The problem that every country is frustrated with. Immigration - General

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36911492]I get that too. It was a rhetorical question intended to tell people I thought his post was funny.[/QUOTE] Ah sorry my bad.

[QUOTE=shackleford;36911494]Ahh yep those variables. I acknowledge that.[/QUOTE] then also acknowledge that the immigrant "crime problem" isn't a problem limited to immigrants, rather that the locals commit far more crime.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36911518]then also acknowledge that the immigrant "crime problem" isn't a problem limited to immigrants, rather that the locals commit far more crime.[/QUOTE] That's a seriously heavyweight point. If locals commit more crime in general, simply because there are more of them, then shouldn't we be stopping crime? What does immigration have to do with it? Stopping it would only stop a small fraction of the crime, so immigration isn't the problem. Crime is.

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36911541]That's a seriously heavyweight point. If locals commit more crime in general, simply because there are more of them, then shouldn't we be stopping crime? What does immigration have to do with it? Stopping it would only stop a small fraction of the crime, so immigration isn't the problem. Crime is.[/QUOTE] It's all just xenophobia prettied up like it's about crime.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36911550]It's all just xenophobia prettied up like it's about crime.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it seems like every anti-immigration argument presented thus far is either a complete fallacy or loosely veiled nationalism. However, I recognize that in a debate like this, almost everyone walks away feeling like they won.

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36911541]That's a seriously heavyweight point. If locals commit more crime in general, simply because there are more of them, then shouldn't we be stopping crime? What does immigration have to do with it? Stopping it would only stop a small fraction of the crime, so immigration isn't the problem. Crime is.[/QUOTE] you could say immigrants just learn to commit crime by watching the locals do it. this happened in Armenia. before Soviet bureaucracy embezzlement and bribery did not happen on a national basis because there wasn't any way to do it. When soviet bureaucracy became a way of life, so did embezzlement and bribery.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36910801]The point is that do you A: have any direct evidence that immigrants commit crime at a higher rate than anyone else and B: do you have supporting evidence which discounts poverty or oppressive conditions as the causes of said crime?[/QUOTE] I do not have adequate evidence to support my claim.

[QUOTE=shackleford;36911577]I do not have adequate evidence to support my claim.[/QUOTE] then where does your claim come from?

Explain this, thisispain. [QUOTE]Immigrants are overrepresented in Sweden's crime statistics. During the period 1997-2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were committed by people born abroad, while almost 20% were committed by Swedish-born people with a foreign background. Those from North Africa and the Middle East were overrepresented.[3][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911666]Explain this, thisispain.[/QUOTE] Why are you switching countries every time you're proven wrong? [editline]24th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=shackleford;36911577]I do not have adequate evidence to support my claim.[/QUOTE] You are probably the first person who has ever ceded a point due to a lack of evidence. Brofist.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911666]Explain this, thisispain.[/QUOTE] you explain it, i'm not gonna make a claim on your behalf.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36911689]you explain it, i'm not gonna make a claim on your behalf.[/QUOTE] The statistics are self explanatory. I want to hear what you will say about it.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911724]The statistics are self explanatory. I want to hear what you will say about it.[/QUOTE] This is not how you debate. You make a rational assertion, not make an unsourced quotation from fuck knows who and be all "WHAT NOW?" [editline]24th July 2012[/editline] Man, y'all motherfuckers would be horrible on a debate team.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36911745]This is not how you debate. You make a rational assertion, not make an unsourced quotation from fuck knows who and be all "WHAT NOW?" [editline]24th July 2012[/editline] Man, y'all motherfuckers would be horrible on a debate team.[/QUOTE] Way to avoid a question. Here, I'm providing vital/solid proof about Sweden's current immigrant crime statistics. [QUOTE]Immigrants are overrepresented in Sweden's crime statistics. During the period 1997-2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were committed by people born abroad, while almost 20% were committed by Swedish-born people with a foreign background. Those from North Africa and the Middle East were overrepresented.[/QUOTE] I have proven my point. Prove me wrong now.

You aren't citing anything. It's not proof. For all we know, you made it up.

what's the point? you didn't make that point, wikipedia did, and the article it sources says it's due to discrimination policies and poverty.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36911777]what's the point? you didn't make that point, wikipedia did, and the article it sources says it's due to discrimination policies and poverty.[/QUOTE] 45% of the crimes were committed by immigrants. [QUOTE=Lankist;36911771]You aren't citing anything. It's not proof. For all we know, you made it up.[/QUOTE] It's from Wikipedia, Einstein.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911789]45% of the crimes were committed by immigrants. It's from Wikipedia, Einstein.[/QUOTE] Wikipedia's source also, as Spain pointed out, indicates that the cause of the crime is poverty and discriminatory policy, NOT immigration. In layman's terms: the problem is you, not them.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36911898]Wikipedia's source also, as Spain pointed out, indicates that the cause of the crime is poverty and discriminatory policy, NOT immigration. In layman's terms: the problem is you, not them.[/QUOTE] What? If an immigrant is too poor to afford a house and his own food, then why even come to this specific country? It's not the government's duty to asslick the incoming immigrants. It's immigrants' fault, because the locals do just fine.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911916]What? If an immigrant is too poor to afford a house and his own food, then why even come to this specific country? It's not the government's duty to asslick the incoming immigrants. It's immigrants' fault, because the locals do just fine.[/QUOTE] Oh look at that. Yet again it just boils down to good old fashioned xenophobia.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911916]then why even come to this specific country?[/QUOTE] because the country invites them in order to do labour.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36911945]because the country invites them in order to do labour.[/QUOTE] They invite people who can afford to live in that country, but those who aren't come anyway. [QUOTE=Lankist;36911921]Oh look at that. Yet again it just boils down to good old fashioned xenophobia.[/QUOTE] I'm stating facts here bro. It IS true that most African countries are unwealthy, and their inhabitants are mostly uneducated and poor. If an unwealthy and uneducated person from an uneducated and unwealthy country migrates into a wealthy/high-class country, he'll be at the bottom and most likely end up committing crimes.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911965]They invite people who can afford to live in that country, but those who aren't come anyway.[/QUOTE] sweden has tight immigration controls so that's not the case

So the solution to your imaginary problem is to kick poor people out of the country.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36911975]sweden has tight immigration controls so that's not the case[/QUOTE] lol'd hard m8. Sweden's non-European immigrants: 8%. The best thing is, they commit 25-45% of the country's crimes. [QUOTE=Lankist;36911976]So the solution to your imaginary problem is to kick poor people out of the country.[/QUOTE] Don't let them in at the first place at all. You have your locals who are poor at the first place, adding more won't do any good.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36911990]lol'd hard m8. [/QUOTE] you obviously think this is a joke, but you need to apply for a stringent work visa in order to even consider going there. once they get there they become poor due to discrimination and lack of help from the government. this causes poverty. you can say the solution for this is not to invite immigrants, but Sweden invites immigrants for a reason, they have labour shortages. i told hellsten this but he went off on a totally different tangent.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36912009] once they get there they become poor due to discrimination and lack of help from the government. this causes poverty. you can say the solution for this is not to invite immigrants, but Sweden invites immigrants for a reason, they have labour shortages. i told hellsten this but he went off on a totally different tangent.[/QUOTE] They are discriminated? Sweden is one of the most tolerant countries out there. Plus, no red herring please.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36912027]They are discriminated? Sweden is one of the most tolerant countries out there. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/ewco/2005/05/SE0505NU03.htm[/url] [url]http://ftp.iza.org/dp2281.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/migrant/download/swedish_discr_synthesis.pdf[/url] experimental objective proof of discrimination in sweden [QUOTE=Absynth;36912027]Plus, no red herring please.[/QUOTE] red herrings? which red herring

[QUOTE=thisispain;36912040][url]http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/ewco/2005/05/SE0505NU03.htm[/url] [url]http://ftp.iza.org/dp2281.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/migrant/download/swedish_discr_synthesis.pdf[/url] experimental objective proof of discrimination in sweden red herrings? which red herring[/QUOTE] Those really don't tell anything about labour market discrimination.

[QUOTE=Absynth;36912064]Those really don't tell anything about labour market discrimination.[/QUOTE] the first one is titled "Ethnic discrimination in Swedish labour market".