Whenever anyone asks me why I feel I need a gun I simply answer this: "You lock your car whenever you leave it, right? You lock up your home at night, and when you go away, correct?"
It's all about being prepared. I choose to have the means to protect myself and my family. I pray I never have to use my weapon in defense but if a situation presents itself, I know I can have a fighting chance rather than just being another statistic.
Guns are like condoms.
You would rather have one, and not need it, than need it and not have one.
Thank you AvP.
It's an irrelevance to me, I don't need one in the UK, and although I can get one, its a pain in the rear.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16137828]have any of you guys bitching about gun rights ever actually got involved in a situation where you had to face down a robber or whatever
don't be so insecure[/QUOTE]
So taking any preventative safety measures is being insecure?
You have guns too you know, so stop bringing up this bullshit.
Guns are a promised constitutional right. Anyone arguing against them is arguing against civil liberties.
[editline]05:34PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Darkhorse01;16139031]
It's an irrelevance to me, I don't need one in the UK, and although I can get one, its a pain in the rear.[/QUOTE]
Hearing from friends overseas, I'd feel more like I needed a gun there than I do here.
It's honestly not even close to necessary for safety here. The only violent crime in my area in the past 15 years was someone getting shot in the shoulder. The local police department has been around since 1843 and has NEVER had a death in the line of duty besides an officer dying of a heart attack in 1953.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16143216]So taking any preventative safety measures is being insecure?
You have guns too you know, so stop bringing up this bullshit.
Guns are a promised constitutional right. Anyone arguing against them is arguing against civil liberties.
[editline]05:34PM[/editline]
Hearing from friends overseas, I'd feel more like I needed a gun there than I do here.
It's honestly not even close to necessary for safety here. The only violent crime in my area in the past 15 years was someone getting shot in the shoulder. The local police department has been around since 1843 and has NEVER had a death in the line of duty besides an officer dying of a heart attack in 1953.[/QUOTE]
yo I have guns but I don't pass the time thinking up new ways I can kill people when they (never will) break into my house
better not go outside if you don't have a gun. put guns above every door frame for maximum protection. carry a second gun on your ankle for redundancy. keep your hand on your gun at all times so you can go loud on tangos in the shopping mall. brown people might break into your house in the middle of the night to correspond with taliban sleeper agents while they steal your TV
Sometimes you guys take the sport too far, it's like carrying a football in the trunk/a deflated one in your pocket at all times in case you spot some home boys who might want to play ball. Gun owners are always painted as paranoid anti-social nutbags by the media and apparently it's a self-perpetuating stereotype.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16146723]yo I have guns but I don't pass the time thinking up new ways I can kill people when they (never will) break into my house
better not go outside if you don't have a gun. put guns above every door frame for maximum protection. carry a second gun on your ankle for redundancy. keep your hand on your gun at all times so you can go loud on tangos in the shopping mall. brown people might break into your house in the middle of the night to correspond with taliban sleeper agents while they steal your TV
Sometimes you guys take the sport too far, it's like carrying a football in the trunk/a deflated one in your pocket at all times in case you spot some home boys who might want to play ball. Gun owners are always painted as paranoid anti-social nutbags by the media and apparently it's a self-perpetuating stereotype.[/QUOTE]
Instead of admitting fault, twist the opponents position to seem crazier then it really is, then debunk that.
[QUOTE=Darkhorse01;16139031]Guns are like condoms.
You would rather have one, and not need it, than need it and not have one.
Thank you AvP.
It's an irrelevance to me, I don't need one in the UK, and although I can get one, its a pain in the rear.[/QUOTE]
You could say that about cake too...
[QUOTE=Oecleus;16147076]Instead of admitting fault, twist the opponents position to seem crazier then it really is, then debunk that.[/QUOTE]
cool but I already know what a strawman is and I don't give a FUCK :smug:
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16147237]cool but I already know what a strawman is and I don't give a FUCK :smug:[/QUOTE]
Oh, so you are fine with your post not defending your point and making you look like an ass to the rest of the forum?
[QUOTE=Oecleus;16147268]Oh, so you are fine with your post not defending your point and making you look like an ass to the rest of the forum?[/QUOTE]
who gives a fuck
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16147311]who gives a fuck[/QUOTE]
Well you, really. I think you tried to defend your point, then realized you fucked up, then posted pretending you don't care. Wouldn't be the first time someone has done it.
[QUOTE=Oecleus;16147344]Well you, really. I think you tried to defend your point, then realized you fucked up, then posted pretending you don't care. Wouldn't be the first time someone has done it.[/QUOTE]
:smug:
[QUOTE=Bonde;16147181]You could say that about cake too...[/QUOTE]
When is a cake ever a necessity?
Have you ever heard anyone say "Thank God I had that cake on me or else I'd be a dead man right now"?
Hello, firearms thread!
I'm looking to get into owning/shooting firearms, and I was wondering if anyone could recommend some good starting points. :buddy: At present, I am only 17, so obviously I can't actually own anything, but I'd like to know what to save for.
Some relatives have advised me to start with a handgun liscense. This would be great, as I've always imagined owning one for self-defense and range shooting. Some time in the future, though, I'd like to move up to a rifle, and I've seen quite a few people here on FP mention owning an AK-47.
My question is, what pistol and rifle should a beginner look in to? I'm starting to save and any help would be appreciated.
[QUOTE=thirty9th;16147615]Hello, firearms thread!
I'm looking to get into owning/shooting firearms, and I was wondering if anyone could recommend some good starting points. :buddy: At present, I am only 17, so obviously I can't actually own anything, but I'd like to know what to save for.
Some relatives have advised me to start with a handgun liscense. This would be great, as I've always imagined owning one for self-defense and range shooting. Some time in the future, though, I'd like to move up to a rifle, and I've seen quite a few people here on FP mention owning an AK-47.
My question is, what pistol and rifle should a beginner look in to? I'm starting to save and any help would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]
10/22 and browning buckmark
get a Mosin if you just want something cool at first but if you've never shot before then start with a .22
[editline]02:23AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;16147614]When is a cake ever a necessity?
Have you ever heard anyone say "Thank God I had that cake on me or else I'd be a dead man right now"?[/QUOTE]
what if you're mugged by a man demanding "cake or else" :colbert:
[QUOTE=thirty9th;16147615]Hello, firearms thread!
I'm looking to get into owning/shooting firearms, and I was wondering if anyone could recommend some good starting points. :buddy: At present, I am only 17, so obviously I can't actually own anything, but I'd like to know what to save for.
Some relatives have advised me to start with a handgun liscense. This would be great, as I've always imagined owning one for self-defense and range shooting. Some time in the future, though, I'd like to move up to a rifle, and I've seen quite a few people here on FP mention owning an AK-47.
My question is, what pistol and rifle should a beginner look in to? I'm starting to save and any help would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]
Where do you live? In the US you don't need a "Handgun license".
A good first gun would be a 10/22 of course, if you want a pistol, a Ruger MKIII (think that's the correct name too lazy to look it up) would be good.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;16147688]Where do you live? In the US you don't need a "Handgun license".
A good first gun would be a 10/22 of course, if you want a pistol, a Ruger MKIII (think that's the correct name too lazy to look it up) would be good.[/QUOTE]
I heard Rugers aren't as good as Browning Buckmarks
but then again my .22 pistol is a hi-standard so
how bout the walther g22 (lol) theres one at my local range, and ive been wanting to shoot it for ages now, its only a .22 caliber ( the bullets are nice and cheap), my dad was telling me he dosnt like the design,but with a scope it looks like the halo br lol
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/#cfc2cf68e27a5ded4a0ff60459fef30b.jpg][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/cfc2cf68e27a5ded4a0ff60459fef30b.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[QUOTE=antonio1442;16147845]how bout the walther g22 (lol) theres one at my local range, and ive been wanting to shoot it for ages now, its only a .22 caliber ( the bullets are nice and cheap), my dad was telling me he dosnt like the design,[B]but with a scope it looks like the halo br lol[/B]
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/#cfc2cf68e27a5ded4a0ff60459fef30b.jpg][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/cfc2cf68e27a5ded4a0ff60459fef30b.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
This is why we need to outlaw Halo and make children learn to read and spell.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16146723]yo I have guns but I don't pass the time thinking up new ways I can kill people when they (never will) break into my house
better not go outside if you don't have a gun. put guns above every door frame for maximum protection. carry a second gun on your ankle for redundancy. keep your hand on your gun at all times so you can go loud on tangos in the shopping mall. brown people might break into your house in the middle of the night to correspond with taliban sleeper agents while they steal your TV
Sometimes you guys take the sport too far, it's like carrying a football in the trunk/a deflated one in your pocket at all times in case you spot some home boys who might want to play ball. Gun owners are always painted as paranoid anti-social nutbags by the media and apparently it's a self-perpetuating stereotype.[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna quote something now, that dispels this bullshit. It's from Dave Grossman's (Lt. Col. US ARMY) "On Sheeps, Wolves and Sheepdogs" a passage in his excellent book "On Combat". It really is brilliant work, and I'd love to see you try refute this. Just be warned, it's a long read and if you're of the TL:DR type, then you shouldn't be arguing in the first place.
[QUOTE=]
"Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always, even death itself.
The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for?"
- William J. Bennett
In a lecture to the United States Naval Academy
November 24, 1997
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: “Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.
Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
“Then there are the wolves,” the old war veteran said, “and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.” Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.
“Then there are sheepdogs,” he went on, “and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.” Or, as a sign in one California law enforcement agency put it, “We intimidate those who intimidate others.”
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath--a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.
The gift of aggression
"What goes on around you... compares little with what goes on inside you."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Everyone has been given a gift in life. Some people have a gift for science and some have a flair for art. And warriors have been given the gift of aggression. They would no more misuse this gift than a doctor would misuse his healing arts, but they yearn for the opportunity to use their gift to help others. These people, the ones who have been blessed with the gift of aggression and a love for others, are our sheepdogs. These are our warriors.
One career police officer wrote to me about this after attending one of my Bulletproof Mind training sessions:
"I want to say thank you for finally shedding some light on why it is that I can do what I do. I always knew why I did it. I love my [citizens], even the bad ones, and had a talent that I could return to my community. I just couldn’t put my finger on why I could wade through the chaos, the gore, the sadness, if given a chance try to make it all better, and walk right out the other side."
Let me expand on this old soldier’s excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids’ schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid’s school. Our children are dozens of times more likely to be killed, and thousands of times more likely to be seriously injured, by school violence than by school fires, but the sheep’s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their children is just too hard, so they choose the path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”
Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog. As Kipling said in his poem about “Tommy” the British soldier:
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door. Look at what happened after September 11, 2001, when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?
Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, “Thank God I wasn’t on one of those planes.” The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, “Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference.” When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
While there is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, he does have one real advantage. Only one. He is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population.
There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory acts of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.
However, when there were cues given by potential victims that indicated they would not go easily, the cons said that they would walk away. If the cons sensed that the target was a "counter-predator," that is, a sheepdog, they would leave him alone unless there was no other choice but to engage.
One police officer told me that he rode a commuter train to work each day. One day, as was his usual, he was standing in the crowded car, dressed in blue jeans, T-shirt and jacket, holding onto a pole and reading a paperback. At one of the stops, two street toughs boarded, shouting and cursing and doing every obnoxious thing possible to intimidate the other riders. The officer continued to read his book, though he kept a watchful eye on the two punks as they strolled along the aisle making comments to female passengers, and banging shoulders with men as they passed.
As they approached the officer, he lowered his novel and made eye contact with them. “You got a problem, man?” one of the IQ-challenged punks asked. “You think you’re tough, or somethin’?” the other asked, obviously offended that this one was not shirking away from them.
“As a matter of fact, I am tough,” the officer said, calmly and with a steady gaze.
The two looked at him for a long moment, and then without saying a word, turned and moved back down the aisle to continue their taunting of the other passengers, the sheep.
Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I’m proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.
Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, “Let’s roll,” which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers--athletes, business people and parents--from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
“Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?”
"here is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men."
- Edmund Burke
Reflections on the Revolution in France
Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn’t have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.
If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior’s path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to slaughter you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, “I will never be caught without my gun in church.” I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a police officer he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas, in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down 14 people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy’s body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?”
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for “heads to roll” if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids’ school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them. Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?”
The warrior must cleanse denial from his thinking. Coach Bob Lindsey, a renowned law enforcement trainer, says that warriors must practice “when/then” thinking, not “if/when.” Instead of saying,“If it happens then I will take action,” the warrior says, “When it happens then I will be ready.”
It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.
Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: You didn’t bring your gun; you didn’t train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by fear, helplessness, horror and shame at your moment of truth.
Chuck Yeager, the famous test pilot and first man to fly faster than the speed of sound, says that he knew he could die. There was no denial for him. He did not allow himself the luxury of denial. This acceptance of reality can cause fear, but it is a healthy, controlled fear that will keep you alive:
"I was always afraid of dying. Always. It was my fear that made me learn everything I could about my airplane and my emergency equipment, and kept me flying respectful of my machine and always alert in the cockpit."
- Brigadier General Chuck Yeager
Yeager, An Autobiography
Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation:
"..denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn’t so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling. Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level."
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be “on” 24/7 for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... “Baa.”
This business of being a sheep or a sheepdog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-grass sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=professional;16147924]I'm gonna quote something now, that dispels this bullshit. It's from Dave Grossman's (Lt. Col. US ARMY) "On Sheeps, Wolves and Sheepdogs" a passage in his excellent book "On Combat". It really is brilliant work, and I'd love to see you try refute this. Just be warned, it's a long read and if you're of the TL:DR type, then you shouldn't be arguing in the first place.[/QUOTE]
what's this even saying
maybe if you can't be concise and have to rely on other people's longwinded arguments you shouldn't be arguing :smug: but really though a cursory scan makes it seem like it's all about how ULTIMATE WARRIORS aren't SHEEP when WOLVES show up, how's this supposed to make me believe this isn't all justification for an irrational violence fetish against an enemy that won't ever turn up? What is your fascination with carrying guns around when a vast majority of the rest of the world gets along fine without even so much as touching a gun? Do you carry it for protection from "the bad guy", or for a sense of "manliness"?
[QUOTE=professional;16147924]I'm gonna quote something now, that dispels this bullshit. It's from Dave Grossman's (Lt. Col. US ARMY) "On Sheeps, Wolves and Sheepdogs" a passage in his excellent book "On Combat". It really is brilliant work, and I'd love to see you try refute this. Just be warned, it's a long read and if you're of the TL:DR type, then you shouldn't be arguing in the first place.[/QUOTE]
No way in the holy land of Fuck am I reading all that.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16146723]yo I have guns but I don't pass the time thinking up new ways I can kill people when they (never will) break into my house
better not go outside if you don't have a gun. put guns above every door frame for maximum protection. carry a second gun on your ankle for redundancy. keep your hand on your gun at all times so you can go loud on tangos in the shopping mall. brown people might break into your house in the middle of the night to correspond with taliban sleeper agents while they steal your TV
Sometimes you guys take the sport too far, it's like carrying a football in the trunk/a deflated one in your pocket at all times in case you spot some home boys who might want to play ball. Gun owners are always painted as paranoid anti-social nutbags by the media and apparently it's a self-perpetuating stereotype.[/QUOTE]
Except you paint me as one of them with that post, and completely ignore most of what I said.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;16148257]No way in the holy land of Fuck am I reading all that.[/QUOTE]
no, you HAVE to read it, otherwise you aren't allowed to argue bro
[editline]03:14AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16148318]Except you paint me as one of them with that post, and completely ignore most of what I said.[/QUOTE]
you mean the line about how you'd feel so unsafe living overseas without your gun because of all the violent crime?
it's cool that you actually admit you don't need it, but it's only a half-realization
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16147727]I heard Rugers aren't as good as Browning Buckmarks
but then again my .22 pistol is a hi-standard so[/QUOTE]
I can personally verify this with a side by side test.
My browning buckmark ran over 1000 rounds without a single jam beyond a few duds.
My friend's ruger mark 3 jammed 3-4 times per magazine.
This was all in 1 range visit.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16148387]I can personally verify this with a side by side test.
My browning buckmark ran over 1000 rounds without a single jam beyond a few duds.
My friend's ruger mark 3 jammed 3-4 times per magazine.
This was all in 1 range visit.[/QUOTE]
Buckmark it is then.
The Rugers have a long heritage but it's clear Brownings are functionally superior.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16148328]
you mean the line about how you'd feel so unsafe living overseas without your gun because of all the violent crime?
it's cool that you actually admit you don't need it, but it's only a half-realization[/QUOTE]
I would feel more of a need for a firearm overseas than I do here.
I don't see how that suddenly makes me some sort of insecure retard.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16148430]I would feel more of a need for a firearm overseas than I do here.
I don't see how that suddenly makes me some sort of insecure retard.[/QUOTE]
maybe it's the fact that the actual citizens that actually live there for generations have gotten along fine without needing to carry around a gun for self-defense
maybe thugs overseas would target you thinking you're a rich tourist who knows! :smile:
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;16148455]maybe it's the fact that the actual citizens that actually live there for generations have gotten along fine without needing to carry around a gun for self-defense
maybe thugs overseas would target you thinking you're a rich tourist who knows! :smile:[/QUOTE]
Just listening to friend's stories...
Ok listen guys.
I'm gone on vacation for 3 days (which I told you guys about ahead of time by the way) and this turns into a gun control debate thread.
I should probably make a note of it in the OP but everyone posting here is well aware from prior experience that [b]this is not the thread in which to have this discussion[/b].
If you wish to carry on, make another thread and discuss it there or just let it go.
DrMortician's various opinions on the value of expensive firearms over less expensive ones, while not particularly conducive was more relevant. Nevertheless after I asked people to let it go, it carried on for what appeared to be a day. I really don't want to bring it up again but just remember when I ask you guys to let something go, please let it go.
I usually say that when a discussion is turning into a flame war. Which is why I don't like gun control debates in this thread. Those inevitably turn into flame-fests. Or at very least an excuse to quote entire novels.
Now with that all said and this current matter hopefully taken to another thread, what do you guys want me to write about before going to sleep?
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