Do we have a soul? - General

[QUOTE=DrasarSalman;35119918]Then what exactly is the soul? Just a part of us that leaves when we die? I really don't see the point, because according to you we will not have any mental or physical similarities with our previous lives.[/QUOTE] I find a soul like, "Memoris, feelings, counscnes" and all that [I]makes[/I] us feel we got a soul. this is just what I think so I'm probably wrong since I'm mostly wrong, I'm retarded so am I at school

I believe the soul is the abstract aspects of our self. The feelings, the personality and the thoughts. Also jocke, please don't take part in conversations like this before you are older. Your abstract thinking and rhetoric doesn't seem too developed from what you're blabbing. Edit: Claiming soul doesn't exist is foolish and probably the result of merely relating soul to life after death and the christian religion which alot of people here (sometimes strongly) oppose. Abstract beings may require a mind to exist in but that doesn't make them any more unreal, just unphysical. Edit2: Ofcourse, I may be totally wrong, the existence of soul and such has been discussed by philosophers for so long. It would be very, very blunt and arrogant to just state which idea is right.

[QUOTE=Simski;35118499]I don't believe that such complicated things can exist without evidence or explanation to their existence. There is however nothing unrealistic or illogical about believing that we don't have a conciousness without a brain, and that it's silly to let a hypothesis dictate how you should live your life. I believe that unless that there is proof that something might exists, or proof that it might not exist, we have no reason to believe it's true. I don't believe the universe was created for a reason, because nothing proves it needs to exist for a reason. I don't believe there exists a real purpose to our lives, because nothing proves that there needs to be a reason to our existence. I believe we exist entirely by chance, and that the best reason to continue living is because you enjoy existing.[/QUOTE] That can be compared with faith, you believe what your books tell you and what science tell us. Science can be wrong, so does faith, but we believe what we know, we can't believe something that we don't know, and if we do we are being fools of our own ingnorance. If you study theology and phylosophy you might start believing, because you will find proof through the logic. God is like numbers, it's imposible to calculate infinity, well, God would be that, everything and everyone. Proud minds usually feel insignificant at this though so they decide to deny it. [QUOTE=Simski;35118499]I can see why you people might think of religion as something that would expand your view on life, but to me it only does the opposite. I believe our universe and everything in it, is a far greater unsolved mystery than what we can only assume religion offers. [B]To be religious would not make me feel free in any way, I feel like religion dictates how I should live and how I should think, and I do not wish to limit my mind is such a way[/B]. I have my own reasons for helping people, I believe that good actions encourage other good actions.[/QUOTE] How do you know? Have you ever been in a religion by your own will? Claiming that you know how something you never did will feel is foolish. Go as a missionary as I said before and you will be amazed by the new feelings that one can feel, it's something out of this world, it's true happines. [QUOTE=Simski;35118499]Many people like to refer to Pascal's wager that if you die an atheist and god is real, you go to hell. While if you die a religious man and god is not real, you die the same way as atheists. However what people forget is the life we live before we die. If you die an atheist, you lived a life of being allowed to think freely and enjoy life however you pleased. If you die a religious man, you lived a life of fearing the existence of hell and allowing something you can't prove dictate how you should live.[/QUOTE] Although my church says so, I believe that you're not judged by what you believe, but for how you lived your life.

The spirit carries on.

I'd like to think so. If we were just mere machines, why was I placed in this body? A wise man once said, "I think, therefore I am". If we were just mere machines then the universe would go on just fine without my existence, but I do exist. Why do I exist? I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows. No one can prove one way or another, just state their opinions like I have here.

Does this unit have a soul?

I'm an atheist, but somehow I believe in having a "soul"

Gingers definitely don't.

Aggre alot

[QUOTE=tommyc225;35122015]I'd like to think so. If we were just mere machines, why was I placed in this body? A wise man once said, "I think, therefore I am".[B] If we were just mere machines then the universe would go on just fine without my existence,[/B] but I do exist. Why do I exist? I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows. No one can prove one way or another, just state their opinions like I have here.[/QUOTE] the universe [B]would[/B] go on just fine without your existence.

I'd rather believe we don't, but I don't think there's any way to confirm it

[QUOTE=Javyer;35121764]That can be compared with faith, you believe what your books tell you and what science tell us. Science can be wrong, so does faith, but we believe what we know, we can't believe something that we don't know, and if we do we are being fools of our own ingnorance. If you study theology and phylosophy you might start believing, because you will find proof through the logic. God is like numbers, it's imposible to calculate infinity, well, God would be that, everything and everyone. Proud minds usually feel insignificant at this though so they decide to deny it.[/quote] Philosophy is in all actuality what gave me this stance. I have spent many years questioning what I believe in and looking for the most logical answers. I've been a Christian, but through philosophy and the logic behind it I've become atheist. More specifically, I am an Epicurean atheist. I have found my philosophy, I find the teachings of Epicurus to be the most humble and logical stance on life, morals, deities, and death. [QUOTE=Javyer;35121764]How do you know? Have you ever been in a religion by your own will? Claiming that you know how something you never did will feel is foolish. Go as a missionary as I said before and you will be amazed by the new feelings that one can feel, it's something out of this world, it's true happines.[/quote] I have been in a religion, until the age of 13 I was a Christian. Until the age of 16 I was an agnostic. To become atheist was to me a much more free experience. My morals are no longer dictated by punishment by hellfire or gods wrath, but my own logic and compassion for man. Despite believing that there is no true purpose for our existence, I enjoy knowing that I am free to decide how I want to live my life. I no longer fear hellfire, and my belief that there will be no eternal afterlife, has freed my fears of hellfire and has made me realize just how much more valuable this one chance to enjoy life is. You tell me I should become a missionary... Well, as ironic as it may sound... I consider myself a volunteer missionary for atheism. I don't want anyone to ever feel how I felt before I became atheist. I want to help people understand that they don't need to fear neither death, hellfire, or gods wrath. I want to help people understand that they can never know that they will ever have more than the life they live now, and therefor should not let uncertainty restrict the way they wish to enjoy life. I want to help people understand that morals can exist by pure simple logic, a contract between men to do no harm and receive no harm, cooperate to achieve harmony. Do no harm, and you will never suffer a guilty heart or the fear of revenge or punishment by law. I want people to understand that there is no definite purpose to life, so you are free to do whatever you please with yours. [QUOTE=Javyer;35121764]Although my church says so, I believe that you're not judged by what you believe, but for how you lived your life.[/QUOTE] This is a healthy way to look at life I can agree with. What I'm getting at however, is that I don't want religious people to let fear restrict how they enjoy life. Fear is common in every religion, I choose Epicureanism as my philosophy it promotes a life against fear and suffering in all its forms.

The way i see it is that in the very beginning of time, or the actual creation of time itself, there had to be something that didn't take on a physical form that may have created everything. for me, this entity is God. I don't know, it's just hard for me to think that all these events would fall in line to create humanity and my existence without any direction from some other non-physical being. Which brings me to the actual question; yes i do believe in souls. Something i like to think of when on the subject is basically "why me?" Why and how have I embodied this person out of the trillions of other possible candidates? Why am I not some other person on the other side of the world living a different life? All of these thoughts and questions end up leading to the conclusion that souls and afterlife exists, for me at least.

[QUOTE=Anastatius;35122556]Does this unit have a soul?[/QUOTE] yes legion :( ontopic: probably not to my knowledge (and everybody else's who isn't a nutjob) there isn't a single piece of evidence to support the notion that "some part of us" - the mind is what people mostly seem to be relating it to - exists and/or is able to transcend death >open case >shut case

[QUOTE=mcilona;35132057]The way i see it is that in the very beginning of time, or the actual creation of time itself, there had to be something that didn't take on a physical form that may have created everything. for me, this entity is God. I don't know, it's just hard for me to think that all these events would fall in line to create humanity and my existence without any direction from some other non-physical being. [/QUOTE] The chance of events falling in line to create humanity is incredibly low, but if they didn't, you wouldn't be around to observe that.

[QUOTE=tepholman;35132307]The chance of events falling in line to create humanity is incredibly low, but if they didn't, [b]you wouldn't be around to observe that[/b].[/QUOTE] Or would you?

My mom had a strange experience with death a few years ago regarding my great-grandmother. My mom and her were very close, and always used to talk about flying dreams and how both of them used to dream about them a lot. Both of them claimed to have extrasensory perception as well. Well one night my mom had a random dream with her, where they were flying together, and they flew up to the clouds where her grandmother told my mom to let go of her hand and she couldn't go any higher because the light was too close. My mom woke up and knew she was dead. 2 days later we get a phone call that my great-grandmother had passed away around the time my mom experienced the dream. The scary part is, we had absolutely no idea what was going on, not even knowing her health was degrading, and my mom wasn't even thinking about her in that time frame. As far as we knew, she was perfectly healthy. It was just a random dream she had. What freaked me out is she lived in Croatia too, which was over 5000 miles. Now it's hard to me to just call this a coincidence, but I really can't rationalize it. And I'm one of the first people that object to paranormal phenomena, like most users on Facepunch. I think we are limiting ourselves by relying on the scientific paradigm as a basis of prove on this subject. Perhaps several paradigm shifts need to happen to fully understand parapsychology. Either way I'm a lot more open to this idea than I was before.

[QUOTE=Thechuz1337;35033504]Do you believe that humans have a soul? A soul can be defined as something seperate from the body, that the soul is simply 'a ghost in the machine' and our bodies are just vehicles that transport it around. One may argue that the soul exists because of the great diversity between each individual on the planet and how we feel inside, can our brains just be the only cause of how we feel and react to events, and how our character is formed? Well then. How are you supposed to be sure that you even have a grasp on what a soul is? Im not even sure is many people get it. I would have to agree that its probably BS, but there is still a possibility that for some odd reason they exist but dont exist. Believing that the soul doesn't exist, and that our nature and feelings stem from the brain alone, i known as materialism. Dualism is the belief that we do have a soul and it is seperate from our body, and that it will travel to another spiritual plane when the body dies. Soft-materialism is the belief that we do have a soul, but it dies along with the body and doesn't travel to another spiritual plane. Arguments in favour of the soul are ones that include poeple having an 'Out of body experience' or travelling to heaven/seeing a white light when they die for a period of time. Ghosts may also be considered evidence for the soul. I believe that the soul doesn't exist, everyone is different due to the brain growing up in different ways than others (what society/culture etc). An example of this is how many serial killers or generally evil poeple came from a dire background, such as Hitler who had an abusive father, and, witnessed the Jews being more better off than him during Germany's hyper-inflation during the Weimar republic. Ghosts have not been proven to exist, I dont believe in them, so this doesn't affect my view on the soul. I consider myself a Materialist on this topic. What are your opinions? (sorry for the badly worded OP)[/QUOTE] This is a legitimate point. And, in response to the predictable "BUT HOW DO WE EXIST THEN" people, nothing had to happen. Its just that its highly probable to be inprobable to be inprobable. Remember that it really doesnt matter that we exist. My outlook is, to have fun. You have 80-100 years. Fuck diets, safety and annoying people.

[QUOTE=Mr_WOBBLeS;35133317]You have 80-100 years. Fuck diets, safety and annoying people.[/QUOTE] you don't have 80-100 years if you don't stay in good health lol

[QUOTE=Dark-Energy;35133180]My mom had a strange experience with death a few years ago regarding my great-grandmother. My mom and her were very close, and always used to talk about flying dreams and how both of them used to dream about them a lot. Both of them claimed to have extrasensory perception as well. Well one night my mom had a random dream with her, where they were flying together, and they flew up to the clouds where her grandmother told my mom to let go of her hand and she couldn't go any higher because the light was too close. My mom woke up and knew she was dead. 2 days later we get a phone call that my great-grandmother had passed away around the time my mom experienced the dream. The scary part is, we had absolutely no idea what was going on, not even knowing her health was degrading, and my mom wasn't even thinking about her in that time frame. As far as we knew, she was perfectly healthy. It was just a random dream she had. What freaked me out is she lived in Croatia too, which was over 5000 miles. Now it's hard to me to just call this a coincidence, but I really can't rationalize it. And I'm one of the first people that object to paranormal phenomena, like most users on Facepunch. I think we are limiting ourselves by relying on the scientific paradigm as a basis of prove on this subject. Perhaps several paradigm shifts need to happen to fully understand parapsychology. Either way I'm a lot more open to this idea than I was before.[/QUOTE] it was just a coincidence. also, it's your [B]great[/B] grandmother - she was most likely very old, and pretty close to death anyway also also, think of the number of times that people have dreams and then think someone has died in real life, but then when they check they're actually fine. this just goes unreported because it just isn't as interesting. I've had it happen once or twice myself. there's a really good feynman quote about this, I need to dig it up edit: ah here it is: [quote=Richard Feynman]I remembered the time I was in my fraternity house at MIT when the idea came into my head completely out of the blue that my grandmother was dead. Right after that there was a telephone call, just like that. It was for Pete Bernays– my grandmother wasn’t dead. So I remembered that, in case somebody told me a story that ended the other way. I figured that such things can sometimes happen by luck–after all, my grandmother was very old–although people might think they happened by some sort of supernatural phenomenon.[/quote] [editline]14th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=mcilona;35132057]The way i see it is that in the very beginning of time, or the actual creation of time itself, there had to be something that didn't take on a physical form that may have created everything. for me, this entity is God. I don't know, it's just hard for me to think that all these events would fall in line to create humanity and my existence without any direction from some other non-physical being. Which brings me to the actual question; yes i do believe in souls. Something i like to think of when on the subject is basically "why me?" Why and how have I embodied this person out of the trillions of other possible candidates? Why am I not some other person on the other side of the world living a different life? All of these thoughts and questions end up leading to the conclusion that souls and afterlife exists, for me at least.[/QUOTE] you and your body aren't separate. it's not as though your body is like a container that "you" were injected into at birth. your physical brain and nervous system and skeleton and organs and skin are literally you. you are what your body feels like from the inside. [editline]14th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=tommyc225;35122015]I'd like to think so. If we were just mere machines, why was I placed in this body? A wise man once said, "I think, therefore I am". If we were just mere machines then the universe would go on just fine without my existence, but I do exist. Why do I exist? I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows. No one can prove one way or another, just state their opinions like I have here.[/QUOTE] You certainly are a machine, but that in no way makes you "mere". Also the guy who said "I think therefore I am" wasn't really such a wise person.

We know that gingers don't have souls.

I think that, we are somehow related with all the universe, so... I guess such thing as "soul" can exist.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;35137210]it was just a coincidence. also, it's your [B]great[/B] grandmother - she was most likely very old, and pretty close to death anyway also also, think of the number of times that people have dreams and then think someone has died in real life, but then when they check they're actually fine. this just goes unreported because it just isn't as interesting. I've had it happen once or twice myself.[/QUOTE] All I'm saying is that a materialistic viewpoint on this subject doesn't really help explaining these things that well and I refuse to settle for those explanations until I have a solid answer. We have yet to discover a new paradigm to conclusively prove these things are something either outside of mankind's current basis of knowledge or that they really are absolutely nothing. Until I know for sure, I'll always be on the fence.

[QUOTE=Dark-Energy;35139377]All I'm saying is that a materialistic viewpoint on this subject doesn't really help explaining these things that well and I refuse to settle for those explanations until I have a solid answer. We have yet to discover a new paradigm to conclusively prove these things are something either outside of mankind's current basis of knowledge or that they really are absolutely nothing. Until I know for sure, I'll always be on the fence.[/QUOTE] Well you can never conclusively prove anything. Strictly you can only talk about probabilities, and the probability of this happening is extremely low. It seems plausible, but only because we are evolved brains that adapted to certain conditions, that are to some extent arbitrary. We think of things like emotions, mental states, personalities as simple-ish things, because we can intuitively understand them. But human beings are possibly the most complex objects in the known Universe, at least so far. In a pure sense, Newton's Laws of Motion, or String Theory, are orders of magnitude less complicated than human beings, but it doesn't feel that way because we have dedicated mental sub-units to process human behaviour, but not mathematical equations. On the face of it, spontaneous transmission of information of a dead loved one seems plausible-ish, but then when you think about how objectively complex such a proposition is, and the sheer depth of the implications that would carry, you really ought to go with the explanation that it really was a coincidence. It might be a 1-in-a-million chance, but remember that 1-in-a-million events happen 8 times a day in New York City. The human brain tends to [url=http://ars.sciencedirect.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0968090X05000136-gr2.jpg]blur together[/url] sub-5% probabilities: on a gut level, 0.001% doesn't feel all that much bigger than 0.000000000000000000000001%. This may be contributing to the confusion. If you're still unsatisfied, then all I can say is "deal with it". [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMDTcMD6pOw[/media]

I know I do.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;35137210]you and your body aren't separate. it's not as though your body is like a container that "you" were injected into at birth. your physical brain and nervous system and skeleton and organs and skin are literally you. you are what your body feels like from the inside.[/QUOTE] Actually, you aren't your body. In my opinion, the body is just built to move your brain around and interact with the world. The nervous system is what makes this possible. So basically the brain is you, it contains your feelings, your thoughts, your emotions and your personality. It even contains some things you can't control like instinct and reflexes. The brain may just seem like an engine, but to be honest, it is the heart which is the engine that keeps our brain and body going. Our brain is the main computer, the AI, and if you want to, the "ghost in the machine". The muscles move or "operate" our joints, while the nerves control the muscles and finally the brain control the nerves. What controls the brain? That might be influenced by the outside world, but nothing really control the brain, we can't control the brain, the brain is us, it is our mind. It doesn't really seem like it is any "spiritual powers" related to it. The body is a machine and the brain is controlling it, nothing more. The brain is a computer, and I thrust computers and what they have the potential to do. But, a computer is not directly controlled by the outside world or anyone using it, it is controlled by circuits told what to do and then preforming the action according to how they are wired. A computer is complex, it is advanced and so is our brain, it is so complex we don't know how it works and therefore can't prove weather it is us or not. This is why people believe in souls, this is why people believe in other supernatural phenomenas. Ghosts, for instance are being believed in because we don't know what happens when we die. Sorry for making a long post arguing with the theory I am supporting, I just wanted to make another argument about this in this thread while I was trying to tell you that the body is a machine and the brain is steering it.

Yeah I went a bit overboard when saying you are your whole body. I'd say about 99% of "you" is the brain, since the rest of the body also forms a small part of "us" that would be irretrievably lost if we were to be say, uploaded onto a computer.

I certainly believe all humans have a soul. I've peered into many.

These threads are always interesting because in a way the explanations for having a soul are because people want to believe that they don't disappear when they die, that their existence being erased doesn't mean that their mind is erased too. tl;dr we don't want to face our mortality.

You kids need to watch more Star Trek and Ghost In The Shell...