Yeah I hear you. Still despite its inefficiencies it remains quite effective.
Most things are straightforward. The major choke points are grey areas, and new laws. The Anti fox hunting law (not worth the paper its written on) choked up the lords and commons multiple times until it was passed. The courts still have alot of power and any law has to be checked over 3 times before its sworn in, once by the House of Commons, once by the House of Lords, and presumably Queenie reads them before she signs them.
And we sliiiiiiide off topic :v:
(Royalty holds more power than people think, for a start, its their military, even the Army, which prides itself on not being royal but being parliament has royalty as their C&C. The Queen is the head of state, and also the head of states, and heir to the leaderships of many many nations, and best of all she can sack parliament and order a general election. PLEASE CAN SHE DO THIS NOW.)
I'm glad I live in America I fell bad for you British gun owners. But anyways fuck non-lethal If anyone ever breaks into my house they'll be stairing down the bayonett and barrel of my M91-30 Mosin-Nagant. I live in NY and if you don't kill the intruder you can be arrested for intent of lethal force. Even if you only have a shotgun with bean-bag rounds. The intruder can say he felt his life was in danger and you, the victim can go to jail.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;15946322]I'm glad I live in America I fell bad for you British gun owners. But anyways fuck non-lethal If anyone ever breaks into my house they'll be stairing down the bayonett and barrel of my M91-30 Mosin-Nagant. I live in NY and if you don't kill the intruder you can be arrested for intent of lethal force. Even if you only have a shotgun with bean-bag rounds. The intruder can say he felt his life was in danger and you, the victim can go to jail.[/QUOTE]
In that case I fe[b]e[/b]l bad for New Yorkers. I'd rather have the option of scaring away an intruder than being forced by poorly written laws to kill them.
Then again it's probably not just New York. I heard there are similar legal clusterfucks in random jurisdictions within the US.
Also Mosin Nagants aren't that great for home defense. Too much power, too unwieldy and the rate of fire is too slow. The rifle bullet could also penetrate the intruder, your wall, your neighbor's wall, your neighbor and just about anything else. Where that bullet will go after it has done it's job is a good thing to consider.
Surprisingly gun control in the UK is pretty lax, nowhere near as lenient as US controls but you'd be surprised. You need a licence, and you're subject to a few checks. There are regulations on how to keep a gun and its ammo. But pretty much any Shotgun or Bolt Action can be owned. Under leaver rifles are popular. Semi's are allowed, but the magazine is restricted to 3 rounds. Pistols cannot be owned, but long barrelled revolvers, longer than I think 14 inches, can be owned too.
The controls are not the reason why guns aren't so common. There simply isn't the desire to keep them in the majority of people.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;15946322]I'm glad I live in America I fell bad for you British gun owners. But anyways fuck non-lethal If anyone ever breaks into my house they'll be stairing down the bayonett and barrel of my M91-30 Mosin-Nagant. I live in NY and if you don't kill the intruder you can be arrested for intent of lethal force. Even if you only have a shotgun with bean-bag rounds. The intruder can say he felt his life was in danger and you, the victim can go to jail.[/QUOTE]
I'd take the bayonet off... M91/30s are already ridiculously long. Just sayin. :)
[QUOTE=Bean-O;15946597]In that case I fe[b]e[/b]l bad for New Yorkers. I'd rather have the option of scaring away an intruder than being forced by poorly written laws to kill them.
Then again it's probably not just New York. I heard there are similar legal clusterfucks in random jurisdictions within the US.
Also Mosin Nagants aren't that great for home defense. Too much power, too unwieldy and the rate of fire is too slow. The rifle bullet could also penetrate the intruder, your wall, your neighbor's wall, your neighbor and just about anything else. Where that bullet will go after it has done it's job is a good thing to consider.[/QUOTE]
Part of the reason why the L1A1 SLR was dropped from British Army service was that kind of over penetration. It was perfect for the vast expanses of the Falklands, but a town in Northern Ireland... not so hot. It wasn't unheard of for people to be injured or killed in their homes 100, 200, even 400 metres from the fire fight. The IRA had similar experiences with the FAL. I have heard 800 metres before but I've seen no evidence for it.
O I know of it's over penetration Even with my custum made Varmit rounds thats I use ( Boy its fun shooting shit with them) But lenght wise it is long and the bayonet makes it longer but it goes along with the slow reload time. What if the round is a dud and I dont have time to chamber a new round? In comes the bayonet. But also my only other gun of mine that I would use for home defense is my Remington 11-87 12ga. But back on over penetration I live in a rural area with one neighbor on the opposite side of the road and as my room is at the end of a hallway at the top of the stairs that looks away from the road I don't worry about hitting anything.
do the k31
every other gun is for chumps, the k31 is for kool katz
Actualy I would Like to see what you think of the Remington 11-87. As far as I'm concerned it's better then the 1100
I don't know about the K31...
It was only in service within Switzelrand and about 500k were built but no one else ever used them.
It is kind of neat how you can get a gun with 2,500$ worth of quality and workmanship at big 5 for less than 1/5 of that cost but the ammo will make up the difference. It is way too rare and expensive.
So a good number of them were made but I don't know if it was particularly influential and ONLY Switzerland ever used it.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;15947630]I don't know about the K31...
It was only in service within Switzelrand and about 500k were built but no one else ever used them.
It is kind of neat how you can get a gun with 2,500$ worth of quality and workmanship at big 5 for less than 1/5 of that cost but the ammo will make up the difference. It is way too rare and expensive.
So a good number of them were made but I don't know if it was particularly influential and ONLY Switzerland ever used it.[/QUOTE]
yeah but the design itself was in use for like 70 years and is way superior to conventional bolt action rifles
it's too unique to not do a writeup on, besides, either my rifle was used by a prankster or was used by this man: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Stutz[/url]
I don't think it's a modern fake because the tag is real ratty and dirty like all other tags, but there are no ID numbers or addresses on the tag- just a name. He's have to be like 60 years old though because mine was made in 1935, but it isn't totally out of the question right?
[QUOTE=Bean-O;15947630]I don't know about the K31...
It was only in service within Switzelrand and about 500k were built but no one else ever used them.
It is kind of neat how you can get a gun with 2,500$ worth of quality and workmanship at big 5 for less than 1/5 of that cost but the ammo will make up the difference. It is way too rare and expensive.
So a good number of them were made but I don't know if it was particularly influential and ONLY Switzerland ever used it.[/QUOTE]
The Vatican guards used them, and the gun is regarded as the most accurate military bolt action rifle ever made, and I think it was one of the first straight pull bolt action rifles ever made (the original long rifle was anyway, not the K31), it deserves an article.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;15950203]The Vatican guards used them, and the gun is regarded as the most accurate military bolt action rifle ever made, and I think it was one of the first straight pull bolt action rifles ever made (the original long rifle was anyway, not the K31), it deserves an article.[/QUOTE]
standard issue GP11 is match-grade too
Saiga-12 (Or 10, whichever gauge you prefer.)
[img]http://www.tromix.com/images/S02-16inchwt.gif[/img]
M14
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/M14_afmil.jpg[/img]
Jericho 941 "Baby Eagle" (I know the Desert Eagle is on the Weaboo thread, but this certainly isn't some .50AE bullshit.)
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Jericho_941F.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=DarkSin;15950969]Saiga-12 (Or 10, whichever gauge you prefer.) - part of ak47 article, it is just a variant.
M14 - already in the thread
Jericho 941 "Baby Eagle" (I know the Desert Eagle is on the Weaboo thread, but this certainly isn't some .50AE bullshit.) - desert eagle is not just in 50AE you know.
[/QUOTE]
Commented.
So anyone got any input on my Remington 11-87?
[QUOTE=deadoon;15951077]Commented.[/QUOTE]
The Saiga 12 (10? I didn't know they made one in ten gauge...) isn't really a variant of the AK, the gas system and the bolt, etc are very very different. Plus he did the Galil which is even more of an AK variant than the Saiga.
And the Jericho, as far as I know isn't really anything like the Desert Eagle, just kinda shares some similar aesthetics, but it's too new to really warrant an article.
64)Remington 11-87
[img]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/rem1187pol1.jpg[/img]
One of the big, new things to hit the world or shotgun shooting like a wayward clay pigeon to the skull is a new shotshell. The most popular shell used is the 12 gauge 2 and 3/4 inch with a variety of loads. That means it is 12 gauge in diameter and 2.75 inches long. This number has been around forever. But now that the 3 inch has being introduced everyone wants their gun to be able to fire it as well. Essentially a 3 inch is the same 12 gauge shell only .25 of an inch longer. In layman's terms it's just more powerful.
While it doesn't take much effort to retool a pump-action shotgun assembly plant to make it so that the new guns can fire a slightly more powerful load, semi-automatics are a somewhat more complicated manner. The problem lies in the gas system. It is fine-tuned to function like clockwork based off the recoil given by a standard shell. If the shell is less powerful, the action won't cycle properly and you will have to cycle it manually. If it is more powerful, it can damage the weapon.
This is where the Remington 1100 has a slight problem.
It can fire 2.75 inch shells and only 2.75 inch shells. In order to fire the bigger shell it was taken, the gas system reworked to accommodate a bigger round and then marketed as the 11-87. But there's more.
They could have never gotten away with selling a gun that only fires 3 inch shells. The 2.75 is still more popular. Thus the 11-87 has the gas system tweaked such that it will function without any user adjustment between 2.75 and 3 inch loads. You can cram the tube with a random handful of the two and just fire them off. But as a result of all this tweaking part compatibility between the 11-87 and 1100 (and by proxy 870) is somewhat skewed. The barrels, as well as numerous other components can not be swapped between the two.
Because of this flexibility the sales of the 11-87 have surpassed that of its older brother (which is still available). Much like the 1100 it is marketed towards both civilian and law enforcement sales where it has a very healthy share of the semi-automatic shotgun market.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;15915703]
[img]http://homestudy.ihea.com/ammo/images/ammo_shotshell.gif[/img]
[/QUOTE]
You could always try it with .22's instead of bb's haha.
[QUOTE=zerglingv2;15955280]You could always try it with .22's instead of bb's haha.[/QUOTE]
Yo dawg I heard you like bullets. So we put a bunch of bullets in yo bullet so you can shoot while you shoot.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;15955307]Yo dawg I heard you like bullets. So we put a bunch of bullets in yo bullet so you can shoot while you shoot.[/QUOTE]
If you went goose hunting you could murder the shit outta them but then again why not just use buckshot. Would be extreme overkill, all you need is some T-shot.
[QUOTE=zerglingv2;15955334]If you went goose hunting you could murder the shit outta them but then again why not just use buckshot. Would be extreme overkill, all you need is some T-shot.[/QUOTE]
You don't hunt birds with buckshot. You use birdshot. A whole bunch of smaller pellets.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;15955362]You don't hunt birds with buckshot. You use birdshot. A whole bunch of smaller pellets.[/QUOTE]
That's why I said T-shot :)
[QUOTE=jgerm529;15946322]I'm glad I live in America I fell bad for you British gun owners. But anyways fuck non-lethal If anyone ever breaks into my house they'll be stairing down the bayonett and barrel of my M91-30 Mosin-Nagant. I live in NY and if you don't kill the intruder you can be arrested for intent of lethal force. Even if you only have a shotgun with bean-bag rounds. The intruder can say he felt his life was in danger and you, the victim can go to jail.[/QUOTE]
Cool, you use your bolt action war relic. I'll stick to a shotgun that I can use responsibly in a home defense situation.
You're accountable for everywhere your bullets go and everything they do. I'd prefer not to have only 1 shot to get it right, then also have on my mind that no matter what I do, I have no control over where the bullet could do.
Also, I can only imagine a crook laughing at you trying to get around indoors with some pike of a gun like that. End up getting it taken away from you and shot with your own gun.
[editline]08:41PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DarkSin;15950969]Saiga-12 (Or 10, whichever gauge you prefer.)
[img]http://www.tromix.com/images/S02-16inchwt.gif[/img]
[/QUOTE]
There isn't a saiga-10.
65)CZ-75 series
[img]http://world.guns.ru/handguns/cz75b.jpg[/img]
There have been a number of combat handguns that were so successful that they became household names. While the CZ-75 series may seem obscure to some, it is actually a phenomenally successful design.
Czechoslovakia has had a very long history of firearm development and even as a soviet bloc state it retained an air of independence from the various other socialist republics. This became apparent in one case when the state-owned CZ firearm company decided to build a handgun for export sales. They decided to put the Koucky brothers on the job and by 1975 they were finished with their masterpiece.
It is simply a wonderful handgun, one of the very first wonder-nines. It borrowed the idea of the double-stacked magazine from Browning's Hi-Power as well as it's safety. That manual safety allows the user to carry the gun with a round chambered and a hammer cocked safely, which is somewhat rare even today. But there is something odd about the CZ, something distinctive. Rather than having the slide locked to the outside of the frame, it rolls along rails built facing inwards. This is why that slide has such a slim profile. The idea behind that came from Switzerland's P-210, which is the most accurate 9mm handgun ever made. Having the slide run along grooves on the inside of the frame rather than the outside helps keep the barrel in place and helps improve accuracy. Perhaps the only flaws were the grips, as with many eastern-bloc firearms ergonomics were initially a secondary concern at best.
But damn did this gun sell.
CZ claims that it is in use with more government agencies, from armies to police departments than any other handgun. While I'm not sure exactly how true that is the numbers don't seem to lie. It is a damn successful design. CZ alone claims to have made over a million CZ-75s and variants in their factory. And there are a lot of variants. There's a compact, a subcompact, a .22LR, an ambidextrous variant called the CZ-85 even a select-fire version that went nowhere. It mainly sees law enforcement service in countries such as Finland, Poland, Lithuania, Slovenia, Iran, Honduras and it's native Czechoslovakia. It is also copied by Norinco in China where it sees some use and some have been sold to North Korea.
Of course China isn't the only country to make copies.
Sudan locally produces the CZ-75 in both 9mm and .32 ACP. That variant sees use with both it's army and police. Turkey and Chile manufacture them under license as well. But that's just a drop in the bucket. The REAL flood of clones comes from the civilian market within the US and Europe. Switzerland makes the Sphinx 2000 and 3000 series, An Italian company called Tangfolio makes copies as well. Israel makes the IMI Jericho which may look like a Desert Eagle but it's also based off the CZ-75.
But the real treasure trove of civilian copies is naturally in the United States. Springfield makes a copy called the P9, Armalite makes the AR-24 and if you've ever seen Miami Vice you may remember the 10mm Bren Ten, that's a CZ-75 clone too. (By the way there are rumors that the Bren Ten will be put back into production soon, if you're a 10mm/.45ACP fan)
In fact there are so many copies available within the US that when CZ found an importer and imported their updated CZ-75B (which has better ergonomics and a firing pin safety) they struggled to compete against their own copies at first. Today the relatively low cost (roughly 400$-500$ per gun) coupled with excellent quality has made all of it's variants a huge success. In fact with the popularity slowly catching up to other designs the prices are creeping upwards.
This is a trend seen around the world. The robust, reliable, accurate and pretty damn beautiful nature of this gun's design coupled with highly competitive prices have made it a real world-beater in the wonder-nine market. It isn't a comeback though, because this gun has been here for years and it isn't going anywhere any time soon.
Fuck yeah. Badass Bean-O.
I agree.
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