The problem that every country is frustrated with. Immigration - General

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36878737] Try to put yourself in my position (I know it is hard, but try). You're a individual living in a country with a history going far back to the times when these lands were unoccupied. You feel a strong connection to your people, your culture and your ancestors. Your country is a peaceful and prosperous country. Somewhere else on the planet there are people living in despair and are in desperate need of help. Do you pick out a small amount of those people to come to your country to live a life on welfare and under undeployment (welfare bills you pay - which under the same time you note an increased crime rate and a negative cultural development), [I]or[/I] do you send the aid where you can help the most of them, where the problem is rooted?[/QUOTE] it takes a lot to make me cry and sweden like many other countries in the EU takes in immigrants due to labour, not because of refugees. i don't understand why you'd have a problem with asylum considering asylum is the reason 1/3rd of sweden's population emigrated out of sweden between the 19th and 20th century.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36878737]There's plenty to learn from animal life. And plenty has been learned already. How would you solve a dispute like this? Or would you rather not solve it? It is more comfortable to stay passive, as such has my countrymen found out, sadly. Try to put yourself in my position (I know it is hard, but try). You're a individual living in a country with a history going far back to the times when these lands were unoccupied. You feel a strong connection to your people, your culture and your ancestors. Your country is a peaceful and prosperous country. Somewhere else on the planet there are people living in despair and are in desperate need of help. Do you pick out a small amount of those people to come to your country to live a life on welfare and under undeployment (welfare bills you pay - which under the same time you note an increased crime rate and a negative cultural development), [I]or[/I] do you send the aid where you can help the most of them, where the problem is rooted?[/quote] Your animal example is flawed. A more proper example would be a lion (Swedes) having to "defend its territory" from an ant (immigrants, which make up a tiny portion of the population). [quote]Don't forget those born in Sweden with parents of foreign origin. Simply being born in Sweden does not make you an ethnic Swede, now that we are on the subject of ethnicity.[/QUOTE] If they are born in Sweden, then they would be of Swedish culture and they would speak Swedish. So what's the problem? Their skin tone?

[QUOTE=thisispain;36878871]it takes a lot to make me cry and sweden like many other countries in the EU takes in immigrants due to labour, not because of refugees.[/QUOTE] Explain to me why we would need immigrants due to labour when 25% of our youth is unemployed? Explain to me the reason behind the fact that immigrants receives free drivers license because it supposedly opens up possibilities for job employments, when our youth (including me :( ) does not get that benefit? Since the 1980s, the family immigration is dominating, followed by asylum immigration. [QUOTE=thisispain;36878871]i don't understand why you'd have a problem with asylum considering asylum is the reason 1/3rd of sweden's population emigrated out of sweden between the 19th and 20th century.[/QUOTE] They are here in right of asylum. But everyone knows they won't be returning. For example, Iraq terminated the readmission agreements. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36878884]Your animal example is flawed. A more proper example would be a lion (Swedes) having to "defend its territory" from an ant (immigrants, which make up a tiny portion of the population).[/QUOTE] I wouldn't exactly call 17,9% (in 2008 - only counting first and second generation foreigners) a tiny portion. You may feel like it is nothing today, but it is growing at an alarming rate. It is important to look beyond your nose. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36878884]If they are born in Sweden, then they would be of Swedish culture and they would speak Swedish. So what's the problem? Their skin tone?[/QUOTE] This is false. Most of them grow up in segregated communities with their cultures inherited from their parents who are still practicing their religion.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879091]I wouldn't exactly call 17,9% (in 2008 - only counting first and second generation foreigners) a tiny portion. You may feel like it is nothing today, but it is growing at an alarming rate. It is important to look beyond your nose.[/QUOTE] I seem to recall asking you for a citation. Now you need one for this claim and the previous one of ethnic Swedes being in danger.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879091]Explain to me why we need immigrants due to labour when 25% of our youth is unemployed? Explain to me the reason behind the fact that immigrants receives free drivers license because it supposedly opens up possibilities for job employments, when our youth (including me :( ) does not get that benefit?[/QUOTE] because your youth probably has poor work prospects or abilities. an immigrant labourer isn't gunning for youth jobs mate. they're gunning for full time jobs that earn family level wages. sweden is known for it's skilled labour shortages: [url]http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Work/Get-a-job/Labor-shortage-list/[/url] oh i'm sorry are the youth gonna be electrical engineers or machinists? you have a shortage of labour and the youth is utterly incapable of delivering that level of labour. this is happening across all wealthy nations. it's the reason why the united states has huge amounts of migrant workers. you want to be all nationalistic about sweden, but that's a pathetic prospect if you don't even know the condition of your nation.

[QUOTE=Megafan;36879164]I seem to recall asking you for a citation. Now you need one for this claim and the previous one of ethnic Swedes being in danger.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.scb.se/Pages/Product____25785.aspx?produktkod=BE0101&displaypressrelease=true&pressreleaseid=257212[/url] That should cover both. Have a nice reading!

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36878884]If they are born in Sweden, then they would be of Swedish culture and they would speak Swedish. So what's the problem? Their skin tone?[/QUOTE] I assume the problem is blood. Just because they've assimilated doesn't make them a Swede. They're just adapting.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36879185]because your youth probably has poor work prospects or abilities. an immigrant labourer isn't gunning for youth jobs mate. they're gunning for full time jobs that earn family level wages. sweden is known for it's skilled labour shortages: [URL]http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Work/Get-a-job/Labor-shortage-list/[/URL][/QUOTE] And you suppose they are to get hired with a lack of even knowing our language? Look up the link I'm leaving below in this post. There you will find the correct information about our labour immigration you speak of. [QUOTE=thisispain;36879185]oh i'm sorry are the youth gonna be electrical engineers or machinists? you have a shortage of labour and the youth is utterly incapable of delivering that level of labour. this is happening across all wealthy nations. it's the reason why the united states has huge amounts of migrant workers.[/QUOTE] It is the other way around buddy. [QUOTE=thisispain;36879185]you want to be all nationalistic about sweden, but that's a pathetic prospect if you don't even know the condition of your nation.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry? You're the one making things up. Here's the official site for migrations in Sweden. [URL]http://www.migrationsinfo.se/migration/[/URL] -Have fun.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879211][URL]http://www.scb.se/Pages/Product____25785.aspx?produktkod=BE0101&displaypressrelease=true&pressreleaseid=257212[/URL] That should cover both. Have a nice reading![/QUOTE] Obviously I've had to Google translate this into English, but if it's correct then this proves nothing that you've said: [quote]During the past year, 102 000 persons immigrated, an increase of 2 percent over the previous year. [B]The largest group of immigrants are returning Swedish citizens[/B], followed by Iraqis and Poles. The number of Swedish citizens who move to Sweden is 12 percent higher in 2008 than in previous years. [B]The immigration of Iraqis[/B], which is still very high, [B]has declined by 21 percent over the last year.[/B] This year, 12,000 Iraqi citizens immigrated versus 15,000 in 2007. This may be partly explained by a reduced number of asylum seekers from Iraq while dismissed in decline for this group.[/quote] Onto what I'm guessing you'll point to: [quote]Ten years ago, 11 percent of the Swedish population foreign born. This proportion has risen steadily since then and are calculated on New Year's Eve this year would be 14 percent. Among the foreign born are Finns, with their 176 000, the largest group followed by 108 000 were born in Iraq.[/quote] Wow, a whole 14%! That means only a tiny 86% were born in Sweden, 1% off from what I previously stated. Even excluding the Swedish-born whose parents were foreign-born (18% when combined with that 14%), that still leaves 82% assimilated Swedes. [quote]Sweden loses in the year 26 000 Swedish citizens through emigration. Four out of ten who emigrate are moving to Norway, the UK or U.S.. Norway is the country where the most moving. The proportion of men who move to Norway is slightly larger than that of women. The opposite applies to UK and U.S.. Seven out of ten foreign nationals emigrating moving to the country where they have their citizenship. Total emigrate 44 000 people, leading to an immigration surplus at record high of 57 000 persons. Among both immigrants and emigrants are slightly more men than women. Immigrants made up 52 percent of men and 48 percent of women. Among emigrants, the corresponding figures are 55 and 45 percent. These preliminary data are available only at the national level.[/quote] So yeah, Sweden has lost some citizens to emigration. Pretty sure this happens to every nation at one time or another. Pretty small amount compared to the 6 million+ population of the country. So still, you have yet to adequately provide for your assertions.

Iraq? You don't even need already falling statistics to see that there's obviously not going to be a continued large immigration from there. People flee war zones, they can't be a war zone forever, pretty simple problem.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879091]I wouldn't exactly call 17,9% (in 2008 - only counting first and second generation foreigners) a tiny portion. You may feel like it is nothing today, but it is growing at an alarming rate. It is important to look beyond your nose.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Megafan;36879337](18% when combined with that 14%) So still, you have yet to adequately provide for your assertions.[/QUOTE] Am I missing something here? [editline]22nd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Devodiere;36879390]Iraq? You don't even need already falling statistics to see that there's obviously not going to be a continued large immigration from there. People flee war zones, they can't be a war zone forever, pretty simple problem.[/QUOTE] Yeah? And for how long has the middle-east been a warzone?

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879392]Am I missing something here? [editline]22nd July 2012[/editline] Yeah? And for how long has the middle-east been a warzone?[/QUOTE] I was more referring to how this in any way proves that ethnic Swedes are under threat or danger.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879392]Yeah? And for how long has the middle-east been a warzone?[/QUOTE] Do you not pay attention to what is going on? People say it's a war zone but it did actually reach a peak in about 2007. It's dropping now, they're dealing with a bit of an insurgency but it's not that worse than any other country or how they've been for the rest of their time. You know, when they weren't migrating en masse. The problem that was making them migrant so much is mostly gone, it's going to drop, your fears of extrapolated growth are unfounded.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879257]And you suppose they are to get hired with a lack of even knowing our language? Look up the link I'm leaving below in this post. There you will find the correct information about our labour immigration you speak of.[/QUOTE] learning simple swedish is easy compared to labour skills and experience. i spoke pretty good french within 6 months of living there. and uh your source agrees with me dude [quote]More than 40% and most of the overall percentage who received residence permits in 2011, it received from employment[/quote] it's called translate. [quote]refugee families 3.3%[/quote] this is exactly the point, your country-men are inviting immigrants, and they're doing it for an important economic reason. [b]without immigration you would be in serious economic trouble[/b]

We just need a political reformation. There are several parties who can deliver that.

a political party willing to sabotage your economy? that's not doing the swedish people any favours.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879652]We just need a political reformation. There are several parties who can deliver that.[/QUOTE] Who, the Sweden Democrats?

Multiculturalism would destroy other cultures. Soon it won't be multicultural. This is shown in the history of Mauritus. Before, it was dominated by Europeans, Dutch, British and French of mostly mixed Christianity. Slowly the Indians bred in the Island to be the majority. Now they are. They breed and stuff up the voting system and soon took control. Is it still multicultural? Barely.

[QUOTE=shackleford;36879718]Multiculturalism would destroy other cultures. Soon it won't be multicultural. This is shown in the history of Mauritus. Before, it was dominated by Europeans, Dutch, British and French of mostly mixed Christianity. Slowly the Indians bred in the Island to be the majority. Now they are. They breed and stuff up the voting system and soon took control. Is it still multicultural? Barely.[/QUOTE] this is hilarious because it's analogous to the swedish immigration situation. the indians were brought over by the british for economical support and labour. there was no fucking multiculturalism, there were indentured servants brought to work in perpetual wage slavery. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius[/url] from where did you pull out this absolutely distorted historical view?

[QUOTE=shackleford;36879718]Multiculturalism would destroy other cultures. Soon it won't be multicultural. This is shown in the history of Mauritus. Before, it was dominated by Europeans, Dutch, British and French of mostly mixed Christianity. Slowly the Indians bred in the Island to be the majority. Now they are. They breed and stuff up the voting system and soon took control. Is it still multicultural? Barely.[/QUOTE] If the Indians became the majority, then why should they not have control?

[QUOTE=thisispain;36879671]a political party willing to sabotage your economy? that's not doing the swedish people any favours.[/QUOTE] If you only could realize what is going on in Sweden. The breakdown of our infrastructure in the form of trade, health insurance and elderly care where the rights of the elderly are overlooked - there is no question of attending the generation that built up the welfare. You should understand that it would be sensible to ensure that everyone who is already in Sweden have jobs before bringing in more mouths to feed. [editline]skeepan[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafan;36879705]Who, the Sweden Democrats?[/QUOTE] Such as.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879984]If you only could realize what is going on in Sweden. The breakdown of our infrastructure in the form of trade, health insurance and elderly care where the rights of the elderly are overlooked - there is no question of attending the generation that built up welfare. You should understand that it would be sensible to ensure that everyone who is already in Sweden have jobs before bringing in more mouths to feed.[/QUOTE] The condescending "if you only you knew how right I am" is unneeded here.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879984]If you only could realize what is going on in Sweden. The breakdown of our infrastructure in the form of trade, health insurance and elderly care where the rights of the elderly are overlooked - there is no question of attending the generation that built up welfare. You should understand that it would be sensible to ensure that everyone who is already in Sweden have jobs before bringing in more mouths to feed. Tentatively.[/QUOTE] If migrant workers in Sweden are like migrant workers in America than they are likely taking jobs that a vast majority of the native citizens would never take. Mostly jobs that involve long hours of menial labour that many native citizens often feel above/never consider doing, such as seasonal farming jobs. So really most of those jobs the migrant workers take are jobs that aren't usually taken by a society that is more focused on skilled labour rather than unskilled labour. I am sure that there are also educated people, such as doctors and engineers, who immigrate to Sweden too but I doubt you would want to kick them out.

It's called wage dumping. [editline]lol...[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafan;36880033]The condescending "if you only you knew how right I am" is unneeded here.[/QUOTE] Your ability to remain impartial is striking. I suppose this, [QUOTE=thisispain;36876690]you really can't be that deluded to think they are comparable.[/QUOTE] wasn't condescending at all then?

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36880104]Your ability to remain impartial is striking. I suppose this, wasn't condescending at all then?[/QUOTE] That was condescending and unnecessary as well.

Sorry for the attitude, I just assumed you were lashing at me because our differing views. I'll be done with this discussion. As interesting as it was it hasn't changed my perspective.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36880272]Sorry for the attitude, I just assumed you were lashing at me because our differing views. I'll be done with this discussion. As interesting as it was it hasn't changed my perspective.[/QUOTE] OK have fun saving your race from the brown people.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36879778]this is hilarious because it's analogous to the swedish immigration situation. the indians were brought over by the british for economical support and labour. there was no fucking multiculturalism, there were indentured servants brought to work in perpetual wage slavery. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius[/url] from where did you pull out this absolutely distorted historical view?[/QUOTE] How is it a distorted historical view? There are similarities to the immigration problem. They became the majority overtime. And with their numbers, they can hold majority in Government positions. Slavery isn't even relevant and also slavery also may bring along cultures if you didn't realise. [editline]22nd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=King Tiger;36879844]If the Indians became the majority, then why should they not have control?[/QUOTE] It is cunning. They are in every right to be in power. I'm just showing usually in the beginning of a multicultural society, there would be a culture that would be dominant. Soon that culture would have a larger population than the other cultures. Similar to free trade. There would always be a dominant corporation that would just overpower the smaller businesses. Just like how the dominant culture would overpower the other culture in politics because of numbers.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36879984]If you only could realize what is going on in Sweden.[/QUOTE] the swedish government tells me just fine what's happening to sweden and it's economy. labour shortage forces a need for migrant workers. sweden is a capitalist economy, in case you were unaware. [editline]22nd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Hellsten;36879984]everyone who is already in Sweden have jobs before bringing in more mouths to feed.[/QUOTE] Sweden isn't an agrarian command economy. the government can't control who has jobs or not. [editline]22nd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=shackleford;36880480]How is it a distorted historical view?[/QUOTE] i just pointed out how it's a distorted historical view. it's a completely non sequitur. sweden isn't importing indentured servants by the millions.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36880415]OK have fun saving your race from the brown people.[/QUOTE] This is all it really boils down to, and it's hilarious watching folks try to defend it.