The problem that every country is frustrated with. Immigration - General

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36906605]I'm not saying that. I said [I]this type of immigration[/I] for a reason.[/QUOTE] What, the type where people who aren't Swedish live in Sweden? [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Hellsten;36906605]That's exactly what it doesn't you idiot.[/QUOTE] Don't throw insults. How come your culture is the only culture that is ever allowed to occupy that particular patch of land? What if you and the immigrants swapped countries every fifty years? No racial clash and everyone can survive, yeah? You pack up and go live somewhere else for a few decades, and they pack up and move to Sweden. And if you find life is hard in your new home, you can just deal with it yourself.

Yes, but not with a massive immigration like we have now. A restricted one with higher requirements.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36906550]But they can't come to your country, they need to stay in their own shitty little countries because they might muck up yours. If you thought they were equal, you wouldn't act like their mere presence is a threat to your entire way of life. If your way of life is threatened by mere exposure to foreigners, your way of life is racist.[/QUOTE] Yo I dunno if we're talking about the same immigrants but the ones here expected to come here and the streets be paved with gold. When they get here they do not work, do not pay tax and do not provide any positive influence on society (obviously not literally every single one but the majority). Not only this but the crime rate around their islands, which they chose to form themselves despite there being very little racism in this country (truly) and constant prodding by the local councils to spread out and be, you know, multiculturalsitic they steadfastly refuse, preferring to stay together in their little India/Pakistan/Bangladesh

[QUOTE=Lankist;36906629]Don't throw insults.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I just got frustrated because it is what I was trying to say all the time.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36906665]Yes, but not with a massive immigration like we have now. A restricted one with higher requirements.[/QUOTE] Yeah or: [QUOTE=Lankist;36906629]What if you and the immigrants swapped countries every fifty years? No racial clash and everyone can survive, yeah? You pack up and go live somewhere else for a few decades, and they pack up and move to Sweden. And if you find life is hard in your new home, you can just deal with it yourself.[/QUOTE] Problem solved. Everybody shares, everybody prospers and you never have to see each other.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36906605]I'm not saying that. I said [I]this type of immigration[/I] for a reason.[/QUOTE] You can abolish certain 'types' of immigration, but it doesn't actually solve anything. You're treating the symptoms, not the disease. Let me explain my position very carefully. Immigration can be a bad thing; but only when in the presence of a worse thing: poverty, ignorance, or hatred. These are the problems that need solving.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36906603]And why does your culture deserve to survive above theirs?[/QUOTE] Why do you deserve to survive above me? Because you want to. Because things generally want self-preservation.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906668]Yo I dunno if we're talking about the same immigrants but the ones here expected to come here and the streets be paved with gold. When they get here they do not work, do not pay tax and do not provide any positive influence on society (obviously not literally every single one but the majority). Not only this but the crime rate around their islands, which they chose to form themselves despite there being very little racism in this country (truly) and constant prodding by the local councils to spread out and be, you know, multiculturalsitic they steadfastly refuse, preferring to stay together in their little India/Pakistan/Bangladesh[/QUOTE] Source. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Eltro102;36906681]Why do you deserve to survive above me? Because you want to. Because things generally want self-preservation.[/QUOTE] I don't. If our cultures come into conflict, whichever one is better will hopefully win. I don't rightly care which, so long as you don't start abusing people if you win. I'm not going to step on you to get my way, ever. I've got ethics.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36906629]How come your culture is the only culture that is ever allowed to occupy that particular patch of land? What if you and the immigrants swapped countries every fifty years? No racial clash and everyone can survive, yeah? You pack up and go live somewhere else for a few decades, and they pack up and move to Sweden. And if you find life is hard in your new home, you can just deal with it yourself.[/QUOTE] But we have our history here, and they have theirs over there. I really want their country to function just like any other. I don't want world poverty. I just want nations to remain individual and not boring and the same everywhere.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906681]Why do you deserve to survive above me? Because you want to. Because things generally want self-preservation.[/QUOTE] You can't stuff words into his mouth and then argue against them. That's another type of straw man. Self-preservation has nothing to do with cultural preservation.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36906676]Yeah or: Problem solved. Everybody shares, everybody prospers and you never have to see each other.[/QUOTE] Or why don't we kill everyone on the earth? no immigration, problem solved! People do not want (big) worse things to happen to them so better things can happen to other people. (Donating to charity - they lose an tiny amount of money so they can feel better about themselves helping other people, whereas if they donated a lot more they would be helping, or volunteering to feel good about yourself and boasting, whereas just donating the plane tickets would have been a bigger help.)

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36906700]But we have our history here, and they have theirs over there.[/QUOTE] You have books. Shit, maybe you'll learn a thing or two about each other without ever having to come into conflict with them. Fact of the matter is, you just want to be king of the hill. If it were all about the people and the culture, the borders don't matter. I don't care how many historically significant rocks you can point out, those aren't the people and the culture. If it were really about preserving something so abstract as culture, it wouldn't matter where you did it.

Immigration under capitalism, is actually a way for capitalists to exploit even more workers. Workers of every ethnicity need to mobilize against the capitalists.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906706]People do not want (big) worse things to happen to them so better things can happen to other people. (Donating to charity - they lose an tiny amount of money so they can feel better about themselves helping other people, whereas if they donated a lot more they would be helping, or volunteering to feel good about yourself and boasting, whereas just donating the plane tickets would have been a bigger help.)[/QUOTE] If we would loose the immigration and whatever it costs for us to run it - I would suggest we keep paying same taxes and use that money for direct help instead.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906706]Or why don't we kill everyone on the earth? no immigration, problem solved![/QUOTE] Hey, buddy. I asked you to cite your source. I'd like to defer to Hitchens' Razor: A claim which is made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36906700]But we have our history here, and they have theirs over there. I really want their country to function just like any other. I don't want world poverty. I just want nations to remain individual and not boring and the same everywhere.[/QUOTE] Ah, the old "world peace is boring" argument. Well, I think you're just gonna have to suffer when the human race is exploring space, in peace and harmony, and you'll be BORED. Seriously, this kind of short-sightedness is absolutely insulting.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36906685]Source. [/QUOTE] My experience of being in and part of those cultures. (I can feel you gearing up to say but you have no points to back it up, and I don't because that is what I believe, it does not matter if I can be proved or not as it is what I believe and I won't convert you anyway). You can see it yourself I guess if you want to buy a pair of plane tickets to London.

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36906736]Ah, the old "world peace is boring" argument. Well, I think you're just gonna have to suffer when the human race is exploring space, in peace and harmony, and you'll be BORED. Seriously, this kind of short-sightedness is absolutely insulting.[/QUOTE] What I said was that without the national distinctiveness the world would be a boring and grey place (Think a world wide USA), and not that actual peace is boring. [editline]wtf[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36906708]You have books. Shit, maybe you'll learn a thing or two about each other without ever having to come into conflict with them. Fact of the matter is, you just want to be king of the hill. If it were all about the people and the culture, the borders don't matter. I don't care how many historically significant rocks you can point out, those aren't the people and the culture. If it were really about preserving something so abstract as culture, it wouldn't matter where you did it.[/QUOTE] My ancestors are and their belongings were buried in this very ground. They are bound to this place, spiritually and bodily. The historical monuments and antiquities left behind is an echo from the past and a constant reminder of our history, like a slumbering ancient power, slowly beating for our national identity. I've tried my very best to explain and every post I've made in this thread, is words spoken from my heart.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906758]My experience of being in and part of those cultures. (I can feel you gearing up to say but you have no points to back it up, and I don't because that is what I believe, it does not matter if I can be proved or not as it is what I believe and I won't convert you anyway). You can see it yourself I guess if you want to buy a pair of plane tickets to London.[/QUOTE] Anecdotal evidence is NOT VALID. It says so, very specifically, in the rules section of this forum. Go read it, and try again.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36906708] Fact of the matter is, you just want to be king of the hill. If it were all about the people and the culture, the borders don't matter. I don't care how many historically significant rocks you can point out, those aren't the people and the culture. If it were really about preserving something so abstract as culture, it wouldn't matter where you did it.[/QUOTE] Yes it would. People like to live where they idolize the best place for them, i e maybe for the swedish people in the swedish culture it is sweden?

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906758]My experience of being in and part of those cultures. (I can feel you gearing up to say but you have no points to back it up, and I don't because that is what I believe, it does not matter if I can be proved or not as it is what I believe and I won't convert you anyway). You can see it yourself I guess if you want to buy a pair of plane tickets to London.[/QUOTE] Read the rules for this subforum. No anecdotes. If all you have is anecdotal evidence, you have no place in a rational discussion. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Eltro102;36906784]Yes it would. People like to live where they idolize the best place for them, i e maybe for the swedish people in the swedish culture it is sweden?[/QUOTE] Germany for Germans? Greece for Greeks?

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36906774]Anecdotal evidence is NOT VALID. It says so, very specifically, in the rules section of this forum. Go read it, and try again.[/QUOTE] Then my claim is not valid, I never said it was valid, I said it was my experience, you can believe in it or not as neither of anyone's viewpoints will change.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906801]Then my claim is not valid, I never said it was valid, I said it was my experience, you can believe in it or not as neither of anyone's viewpoints will change.[/QUOTE] Your experience is irrelevant to the thread. Stop posting about it.

Besides that, no sources exist for the majority of my points.there is no way to see whether immigration has had a Lakeview effect on society here, it is all beliefs and anecdotAl evidence. Beliefs do not have any proof behind them, but it does not matter if the are factually wrong, on that the person believes they are true, and so will act based on them

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906920]Besides that, no sources exist for the majority of my points.there is no way to see whether immigration has had a Lakeview effect on society here, it is all beliefs and anecdotAl evidence. Beliefs do not have any proof behind them, but it does not matter if the are factually wrong, on that the person believes they are true, and so will act based on them[/QUOTE] What the hell are you babbling about? If your beliefs are not factually grounded, then why would you believe them? He's not saying that everything you say has to have a source. He asked for a source for one statement, and you've completely disengaged from logical debate.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906920]Besides that, no sources exist for the majority of my points.[/QUOTE] Then what [I]on earth[/I] have you been going on about this for?

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36906758]My experience of being in and part of those cultures. (I can feel you gearing up to say but you have no points to back it up, and I don't because that is what I believe, it does not matter if I can be proved or not as it is what I believe and I won't convert you anyway). You can see it yourself I guess if you want to buy a pair of plane tickets to London.[/QUOTE] uh i've lived in london and brighton, and i absolutely don't know what you are talking about. i've seen the immigrants work hard in their communities because their livelyhood depends on it, and this: [quote]which they chose to form themselves despite there being very little racism in this country (truly)[/quote] you must be joking, racism is incredibly widespread. i used to be beat up by white english kids for just being a jew.

[QUOTE=Megafan;36900478]Well no, more like they aren't valid sources.[/QUOTE] How are those sources not valid?

[QUOTE=shackleford;36910307]How are those sources not valid?[/QUOTE] Because the Sun isn't a reputable news organization. They're known to be extremely inaccurate in terms of factual representation, they possess no journalistic integrity and have even been caught fabricating entire stories in some instances.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36907506]you must be joking, racism is incredibly widespread. i used to be beat up by white english kids for just being a jew.[/QUOTE] 0/10 [QUOTE=thisispain;36907506]uh i've lived in london and brighton, and i absolutely don't know what you are talking about. i've seen the immigrants work hard in their communities because their livelyhood depends on it, and this:[/QUOTE] What he's trying to say is England is one of the most diverse countries in the world. [editline]24th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=shackleford;36910307]How are those sources not valid?[/QUOTE] He's expecting BBC and other ZOG controlled agencies to prepare racially realist crime statistics.