouldn't risk it.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't worry too much about active duty military either. This wouldn't be like Kent State or Waco. This would be a nation wide ordeal the military would have no hope of overcoming. In all likely hood, the military would probably refuse to do anything unless it was a fairly small ordeal in 1 small area. If it did actually succeed, we'd become a 3rd world country anyway and the government would effectively commit suicide.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16560731] 1 person doesn't rise up, tens of thousands do until they're too much of a pain in the ass for the government to continue efforts against them without losing all respect by the rest of the citizens in the country. Shooting an intruder is reasonable, in this country, because it's highly likely they're armed and will end up shooting you if you do not stop them first. Depends on your state's laws, but in my state if someone breaks into your house, they're at your mercy. I've said it once and I'll say it again. If you don't respect the 2nd Amendment, you might as well shit away the rest of your civil liberties too, because you obviously don't give a shit.[/QUOTE] Need i say at this point...Veitnam. You would use the same mentality to get the same effects in a different situation. If you knocked out the intruder and removed his weapon, isn't that more reasonable. Even in America theft doesn't carry a death penalty, why would you gladly dish it out?

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560827]Need i say at this point...Veitnam. You would use the same mentality to get the same effects in a different situation. If you knocked out the intruder and removed his weapon, isn't that more reasonable. Even in America theft doesn't carry a death penalty, why would you gladly dish it out?[/QUOTE] Don't forget how horrific other nations would find it if the United States Government was openly firing on it's own citizens.

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16560827]Need i say at this point...Veitnam. You would use the same mentality to get the same effects in a different situation. If you knocked out the intruder and removed his weapon, isn't that more reasonable. Even in America theft doesn't carry a death penalty, why would you gladly dish it out?[/QUOTE] Okay, you try to knock out the person who may be intent on raping and murdering your wife and kids. I'm going to be a responsible person and handle the situation properly, and stay well within the law. If they've broke into your house, it's automatically assumed they're up to a lot more than just stealing things.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16560875]If they've broke into your house, it's automatically assumed they're up to a lot more than just stealing things.[/QUOTE] Hell, their intent may be as bad as looking to murder you personally.

I don't understand this whole argument that keeps coming up: "lol we need guns to defend ourselves aginst teh government". Why don't you trust your government that much? You're the ones who elected them, why would they try to dupe you? It's like all gun owners in the US are afraid of a crazy conspiracy to take your freedom away.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;16560859]Don't forget how horrific other nations would find it if the United States Government was openly firing on it's own citizens.[/QUOTE] For the people to rise up they would have had to have committed an atrocity already. Essentially you would have to end up with a system like prewar Afganistan, where the people were being dragged off and tortured for the slightest thing. Again, in that case they had a well established military that would commit these acts on order from higher up. In a case where the American people have to rise up, they will be pushed down again simply because they took a direct approach. In any case, you needn't worry. If the government goes that far i'm sure England will bail you lot out.

Yes sir the RIGHT to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED so they can go ahead and take my firearms out of my cold dead hands,

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;16557776]Heh...that is exactly the attitude that is killing your country. Some of the american people seem to be fairly down to earth, but people like you just make me laugh at the ignorance. I have said before that when your government are so corrupt that the people have to rise up, they will have an army to defend them. And by this i do not mean the common soldiery that they have now. I mean mercenaries that are in it for the money. You would all be slaughtered in that situation. As for home defense, have you ever considered that a robber would be carrying a gun because you are too?[/QUOTE] Most robbers will not carry a firearm. If caught, they will receive a much greater sentence for carrying a deadly weapon during a crime.

u cant have guns in England but still there is loads of guns in England

[QUOTE=dot_anthem;16555818]I think that if we really wanted to reduce the crime rates we should keep our current gun laws and legalize marijuana. Too much street crime could be prevented if pot dealers weren't terrified of being busted by the 5-0. I think it would be acceptable to believe that a good percentage of gun crime involving gangs, etc is caused because there are a bunch of people stabbing each other in the back over weed.[/QUOTE] But then your high with guns and it's not just weed they fight over.

[QUOTE=Cheezy;16560914]I don't understand this whole argument that keeps coming up: "lol we need guns to defend ourselves aginst teh government". Why don't you trust your government that much? You're the ones who elected them, why would they try to dupe you? It's like all gun owners in the US are afraid of a crazy conspiracy to take your freedom away.[/QUOTE] Why do you attempt to make that sound childish? Are you just that arrogant?

[QUOTE=MrMISCHIEF;16556037]"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"[/QUOTE] Durhh. Because anyone who has a gun would automatically be an outlaw. That's essentially saying something like: "If someone owns a Toyota Camry, they are a Toyota Camry owner."

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16560952]Most robbers will not carry a firearm. If caught, they will receive a much greater sentence for carrying a deadly weapon during a crime.[/QUOTE] Some guy just robbed the local gas station with a gun for $200. He's now in jail for 25 years. Doesn't matter what the price to pay is, people still do it.

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16560952]Most robbers will not carry a firearm. If caught, they will receive a much greater sentence for carrying a deadly weapon during a crime.[/QUOTE] Precisely. Hell, most carry knives or clubs instead. I don't know about you but that's still pretty fuckin' bad.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16560958]Why do you attempt to make that sound childish? Are you just that arrogant?[/QUOTE] It just sounds so damned retarded, I can't believe people are actually using it as an argument. I wasn't trying to be arrogant, sorry.

[QUOTE=Guardian-Angel;16560981]Precisely. Hell, most carry knives or clubs instead. I don't know about you but that's still pretty fuckin' bad.[/QUOTE] Don't bring (insert melee weapon here) to a gun fight.

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16561004]Don't bring (insert melee weapon here) to a gun fight.[/QUOTE] How about a throwing knife.