Fantastic Firearms Part 2 - General

I don't like the action of the pump-action rifles. It feels out of place.

[QUOTE=ksenior;16959524]Very popular in Australia as were not allowed semi-autos Getting one in the next few months So stop complaining about them being pointless You can also get them in 308 and 30.06 Police departments use them because there nearly identical to the Remington 800 shotgun thus they don't need to retrain them[/QUOTE] I'm complaining because it's just like: [img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/89/stupiduglysks.jpg[/img] It's stupid. The .30-06 carbine would be fun to maybe throw the other stock on, though.

[QUOTE=GunFox;16954338]Good god, how did I miss the USP in the first thread? Jesus those pistols are jokes. I like Glocks more than I do the USP and its bastard children. Pricetag and a lovely host of other problems aside, they weigh a fuckton. Smaller than the MK 23? Of course, but the compact variants weigh more than a fullsized 1911. Piece of shit combat pistol.[/QUOTE] i dunno, my USP shoots hella nice

[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;16960930]i dunno, my USP shoots hella nice[/QUOTE] What do you have to compare it to? And how comfortable is it for daily concealed carry without needing to wear multiple shirts?

[img]http://world.guns.ru/smg/type79smg.jpg[/img] Type 79 was definitely the coolest of them all

Heh, Terminator looking SMG. Just what I thought when I saw it.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16960654]I'm complaining because it's just like: [img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/89/stupiduglysks.jpg[/img] It's stupid. The .30-06 carbine would be fun to maybe throw the other stock on, though.[/QUOTE] That's an SKS

[QUOTE=ksenior;16967202]That's an SKS[/QUOTE] But it's a TACTICAL SKS :science:

[QUOTE=Thomas849;16969299]But it's a TACTICAL SKS :science:[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean it's any less fugly.

i think it's cute in an ironic way [editline]12:04AM[/editline] it's like an SKS saying "hai guys, i'm good too, look, see!"

[url]http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_rifle.php[/url] [img]http://www.para-usa.com/new/images/product_photo/rifle_300elarge.jpg[/img] Tasty, tasty AR-style rifle. What is up with the AR-style gas piston rifle craze?

[QUOTE=Guardian-Angel;16969786] What is up with the AR-style gas piston rifle craze?[/QUOTE] Idiots who will buy anything after they're told it's better. In reality it's just extra weight with no discernable improvement. Have fun paying $400+ in just parts to convert your rifle too. Pretty much the same as with the 6.8spc craze that hit too. Now you don't see that round hardly anywhere.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16971227]Idiots who will buy anything after they're told it's better. In reality it's just extra weight with no discernable improvement. Have fun paying $400+ in just parts to convert your rifle too. [/QUOTE] Relative. For a recreational shooter, you will see no discernable improvement. For a combat soldier, the difference is huge. But as usual, if the idea gains popularity in the military/LE market, then it gains stupid popularity in the civilian market for some strange reason.

[highlight]Warning, VERY long read. Make some popcorn.[/highlight] 103)Trapdoor Springfield [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Springfield_M1873_%22Trapdoor%22.jpg/800px-Springfield_M1873_%22Trapdoor%22.jpg[/img] After the Civil War the US army came to the realization that although it had fought against itself and won, the situation in its arsenals was a complete mess. The most common weapon in service was a .58 caliber muzzle-loading Springfield rifled musket. While powerful it lacked range and was a huge pain in the ass to reload. They also had a dizzying array of various rifles, some of them repeaters that implemented self-contained cartridges and proved themselves to be far superior in just about every way to the muzzle-loaders of the time. While designs such as the Spencer or Henry were clearly the best thing available at the time you have to remember that this is before the government spent recklessly. They had a budget and standardizing the arsenals by equipping everyone with the best of the best simply cost too much. It certainly couldn't be justified now that the war was over. In fact the only excuse they had to change anything was that the war had clearly shown that the musket was obsolete. They did want self-contained cartridges, but they didn't know how to keep it financially viable. In 1865 the answer came from their current manufacturer, Springfield. A brainchild of Erskine S. Allin rather than completely replacing the millions of .58 caliber guns available, why not retrofit them? Rather than spending 20$ on new rifles it cost only 5$ to machine open the breech and install a flap that hinged on the top of the barrel. This flap contained a firing pin which was set at a weird angle to use the existing hammer. Since you could reload faster you could achieve double the rate of fire of the musket it replaced. To reload you first cock the hammer to the first of two settings (which let you open the flap and served as a safety when reloading). When you flipped the flap or "trapdoor" open an extractor caught the rim of the casing, yanking it out if there was one in there. You then inserted another round, closed the flap and cocked the hammer all the way back. A self-contained cartridge was made for this modification called the .58-500-60 (meaning .58 caliber, bullet weighs 500 grains AKA an elephant gun and those 500 grains of fuck-you-up are propelled by 60 grains of black powder). While the idea was good and it was a cheap way of doing things they quickly realized that all the retrofit parts would wear out too fast and after only making a couple they pawned them off to civilians. In 1866 they made another attempt. This time the barrels were re-rifled to .50 caliber and the mechanisms that were added in the retrofit were significantly toughened up resulting in a far more reliable weapon that worked essentially the same way as the 1865 but with a longer service life and a more efficient .50-70 (70 grains of black powder that shoved a 450 grain .50 caliber bullet down the barrel, still an elephant gun) cartridge. Unlike the 1865 a reasonably large amount of these conversions were made, roughly 50,000+. They were not adopted by the army but they were used in various scuffles such as the Bozeman Trail clashes. In 1868 that was modernized again. This time it featured an entirely new barrel for every rifle. This made modification significantly more expensive but it worked far better. This too was not formally adopted although as many as another 50,000+ such conversions were made. By 1873 all these years of making relatively experimental conversions of muzzle-loaders resulted in a more or less finalized design. Now it used an even smaller, although still Goliath-sized .45-70 cartridge. The extractor problems were almost completely sorted out. The barrels were all new to better suit the cartridge, much like the 1868. Unlike all of its predecessors, the 1873 was finally adopted by the army and eventually 700,000 guns were modified to fill this contract. It was reliable in operation and as few as 5 soldiers could produce a volley of nearly continuous fire. An individual soldier could crank off about 20 rounds a minute which was like Rambo back in the day although nothing compared to the Winchester '73 which as its name implies was released the same year. That was essentially the Achilles heel. Because of the various repeaters gaining popularity at the time the 1873 Trapdoor Springfield was obsolete by the time it was adopted in spite of its relative ease of use and impressive power. It simply couldn't out-shoot a repeater such as the Winchester which it occasionally faced when it was put against Renegades, Bandits and Indians in the various battles the US army dragged these guns into. The most notable failure was the cartridge which was originally made of copper. Since that metal expands when it gets hot sometimes the casing essentially welded itself in the breach, rendering the gun useless. After the famous Battle of Little Big Horn it was found that this type of jam was a major contributing factor in that defeat, as a result the US army and just about everyone else has used brass-cased ammunition ever since. In spite of these glaring problems and its overall obsolescence this rifle remained in service almost until the turn of the century, seeing use in conflicts such as the Spanish-American War. Some were still in storage as late as WW1. But with the adoption of the bolt-action Krag and later Springfield 03 the Trapdoor was finally phased out and almost all such guns were pawned off to the public. By that time the .45-70 government cartridge had already become very popular with civilians as a hunting and defensive caliber. It and other massive calibers like it were used to decimate herds of buffalo, nearly bringing the species to extinction. This cartridge became so popular that even today manufacturers make guns in this caliber and the ammunition, while not as cheap as it once was, is still in production. Today an original trapdoor can run anywhere from 300-3000$ so they remain somewhat popular with nostalgic shooters and collectors. So yeah, it and all the various experimental production runs that came before it were essentially an exercise in futility from the first concepts to the moment it was replaced but it ultimately helped the US army tame the west and beyond.

Not to be too nitpicky, but (AFAIK) even today most cartridges are made from copper (alloys). The reason is simple, you gotta seal the firing chamber and the cartridge does exactly that. When the gunpowder goes off it expands more than the steel (alloy) chamber or barrel so it seals all the little nooks and crannies where the pressure could escape. After firing it cools down. One nifty thing is this allows you to put the cartridge in and pull it out with ease and still get a good seal. So what the Trapdoor Springfield probably suffered from isn't "copper cartridges" but improper machining/design tolerances. Another issue could be that for quite a while brass cartridges weren't solid-drawn from a single piece of alloy and therefore were subject to manufacturing problems. I know this may be well known to Bean-O, but to laymen the above expression could be misleading. In early muzzleloaders like the Minié rifle (which was extensively used in the Civil War) they had to use tricks to push the bullet through the rifled barrel. In this case the bullet had a smaller bore than the rifled barrel and a spike at the bottom of the barrel then "expanded the bullets bore" when the ramming rod pushed the bullet against it. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Minie_ball_design_harpers_ferry_burton.jpg/180px-Minie_ball_design_harpers_ferry_burton.jpg[/img] BTW: The Minié rifle is a good candidate for a fantastic firearm that changed history. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Prussian_Musket.jpg/800px-Prussian_Musket.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Flaser;16976403]Not to be too nitpicky, but (AFAIK) even today most cartridges are made from copper (alloys). text[/QUOTE] Modern cartridges are made from brass. FYI, basic physics, all things expand when heated.

Colt Python was pretty era inducing it had high fire power etc. Holy JESUS 577 TYRANNOSAUR The following data was developed in an A-SQUARE Hannibal model rifle. The rifle weighed 13.6 pounds. No effort was made to shoot it for group accuracy, as the whole purpose of this rifle is as a last resort stopper for animals that are intent on changing the make up of your anatomy! Suffice to say that all groups with all powder charges, at various velocities, went into a group of approximately 8 inches, at 100 yards, with the majority of the higher velocity loads grouping in less than 3 inches! This is fantastic accuracy for a rifle of this power, with open sights. We could not approach the published velocities in the excellent A-SQUARE reloading manual, with their listed powders. As an example, they listed 177.5 grains of Reloader 19 for a velocity of 2473 fps. We used 178 grains of our lot of Reloader 19 and only managed to get 2283 fps. That is almost 200 fps less! Their data was apparently developed in a barrel of 26 inches, while ours measured only 23 inches. Still, this is no criticism of A-SQUARE, it just shows the differences you might get by using different rifles and different lots of powder. In the velocity department, we were able to increase the velocity to over 100 fps more than the maximum published by A-SQUARE, by using a powder they did not use. There was no sign of excessive pressure at all, in fact, we think that 2600 fps is quite feasible in this rifle without too much trouble – except recoil! We only stopped because we ran out of bullets! And talking of recoil, this rifle has is it in spades! Admittedly, it is fitted with the A-SQUARE Coil-Check stock, which has three mercury reducers and the pad area is significantly larger than a normal stock. Both of these modifications to the stock will help reduce recoil. Still, any cartridge that produces over 11,000 foot pounds of energy is going to give you a good whalop. And I guarantee you, you are not going to be disappointed! Credit must be given to A-SQUARE for designing and bringing out a number of very high velocity cartridges in their caliber, like the 300 PEGASUS and the 338 EXCALIBUR. Also they produce factory ammo for many wildcats and old cartridges. We have one of their HANNIBAL rifles in 300 PEGASUS here for load development. As soon as our testing is complete, we will put it up on the site. I have a Ruger #1 rechambered for the 460 Weatherby magnum, and a Dakota 76 custom rifle chambered for a wildcat cartridge based on the 416 Rigby case necked up to 475. The recoil of the 577 Tyrannosaur at velocities of 2150 fps and below is comparable to the above mentioned rifles. Once the velocity gets to 2400 fps, then the recoil is very severe. And at our maximum of 2581 fps, it is plain painful! Personally, I would take my chances with a charging elephant or buffalo armed with a 460 Weatherby magnum, or even a lesser cartridge like the 375 H&H magnum, rather than the 577 Tyrannosaur. I know I would be scared of the recoil! Also, please bare in mind that WHERE you place the bullet is more important than the SIZE of the bullet! I have shot a number of elephants, and dozens of cape buffalo. Most of them with a 375 caliber wildcat based on the 404 Jeffery. The majority of them are one shot kills, and according to my professional hunter, with over 30 years of guiding, they do not seem to go any further than when shot with larger caliber rifles. We have a HEYM bolt action rifle chambered for the 600 Nitro Express cartridge. We are still waiting for our supply of bullets, and as soon as we get them, we will try to develop some loads for it. It would be interesting to see this cartridge performs in a bolt action rifle. We used the Federal 215 primer, and the Barnes monolithic solid 750 grain bullet, and the overall cartridge length was 3.710 inches.

What the fuck is that massive wall of post?

[QUOTE=professional;16973429]Relative. For a recreational shooter, you will see no discernable improvement. For a combat soldier, the difference is huge. But as usual, if the idea gains popularity in the military/LE market, then it gains stupid popularity in the civilian market for some strange reason.[/QUOTE] How many M4s and M16s are currently fielded with piston drive conversions? Because I haven't heard of any. [editline]10:36AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zambies!;16976589] We used the Federal 215 primer, and the Barnes monolithic solid 750 grain bullet, and the overall cartridge length was 3.710 inches.[/QUOTE] What difference does the primer makes in OAL?... You just sound like you quoted a bunch of things you don't understand. At my last job A-Square actually ordered a lot of packaging designs from us...

[QUOTE=Flaser;16976403]Not to be too nitpicky, but (AFAIK) even today most cartridges are made from copper (alloys). [/QUOTE] But brass IS a copper alloy.

A-Cat 72 [img]http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q193/jvandiveer/my_space/lolcats/lolcat_terrorist.jpg[/img] The Egyptians have always feared and respected cats, now we know why. Also, you all make me sick you sad, sad fucks. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Spammer" - cosmic duck))[/highlight]

Lol i wanna shoot that cat with a 50cal

[QUOTE=Wittmann;16981338]Lol i wanna shoot that cat with a 50cal[/QUOTE] there would be no more cat.

aye

[img]http://www.inokatsu.com/mmc/images/products/amd65.jpg[/img] AMD65 Please, I own one in real life. Ah Beautiful 7.62x39mm Wulf hollow points and 6 25 round magazines. I just love this Hungarian shit. [editline]04:30AM[/editline] [QUOTE=redonkulous;16950487]So I'm browsing some guns online and I come upon this. I'd have to say I was struck aback with its awesome. [img]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/ruger/ruger_4901.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Bah I hate those things, stupid rifles with sawed off stocks and shorter barrels. [editline]04:37AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Bean-O;16934111]Ok story time. I have had a day at the firing range where almost everything that could have gone wrong did and it is perhaps the most fun I have ever had. I picked up that 1943 Nagant I talked about eariler with the help of one of my friends and we decided to go shooting with it, just to see if it would function at all. What I completely forgot about is the fact that this gun is from 1943 and therefore it needs to be cleaned before you can use it. But anyway, we show up there with the Nagant, tons of ammo, my Ruger, very little ammo for that and a lever-action Daisy air rifle. The centerfire lanes are all full so they put us on the waiting list, in the meantime we set up at the rimfire area. There I open up the box containing my Ruger and discover that I left the key to the trigger lock at home. I borrowed a paperclip from the rangemaster to try and pick it, but to no avail. So we figure since we don't have much ammo anyway we will fill our time pelting at a target with the air rifle. Good plan. But the bench we are assigned to got stolen by someone else. After this was brought up a rangemaster set us up with another one. We waited for a ceasefire and then set up a target. We then spent the next 20 or so minutes pelting at this thing. At the next ceasefire we came to the realization that the BBs failed to penetrate the paper. They were bouncing off the whole time. So that was about half an hour wasted. We then quickly rushed to another bench in the centerfire section and set up the Nagant target. I was finally going to get a chance to find out if the Nagant works or not. The answer was quite simply no. I chambered a round and the bolt wouldn't lock all the way down. I pulled it back to realize that the bullet was stuck. So again, I had to bug the rangemaster. By now having dealt with the debacle at the rimfire section he was getting quite tired of dealing with my problems. He got a rod to poke the bullet out from the front and I set upon desperately trying to clean up my gun so I could shoot it. Using a cleaning kit that I had so thoughtfully remembered to bring with me I attacked the cosmoline-encrusted relic. The chamber was really filthy. Gobs of the stuff, some of it solidified came out. Pretty much anything that touched the inside of my gun came out covered in a greenish, yellow black film of partially solidified grime. I know this gun is mismatched, the bluing is gone and the sights are dinged but when I bought this thing I was not expecting this kind of trouble. The rangemaster gives a 2-minute warning, meaning there would be a ceasefire soon. So I rushed like a Maniac to clean this thing up. I make it just in time, place it on the table and step behind the yellow line. So the entire last half-hour I took up a slot at the range with people on waiting lists trying to use it and during this time I successfully fired exactly 0 shots. The rangemaster was beginning to get pissed off with us. So everyone goes back to shooting and I try to chamber another round. Nope, same problem. I assume the gun is jammed the same way again so I call the rangemaster to bring the bore rod. Right when he gets all the way over to where I am the round somehow manages to tumble out by itself. At this point I got the realization that I was trying this guy's patience. In retaliation he walks over to the BB rifle which we had moved to the centerfire area and shakes it. He tells me that it is loaded and that is against the rules, air rifle or not. So now I have to scramble to clean up my gun again while painstakingly unloading a Red Ryder BB gun that is simply not designed to be unloaded. Halfway through that task, with the pissed-off rangemaster distracted I give up and go back to the Nagant. At this point I have a round chambered and I am just hammering the bolt, trying to shove it down. Eventually it gives way and locks in place. [img]http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/500/729_1242618977342.jpg[/img] I couldn't believe it finally worked. I sat down, lined up a shot and pulled the trigger. The first thing I realized is that even with my hearing protection I couldn't hear anything for about a full second. Then I realized that my shoulder hurt. A lot. The gun hadn't exploded. But the recoil by itself was fierce. I was later told that all the oil create much more resistance in the barrel, severely increasing the recoil. The bullet had completely missed the target and landed somewhere in Japan for all I know but I was happy. The gun fired. It takes 45 minutes of work to hammer the bolt closed, the sights are kilometers off and I need a chiropractor but the gun fired. I repeated the painstaking process of cambering another round so that my friend who had so generously provided a ride all the way to Mountain View and back. He sat down, pulled the trigger and was almost ripped from his seat. But in spite of a new red mark on his shoulder, similar to mine he had the biggest freaking grin on his face. So I loaded another round, fired another shot after readjusting the sights (which it turns out were set to 400 yards) fired again and I think I actually hit the target. Then I let my friend have another go. But after he fired off a shot there was another ceasefire. At that point we decided that our shoulders had enough punishment and that the rifle definitely needed cleaning. We checked the target to find that it had but one hole in it and a giant gash torn out of the wooden post on the left side. This gun is a wreck, but for 100$ I got my money's worth since it actually fires. And we both decided to go home having spent roughly 6$ a shot for admission because we each fired a total of 2 rounds today. We got our shoulders rearranged twice, we unintentionally pissed off a rangemaster, I realized that the gun I bought is a total piece of shit and that I am a dumbass, but damn did we have a lot of fun. After being dropped off I set upon cleaning up my gun. I attacked it with everything I had. I was scooping just about handfulls of solidified cosmoline (which looks a lot like snot but smells much worse) out of every orifice this gun had, every swab I passed through the barrel was turned a shade of black resembling crude oil with one or two passes. After hours of work I think the gun is now relatively clean. Then I found something that just totally made my day. Checking how much money I had left I found the key to my Ruger in my wallet. It was with me the whole freaking time. All in all I must say this has been a really crazy day. But like I said in the beginning, while just about everything went wrong it is the most fun I have ever had.[/QUOTE] Yea you def. need to clean out the Nagants, my M91/30 had tons of Cosmoline in it which is the Soviets way of punishing you for using their weapons I guess :P. If you are having sticky bolt issues what I usually do is make sure the gun is unloaded and slam the bolt against a table a few times and get it going good, if there is any excessive coldness where you shoot at then I'd get a new bolt, or a newer Nagant.

[QUOTE=Muf;16994741][img]http://www.inokatsu.com/mmc/images/products/amd65.jpg[/img] AMD65 Please, I own one in real life. Ah Beautiful 7.62x39mm Wulf hollow points and 6 25 round magazines. I just love this Hungarian shit. [/QUOTE] That would be covered under the AK-47 series in article one, although not directly mentioned. Also that is a pic of an airsoft gun. I know of Inokatsu too. They charge a lot of money for their guns. It would probably cost twice what the real steel is worth in the states. I can never understand why anyone would pay more than 200-300$ for any airsoft gun no matter how awesome it is. That isn't to say airsoft sucks, I own several, even one in that 200-300$ range. But it is just an airsoft gun. No reason for it to cost more than the real steel unless you actually live in Asia. That I could understand.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16996237]That would be covered under the AK-47 series in article one, although not directly mentioned. Also that is a pic of an airsoft gun. I know of Inokatsu too. They charge a lot of money for their guns. It would probably cost twice what the real steel is worth in the states. I can never understand why anyone would pay more than 200-300$ for any airsoft gun no matter how awesome it is. That isn't to say airsoft sucks, I own several, even one in that 200-300$ range. But it is just an airsoft gun. No reason for it to cost more than the real steel unless you actually live in Asia. That I could understand.[/QUOTE] Yea I paid 650 for my real gun. Mine also has a 16.5 inch barrel because anything below like 16 inches where I live is a concealed firearm. I can still conceal it in a backpack though.

[QUOTE=Muf;16996405]Yea I paid 650 for my real gun. Mine also has a 16.5 inch barrel because anything below like 16 inches where I live is a concealed firearm. I can still conceal it in a backpack though.[/QUOTE] God, that's the biggest load of shit I've ever heard in any law.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;16960944]What do you have to compare it to? And how comfortable is it for daily concealed carry without needing to wear multiple shirts?[/QUOTE] he is 16, i doubt he needs to carry it with him

104)Martini-Henry [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Martini-Henry_1867.jpg/800px-Martini-Henry_1867.jpg[/img] Seeking to steal the contract for the standard service rifle of the US army from Springfield a New England man named Henry Peabody devised a rifle very similar in operation to the Sharps in the 1860s. To open the action you had to move an extension of the trigger forward. This dropped a falling block allowing one to insert a cartridge. Then a hammer had to be cocked before the gun could be fired. While not a bad design it was turned down for the significantly cheaper trapdoor conversions. compared to the Sharps which it at very least imitated one can't say that Peabody did a bad job. In fact it worked just as well if not better. Having failed to secure the US contract Peabody went abroad. Numerous countries tested his design before it caught the eye of Frederich von Martini (not to be confused with the popular alcoholic beverage by the same name) during Swiss army testing. He owned a company that made lace. But being a handyman he saw a flaw in Peabody's design Martini replaced the exposed hammer with an internal striker that cocked itself during operation, thus somewhat improving the rate of fire. Martini sent this gun to the Brits for testing in 1867 where it was well received. The officers tasked with selecting a new rifle for military service were impressed with the action but less than enthusiastic with the rifling. They turned to Benjamin Henry, maker of the Henry rifle to do the rifling. During testing they found that the gun was quite reliable enough and could achieve roughly 20 rounds per minute. Having determined that this gun could do what they wanted it to do the British began issuing them in 1871. Those guns were issued in a caliber called .577/450 which referred to the straight-necked .577 cartridge used in a previous single-shot Snider-Enfield which was necked down to .45 in the cartridge used by the Martini-Henry. This weapons effectiveness in the field turned out to be iffy. The conflict for which it is best known would be the first Zulu war, specifically the Battle of Rourke's Drift where 150 men used them to beat back seemingly endless hordes of Zulu warriors. More impressively some were armed with Martini-Henry rifles that, less impressively, were captures as the result of a staggering loss at Isandlwana just prior. In that battle it was found that the rolled brass-foil cartridges made to cut costs fouled up the action, making the process of working the gun needlessly difficult or sometimes rendering it useless altogether. That was quite an embarrassment. This problem would be rectified by the time the second Zulu war came around due to properly made drawn brass cartridges. But by then the Martini-Henry had a bigger flaw. Overall obsolescence. One of the major combatants was a group of wily Dutch settlers armed with bolt-action Mauser rifles. Since they could achieve much greater rates of fire they decimated British troops prompting a call for the British to adopt a bolt-action rifle of their own in 1888 called the Lee-Metford. This gun would later evolve into the SMLE. But the Martini-Henry had left its mark. As the standard service weapon of the British armed forces and their colonies over a million were made and used in colonial scuffles the world over. In fact it wasn't until the early 1900's that they were completely phased out of service. By that time not only did various civilian variants sprout up (including shotguns and various .22 rifles, such guns were made well into the 1960's) but so did copies. The most prolific being Khyber Pass rip-offs which were of poor quality but were detailed down to the stampings and markings. Their origin is largely tied to British influence in the region but interestingly some were fielded by Afghan tribesmen against the Soviet invasion in the 1980's.