Lenient gun control leads to greater homicide rates.
400 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38404586]And I also love how you're bringing religion into this, a completely off-topic, irrelevant and honestly pointless argument in this discussion.[/QUOTE]
Not many other old documents that people follow nowadays
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38404612]Are you even American? It is our right to do both, the constitution explicitly says we have the right to both.[/QUOTE]
He's an Englishman, if you couldn't tell.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;38404605]Who are you do decide what is abhorrent and what isnt?[/QUOTE]
Well most other states don't have the privilege to bear arms in their constitution, but many have the right to free speech.
Free speech is superior to the privilege to firearm ownership.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38404608]Uhhh yeah because the gun rights people worship the Constitution in the same way Christians worship the Bible.
They don't question it, and it's completely without flaw for the rest of time.[/QUOTE]
One is the foundation of a government and the other is a religious scripture, they're hardly comparable just because they're old.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38404608]Uhhh yeah because the gun rights people worship the Constitution in the same way Christians worship the Bible.
They don't question it, and it's completely without flaw for the rest of time.[/QUOTE]
Some christians =/= all christians.
Maybe make a different thread for this sort of discussion?
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38404565]See creationists
Just because something was written a really long time ago doesn't make it right. You're going to need to do better than that.[/QUOTE]
Except creationists are actually fucking stupid who deny facts when provided directly to their face. There's a lot of that happening in this thread, too, and don't you say "well how do you know that supporting gun rights isn't crazy?"
[B]GUNS ARE ONLY A WAY TO KILL OTHERS.[/B] Furthermore, most gun related deaths are either suicide or premeditated, both of which are cause of [B]underlying social issues.[/B]
I've said it before in other gun control topics. Yes, you're all right, cracking down on guns will, in fact, get rid of gun related homicides. But you know what's better than reducing gun related homicides? Reducing the rates of all homicides! Motor vehicle, blunt force trauma, knife violence.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404619]Well most other states don't have the privilege to bear arms in their constitution, but many have the right to free speech.
Free speech is superior to the privilege to firearm ownership.[/QUOTE]
Indeed it is, hence why it's the first amendment and why firearms is the second.
I don't know what this has to do with anything.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404596]Yes but its awful how you can actually compare the right to free speech to the[B] privilege[/B] of gun ownership.
I mean, that's just abhorrent.[/QUOTE]
[quote] A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the [B]right of the people[/B] to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404596]Yes but its awful how you can actually compare the right to free speech to the privilege of gun ownership.
I mean, that's just abhorrent.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ecuox.jpg[/IMG]
Wow, check it out. They're right next to each other on that document. I'd say that means one has just as much right to exist as the other.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;38404634]It's hard to argue with the civilian populace if the civilian populace has more guns than the government does. I'm not saying "OH NO DE GUBMENT OUT TO GET US" i'm just saying maybe there was, and still is, a practical reason for gun ownership.[/QUOTE]
Tunisia overthrew their government despite having the lowest number of guns per capita.
[editline]11th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;38404637][IMG]http://www.lilesnet.com/family/grandparents/bill_of_rights_page.jpg[/IMG]
Wow, check it out. They're right next to each other on that document. I'd say that means one has just as much right to exist as the other.[/QUOTE]
No I mean it's abhorrent how you can compare the privilege to own a gun to the right to free speech. The privilege to own a gun is way way way down the list from free speech.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404642]Tunisia overthrew their government despite having the lowest number of guns per capita.[/QUOTE]
Tunisia is also not America, or even close to it.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404642]Tunisia overthrew their government despite having the lowest number of guns per capita.[/QUOTE]
Good for them, let me know when Tunisia spends 600 billion a year on their military and has over 300 million citizens.
What I'm saying is that the gun rights people say gun ownership is a right because it's written in the Constitution in the same way creationists say god created the universe because it's written in the Bible.
Yes, one is law, the other is scripture. I get that.
Laws can be changed though. Not all laws are good ones, etc.
We shouldn't just accept the constitution as flawless uncritically.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404642]
No I mean it's abhorrent how you can compare the privilege to own a gun to the right to free speech. The privilege to own a gun is way way way down the list from free speech.[/QUOTE]
It's 1 more down on the list, actually.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404642]Tunisia overthrew their government despite having the lowest number of guns per capita.[/QUOTE]
Libya, meanwhile, is getting it's ass kicked doing the same thing.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404642]
No I mean it's abhorrent how you can compare the privilege to own a gun to the right to free speech. The privilege to own a gun is way way way down the list from free speech.[/QUOTE]
Man, 1 number sure is a leap.
As far as I can thing, bringing the constituion as support for gun rights is kind of skewing it away from the heart of the debate, since the only reason we consider the constitution valid is because of the positive results it brings to us, and this argument is about if there are positive results to gun control.
That, and the right to own a gun is not necessarily a right outside of america. (Bringing american law to the scope of the globe does not compute)
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404642]No I mean it's abhorrent how you can compare the privilege to own a gun to the right to free speech. The privilege to own a gun is way way way down the list from free speech.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's immediately down the list from free speech. Check it out.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38404658]What I'm saying is that the gun rights people say gun ownership is a right because it's written in the Constitution in the same way creationists say god created the universe because it's written in the Bible.
Yes, one is law, the other is scripture. I get that.
Laws can be changed though. Not all laws are good ones, etc.
We shouldn't just accept the constitution as flawless uncritically.[/QUOTE]
So then explain what's flawed in the Constitution that's relevant to this thread? The right to own a firearm? Is it perchance flawed because you don't agree with it?
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38404658]What I'm saying is that the gun rights people say gun ownership is a right because it's written in the Constitution in the same way creationists say god created the universe because it's written in the Bible.
Yes, one is law, the other is scripture. I get that.
Laws can be changed though. Not all laws are good ones, etc.
We shouldn't just accept the constitution as flawless uncritically.[/QUOTE]
Just because it's old doesn't make it irrelevant or flawless. 2nd amendment says that I can own a firearm, and I don't see why that should change.
[QUOTE=Ridge;38404676]Actually, it's immediately down the list from free speech. Check it out.[/QUOTE]
You are misunderstanding me.
It shouldn't be on the list at all.
If the constitution said incest or child pornography was a fundamental right there would be nutjobs like the guns rights people out there to defend it.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404684]You are misunderstanding me.
It shouldn't be on the list at all.[/QUOTE]
wrong.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404684]You are misunderstanding me.
It shouldn't be on the list at all.[/QUOTE]
Alright, you know what? We're done. You've done nothing but run in circles, this thread is completely de-railed.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38404686]If the constitution said incent was a fundamental right there would be nutjobs like the guns rights people out there to defend it.[/QUOTE]
what on earth is an "incent"?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404684]You are misunderstanding me.
It shouldn't be on the list at all.[/QUOTE]
Well, it is. Perhaps if you'd compile a compelling case for its removal, we can talk then.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38404686]If the constitution said incent was a fundamental right there would be nutjobs like the guns rights people out there to defend it.[/QUOTE]
Wow, nice job pulling that one. Were you on the debate team for Yourass university?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404684]You are misunderstanding me.
It shouldn't be on the list at all.[/QUOTE]
And for what reasons? We've provided you with facts and statistics that say otherwise, and you haven't brought up any evidence to counter our claims.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404684]You are misunderstanding me.
It shouldn't be on the list at all.[/QUOTE]
That is your opinion. It is my opinion that there should be an amendment guaranteeing every American a plate of bacon waiting for them in the morning.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38404694]wrong.[/QUOTE]
Well there is no good argument for retaining it.
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