Fantastic Firearms Part 2 - General

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16816465]A lot of people claim that the Browning Buck Mark is better and they might be right but the Ruger is still more popular.[/QUOTE] Friend has a ruger and I have a buckmark. My buckmark makes his ruger look laughable and it cost a considerable amount less. The craftsman ship on the buckmark is miles and miles beyond that of the ruger. The reliability of the buckmark is also far better, by design and in the field, than the ruger. I paid $289 new for my buckmark, he gave $470 for his mark 3. I can't believe the quality difference is SO much better on the buckmark. It's amazing. If you run quality ammo you will never have a malfunction. The ruger jams by design, the loaded chamber indicator causes extremely hard to clear jams.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16824346]Friend has a ruger and I have a buckmark. My buckmark makes his ruger look laughable and it cost a considerable amount less. The craftsman ship on the buckmark is miles and miles beyond that of the ruger. The reliability of the buckmark is also far better, by design and in the field, than the ruger. I paid $289 new for my buckmark, he gave $470 for his mark 3. I can't believe the quality difference is SO much better on the buckmark. It's amazing. If you run quality ammo you will never have a malfunction. The ruger jams by design, the loaded chamber indicator causes extremely hard to clear jams.[/QUOTE] My father owns two Rugers, I've fired hundreds of rounds through them both in a single sitting, the muzzles turned black, the barrel could burn you at one point. Not a single malfunction.

It seems that every purchase DrMortician has ever made is "the best" of it's category, and he always gets it for a great deal. Then he'll point out to just about everyone else how illogical their purchase is.

Winchester Model 12 [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Trench_Shotgun_win12_800.jpg[/img] When it finally found the acceptance it deserved Winchester's Browning-designed 1897 shotgun proved to be a revolution in the industry. Seeking to capitalize on this success Winchester had its design staff, led by Thomas Crosley Johnson modernize it in 1912. The biggest improvement over the old '97 was the hammer, or lack thereof. Granted there is still a hammer it is internal and therefore much less likely to snag or jam. The practice of doing this soon became an industry standard with guns such as the Winchester 1300, Mossberg 500 and Remington 870. Initially it was only offered in 20 gauge but in part due to its success after being released in 1912, 12 and 16 gauge variants were offered in 1914. Pretty soon the 12 gauge version became the most popular. Law enforcement agencies were quick to embrace it for the same reason they valued the 1897. The US military was very quick to snatch them up as well. Model 12s fought alongside their more aged brethren (the '97s) in WW1 and WW2. Soon enough they almost completely eclipsed the inventories of its predecessor. It is also among the very few guns used by all branches. The Air Force used them to keep saboteurs off their bases, the Navy used them to keep guard over their ships when docked, the Marines used shotguns to great effect in the Pacific Theater of WW2 and the Army naturally used them on the front lines, even if they did so in limited numbers. This gun remained in service long after WW2. All branches, seeing no reason to replace it, continued to use Model 12s throughout the Korean and Vietnam wars. But while the Model 12 was doing well abroad it was the competition at home that ultimately sealed its fate. Because it used high-quality construction with many carefuly machined parts it was expensive to produce. By the 1960's other companies such as Remington and Mossberg introduced pump guns that were just as effective but they utilized cheaper construction and therefore cost less. Sales eventually dwindled and Winchester halted mass production in 1963. But that wasn't the end. You could actually custom order one up until 2006 when the factory was finally closed down which means that this shotgun had an impressive production run of 90+ years. In all that time more than two million served civilian customers, the police who protected them and the soldiers that protected the entire country.

I would really like to get a shotgun myself. Not like I have to save up much...

Fucking do sig 510

[QUOTE=Wittmann;16821544]Brazil=aids[/QUOTE] I still can't understand what Brazil has to do with AIDS :smug: @ Winchester 12

[QUOTE=Joxalot;16838443]I still can't understand what Brazil has to do with AIDS :smug: @ Winchester 12[/QUOTE] Smug how?

I meant face expression

[QUOTE=Wittmann;16837310]Fucking do sig 510[/QUOTE] With the amount of swiss guns people want he should just make an article about pretty damn near all of them at once.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;16826748]It seems that every purchase DrMortician has ever made is "the best" of it's category, and he always gets it for a great deal. Then he'll point out to just about everyone else how illogical their purchase is.[/QUOTE] Yea. I don't waste my money and I research shit for a long time before I buy it. Between myself and a few friends we own a fuckload of different firearms so I have experience with about everything. Today I traded off my springfield XD for a 1911. Got a Kimber customshop LTPII 1911, it was a limited-10 class race gun. Amazing firearm. I always hated kimber but this was head and shoulders above every other 1911 in the shop. [media]http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8928/mykimber.jpg[/media] I was extremely surprised to find colt 1911s to be fairly meh. I'm sure they're great, but the trigger was heavy and it was pretty featureless.

Awesome Next weekend my uncle is planning to take me to a shooting site for a try-out :3: [editline]09:32PM[/editline] Btw sexy pistol

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16845221]Yea. I don't waste my money and I research shit for a long time before I buy it. Between myself and a few friends we own a fuckload of different firearms so I have experience with about everything. Today I traded off my springfield XD for a 1911. Got a Kimber customshop LTPII 1911, it was a limited-10 class race gun. Amazing firearm. I always hated kimber but this was head and shoulders above every other 1911 in the shop. [media]http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8928/mykimber.jpg[/media] I was extremely surprised to find colt 1911s to be fairly meh. I'm sure they're great, but the trigger was heavy and it was pretty featureless.[/QUOTE] I never saw the appeal in the 1911.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;16845314]I never saw the appeal in the 1911.[/QUOTE] I never really did either. If you already own an upperclass hand gun you may not really see the sense but if you can afford to have one, every gun owner should at some point. It's a super tight, very accurate firearm. It's also a lot slimmer than my other guns, and it's fairly light. It's fantastic for carry.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16845512]I never really did either. If you already own an upperclass hand gun you may not really see the sense but if you can afford to have one, every gun owner should at some point. It's a super tight, very accurate firearm. It's also a lot slimmer than my other guns, and it's fairly light. It's fantastic for carry.[/QUOTE] I've fired and handled my dad's plenty of times. Hated the shit out of it, too big, too clunky, hard to operate, unreliable (could've just been his, which was a Springfield Armory), and inaccurate.

The Smith & Wesson M&P45 has got to be the closest thing to a modern 1911 there is.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;16845641]I've fired and handled my dad's plenty of times. Hated the shit out of it, too big, too clunky, hard to operate, unreliable (could've just been his, which was a Springfield Armory), and inaccurate.[/QUOTE] Probably just a problem with being a springfield, was it a cheaper model? This 1911 is about the same weight as my XD, but balanced a bit nose heavy. It's not really big but I guess I'm used to my ungodly bulky five seven. Accuracy is ridiculous. I can't wait to get it out to the 50 yard range.

Colt model 635 [img]http://world.guns.ru/smg/COLT635.JPG[/img] In the 1980's the German MP5 series was sweeping the world of SMGs. Having realized that the new role of an SMG is either that of a lightweight personal defense weapon or alternatively a highly accurate and sophisticated closed-bolt gun for special applications where accuracy mattered but so did collateral damage H&K made a gun accomplished both quite effectively since it was lighter and more accurate than many of its WW2 era predecessors such as the MP-40. Feeling the need to compete with this new German import Colt decided to develop a closed-bolt SMG of their own. Ironically they did so much the same way their competition did. The Germans took the G3 battle rifle and scaled it down to 9x19mm. Colt took their M16a2 and scaled that down to 9mm as well. However unlike the MP5 the Colt 635 doesn't retain the gas system. Instead it uses a simple blowback upper receiver. The lower receiver (I think) is interchangeable with the M16 series although I am not sure. Unlike the M16a2 the 635 has a fully-automatic setting rather than a 3-round burst although a 3 round burst version does exist as we shall see. Compared to H&K's MP5 series the colt is a bit simpler since it doesn't have a roller lock system. This helps keep the cost low although that goes out the window when you factor in all the license built copies of the MP5. It still helps keep it light although in the end it weighs about the same as many other MP5 variants. The real advantage is the layout. It has all the same controls as the M16/AR-15 series. Everything is in the exact same place. That means if you have been trained with an M16 you can very quickly and easily familiarize yourself with the 635. That saves a lot of headaches and spending for the various agencies that use it, assuming they use the M16 series in tandem. It is for that reason why (at least within the US) law enforcement sales have been very good. It has won out in many contracts over its German nemesis. Agencies such as the US Marshalls and DEA are known for carrying them in large numbers. In fact the DEA carry their own variant which has a shorter barrel known as the 633. A 3 round burst variant known as the 639. A civilian semi-automatic-only version exists as well. A company called La France makes a .45 ACP version that takes Thompson magazines. Other than the Marshalls and the DEA the US Marines have been known to carry a couple. The US Department of Energy uses them to guard nuclear power plants from possible terrorist threats. This is on top of numerous SWAT and counter-terrorist teams across the country and some abroad as well. I think this is perhaps an iffy addition to the list. While it was widely successful within the states as a Law Enforcement weapon the purposes it serves are still somewhat specialized and while it has seen substantial sales outside of the US it is still not as successful nor as prolific as other submachine guns. But it was designed to fill a purpose, to give the MP5 a run for its money and at least within the US it has done just that rather well. Should I keep it on the list? You decide. If you guys think it is worthy I will give it a number and move it to the front page tomorrow.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;16845641]I've fired and handled my dad's plenty of times. Hated the shit out of it, too big, too clunky, hard to operate, unreliable (could've just been his, which was a Springfield Armory), and inaccurate.[/QUOTE] Hard to operate and inaccurate?? how hard to operate can a gun be?! you pull the damn slide back and pull the trigger...and your inaccurate because you cant shoot, ive shot more 1911's than i have fingers and toes and each one was accurate enough to shoot a fly's ass off.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16847258]Should I keep it on the list? You decide. If you guys think it is worthy I will give it a number and move it to the front page tomorrow.[/QUOTE] Well I thought the thread was for guns that were very well made/effective, not just used by everyone. Plenty of guns were used by many people but still sucked ass. I never heard of the 635 but it sounds like a pretty good gun, so I'd say it fits.

[QUOTE=Exille;16847336]Hard to operate and inaccurate?? how hard to operate can a gun be?! you pull the damn slide back and pull the trigger...and your inaccurate because you cant shoot, ive shot more 1911's than i have fingers and toes and each one was accurate enough to shoot a fly's ass off.[/QUOTE] The mag release is hard to push and reach, the slide release is hard to push, the whole gun just feels wrong, it's inaccurate, I can shoot circles around the piece of shit with my Walther P1.

[QUOTE=Evil clock!!;16847406]The mag release is hard to push and reach, the slide release is hard to push, the whole gun just feels wrong, it's inaccurate, I can shoot circles around the piece of shit with my Walther P1.[/QUOTE] Not sure what gun you were playing with but it sure as hell wasnt a 1911.

[QUOTE=Exille;16847462]Not sure what gun you were playing with but it sure as hell wasnt a 1911.[/QUOTE] Yeah, the bastard that wrote "Springfield Armory 1911" on the slide was lying to me.

Musta been.

I prefer the older (WW1 WW11) issues of 1911s, they feel better built to me.

[QUOTE=Evil clock!!;16847562]Yeah, the bastard that wrote "Springfield Armory 1911" on the slide was lying to me.[/QUOTE] Who the fuck knows... All I know is mine was used in competition by the previous owner so he's obviously dialed it in to be all it can be. It's my only experience with 1911s besides handling a few. As for your dad's 1911, it could be one of those $500 GI specials. I handled one and was underwhelmed. Didn't get to shoot it though, but I doubt it would have done much.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16848688]Who the fuck knows... All I know is mine was used in competition by the previous owner so he's obviously dialed it in to be all it can be. It's my only experience with 1911s besides handling a few. As for your dad's 1911, it could be one of those $500 GI specials. I handled one and was underwhelmed. Didn't get to shoot it though, but I doubt it would have done much.[/QUOTE] Government model tbh. Extended grip safety, and some other customized crap people put on these things. Honestly I would like a WW1 1911, if they didn't cost so damn much, the history would make up for my hatred of the ergonomics.

[QUOTE=Evil clock!!;16848710]Government model tbh. Extended grip safety, and some other customized crap people put on these things. Honestly I would like a WW1 1911, if they didn't cost so damn much, the history would make up for my hatred of the ergonomics.[/QUOTE] I'd use mine to blast goons

[QUOTE=Karskin;16849790]I'd use mine to blast goons[/QUOTE] Mmkay.

There's just something about the 1911 that just appeals to me. I don't know what it is, but it makes me jizm over it. Not literally, but I like it a lot.