Jared Taylor on Black Lives Matter - General

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49763106]When they interrupted Bernie Sanders and O Malley they boo'ed them for going into detail about their plans to deal with racism, poverty and police brutality instead of parroting "black lives matter" back at them. This movement is a plague that harms the very issue they care about.[/QUOTE] the protest was meant to express dissatisfaction with any politician's stance and actions on race Martin has an awful reputation (just watch The Wire from season 3) and Bernie puts way too much emphasis on class, which is not a panacea to all social problems (look at how socialist paradises all over europe are dealing with immigrants)

[QUOTE=person11;49763203]it's very obvious that nearly everyone reads into it as much as he does it elicited immediate boos from Martin O'Malley when he said it, my activist friends can't keep themselves from immediately reacting to hearing it: it's not a matter of reading into it so much as hearing it as a hostile statement[/QUOTE] Police brutality affects everybody though. Hispanics, Asians, Whites, etc. Also, [QUOTE=ImpSnob;49763088]Context. Context. Context.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. Even if you say that as part of your combatting police brutality or anti-racism plan you get boo'ed and called a racist. [QUOTE] [url]http://www.ijreview.com/2014/12/214170-99azy-see-students-react-college-president-says-lives-matter/[/url] [IMG]http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/All-Lives-Matter.jpg[/IMG] The president of Smith College was forced to apologize after she sent out a campus wide email saying “all lives matter” instead of the rally cry of Ferguson protesters—“black lives matter.” In the original email, obtained by Campus Reform, Kathleen McCartney used “all lives matter” in the email detailing the “struggle” and “hurt” the Smith community was experiencing following the non-indictment of Officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. Students took to social media to chastise McCartney, blaming her skin color for her lack of understanding.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49763205]Really? So if I say all lives matter, that [I]necessitates[/I] that I'm implying "i dont care about your movement which is very clearly anti-racist"? There's no way I can say it without implying that?[/QUOTE] its obviously a matter of opinion, but mine (and any BLM activist) is that the phrase was conceived to weaken the motto of an important civil rights movement ('stop thinking about just black people'), and even when said innocently, causes harm

Someone who shuts down the conversation because their opponents aren't willing to use their language obviously doesn't care much about starting a real discussion. BLM doesn't want a back and forth. They want to talk and be obeyed.

[QUOTE=person11;49763246]its obviously a matter of opinion, but mine (and any BLM activist) is that the phrase was conceived to weaken the motto of an important civil rights movement ('stop thinking about just black people'), and even when said innocently, causes harm[/QUOTE] As an outsider, that sounds like an entirely unfounded paranoid conspiracy theory. [editline]18th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;49763248]Someone who shuts down the conversation because their opponents aren't willing to use their language obviously doesn't care much about starting a real discussion. BLM doesn't want a back and forth. They want to talk and be listened to.[/QUOTE] this, honestly People speak differently. If you're going to assume ill intent on the part of anyone who doesn't speak and think exactly as you do, then good luck getting anything done.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49763234]Police brutality affects everybody though. Hispanics, Asians, Whites, etc. Also, No it doesn't. Even if you say that as part of your combatting police brutality or anti-racism plan you get boo'ed and called a racist.[/QUOTE] Being white does mean you have a lack of understanding about issues affecting black people. Yes, police brutality affects everyone but it affects black people at a way higher rate. That woman's tweet is right, it isn't about everyone, it's about issues facing the black community. That still means equality. You don't go to a gay rights parade and ask why aren't they discussing wealth inequality.

[QUOTE=ImpSnob;49763269]That woman's tweet is right, it isn't about everyone, it's about issues facing the black community. That still means equality. You don't go to a gay rights parade and ask why aren't they discussing wealth inequality.[/QUOTE] That's a terrible example. A more accurate one would be going to a black gay rights parade and asking why they aren't discussion all gay rights.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49763234]Police brutality affects everybody though. Hispanics, Asians, Whites, etc. Also, No it doesn't. Even if you say that as part of your combatting police brutality or anti-racism plan you get boo'ed and called a racist.[/QUOTE] police brutality is certainly not an issue that only affects black people, it's also a big problem back where im from in Los Angeles for hispanic people, but there are different degrees of police brutality both in number of incidents and the kinds of brutality that happen, and it affects black people the absolute worst we act in our society as though those black lives disporportionately lost/affected to police brutality (and to shitty schools, crumbling neighborhoods, hiring and workplace racism, etc.) dont matter, these protesters want to scream as loud something they consider to be a very radical idea: that black lives do in fact matter when someone comes up to them and tell them 'oh honey, youre wrong, ALL lives matter', it's essentially an insult to the centuries long struggle black people have faced for real equality sophia buchanan is totally right in this case

[QUOTE=person11;49763283]when someone comes up to them and tell them 'oh honey, youre wrong, ALL lives matter', it's essentially an insult to the centuries long struggle black people have faced for real equality sophia buchanan is totally right in this case[/QUOTE] you are attaching the phrase "oh honey, youre wrong" it isn't actually being said you cannot actually prove that it's being implied Any phrase said by anyone can be twisted to mean anything if you just arbitrarily attach some hidden "subtext" to it. And the best part is, no one can ever prove you wrong. It's an unfalsifiable premise.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49763281]That's a terrible example. A more accurate one would be going to a black gay rights parade and asking why they aren't discussion all gay rights.[/QUOTE] that's a good example a great way to tease out why 'all lives matter' is so shitty is to find tons of examples like this white gay guys are a million times better off than anyone else who is LGBT. their biggest concerns were getting married (a totally valid thing to want, dont get me wrong) while transgender people of color are being killed in this country in greater numbers every year. It would be awful to be like "all gay rights matter" at a black LGBT event. the feminist circles online that I hang out at are punctuated by various fights between black and PoC feminists and older white feminists who say "all women's rights", etc its offensive in all these cases because it betrays ignorance of the differing situations people are in and how important it is for those singular groups to have a voice.

[QUOTE=ImpSnob;49762952]All Lives Matter is bullshit though, not nearly as much white people are being killed by police. Barely, if any white people are discriminated against for their race.[/QUOTE] Your first claim is easily explained: white civilians aren't usually big players in a conflict between a community and its police force because they're less likely to live in such a community. The driving force behind such a conflict is certainly influenced by race relations but what matters more in a specific life or death situation is how "foreign" the cop is perceived to be. Your second claim is SJW nonsense.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49763296]you are attaching the phrase "oh honey, youre wrong" it isn't actually being said you cannot actually prove that it's being implied[/QUOTE] think about the point of view of someone trying to give black peoples concern's a voice on the national stage: to have a phrase that swallows their struggles into the supposed struggles of everyone is to have one's movement be rebuked

[QUOTE=person11;49763308]think about the point of view of someone trying to give black peoples concern's a voice on the national stage: to have a phrase that swallows their struggles into the supposed struggles of everyone is to have one's movement be rebuked[/QUOTE] Again, you are just layering assumptions atop assumptions here. Not everyone sees language in the same way you do, and there is no reason that everyone [I]should[/I] see language in the same way you do. The same logic you are using to demonize the phrase "all lives matter" could be applied to demonize "black lives matter". The exact same assumptions that you make to portray one as racist could just as easily be used to portray the other as racist.

This kind of "you're either with us or against us" tribalist bullshit is the exact kind of thing I'm talking about. It's what's pushing people to the far right. You can't command people to think as you do. People like having that whole individuality thing, and speaking in their own words and having their own ideas.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49763319]Again, you are just layering assumptions atop assumptions here. Not everyone sees language in the same way you do, and there is no reason that everyone [I]should[/I] see language in the same way you do. The same logic you are using to demonize the phrase "all lives matter" could be applied to demonize "black lives matter". The exact same assumptions that you make to portray one as racist could just as easily be used to portray the other as racist.[/QUOTE] ah yes, as a white person who has never faced racism and never will, i am super offended when a black person says their life matters. them saying that really harms me somehow i cant even continue with the sarcasm because the notion is so absurd. i dont feel excluded when black people try to assert that they deserve to live, society has already confirmed that i deserve to and i never need to fight for it

[QUOTE=person11;49763360]ah yes, as a white person who has never faced racism and never will[/QUOTE] wat, I'm a white person and have experienced racism.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49763344]This kind of "you're either with us or against us" tribalist bullshit is the exact kind of thing I'm talking about. It's what's pushing people to the far right. You can't command people to think as you do. People like having that whole individuality thing, and speaking in their own words and having their own ideas.[/QUOTE] saying that 'all lives matter' misses the point of 'black lives matter' is not tribalist, its just pointing out that the first phrase disarms the second in the context of the movement and the fact that black lives dont matter in this country this does not mean that the phrase "all lives matter" is factually wrong. it is indeed a factual statement

[QUOTE=person11;49763360]ah yes, as a white person who has never faced racism and never will, i am super offended when a black person says their life matters. them saying that really harms me somehow i cant even continue with the sarcasm because the notion is so absurd. i dont feel excluded when black people try to assert that they deserve to live, society has already confirmed that i deserve to and i never need to fight for it[/QUOTE] that isn't my point my point is that the reasoning you use to justify your interpretation of the phrase is fallacious that aside though I'm p sure you could find a place where you'd be discriminated against if you tried, regardless of your ethnicity [editline]18th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=person11;49763381]saying that 'all lives matter' misses the point of 'black lives matter' is not tribalist, its just pointing out that the first phrase disarms the second in the context of the movement and the fact that black lives dont matter in this country this does not mean that the phrase "all lives matter" is factually wrong. it is indeed a factual statement[/QUOTE] you're saying that the phrase "all lives matter" implies that whoever is saying it is trying to dismantle the BLM movement and call black people whiny babies because you wouldn't personally use it to express your position that sounds pretty tribalistic to me

[QUOTE=Xubs;49763377]This is exactly what he's talking about, dude. All he's arguing is that calling people racists for implied things that may have not actually been intended to be communicated is pushing people to the far right. You just went ahead and did exactly what he's talking about. It's this sort of rhetoric that is going to bring the far right back. Not people saying "all lives matter" but the people yelling at those people calling them racist. The more you do it, the more you convince them that they should be against you in all ways. I don't know how you are not reading able to read into that but he's been communicating it this entire time.[/QUOTE] i kind of jumped in halfway through the conversation by accident because i wanted to refute something i saw that someone posted that happened to be wrong i never meant to be part of the argument that saying All Lives Matter had to mean racism (it could, but it depends on who is saying it and why). the statement itself is problematic and sends the wrong message and (i have no idea, truth be told) may have been invented as a counter to this new civil rights movement saying it doesnt make you racist, it just means you said a statement that is factually true but is not only utterly useless to anyone but anti-BLM people, but also problematic to those who are fighting for recognition as human beings

[QUOTE=ImpSnob;49762183]Black Lives Matter is a great movement, what do you not like about it?[/QUOTE] From what I've seen, most people here have issues with the harassment and violence caused by a certain section of BLM. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to hate an entire cause because of the people involved, so long as the cause is just. Though, issues are issues and issues have to be addressed and dealt with, in my opinion.

[QUOTE=person11;49763416]saying it doesnt make you racist, it just means you said a statement that is factually true but is not only utterly useless to anyone but anti-BLM people, but also problematic to those who are fighting for recognition as human beings[/QUOTE] It's also useful to people actually wanting to discuss the mistreatment of others. Just imagine if the protestors had pushed the phrase "all lives matter" from the very beginning. In my opinion, it would have been so much stronger. It's a phrase everyone can get behind without an hour of contextual explanation. [editline]17th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Blazedol;49763428]From what I've seen, most people here have issues with the harassment and violence caused by a certain section of BLM. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to hate an entire cause because of the people involved, so long as the cause is just. Though, issues are issues and issues have to be addressed and dealt with, in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Vague causes are inseparable from the people who espouse them. It's not like a religion with a set book that everyone can go back to.

[QUOTE=person11;49763416]i kind of jumped in halfway through the conversation by accident because i wanted to refute something i saw that someone posted that happened to be wrong i never meant to be part of the argument that saying All Lives Matter had to mean racism (it could, but it depends on who is saying it and why). the statement itself is problematic and sends the wrong message and (i have no idea, truth be told) may have been invented as a counter to this new civil rights movement saying it doesnt make you racist, it just means you said a statement that is factually true but is not only utterly useless to anyone but anti-BLM people, but also problematic to those who are fighting for recognition as human beings[/QUOTE] It isn't problematic though it's only problematic if you think everyone either must or only can interpret words and language exactly as you do This attitude is the problem, not BLM. This attitude is going to alienate people from the left. It's what scares me, and makes scum like Jared Taylor so giddy with joy.

[QUOTE=person11;49763360]ah yes, as a white person who has never faced racism and never will,[/QUOTE] pretending racism against whites doesn't exist is viciously stupid, no matter how 'uncommon it is'

[QUOTE=J!NX;49763462]pretending racism against whites doesn't exist is viciously stupid, no matter how 'uncommon it is'[/QUOTE] I'm assuming he's working under the "power + privilege" definition. You know, the one most people don't and never will.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49763429]Vague causes are inseparable from the people who espouse them. It's not like a religion with a set book that everyone can go back to.[/QUOTE] You have a point, but it's still not black and white. If you only take into consideration the hateful people and what they believe in, of course the cause is going to seem terrible. That's why you [I]must[/I] look at stuff like this from every angle and every side.

[QUOTE=Geos88;49762300]Wait a minute, I remember this guy. He came to my school when invited by the "White Student Union". Long ass video [video=youtube;jGyfmhFobdM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGyfmhFobdM[/video][/QUOTE] I just want to let you know as a Student of Towson, there is no longer a WSU

[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;49763498]I just want to let you know as a Student of Towson, there is no longer a WSU[/QUOTE] I think I speak for us all when I say good riddance

[QUOTE=J!NX;49763462]pretending racism against whites doesn't exist is viciously stupid, no matter how 'uncommon it is'[/QUOTE] Hell, BLM downplays the racism faced by Hispanics. Sheriff Arpaio, etc and the fact that police brutality affects everybody.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49763523]Hell, BLM downplays the racism faced by Hispanics. Sheriff Arpaio, etc and the fact that police brutality affects everybody.[/QUOTE] Their website seems to ignore that black people don't have it as bad as they used to, and that blacks aren't the only one dealing with it not to say it isn't serious of course. The amount of racism blacks deal with is dangerously fucked up, they aren't wrong in being interested in standing up for African/etc people, but it's not what it used to be when they faced massive government oppression in many, many forms. They still deal with racism worse than whites, that being said. BLM could be something really good but focusing only on one group is kind of shitty

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49763552]focusing on one group is how you get shit done, police brutality reform would positively affect everyone anyway[/QUOTE] I guess that is true at least. But what happens when someone else needs their help?