[QUOTE=Kman1;16889457]I'd rather have the G3's 7.62x51mm than 5.56mm.[/QUOTE]
Why?
There is a reason we switched out service weapon to the smaller round..
I suggested the M3 Grease Gun and the Carcano a few pages back.
I think you should do an article on Evil Clock's penis.
more like evil cock's penis.
ba dum psh
[QUOTE=Oecleus;16890005]Why?
There is a reason we switched out service weapon to the smaller round..[/QUOTE]
To comply with NATO regs. If I could have it my way, we'd still be running .30-06, or at the very least 7.62x51... sadly that's not the case ;)
Also, to the guy who corrected me about the DM bit... thanks, interesting info.
[QUOTE=massn7;16891932]To comply with NATO regs. If I could have it my way, we'd still be running .30-06, or at the very least 7.62x51... sadly that's not the case ;)
Also, to the guy who corrected me about the DM bit... thanks, interesting info.[/QUOTE]
Here here. :cheers:
[QUOTE=Reaver1991;16890894]I think you should do an article on Evil Clock's penis.[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Mugofdoom's alt btw so it's Mugofdoom's penis, Evil Cock is a fag.
[editline]10:35PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=LordLoss;16888504]Not much to talk about really.[/QUOTE]
Bitch my dick owns you.
I had toy SWATs with HK33s when I was younger.
I got a better idea:
deagle brand deagle
100)Winchester Rifle and Variants
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Winchester_Model_1894.jpg[/img]
Pictured is a '94. It was in production until 2006.
It is known as the gun that won the west. Perhaps a misnomer since it was too expensive and difficult to use for most settlers who preferred side-by-side shotguns but never the less the Winchester 1873 is synonymous in the public conscience with the imagery of the Wild West.
It all started with the Henry Rifle which was the first lever-action. It fired .44 caliber rimfire cartridges. After its success in the Civil War the Winchester Repeating Arms company made an improved version that fired the same cartridge in 1866. People called these guns the "Improved Henry" since like I said, that is essentially all it is. A bit stronger and more accurate.
Eventually This too would be further refined. In 1873 Winchester created an icon. In simple terms they took the 1866, tweaked even more and chambered it in calibers such as .44-40, .38-40 and .32-20. The thing to note is that those were not rifle calibers. Those were popular handgun calibers of the day. That meant you could carry both a rifle and a pistol but only one kind of ammunition. This convenience helped sell almost a million of these rifles which indeed became a common sight in the west. Contrary to popular belief, while leagues more accurate than a smoothbore musket the '73 isn't the most accurate gun of all time. Since it fired handgun bullets with black powder (rather than the much more powerful smokeless powder most firearms use today) the range was very limited but significantly greater than what a handgun in the same caliber could offer. It could also hold more ammo, reload faster and in the right hands unload it pretty quickly too.
In a way you can think of it as the SMG or Assault Rifle of its time.
Three years later Winchester introduced the 1876. This time they took the Henry-based weapon and stretched it to its limits. It was chambered in full-size rifle bullets such as .40-60, .45-60 and .50-90. But everyone wanted .45-70 Gov't since that was a very popular caliber of the time. While Winchester did offer a shorter .45-75 WCF cartridge that was meant to emulate the .45-70 with the release of the '76 it simply wasn't enough. While still successful the limitations of the Henry-based Winchesters frustrated Winchester's efforts to chamber it in the more popular caliber.
It seemed nothing short of divine intervention would fix this problem.
Then John Browning stepped in. In 1886 he redesigned pretty much the entire rifle, introducing a much stronger action that could facilitate the much more sought-after round. This gun was initially chambered in .45-70 and eventually even more powerful buffalo gun bullets such as .50-110 and .45-90.
By the 1890's the days of the wild west with which the Winchester series of lever-action rifles are so synonymous were numbered. So too, it seemed, were the days of the lever-action rifle. But then in 1894 John Browning stepped in again. He took his version of the Winchester, the 1886, which had a much stronger action and scaled it down to more manegable calibers such as the new 30-30. This gun became known as the 1894. It essentially created the now ubiquitous 30-30 caliber which even today almost completely dominates the world of deer hunting in the US.
The best part of the '94 is that the production run lasted 102 years. That's right. It wasn't until 2006 when facing financial crisis Winchester finally stopped making them. During that time no less than 7 [b]million[/b] were sold in the US and abroad, eclipsing all of the Winchester lever-action rifle sales that came before it combined. Even then several companies such as Rossi and Uberti still make them today since the patent had expired long ago and the gun practically sells itself.
After the '96 numerous rifles came and went, some more successful than others. For the sake of not making this article unbearably long I will save them for later. But what Winchester achieved before the turn of the century is something that every firearm manufacturer envies. With its handiwork Winchester carved its name in history, synonymous with a bygone era that many Americans and even foreigners are very nostalgic about. It made itself a household name. A name any man, woman or child on the street can recognize. And that is by no means something that is easy to do.
Well, I guess that's the last of it.
I wonder what's next?
Bean-O, if you don't mind my asking, how old are you and what do you plan to study in college? If you're under that age.
You would make a good military historian.
I never set a limit on this thread so no, it's not the end quite yet.
Responding to Lineor, I'm currently majoring in Administration of Justice at a community college. But I'm planning on changing the major to business while having a minor in AJ due to some advice I got from John C. Smith who is a retired police chief. If I don't go into law enforcement as planned I'll hopefully go into business. Maybe the gun trade. Who knows.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;16894529]I never set a limit on this thread so no, it's not the end quite yet.
Responding to Lineor, I'm currently majoring in Administration of Justice at a community college. But I'm planning on changing the major to business while having a minor in AJ due to some advice I got from John C. Smith who is a retired police chief. If I don't go into law enforcement as planned I'll hopefully go into business. Maybe the gun trade. Who knows.[/QUOTE]
Work for LWRC or Robinson Arms, companies that are actually innovating something :v:
[QUOTE=Oecleus;16890005]Why?
There is a reason we switched out service weapon to the smaller round..[/QUOTE]
Complying with NATO is one part, stopping power another.
The 7.62mm has more stopping power though. I thought the benefits of the 5.56mm was that it penetrated better through body armour, but didn't over penetrate and go through both the target, and the wall of the house were the innocent civilian is hiding that the target happened to be leaning against. And that the round was lighter so more ammunition could be carried.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;16892775]
It seemed nothing short of divine intervention would fix this problem.
Then John Browning stepped in. [/QUOTE]
Hahahaha Love the phrasing.
[QUOTE=Darkhorse01;16899262]The 7.62mm has more stopping power though. I thought the benefits of the 5.56mm was that it penetrated better through body armour, but didn't over penetrate and go through both the target, and the wall of the house were the innocent civilian is hiding that the target happened to be leaning against. And that the round was lighter so more ammunition could be carried.[/QUOTE]
The biggest reason for the adaptation of the 5.56 was in fully automatic assault rifles.
Hardly anyone on the planet can fire a lightweight 7.62 nato rifle with any kind of accuracy. (fully automatic, that is...)
war crazed kids
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16045514]I wouldn't waste money on collector's items.
They're just going lose value where as things like AR15s and any practical weapons will skyrocket when they end up banned soon.
Buy collector's items after the bans.[/QUOTE]
Haha what?
Yeah this panther arms AR-15 is going to be worth so much more money in 20 years as opposed to an M1 Garand from the korean war or a matching hex mosin sniper with MO markings. You are probably the same kind of guy who would have called all the matching german mausers "shit" back in the 70's.
[editline]10:08AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16899852]The biggest reason for the adaptation of the 5.56 was in fully automatic assault rifles.
Hardly anyone on the planet can fire a lightweight 7.62 nato rifle with any kind of accuracy.[/QUOTE]
All we are saying... Is give .30 cal a chance...
Come on brothers and sisters chant with me
Would you do an entry about Steyrs Scout/Elite? Not the 08 version please.
[QUOTE=Fekel Die Juden;16900194]Haha what?
Yeah this panther arms AR-15 is going to be worth so much more money in 20 years as opposed to an M1 Garand from the korean war or a matching hex mosin sniper with MO markings. You are probably the same kind of guy who would have called all the matching german mausers "shit" back in the 70's.
[/QUOTE]
DPMS isn't even worth shit now, aahhaha.
Demand always wins out over history value. Plus do you really think some old bolt action is going to be practical or useful any more in today's world? No, it's not.
The barrel isn't going to be the same as it was when it was new. And we can build semi-autos to out-shoot any bolt action now. That's why your average AR15 can shoot MOA if it isn't a total piece of shit off brand.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16901135]DPMS isn't even worth shit now, aahhaha.
Demand always wins out over history value. Plus do you really think some old bolt action is going to be practical or useful any more in today's world? No, it's not.
The barrel isn't going to be the same as it was when it was new. And we can build semi-autos to out-shoot any bolt action now. That's why your average AR15 can shoot MOA if it isn't a total piece of shit off brand.[/QUOTE]
Wait what? When did I say nigger tits mc bounce bounce vaj? Exactly, I didn't.
The joke was that DPMS was shit, thanks for ruining it for me. And I don't see how historical value would somehow pale in comparison to whats hot and whats not.
Do you think that because more people in the US want Prius' that the value of 69' GTO's is going to be less?
[QUOTE=Fekel Die Juden;16901250]Wait what? When did I say nigger tits mc bounce bounce vaj? Exactly, I didn't.
The joke was that DPMS was shit, thanks for ruining it for me. And I don't see how historical value would somehow pale in comparison to whats hot and whats not.
Do you think that because more people in the US want Prius' that the value of 69' GTO's is going to be less?[/QUOTE]
Except a mint 69 GTO is worth a fortune currently. A war relic rifle, even matching numbers doesn't come close to the value of any new modern assault rifle. Unless there's something else special about it.
Bad comparison. As soon as a mosin costs more than a FN FS2000, you'll have a valid point.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16901590]Except a mint 69 GTO is worth a fortune currently. A war relic rifle, even matching numbers doesn't come close to the value of any new modern assault rifle. Unless there's something else special about it.
Bad comparison. As soon as a mosin costs more than a FN FS2000, you'll have a valid point.[/QUOTE]
Mosin's were mass produced, when you look at other smaller produced yet popular WWII weapons the price rises signficantly.
But you won't lose this argument as you refuse to thing you would ever make a mistake..
[QUOTE=Oecleus;16901625]Mosin's were mass produced, when you look at other smaller produced yet popular WWII weapons the price rises signficantly.
But you won't lose this argument as you refuse to thing you would ever make a mistake..[/QUOTE]
Show me one off the shelf war relic rifle you'll find for $2k+ that isn't something that there was only like 10 ever made of, or some other ridiculous bit of history attached to it.
They're already 60 years old, they aren't going to go up much in value unless they become the new hot-item everyone in the gun community must have.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16901702]Show me one off the shelf war relic rifle you'll find for $2k+ that isn't something that there was only like 10 ever made of, or some other ridiculous bit of history attached to it.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure we're arguing that those guns with good history behind them are the ones better than modern day assault rifles.
[editline]12:42PM[/editline]
Better in price that is.
[editline]12:42PM[/editline]
Value rather again..
[editline]12:51PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;16901702]They're already 60 years old, they aren't going to go up much in value unless they become the new hot-item everyone in the gun community must have.[/QUOTE]
They're going to continue rising in value as guns get lost or damaged or modified past the original setup.
Just because not everyone wants one doesn't mean it isn't going to rise in value.
Ok, WW2 guns inherently will have a shitload of value, because they've stopped making 'em. Garands aren't valuable because they still make entire guns for the civ market.
One example of a gun that is already over 2k in value are all matching G43s in pristine condition. That shit's worth 3k easily. And they've built thousands of 'em.
On another note, a 7.62 NATO rifles can be controlled in full auto. Just need a good muzzle brake and a good pad on the buttstock. 5.56 NATO was created to make full auto significantly easier to control and so you could carry moar ammo. We still have AP ammo anyhow.
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