[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40933622]you might not realize this, but all media affects people perceptions, especially younger people (you know, the main demographic that plays videogames)[/QUOTE]
Then its the parents job to actually educate their children on differentiating on fiction and reality at a young age.
Though what do I know,I was never much of a person that follows trends and is easily influenced by the media so maybe I'm just biased when it comes to how media affects people's perceptions.
[QUOTE=Matrix374;40933715]Then its the parents job to actually educate their children on differentiating on fiction and reality at a young age.
Though what do I know,I was never much of a person that follows trends and is easily influenced by the media so maybe I'm just biased when it comes to how media affects people's perceptions.[/QUOTE]
except the gender roles and perceptions that are perpetuated by modern media have been going for quite some time, so the parents could be just as affected but by the media of their own times. and well, i know everyone likes to think they are the strong minded individual that determines their own perceptions, it is very unlikely that you aren't/haven't been affected by the media around you, it's part of how humans learn
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40931627]yes it is up to the disenfranchised and the minorities to stop being oppressed, not on us, the majority to stop oppressing[/QUOTE]
he's not really saying that though. he's saying regardless of men who do and don't try do get it right, the best solution is more women making video games. i don't know how you can argue with that, it's right. he even said there are exceptions to the rule and some men can write well for women, but men who write good female characters are very few and most of them write men, and rather than more men TRYING to write for women and completely fucking it up because they can't, they should just have more women writing more women roles. if you got anything else out of this video you are missing the point
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40933727]except the gender roles and perceptions that are perpetuated by modern media have been going for quite some time, so the parents could be just as affected but by the media of their own times. and well, i know everyone likes to think they are the strong minded individual that determines their own perceptions, it is very unlikely that you aren't/haven't been affected by the media around you, it's part of how humans learn[/QUOTE]
Oh I have been affected,I'm not saying I'm not but from my viewpoint(solely my viewpoint which can be wrong) it doesn't seem like I'm as affected as most people.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40930890]Holy shit can you get more stereotypical?
This video's premise is ridiculous. Not only does it propose that men inherently suck at writing female characters (because apparently it's impossible for men to relate to women),[/QUOTE]
Men are worse at writing female characters because they can't fully identify with women. He didn't say it's [I]impossible [/I]for men to write a good female character or to relate to women. Stop making shit up.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40930890] but he also equates video games as the "male counterpart" to stuff like women's magazines (even though we have men's magazines too?).[/QUOTE]
You missed his point. He wasn't talking about all magazines, he was talking about magazines for women. Videogames are targeted at men because vast majority of gamers are men (I don't know if you play much but the 40% you keep throwing around is asinine... unless we take angry birds and farmville into account.) So criticizing men for creating too male oriented games is like criticizing women for making the cosmopolitan too female oriented. Women in games don't have to be well written for a game to work when the character you're playing is a male and the entire story is male oriented. This might be changing lately, people expect more. It's a good thing.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40930890]The "Shut up and fix the problem yourself" argument is also incredibly asinine. Women can't just start making video games to "fix" the way they're portrayed because said shitty portrayal alienates women from the gaming industry/community, making them turn away from such career options.
Before we can start doing that people need to know there's a problem in the first place, and making noise and creating discussion is a good way to do that.
That said, I completely agree with the last part, we do need more women working in the videogame industry, but in order to have that happen, we need to [B]encourage[/B] them to do so, and right now the industry has been doing a shit job at it.[/QUOTE]
Nothing to disagree with in what you said here but you don't understand one thing. Vast majority of players who play games with actual story are male. If you want more female oriented stories or gender-neutral stories you need more female gamers. Supply and demand.
That said discouraging women from making or playing games is bad and I agree there's too much of it.
[QUOTE=Shortyish;40930781][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpJGkG1g-Lk[/media][/QUOTE]
holy fucking shit
basically my thoughts on this entire debate, just way less scattered
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;40933972]holy fucking shit
basically my thoughts on this entire debate, just way less scattered[/QUOTE]
if you are having the same thoughts as maddox, get help.
It seems that the video games lead or written by women are more original or have a better story in general. In fact, Maddox just mentioned three of my favorite games there; Portal, Uncharted 2 and Journey. They all feature generally less violence than the industry standard, which I really like.
That was appalling i can't believe how many people approve of his view
He seems really locked onto the idea that gender role stereotypes are true of all people and that men and women are predisposed to have drastically different interests
but that's bullshit, and when you consider that the spine of his argument is gone
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;40934161]That was appalling i can't believe how many people approve of his view
He seems really locked onto the idea that gender role stereotypes are true of all people and that men and women are predisposed to have drastically different interests
but that's bullshit, and when you consider that the spine of his argument is gone[/QUOTE]
How exactly is it bullshit?
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;40931715]You don't know much about the guy do you...
The whole Maddox persona is facetious.[/QUOTE]
he's a self-admitted troll, i'm surprised people still send that guy shitloads of hate mail.
[QUOTE=Hayburner;40934336]he's a self-admitted troll, i'm surprised people still send that guy shitloads of hate mail.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call him a troll. He has a very Dutch style of humor, which is generally rude and absurd. The idea is to make people laugh by doing something ridiculous, but at the same time it makes people think.
[video=youtube;dDtisgnSZCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDtisgnSZCc[/video]
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40930890]Holy shit can you get more stereotypical?
This video's premise is ridiculous. Not only does it propose that men inherently suck at writing female characters (because apparently it's impossible for men to relate to women), but he also equates video games as the "male counterpart" to stuff like women's magazines (even though we have men's magazines too?). The "Shut up and fix the problem yourself" argument is also incredibly asinine. Women can't just start making video games to "fix" the way they're portrayed because said shitty portrayal alienates women from the gaming industry/community, making them turn away from such career options.
Before we can start doing that people need to know there's a problem in the first place, and making noise and creating discussion is a good way to do that.
That said, I completely agree with the last part, we do need more women working in the videogame industry, but in order to have that happen, we need to [B]encourage[/B] them to do so, and right now the industry has been doing a shit job at it.[/QUOTE]
woosh!
this thread is gold
I honestly don't get how this is a problem.
This is a direct result of 'target marketing'.
I think Maddox put it well 'If you want to make change, go make it yourself'
I mean, you have to understand, this is a business model, they have to make money, and if that means adding a kinky female character to the game, so be it.
Last but not least, of all the problems in the world that need solving, this is what you focus all your energy into?
Honestly, there is so much more good you could be doing if you just focused. I wouldn't have this attitude if most of you actually worried about the oppressed women in the middle east, but you seem to be more focused on 'how females are depicted in video games' in Western countries.
Why not put that focus into actually making a difference for women in countries where they are oppressed one thousandfold as to what you believe is happening in Western nations.
i usually find maddox funny and i still find this video kinda funny but his argument is flawed from the outset because all of his facts are flat-out wrong
"video games are made by men for men"
- the current demographic for video games is around 60% female
"women's magazines are made by women for women"
- not strictly true. half of the time they're made by men for women
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40933913]Men are worse at writing female characters because they can't fully identify with women. He didn't say it's [I]impossible [/I]for men to write a good female character or to relate to women. Stop making shit up.
You missed his point. He wasn't talking about all magazines, he was talking about magazines for women. Videogames are targeted at men because vast majority of gamers are men (I don't know if you play much but the 40% you keep throwing around is asinine... unless we take angry birds and farmville into account.) So criticizing men for creating too male oriented games is like criticizing women for making the cosmopolitan too female oriented. Women in games don't have to be well written for a game to work when the character you're playing is a male and the entire story is male oriented. This might be changing lately, people expect more. It's a good thing.
Nothing to disagree with in what you said here but you don't understand one thing. Vast majority of players who play games with actual story are male. If you want more female oriented stories or gender-neutral stories you need more female gamers. Supply and demand.
That said discouraging women from making or playing games is bad and I agree there's too much of it.[/QUOTE]
1. "making shit up" that's ridiculous to assume a female could writer a female character better than a male by nature regardless of situation. That is completely subjective. however, writing is not the only thing that keeps women away from certain games, etc, it is much larger than just the character writing.
2. YOU are missing the point that there are not enough female game designers to facilitate said change, that's why there are so many games targeted towards men! It's a problem with the industry. THAT is why we need to encourage girls to make and play games, because there are not enough to continue encouraging this growth.
3. he does understand that, and once again look at point two. To "get" more female gamers we need games designed by females for females.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;40933746]he's saying regardless of men who do and don't try do get it right, the best solution is more women making video games. i don't know how you can argue with that, it's right[/QUOTE]
it's a pretty big thing to expect tho
"stop talking about making video games better and just START making video games better. today!"
um well someone has to talk about it to initiate the very gradual and long-term change
Hey look more gender debate.
[QUOTE=moop900;40936343]Hey look more gender debate.[/QUOTE]
it's almost like there's actually an issue to talk about! mad!
What bothers me most is that why is sex appeal considered as a taboo? Why is it so wrong to have it in games and movies etc? There's nothing wrong with big ol' titties
[QUOTE=Tarmac;40936697]What bothers me most is that why is sex appeal such a taboo?[/QUOTE]
Sex appeal really isn't a taboo, it's fine to have it. But if you've noticed, it's become more like "fanservice" than sex appeal in games nowadays. Overly exaggerated proportions and the like.
And I like tits as much as the next guy, but the extreme "everyone has the same massive tits" trend has gotten a little stale.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40931680]
also you guys should know you're defending a huge mysoginyst who literally thinks straight people are discriminated against
[url]http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=gay[/url][/QUOTE]
Because there's no better way to boost your credibility by posting a blindly obvious piece of satire that actually has pro-gay undertones.
men are women are different, have different emotional/sexual/physical needs and traits. It's not black-and-white but there are fundemental differences.
Trying to force everyone to the same standards of thinking is how long arguments like this start in the first place. Men are women are different, we get it, but just because men get boners for boobs and violence doesn't make it "wrong". All this feminism shit is just saying "the stuff men like is bad and wrong and you should feel bad for being a man"
So sick of it
[QUOTE=Glitchman;40936895]men are women are different, have different emotional/sexual/physical needs and traits. It's not black-and-white but there are fundemental differences.
Trying to force everyone to the same standards of thinking is how long arguments like this start in the first place. Men are women are different, we get it, but just because men get boners for boobs and violence doesn't make it "wrong". All this feminism shit is just saying "the stuff men like is bad and wrong and you should feel bad for being a man"
So sick of it[/QUOTE]
...Maybe? I don't think we know enough about it. How much of this stuff is societal and not an actual physical difference?
[QUOTE=Glitchman;40936895]men are women are different, have different emotional/sexual/physical needs and traits. It's not black-and-white but there are fundemental differences.
Trying to force everyone to the same standards of thinking is how long arguments like this start in the first place. Men are women are different, we get it, but just because men get boners for boobs and violence doesn't make it "wrong". All this feminism shit is just saying "the stuff men like is bad and wrong and you should feel bad for being a man"
So sick of it[/QUOTE]
why don't women just let me treat them like realdolls? I'm so sick of feminism
[QUOTE=Protocol7;40936908]...Maybe? I don't think we know enough about it. How much of this stuff is societal and not an actual physical difference?[/QUOTE]
Although society has an amazing effect on how we think and act (like deodorant or shaving of the legs), these trends wouldn't stick if they didn't appeal to our wants. It's pretty much scientifically proven that men are attracted to youthful women, with a small waist and bigger breasts. It's instinct to find a suitable mate, ect. Women are attracted to taller muscular men, and also are looking for one suitable mate, rather than multiple mates like men to bear the most children.
[editline]7th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dori;40936933]why don't women just let me treat them like realdolls? I'm so sick of feminism[/QUOTE]
realdolls? don't know what this means exactly, but I respect women just as much as my male friends, but I least I can tell they are different from me, like to do different things, and act different in certain situations.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;40936952]Although society has an amazing effect on how we think and act (like deodorant or shaving of the legs), these trends wouldn't stick if they didn't appeal to our wants. It's pretty much scientifically proven that men are attracted to youthful women, with a small waist and bigger breasts. It's instinct to find a suitable mate, ect. Women are attracted to taller muscular men, and also are looking for one suitable mate, rather than multiple mates like men to bear the most children.[/QUOTE]
OK but media is a reflection of our society not innate gender physiology
[QUOTE=Glitchman;40936952]Although society has an amazing effect on how we think and act (like deodorant or shaving of the legs), these trends wouldn't stick if they didn't appeal to our wants. It's pretty much scientifically proven that men are attracted to youthful women, with a small waist and bigger breasts. It's instinct to find a suitable mate, ect. Women are attracted to taller muscular men, and also are looking for one suitable mate, rather than multiple mates like men to bear the most children.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/smilies/2/0/biotruths.001.gif[/img]
heterosexuality is not the One True Sexuality as much as you desperately want to think it is for the sake of your bullshit pseudoscience
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