Fantastic Firearms Part 2 - General

Just came back from the firing range. Shot 63 out of 70 points :smugdog:

Woo Martini Henry :) Thanks. Good read.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16974157][highlight]Warning, VERY long read. Make some popcorn.[/highlight] 103)Trapdoor Springfield [/QUOTE] [img]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd264/thebitterlegion/Macros/Gifs/Jackson_popcorn.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Wittmann;16998132]Just came back from the firing range. Shot 63 out of 70 points :smugdog:[/QUOTE] Well fuck your shit.

Actually I'm 20. One more year and I can get my CCL and begin purchasing Pistols. Also here in Virginia due to Virgina Tech we aren't allowed to shoot targets shaped like Humans. People still do it though. The gun shows are amazing here too. Last time I went to my local dealer he had a .50AE Black Desert Eagle and a .44 Magnum Silver Desert Eagle. Also he has numerous AK47s/M4s/AR15s/Galils/ Oh yes and one time he had both an FN2000 and an FNP90. I ordered my AMD off gun broker though.

[QUOTE=Muf;17003296]Actually I'm 20. One more year and I can get my CCL and begin purchasing Pistols. Also here in Virginia due to Virgina Tech we aren't allowed to shoot targets shaped like Humans. People still do it though. The gun shows are amazing here too. Last time I went to my local dealer he had a .50AE Black Desert Eagle and a .44 Magnum Silver Desert Eagle. Also he has numerous AK47s/M4s/AR15s/Galils/ Oh yes and one time he had both an FN2000 and an FNP90. I ordered my AMD off gun broker though.[/QUOTE] As far as Desert Eagles go they are a fun conversation piece and quite fun to shoot but avoid .50AE because it is a wildcat round and therefore a bit tough to come by. In general you'd be better off with a revolver because the gas system needs very regular cleaning. The cool thing however is that you can swap calibers. Beware of the P90 too, the ammo is easier to find than .50AE but it can still be a hassle to get. The Galils are also iffy. The one you are probably looking at is one of those Century Arms Golani rifles. The guns themselves are fine but the mags are complete garbage from what I heard. Still, that is a lot more interesting than what the store in my area has. The few scary-looking guns have been neutered to comply with Californian laws. Other than that they have mostly hunting rifles/shotguns because those hadn't been banned yet, one or two home defense shotguns, some milsurp guns (Nagant, Mauser, Spanish Mauser, M1 Carbine, M1 Garand) and a relatively vast selection of handguns although all the wonder-nines like the Glocks and Berettas aren't as good when limited to 10 rounds. You'd be better off with a revolver, a compact or a .45ACP under that limitation.

CETME Ameli and the Type 92 "Woodpecker" are good candidates for articles. Were the Browning .303's used on British aircraft in the 2WW variants of the M1919/7 Browning or a different design? And what's the INSAS like as a rifle. Its served the Indians fine for many years. I think it is an G3, AK and M16 Cross.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;16996775]104)Martini-Henry [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Martini-Henry_1867.jpg/800px-Martini-Henry_1867.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] It should also be noted that Martini Henry rifles were used in WW1 with a specialized incendiary round to shoot down enemy zeppelins. [editline]02:07PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Darkhorse01;17005852]CETME Ameli and the Type 92 "Woodpecker" are good candidates for articles. [/QUOTE] The CETME Ameli doesn't really deserve an article, but the CETME Modelo B definitely needs an article seeing as it was the rifle that HK copied for their G3.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;17004810] Beware of the P90 too, the ammo is easier to find than .50AE but it can still be a hassle to get. [/QUOTE] I get tired of hearing this. Just because you can't buy 5.7 at walmart doesn't mean it's hard to get. It's cheaper and easier to find than .45acp in my area. I bought a box of 250 awhile back online too, easy... I just wouldn't recomend the P90 because it's pointless when you can just get the five seven pistol. If you want a carbine in the $1500-1700 price range, an AR15 is much MUCH better.

[QUOTE=Muf;16996405]Yea I paid 650 for my real gun. Mine also has a 16.5 inch barrel because anything below like 16 inches where I live is a concealed firearm. I can still conceal it in a backpack though.[/QUOTE] If you live in the US, then it would fall under the classification of a short-barreled rifle. I dunno if that's what you meant though because I guess SBRs are SBRs cause they're concealable. [editline]02:37AM[/editline] [QUOTE=DrMortician;17006842]I get tired of hearing this. Just because you can't buy 5.7 at walmart doesn't mean it's hard to get. It's cheaper and easier to find than .45acp in my area. I bought a box of 250 awhile back online too, easy... I just wouldn't recomend the P90 because it's pointless when you can just get the five seven pistol. If you want a carbine in the $1500-1700 price range, an AR15 is much MUCH better.[/QUOTE] man some people just want guns to have guns, it doesn't always have to be about what's practical and what will get you through the apocalypse the P90 is a fun little gun and the ammo isn't as expensive anymore relative to .223 or .45, although if I had a P90, I'd pay the 200$ to chop the barrel down

[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;17013829] man some people just want guns to have guns, it doesn't always have to be about what's practical and what will get you through the apocalypse the P90 is a fun little gun and the ammo isn't as expensive anymore relative to .223 or .45[/QUOTE] It's just ridiculously expensive for what it is, and how limited it is. (this coming from an FN fan boy) $21 a magazine doesn't sound very fun for a plinker either. Especially with a retarded 16" barrel on it, which defeats the small niche purpose it had to begin with.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;17006100]It should also be noted that Martini Henry rifles were used in WW1 with a specialized incendiary round to shoot down enemy zeppelins. [editline]02:07PM[/editline] The CETME Ameli doesn't really deserve an article, but the CETME Modelo B definitely needs an article seeing as it was the rifle that HK copied for their G3.[/QUOTE] haha no shit that's pretty out there [editline]02:40AM[/editline] [QUOTE=DrMortician;17013890]It's just ridiculously expensive for what it is, and how limited it is. Especially with a retarded 16" barrel on it, which defeats the small niche purpose it had to begin with.[/QUOTE] I won't disagree that it's expensive, but there's really nothing out there to compete with it besides the AR57 the barrel is retarded but you can always chop it off if you pay for the tax stamp

[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;17013899] I won't disagree that it's expensive, but there's really nothing out there to compete with it besides the AR57 the barrel is retarded but you can always chop it off if you pay for the tax stamp[/QUOTE] You can buy it as an SBR straight from FN, chopping the barrel is bo-jank. You can also buy SBR barrels for it. The AR57 is pretty silly, I wouldn't consider it to be any kind of competition at all. The P90 is a much better made weapon.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;17014005]You can buy it as an SBR straight from FN, chopping the barrel is bo-jank. You can also buy SBR barrels for it. The AR57 is pretty silly, I wouldn't consider it to be any kind of competition at all. The P90 is a much better made weapon.[/QUOTE] well you were the one suggesting people get an ar15 and the ar57 is a 5.7 upper for the ar15 sooo it's competition in that it's a 5.7 rifle, besides, the way it uses the magwell as a ejection port is pretty TITE

Got anything on the Russian grenade launcher attachment for their rifles?

[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;17014170]well you were the one suggesting people get an ar15 and the ar57 is a 5.7 upper for the ar15 sooo it's competition in that it's a 5.7 rifle, besides, the way it uses the magwell as a ejection port is pretty TITE[/QUOTE] Yea, but the 5.7 round is what makes the P90 kind of a meh platform. So putting it in an inferior weapon makes it even worse. The P90 ejects out where you'd normally put a magazine in a bullpup, too. They should make a P90 in 10mm or something, if possible. Damn that'd be mean.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;17014483]Yea, but the 5.7 round is what makes the P90 kind of a meh platform. So putting it in an inferior weapon makes it even worse. The P90 ejects out where you'd normally put a magazine in a bullpup, too. They should make a P90 in 10mm or something, if possible. Damn that'd be mean.[/QUOTE] The reason why it ejects there, though is so the weapon can be ambidextrous and to prevent the cases from flying into anyone else's face.

105)Smith and Wesson #3 [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/S%26W_New_Nodel_3_Frontier_1791.jpg/800px-S%26W_New_Nodel_3_Frontier_1791.jpg[/img] Designed in 1870 this revolver predated the famous Colt Single Action Army (AKA Peacemaker) which would go on to eclipse it in both military service and civilian sales, but never the less the #3 proved to be a very popular design earning both fame and infamy for its service in the hands of larger-than-life characters such as Billy the Kid, Jesse James, John Wesley Hardin, Virgil Earp and Theodore Roosevelt. The gun itself is a single action revolver (cock, shoot, cock) that unlike most other such revolvers at the time fired a self-contained cartridge which meant it could be reloaded much faster. Another key feature is the top-break action. The barrel and cylinder assembly are on a hinge. When the top is opened this assembly hinges open and at the same time extracts all the cartridges. This process meant the #3 could be reloaded much faster than its nemesis, the gate-loaded Colt. But on the other hand unless you fired off all 6 shots before reloading you would be dropping precious ammo on the ground. On top of the civilian market there were two major customers. The most famous is known as the "Russian Model". In fact there are three different Russian models. All were made to fill a contract with Imperial Russia. Originally the #3 was made in .44 S&W American. But the export versions were made in .44 Russian which is slightly larger. Indeed it is the precursor to the .44 Special which fathered the .44 Magnum later on. But that is another story. Originally the caliber was the only major difference, but after the initial batch arrived the Russian ordinance inspectors requested a few minor alterations. The 2nd version would later become known as the Old Model Russian (whereas the first is the Old, Old Model Russian). By contrast the New Model Russian became the version Russia finally adopted before blatantly ripping S&W off. By this point it differed from the very first #3 in not only the caliber but also a distinctive "hook" near the rear of the trigger guard. After roughly 100,000+ such guns were delivered Imperial Russia reverse-engineered the design and built some locally and licensing production in other European nations. They refused to accept further shipments, temporarily flooding the US market with numerous unsold Russian Models and in doing so (alongside other black powder .44 caliber handgun cartridges) helped create a niche in the American firearm market that ultimately created the .44 Special. The worst part of this betrayal was that the Czarist government refused payment for the guns that were delivered which severely hurt S&W and would have killed it outright if it wasn't for a bigger, more lucrative contract. Before the Czar ever garnered any interest in issuing such weapons to his troops the US army wanted them. In fact they adopted the #3 in the original .44 S&W American the year it was released, making it the first sidearm adopted by the US army that used a self-containing cartridge. When they later adopted the .45 Colt they wanted a new version that chambered the same round. But rather than using the .45 Long Colt, S&W made their own slightly shorter .45 Schofield (AKA .45 S&W). It was quickly found that the smaller round wasn't interchangeable with the .45LC. The Colt revolvers could actually fire both, so the US army adopted the ammunition while the troops in the field preferred to carry the Colt which could fire it as well as the entire inventory of leftover .45LC ammo. This went on until the 1880's when production finally stopped. The Army continued to use #3s all the way up until the Spanish American War. After that was over the Army sold their inventory to the civilian market. By that time almost a million were manufactured for both the military contracts as well as civilian versions in the original .44 S&W American, .44-40, the .41 Henry Rifle round, .32-44, .38-44 and numerous others. While it didn't leave the legacy that its nemesis, the Colt SAA, did the #3 and all of its variants did leave their mark. For a time they not only gave Colt a run for their money but they were in fact on top. The hinge system was later copied by designs such as the Webley. But the interesting part is that production had resumed anew. Numerous manufacturers such as Uberti have started making period-accurate replicas and in 2000 S&W made a replica version of their own. I'm not sure if they currently manufacture it.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;17015743]105)Smith and Wesson #3 [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/S%26W_New_Nodel_3_Frontier_1791.jpg/800px-S%26W_New_Nodel_3_Frontier_1791.jpg[/img] Designed in 1870 this revolver predated the famous Colt Single Action Army (AKA Peacemaker) which would go on to eclipse it in both military service and civilian sales, but never the less the #3 proved to be a very popular design earning both fame and infamy for its service in the hands of larger-than-life characters such as Billy the Kid, Jesse James, John Wesley Hardin, Virgil Earp and Theodore Roosevelt. The gun itself is a single action revolver (cock, shoot, cock) that unlike most other such revolvers at the time fired a self-contained cartridge which meant it could be reloaded much faster. Another key feature is the top-break action. The barrel and cylinder assembly are on a hinge. When the top is opened this assembly hinges open and at the same time extracts all the cartridges. This process meant the #3 could be reloaded much faster than its nemesis, the gate-loaded Colt. But on the other hand unless you fired off all 6 shots before reloading you would be dropping precious ammo on the ground. On top of the civilian market there were two major customers. The most famous is known as the "Russian Model". In fact there are three different Russian models. All were made to fill a contract with Imperial Russia. Originally the #3 was made in .44 S&W American. But the export versions were made in .44 Russian which is slightly larger. Indeed it is the precursor to the .44 Special which fathered the .44 Magnum later on. But that is another story. Originally the caliber was the only major difference, but after the initial batch arrived the Russian ordinance inspectors requested a few minor alterations. The 2nd version would later become known as the Old Model Russian (whereas the first is the Old, Old Model Russian). By contrast the New Model Russian became the version Russia finally adopted before blatantly ripping S&W off. By this point it differed from the very first #3 in not only the caliber but also a distinctive "hook" near the rear of the trigger guard. After roughly 100,000+ such guns were delivered Imperial Russia reverse-engineered the design and built some locally and licensing production in other European nations. They refused to accept further shipments, temporarily flooding the US market with numerous unsold Russian Models and in doing so (alongside other black powder .44 caliber handgun cartridges) helped create a niche in the American firearm market that ultimately created the .44 Special. The worst part of this betrayal was that the Czarist government refused payment for the guns that were delivered which severely hurt S&W and would have killed it outright if it wasn't for a bigger, more lucrative contract. Before the Czar ever garnered any interest in issuing such weapons to his troops the US army wanted them. In fact they adopted the #3 in the original .44 S&W American the year it was released, making it the first sidearm adopted by the US army that used a self-containing cartridge. When they later adopted the .45 Colt they wanted a new version that chambered the same round. But rather than using the .45 Long Colt, S&W made their own slightly shorter .45 Schofield (AKA .45 S&W). It was quickly found that the smaller round wasn't interchangeable with the .45LC. The Colt revolvers could actually fire both, so the US army adopted the ammunition while the troops in the field preferred to carry the Colt which could fire it as well as the entire inventory of leftover .45LC ammo. This went on until the 1880's when production finally stopped. The Army continued to use #3s all the way up until the Spanish American War. After that was over the Army sold their inventory to the civilian market. By that time almost a million were manufactured for both the military contracts as well as civilian versions in the original .44 S&W American, .44-40, the .41 Henry Rifle round, .32-44, .38-44 and numerous others. While it didn't leave the legacy that its nemesis, the Colt SAA, did the #3 and all of its variants did leave their mark. For a time they not only gave Colt a run for their money but they were in fact on top. The hinge system was later copied by designs such as the Webley. But the interesting part is that production had resumed anew. Numerous manufacturers such as Uberti have started making period-accurate replicas and in 2000 S&W made a replica version of their own. I'm not sure if they currently manufacture it.[/QUOTE] Pew Pew?

[QUOTE=Bean-O;17015743]105)Smith and Wesson #3 [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/S%26W_New_Nodel_3_Frontier_1791.jpg/800px-S%26W_New_Nodel_3_Frontier_1791.jpg[/img] [/QUOTE] Never thought that was as sexy as other revolver designs. But good article, like always.

What was the first revolver to have a the cylinder pop out instead of opening up the whole gun?

It's very crude looking. I kind of like that. Neat gun. What would you guys prefer? One of these or the peacemaker? For a cowboy shoot out of course.

Several people back in the day preferred the #3 because it could be reloaded much faster. You had access to all the 6 chambers in the cylinder at the same time and it automatically extracted all the casings when you did that. That's why Billy the Kid, John Wesley Hardin, Virgil Earp, etc. used them. There were two flaws. One, it dumped any ammo you had left which isn't too bad since you should have plenty more on you and firefights usually don't last all that long. Two, the hinge locking mechanism occasionally broke. One famous outlaw (I think it might have been Billy but I'm not sure since I heard this a long time ago) had one with a busted hinge lock and he used it throughout his career even though he had to hold the barrel, cylinder assembly in place with his left hand when he fired it, otherwise it would open and dump all of his ammunition.

Do an article on the Gewehr 1888, used by the Germans and Turks (used primarily by the Turks, but when Gew 98s were in short supply in the beginning of the war, the Germans used a large amount of 88 Gewehrs) in WW1 and WW2.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;17004810]As far as Desert Eagles go they are a fun conversation piece and quite fun to shoot but avoid .50AE because it is a wildcat round and therefore a bit tough to come by. In general you'd be better off with a revolver because the gas system needs very regular cleaning. The cool thing however is that you can swap calibers. Beware of the P90 too, the ammo is easier to find than .50AE but it can still be a hassle to get. The Galils are also iffy. The one you are probably looking at is one of those Century Arms Golani rifles. The guns themselves are fine but the mags are complete garbage from what I heard. Still, that is a lot more interesting than what the store in my area has. The few scary-looking guns have been neutered to comply with Californian laws. Other than that they have mostly hunting rifles/shotguns because those hadn't been banned yet, one or two home defense shotguns, some milsurp guns (Nagant, Mauser, Spanish Mauser, M1 Carbine, M1 Garand) and a relatively vast selection of handguns although all the wonder-nines like the Glocks and Berettas aren't as good when limited to 10 rounds. You'd be better off with a revolver, a compact or a .45ACP under that limitation.[/QUOTE] Couldn't agree with you more. When I turn 21 I plan on buying a Beretta M9 and possibly an H&K USP .40, surprisingly the gun dealer I go to only had one H&K USP last time I went. If I fail to get an H&K USP .40, I will pick out one of the 50 .45ACP Colt 1911s he had.. I really am keeping my eye on the Galil though, or soon I might purchase a Dragunov off gunbroker.com. What I really dream of getting though is the Civilian H&K UMP, the USC.

[QUOTE=Muf;17034374]What I really dream of getting though is the Civilian H&K UMP, the USC.[/QUOTE] WTF why?

[QUOTE=professional;17035022]WTF why?[/QUOTE] its good in counerstitrke i dunno lol

How about some FN guns?

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17035314]its good in counerstitrke i dunno lol[/QUOTE] When I used it, I sucked, but I'm rarely play counterstrike.

[QUOTE=camper182;17035460]How about some FN guns?[/QUOTE] Fantastic FN guns: FN 49 FN FAL FN MAG Browning High Power That's it. All of which are on the list already.