[QUOTE=Oecleus;17162062]$900-$1200 is not bad at all for an automatic gun that is pretty much an upgrade from the mp5.[/QUOTE]
Automatic?
H&K, to my knowledge, does not sell automatic firearms in the US outside of the military and/or Class 3 restrictions and all that mumbo jumbo.
I've seen G3s, SL8s, USCs, and several MP5s, all of them were semi only, and excluding the G3, all of them were at the very least $1,200. Their USPs also go for more than they should, haven't seen em drop below $900 around here for a long time.
[QUOTE=massn7;17162261]Automatic?
H&K, to my knowledge, does not sell automatic firearms in the US outside of the military and/or Class 3 restrictions and all that mumbo jumbo.
I've seen G3s, SL8s, USCs, and several MP5s, all of them were semi only, and excluding the G3, all of them were at the very least $1,200. Their USPs also go for more than they should, haven't seen em drop below $900 around here for a long time.[/QUOTE]
Since when are we talking about civilian only weapons?
[QUOTE=massn7;17162261]Automatic?
H&K, to my knowledge, does not sell automatic firearms in the US outside of the military and/or Class 3 restrictions and all that mumbo jumbo.
I've seen G3s, SL8s, USCs, and several MP5s, all of them were semi only, and excluding the G3, all of them were at the very least $1,200. Their USPs also go for more than they should, haven't seen em drop below $900 around here for a long time.[/QUOTE]
He's not talking about civilians.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;17162436]He's not talking about civilians.[/QUOTE]
My mistake then, read it wrong.
Is it possible to have a 12 gauge that is tightly packed into a cylinder using only pyramids glued around a sabot? If it would work it would cause a lot more tissue damage when it breaks apart in the target.
Ok, I was just curious on how practical the UMP is. I'm not buying one or anything.
It's probably decent if you want a .45 SMG, but since the MP5 is more widespread, the parts are more available and therefore it makes the weapon more practical.
[QUOTE=Oecleus;17162894]Is it possible to have a 12 gauge that is tightly packed into a cylinder using only pyramids glued around a sabot? If it would work it would cause a lot more tissue damage when it breaks apart in the target.[/QUOTE]
I can't think of a reason why you couldn't. You would have to pull it off perfectly though or else it could fuck your gun up a bit I think.
[QUOTE=Bonde;17164189]It's probably decent if you want a .45 SMG, but since the MP5 is more widespread, the parts are more available and therefore it makes the weapon more practical.[/QUOTE]
That's what I thought, I just needed a second opinion.
Bean-o, have you do one on?
[img]http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/5/5e/SRS99D-S2_AM_Sniper_Rifle.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=ray243;17170583]Bean-o, have you do one on?
[img]http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/5/5e/SRS99D-S2_AM_Sniper_Rifle.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
The Sniper from Halo that happens to be modeled off of a South African heavy sniper rifle that was shown in District 9?
[QUOTE=Kman1;17164092]Ok, I was just curious on how practical the UMP is. I'm not buying one or anything.[/QUOTE]
It's a very good Subgun, it just missed the boat on the military/LE market because the MP5 has already filled that niche. That's not to say it hasn't found buyers, there are quite a few Departments and Units that have bought them up.
111)Vz. 58
[img]http://world.guns.ru/assault/vz58v.jpg[/img]
Often mistaken for the AK-47 and its variants the Samopal Vz. 58 is actually an excellent and reasonably successful design in its own right.
It dates back to the 1950s. Czechoslovakia was part of the communist block but they had always vied to be just a little bit more independent from mother Russia than many of its socialist neighbors. One way they expressed this resentment was with their firearm designs, namely the fact that while they were still chambered in Warsaw-pact calibers the designs were all different. In the 1950's it came time to get an assault rifle, which would replace the Vz. 28 SMG and Vz. 52 rifle much like how other nations replaced their mixed arsenals of rifles and subguns with firearms like the AK-47 and M-16.
Rather than adopting the AK-47 like every other communist country they designed their own gun. Staring in 1956, spearheaded by Jiří Čermák Samopal began working on what would later become the VZ. 58. Although the profile of this gun greatly resembles the AK series the workings are significantly different. Some have stated that it resembles the workings of a P-38 mixed with a Bren. It uses a somewhat unconventional short stroke piston that has its own return spring and operates independently of the bolt.
This bolt looks like something off an SKS where the carrier is highly exposed, with a handle on the right. It locks back after the last round is fired and even has stripper clip guides at the top of the bolt face for SKS clips. While it can take those the Czechoslovakians wanted to distance themselves from the Russians even further and thus they felt the need to make it take its own magazines which function fine but are not interchangeable with the AK-47 series.
Either way, it actually works quite well, perhaps even better than the Kalashnikov family. While it fires the same cartridge all of the components are machined, rather than stamped and the overall build quality is significantly less sloppy. This allows it to be somewhat more accurate than the AK-47. In spite of being built to much tighter tolerances this gun is still highly reliable, capable of firing thousands of rounds without too much cleaning.
With the design completed in 1958 the army began testing them and adopted this design in 1959. It has been in service with Czechoslovakia ever since. It is still in use with the Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. There are three major versions. The Vz. 58"P" is the standard wood-stocked variant, the "Pi" is the same thing only with a mounting bracket on the left side of the receiver for a night vision scope and the "V" which has a distinctive side-folding stock which reportedly works much better than the AKS/AKMS under-folder.
Of course this design had been adopted by other countries as well. It is popular in African/South American/Middle Eastern and a few Asian countries such as Sudan, Guinea, Ethipoia, Cuba and Indonesia as an improved albeit slightly more expensive alternative to the AK-47 family.
It is also popular with civilians. In Canada there are laws forbidding the ownership of any firearm that uses the AK action (including the Saiga) because it was arbitrarily determined that no civilian could have any legitimate use for such a weapon. Semi-automatic Vz. 58 variants are popular there because they have no commonality with the AK series and are therefore legal.
The same semi-automatic variants have been offered in the US as well. Both the Canadian and US Vz. 58s are very high-quality rifles that are offered at competitive prices although they hadn't been around long enough to earn much of a name for themselves and are still often mistaken for AK variants.
Never the less, in spite of their relative obscurity and the fact that this design has spent its ever-continuing service life in the shadows of the AK family, roughly one million of these guns were made making this design at very least a modest success.
I've considered a Vz. 58 but they're huge and heavy, other than that they look like really awesome rifles.
You sure? It says they weigh something like 7-8 pounds loaded.
We had a gun discussion in my A+ certification class (local community collage class for a fricken hard computer test, go Google it) today.
Apparently a 9mm is enough to blow you're head off, a shotgun has no recoil and almost everyone in my school knows how to use a gun just like in the movies.
FYI I'm a member of a local gun club, owned and shot various calibers of guns and a NRA member, i was facepalming the entire class.
Imagine sticking Bean-O in a room full of Halo/CoD playing 12 year olds and trying to get a decent discussion about weapons.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;17152653]I thought that the Remington 700 was the M24, not the M40.[/QUOTE]
It's both, The M24 is the US Marines version, it's a long action so it can be chambered in 7.62mm and 338 Lapua
The M40 is short action so it can only chamber 7.62mm
[editline]03:42PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=CaptainSnake;17153224]Slighty unrelated but for the lulz
[img]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9832/asdasdum.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I don't know where you Americans came up with this Liberal crap, A Liberal supports LIBERTIES, The democrats are not Liberal. Owning a gun is a liberty
Go look it up, what every American thinks of as a liberal is exactly the opposite in the rest of the world
[quote=Wikipedia]Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, suitable for a free man) is the belief in the importance of individual freedom.[/quote]
[QUOTE=ksenior;17172862]It's both, The M24 is the US Marines version, it's a long action so it can be chambered in 7.62mm and 338 Lapua
The M40 is short action so it can only chamber 7.62mm
[editline]03:42PM[/editline]
I don't know where you Americans came up with this Liberal crap, A Liberal supports LIBERTIES, The democrats are not Liberal. Owning a gun is a liberty
Go look it up, what every American thinks of as a liberal is exactly the opposite in the rest of the world[/QUOTE]
In America we call that "Classic liberalism"
And if I'm not mistaken, the Vz.58 is much more accurate then most AKs. Probably because the AKs sold here tend to be the ones made by the angry beavers over at Century Arms.
And regarding the M16: Just two drops of Slip 2k, wipe, make it somewhat dry, you're good to go.
In Australia, the Liberals are conservative, and also were the government who brought in our current gun laws (which banned everything short of a super soaker).
That said, they had a good reason for that. Some loon in Tasmania got trigger happy.
Even so, isn't that there 'Liberals' removing Liberties?
So Americans aren't the only ones who's Liberals are the exact opposite.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;17160317](I'm surprised they hadn't been sued).[/QUOTE]
Why would firearms manufacturers give a care that their logos or product names are being used in a VIDEO GAME. That would be like Springfield sueing the makers of a WWII game for copyright infringement because it has their products in it under their real names and including logos. Never before has there ever been a single reported case of such thing, and people who do change the names and/or logos to avoid a nonexistant issue are just paranoid. There are also countless games that do use the real names/logos.
They could sue if the game showed the weapon as very poor.
That would be like Mcdonalds sueing Burger king because they claim their Whopper is superior to the Big mac
[QUOTE=Exalion;17174969]In Australia, the Liberals are conservative, and also were the government who brought in our current gun laws (which banned everything short of a super soaker).
That said, they had a good reason for that. Some loon in Tasmania got trigger happy.
Even so, isn't that there 'Liberals' removing Liberties?
So Americans aren't the only ones who's Liberals are the exact opposite.[/QUOTE]
I'm an Australian, the Australian "Liberal" party are conservative, and thus not true liberals. Back in the 1940's (when they where founded) they would've been considered Liberal compared the the ultra right wing party's of the 30's and 40's. Thus this is why there called Liberals
The Liberal Democratic party which I support are true liberals [url]http://ldp.org.au/[/url] and there pro gun and pro weed and pro a whole bunch of other things I believe in
The conservatives in America only support gun ownership because it's tradition
[QUOTE=esrande;17172653]We had a gun discussion in my A+ certification class (local community collage class for a fricken hard computer test, go Google it) today.
Apparently a 9mm is enough to blow you're head off, a shotgun has no recoil and almost everyone in my school knows how to use a gun just like in the movies.
FYI I'm a member of a local gun club, owned and shot various calibers of guns and a NRA member, i was facepalming the entire class.
Imagine sticking Bean-O in a room full of Halo/CoD playing 12 year olds and trying to get a decent discussion about weapons.[/QUOTE]
I have two friends that play COD4 and 5 and try to use that as knowledge about guns. It feels great to shove some knowledge down their throats and have then be like :aaa:.
[QUOTE=redonkulous;17176017]I have two friends that play COD4 and 5 and try to use that as knowledge about guns. It feels great to shove some knowledge down their throats and have then be like :aaa:.[/QUOTE]
i find CoD4 somewhat accurate.
notrly though
[QUOTE=LE0N1;17174990]Why would firearms manufacturers give a care that their logos or product names are being used in a VIDEO GAME. That would be like Springfield sueing the makers of a WWII game for copyright infringement because it has their products in it under their real names and including logos. Never before has there ever been a single reported case of such thing, and people who do change the names and/or logos to avoid a nonexistant issue are just paranoid. There are also countless games that do use the real names/logos.[/QUOTE]
They usually don't since it is more or less free publicity but it doesn't change the fact that any gun name or logo is actually a trademark and belongs to the company. While the company in question usually doesn't sue over cases like that they still have the right to. That's why all the names of the weapons in CS were changed.
There is a specific exception with communist bloc weapons since there was no such thing as a trademark or copyright back then. I think in CS they changed the AK-47 to CV-47 (or whatever it is called) to keep it consistent with all the other name changes.
Paranoid? Perhaps, but using a different name doesn't affect gameplay that much and they can't get sued that way.
I have gotta love the [b]mini[/b] guns like
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TeYqvpk-A[/media]
[img]http://www.singulier.com/boutique_us/images_produits/Xythosrevolver_1.jpg[/img]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBbjt3OZydg[/media]
[img]http://togetherhere.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/apache2.jpg[/img]
The Apache Knuckleduster
This little guy is a antique Apache Knuckleduster. Its a 3-in-1 killing machine. I’m not a fan of guns, but this is one cool weapon. As the situation escalates, you have a more lethal weapon to use. It has brass knuckles, a 3 1/2 inch dagger, and an 7mm or .27 caliber pinfire gun.
[img]http://togetherhere.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/apache1.jpg[/img]
It was sold in the US from about 1870 to 1900. (source) Obviously this gun is an antique and obtaining one might cost you upwards of $2,500. Others quote it at $4000 from an antique firearm seller.
[editline]04:11PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheForeigner;16154370]Bean-O what you think of cornershot?
[img]http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cornershot-3.jpg[/img]
Also link to wiki: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot[/url][/QUOTE]
You gotta love the cat that comes with the corner shot
[img]http://domhyde.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/cornershot_kitty1.jpg[/img]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3akshKMSpyY[/media]
here is a vid
[QUOTE=professional;17171361]It's a very good Subgun, it just missed the boat on the military/LE market because the MP5 has already filled that niche. That's not to say it hasn't found buyers, there are quite a few Departments and Units that have bought them up.[/QUOTE]
Ok, you do have the best avatar for this thread.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;17176456]They usually don't since it is more or less free publicity but it doesn't change the fact that any gun name or logo is actually a trademark and belongs to the company. While the company in question usually doesn't sue over cases like that they still have the right to. That's why all the names of the weapons in CS were changed.
There is a specific exception with communist bloc weapons since there was no such thing as a trademark or copyright back then. I think in CS they changed the AK-47 to CV-47 (or whatever it is called) to keep it consistent with all the other name changes.
Paranoid? Perhaps, but using a different name doesn't affect gameplay that much and they can't get sued that way.[/QUOTE]
Still though, not even a company like HK sues over that. I've also noticed that it's sometimes done entirely on purpose though, IE the game's set in an alternative universe. In games aiming to be realistic/historical though it's almost never done. I really don't see how you can bring something like that to court though and not have the judge just laugh at you because some company used that copyright in a virtual world. Hell they should appreciate the media exposure their weapons will get.
[QUOTE=Jewels;17176829]
You gotta love the cat that comes with the corner shot
[img]http://domhyde.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/cornershot_kitty1.jpg[/img]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3akshKMSpyY[/media]
here is a vid[/QUOTE]
The corner shot is a waste of time and money. Although the cat, oh man wow. Aiming at the enemy one spots you, he only sees your weapon and thinks it's a cat when it's actually a gat. :v:
The corner shot is a pointless gun that can be replicated with a pistol and mirrors taped to it.
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