Fantastic Firearms Part 2 - General

[QUOTE=professional;16177338]Ok fine. Here's a few that come off the top of my head: 1911 Browning HP 1911 based clones H&K USP Sig P226, P228 , P229 CZ-75[/QUOTE] It beats all of those in magazine capitacity, it equals all of those in accuracy, and it beats them all in its safety system.

I don't see why a safety system makes one gun better than the other. As long it prevents you from shooting yourself.

Redundant grip safety = god's safety device. IF I were to ever own a XD, it would be the XDM. Also the CZ75 SP01 matches it in out of the box magazine capacity with 19 round magazines. [editline]10:09AM[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;16177628]I don't see why a safety system makes one gun better than the other. As long it prevents you from shooting yourself.[/QUOTE] Only an idiot would rely on arbitrary safety devices in place of proper firearms handling.

[QUOTE=JoshuaC;16177659]Redundant grip safety = god's safety device. IF I were to ever own a XD, it would be the XDM. Also the CZ75 SP01 matches it in out of the box magazine capacity with 19 round magazines. [editline]10:09AM[/editline] Only an idiot would rely on arbitrary safety devices in place of proper firearms handling.[/QUOTE] The CZ75 does match the out of box magazine capacity, but it doesn't match the rest of the things I have said. I'm not saying that you should rely on the firearms safety instead of learning how to properly control a firearm, i'm saying that if that person doesn't have that, and they went out and used one of the guns you suggested, they could harm themselves or others. Also, the drop safety (Where if you drop the gun it won't go off) is useful regardless of how much firearms experience you have. Accidently will happen, and you don't want a shot in the chest because you dropped a gun the wrong way.

When I was talking about safety devices I meant things like a grip safety and a conventional safety lever. I'm a big fan of FP blocks and the drop safeties.

What about the M2 Flamethrower? I know it's not a firearm but it was an important infantry weapon in WWII and Vietnam

[QUOTE=JoshuaC;16177977]When I was talking about safety devices I meant things like a grip safety and a conventional safety lever. I'm a big fan of FP blocks and the drop safeties.[/QUOTE] And that's my point, all the features of the XD are there, and it tops all other handguns in overall features. The m1911 has reliability, the USP has excellent accuracy. The XD has both, with more features then you could ever want. I know that some pistols match the XD with certain features, but none put it all together. Also, the CZ-75 is heavier and doesn't have the drop safety (As far as I know)

[QUOTE=jgerm529;16177981]What about the M2 Flamethrower? I know it's not a firearm but it was an important infantry weapon in WWII and Vietnam[/QUOTE] and WW1

[QUOTE=nunu;16178211]and WW1[/QUOTE] I don't believe so.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;16178107]And that's my point, all the features of the XD are there, and it tops all other handguns in overall features. The m1911 has reliability, the USP has excellent accuracy. The XD has both, with more features then you could ever want. I know that some pistols match the XD with certain features, but none put it all together. [/QUOTE] The USP has both of those qualities... So does a customized 1911 platform.. The HK45 is just another step up from the USP from what was already an excellent pistol. [QUOTE=Oecleus;16178276]I don't believe so.[/QUOTE] + 1 If anything, MGs were probably the most important weapon of WW1.

[QUOTE=professional;16178278]The USP has both of those qualities... So does a customized 1911 platform.. The HK45 is just another step up from the USP from what was already an excellent pistol.[/QUOTE] But a springfield XD(m) has both of those, [b]standard[/b]. Through mods you can make a lot of pistols very accurate and reliable, i'm talking about the vast majority produced for a low price.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;16178107]And that's my point, all the features of the XD are there, and it tops all other handguns in overall features. The m1911 has reliability, the USP has excellent accuracy. The XD has both, with more features then you could ever want. I know that some pistols match the XD with certain features, but none put it all together. Also, the CZ-75 is heavier and doesn't have the drop safety (As far as I know)[/QUOTE] When I say CZ-75 I'm really talking about the platform. Older 75's and some of the newer ones don't have FP blocks but the 75B and alot of their other models do.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;16178314]But a springfield XD(m) has both of those, [b]standard[/b]. Through mods you can make a lot of pistols very accurate and reliable, i'm talking about the vast majority produced for a low price.[/QUOTE] USP still stands. Or the HK45 for the matter. Excellent accuracy, great reliability, great ergonomics, shitty customer support :v:

[QUOTE=professional;16178363]USP still stands. Or the HK45 for the matter. Excellent accuracy, great reliability, great ergonomics, shitty customer support :v:[/QUOTE] Yeah, you get on the phone if anything goes wrong and they direct you to some guy named Hans who goes "Zomething wrong vif USP? NEIN! LIEZ! ZLANDER!" Also I think professional might be right. Even if it's a great weapon I'd prefer if it has been out for at least 10-20 years. That and I think I'll do a special edition on the Molotov next.

[QUOTE=professional;16178363]USP still stands. Or the HK45 for the matter. Excellent accuracy, great reliability, great ergonomics, shitty customer support :V:[/QUOTE] Aren't they expensive though? I thought the general rule was, if you buy from H&K you get quality, but you pay an exaggerated price. Last time I checked the price for a springfield was anywhere between $500-600. Additionally, the USP has lower magazine capitacity. You can't really top 20+1 rounds the springfield offers.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16178415]Yeah, you get on the phone if anything goes wrong and they direct you to some guy named Hans who goes "Zomething wrong vif USP? NEIN! LIEZ! ZLANDER!"[/QUOTE] Lololol yeah, it must be stamped in the employee manual "The customer is ALWAYS wrong" followed by "Always assume user error no matter what" [QUOTE=Oecleus;16178435]Aren't they expensive though? I thought the general rule was, if you buy from H&K you get quality, but you pay an exaggerated price. Last time I checked the price for a springfield was anywhere between $500-600. Additionally, the USP has lower magazine capitacity. You can't really top 20+1 rounds the springfield offers.[/QUOTE] Oh fuck yeah, I don't dispute that. HK is fucking ridiculous with their pricing. Blame all the special forces who bought up the MP5 like it was crack. Funny how what is essentially a G3 in 9x19mm launches H&K into the big league.

A little off topic but I thought I'd show you all some exceptional shooting. To those who think pistols are useless for anything other than short range. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd3kF6LHz4[/media]

[QUOTE=JoshuaC;16178456]A little off topic but I thought I'd show you all some exceptional shooting. To those who think pistols are useless for anything other than short range. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd3kF6LHz4[/media][/QUOTE] Arguably they're still useless because like he said it takes almost completely perfect marksmanship to pull that off. Most people simply can't do that.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16178597]Arguably they're still useless because like he said it takes almost completely perfect marksmanship to pull that off. Most people simply can't do that.[/QUOTE] But it can be done. Proving that more than not it's usually the shooter, and not the gun that accounts for accuracy.

[QUOTE=Guardian-Angel;16176781]gun != explosive I'd like to see the S&W Model 686 done some time. The first, best double-action .38/.357[/QUOTE] There have been DA .38/.357 revolvers before the 1980's. Off the top of my head, we have the Taurus Brasil. Made in the 50's.

Got any more SMG's articles you are going to do?

Hey Bean-O you did the M203 which isnt realy a gun so could you do the M2 Flamethrower or the M1917A1 .30 Cal. Machine gun or the M20 Recoilless Rifle

I second the M20.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;16178276]I don't believe so.[/QUOTE] I didn't mean the m2 sorry. I just meant flamethrowers in general. Miss read your post.

[QUOTE=professional;16178278]The USP has both of those qualities... So does a customized 1911 platform.. [/QUOTE] I have a USP compact tactical. Not better than an XD. Stupid proprietary rail, bad ergonomics, shit mag capacity, and weighs about 30% too much.

I'm surprised i've even gotten this far on the forums with out someone pointing out my lack of any experience talking about any gun whatsoever. I haven't shot anything besides my dads unmarked 12 gauge and german mauser. I don't own anything except a ruger 10/22 but it's in my fathers name since i'm only 15.

Dont you hate it when you post and realise what you were replying to was 3 pages back?

[QUOTE=DualReaver;16156045]uggggggghhhhhhhhh......... That's not what I meant. I know he has to clean it. He has all the time in the world afterwords to take his gun apart and clean it. Does it really matter how hard it is to take apart and clean when you can take it home and spend as much time as you want on cleaning it? ughhhhhhhhhh..........................................[/QUOTE] My head went beeeeeeeeeewm. Did you ever think that maybe he has to go somewhere soon? Or doesn't want to spend the remaining 7 hours in the day cleaning his gun? Hm? [editline]09:53PM[/editline] Has the AK-107 been done? I don't see it on the list- then again, it is a fairly new gun.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16167067]I can't find that much information about the K31's origins but here goes: 72)K31 [img]http://world.guns.ru/rifle/k31.jpg[/img] Contrary to popular belief the K31 wasn't designed by Rudolf Schmidt Although it was based off the Schmidt-Rubin design which goes back to 1889. Way back then most armies used single-shot paper cartridge rifles in roughly .50 caliber. For this reason the original Schmidt-Rubin in 7.5x53mm was a real innovation in a number of ways. While the bullets it fired were still in paper cartridges, they fed from a removable 12 round magazine. More interestingly rather than having a conventional bolt-action it featured a strait pull. The inner workings still rotated like a normal bolt-action and the gun still had to be cycled for every shot but the exterior of the bolt was mounted on a rail that rotated it as it was moved back and forth. This means that instead of cycling the action (ejecting the spent casing, cocking the gun, chambering a fresh round) by pulling a bolt up, back, forward and down it was done by simply moving it back and forward. This faster action coupled with the higher magazine capacity meant that this gun had a significantly greater rate of fire than other bolt-action rifles of its time. But this design and its many variants eventually became outdated. In 1911 a new rifle based on this design was issued to the troops in tandem with a new metal-cased 7.5x55mm ammunition (it has roughly the ballistic properties of 7.62 NATO). While the basic idea behind the rifle was still the same it was essentially redesigned from the ground up. The result was more refined. While it still had a removable magazine which is somewhat rare in bolt-action rifles even today, it held 6 shots rather than 12. A carbine version was made as well. But that rifle was the K11, not the K31. Like I said before the original design of the series, Rudolf, had nothing to do with the new 1911 model or many of the 1889's variants because he died in 1898. Likewise he had nothing to do with the K31. It was actually designed by Waffenfabrik Bern. At that time the Swiss got the idea to take the K11, and make a rifle based on that which was as accurate as the full-sized 1911 rifle while being less expensive to manufacture and more reliable (since the strait-pull action occasionally encountered feed problems). Impossible? Not at all. in 1931 a rifle was adopted which matched all of those characteristics. Overall it was a refinement of the previous rifle. The stronger action could sometimes survive being fired with a barrel blockage. In fact four rifles fired off 150,000 rounds without any issues at all. Oh, and it still used the 7.5mm round. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. While these rifles cost less than their predecessors they were still made to very demanding standards. The high accuracy and reliability were prized by the soldiers in the field although ironically this excellent weapon never really saw much fighting. Although roughly half a million were made to equip every man in Switzerland of fighting age no one outside of Switzerland adopted them. These rifles served to intimidate Germany throughout WW2 and like all bolt-actions were essentially obsolete by the time the war ended. They were replaced with the SIG 510 in the 1950's and tossed into arsenals or issued to civilians although a sniper variant remained in service for several years afterwords. But like many such obsolete rifles rather than rotting in a dank bunker or being tossed into shredders they were sold off and have found a second life in the civilian market. The Swiss greatly prize the history of this rifle which (much like their homeland) never fought any wars, but the sub-MOA accuracy and excellent ballistics of the 7.5x55mm round are a neat bonus. Not only are they popular within Switzerland where the obsolete ammunition is still widely available, they have made it to the US as well. Many have been imported here and sold for way less than they are worth at bargain basement prices. Many were snatched up for as little as 400$. A real steal considering that a rifle of such quality could easily cost well in the thousands today. While these rifles are accurate and their ammunition excellent for hunting they don't see that many sales with shooters since the ammunition is too scarce in the states. Rather they are mostly bought by collectors or simply those who find them interesting. One neat fun fact is that many have a slip of paper under the buttplate containing the name and contact information of its previous owner. It is not uncommon that these people are contacted by curious collectors. It is also worth noting that while the rifles themselves tend to be in excellent condition and ready to shoot thousands upon thousands of rounds the stocks tend to be severely damaged. This is because during their service they were used as shovels, hammers, boot cleaners and the like.[/QUOTE] Just one thing chief, the 7.5x55 isn't obsolete, it's still being used in the swiss version of the MG42. But overall I very much agree, I am swiss and my grandfather had several k31s and a k11 also the Stgw 57 aka. Sig 510.

[QUOTE=hurts;16186722]My head went beeeeeeeeeewm. Did you ever think that maybe he has to go somewhere soon? Or doesn't want to spend the remaining 7 hours in the day cleaning his gun? Hm? [editline]09:53PM[/editline] Has the AK-107 been done? I don't see it on the list- then again, it is a fairly new gun.[/QUOTE] AK 100 series is just an upgraded form of the ak47, which is the first article.