The problem that every country is frustrated with. Immigration - General

Ok, I just need to make this clear. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36880415]OK have fun saving your race from the brown people.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Levithan;36884726]This is all it really boils down to, and it's hilarious watching folks try to defend it.[/QUOTE] Any immigration, not just that from the middle east. However it should be noted that immigrants from the middle east have a harder time adapting. Also, Japan has a extremely restrictive immigration but nobody is complaining about how 'racist' that is.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36884879]However it should be noted that immigrants from the middle east have a harder time adapting.[/QUOTE] Woah, wtf are you on about? That's racis! Etc. I know what you feel. This isn't about racism, this is about trying to protect your culture. I wonder how people will react once the European population becomes the minority in Europe and non-Europeans begin overpopulating the European countries. Trying to keep a steady amount of immigrants in your land is a smart thing to do. Opening up the borders and letting the others swarm in just because "you're not racis" will just show people how dumb you are.

Exactly. They are suggesting that I'm a racist, but in reality I just want to preserve my kinsmens right of national identity. [B]As much as I wish for other nationalities rights to preserve theirs[/B]. Lastly, I think it is unfair of Americans to comment on whether Sweden should remain ethnically homogeneous or not when USA is and has been multicultural for a very long time.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36884879]Also, Japan has a extremely restrictive immigration but nobody is complaining about how 'racist' that is.[/QUOTE] Well since you've decided to go down this road I'll say that it is somewhat racist. There is a great deal of latent prejudice among Japanese citizens, as well as issues with discrimination in the housing market. The process by which any non-Japanese person has to get a job (which you need for citizenship) is abominably slow and complicated, and even if you do the chances of success are pretty low. Not to mention they're going to be dealing with a declining population in a few years, so if anything they [I]need[/I] immigration. [editline]22nd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Hellsten;36885415]Lastly, I think it is unfair of Americans to comment on whether Sweden should remain ethnically homogeneous or not when USA is and has been multicultural for a very long time.[/QUOTE] I presume then that the French or British can not comment either, since they have many different types of immigrants as well? You can't set some arbitrary barrier as to who can comment on an issue, this doesn't work like that.

[QUOTE=Megafan;36885469]Not to mention they're going to be dealing with a declining population in a few years, so if anything they [I]need[/I] immigration.[/QUOTE] You know, solve labor shortages by importing hundreds of thousands of foreigners as opposed to you know, maybe having more fucking children? [QUOTE=Megafan;36885469]I presume then that the French or British can not comment either, since they have many different types of immigrants as well? You can't set some arbitrary barrier as to who can comment on an issue, this doesn't work like that.[/QUOTE] I'll say it again, you can't compare America, a country built off immigration, to one built off a single ethnic group that has a single language and culture, its also not like the British and French don't have their own ethnic and cultural identity.

I'm fine with it as long as they're doing it legally.

[QUOTE=AwpersAreBad;36885816]You know, solve labor shortages by importing hundreds of thousands of foreigners as opposed to you know, maybe having more fucking children?[/QUOTE] All first world countries are having less children, some even declining populations, it is an effect of having good education and women's rights. So saying that people should have more children goes against the nature population progression of first world countries. Also many of those jobs are not usually taken by naturally born citizens of that country, mostly because of widespread highschool level education.

[QUOTE=AwpersAreBad;36885816]I'll say it again, you can't compare America, a country built off immigration, to one built off a single ethnic group that has a single language and culture, its also not like the British and French don't have their own ethnic and cultural identity.[/QUOTE] Again, I'm not asserting that they're the same country, but that you can't go "you aren't fit to comment on x issue because of where you live or where you were born".

[quote]Opening up the borders and letting the others swarm in just because "you're not racis" will just show people how dumb you are. [/quote] This post shows how dumb you are. Don't like immigrants? Too bad, your nations exists in an interconnected, capitalist world economy, which as europeans you helped proliferate, often to the detriment of the lesser developed nations. When their people emigrate to other countries to find work, an inevitable result as capitalism encourages them as actors in an economy to do so, hypocritical fools like you want to restrict them not because you're 'victims' but actually because you're wielders of an economic monopoly (or want to be), especially in regard to the labor market. There's nothing more dishonest I can think of but to spread capitalism across the world and complain about its equalizing effects, then create bias in the market some by creating state-enforced monopolies. This is corporatism. Whether it's 'racist' or not is irrelevant because its still national chauvinism (racism is just a form of it), you want 'nationals' to have an arbitrary monopoly on something, culture, residency, whatever, because of your fetishistic views of them. This is actually pretty reactionary.

[QUOTE=Megafan;36886010]Again, I'm not asserting that they're the same country, but that you can't go "you aren't fit to comment on x issue because of where you live or where you were born".[/QUOTE] But stating that multiculturalism is good (or bad) for an ethnically homogeneous country based on how it works in your country (which is very much multicultural) is not right.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36886225]But stating that multiculturalism is good (or bad) for an ethnically homogeneous country based on how it works in your country (which is very much multicultural) is not right.[/QUOTE] And I'm not just basing it on my country. A number of European countries are multicultural as well.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36886225]But stating that multiculturalism is good (or bad) for an ethnically homogeneous country based on how it works in your country (which is very much multicultural) is not right.[/QUOTE] Why?

[QUOTE=Megafan;36886387]And I'm not just basing it on my country. A number of European countries are multicultural as well.[/QUOTE] Then I suggest you look further into the effects it has had on those nations. Crime rate is a good start.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36886414]Then I suggest you look further into the effects it has had on those nations. Crime rate is a good start.[/QUOTE] How about you do it, since you're the one that brought up crime rate.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36886414]Then I suggest you look further into the effects it has had on those nations. Crime rate is a good start.[/QUOTE] It's not my job to research what you're suggesting as truth.

It is in my personal opinion that if illegal immigrants come over and want to work, they should at least work for minimum wage. I don't care if they do that. What I do care about is when they come over and work for sub-minimal wage. I do not like it when that happens, although I feel like there's not much I can do.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36884879] Also, Japan has a extremely restrictive immigration but nobody is complaining about how 'racist' that is.[/QUOTE] uh because everyone knows japan has an incredibly racist society. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan[/url] many of the ethnic groups in japan, some of which have existed for a very very long time, get discriminated against constantly japan is a multi-ethnic society, but only non-ethnic japanese have political control.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36890107]uh because everyone knows japan has an incredibly racist society.[/QUOTE] I see, that definitely must be why the media never mentions it. [QUOTE=thisispain;36890107][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan[/URL] many of the ethnic groups in japan, some of which have existed for a very very long time, get discriminated against constantly japan is a multi-ethnic society, but only non-ethnic japanese have political control.[/QUOTE] So what you're saying is that a restrictive immigration is ok only as long as the subject country isn't a ethnically homogeneous one? Why are you so eager to shatter the domestic and cultural distinctiveness on this planet? Just because your country is multicultural one and has no uniqueness it doesn't justify your depressing views on other nations immigration politics.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36890900]I see, that definitely must be why the media never mentions it.[/QUOTE] which media? [QUOTE=Hellsten;36890900]Why are you so eager to shatter the domestic and cultural distinctiveness on this planet? Just because your country is multicultural one and has no uniqueness it doesn't justify your depressing views on other nations immigration politics.[/QUOTE] i'm from the UK we're more homogeneous and violent towards immigrants than sweden could even dream of being. and that's exactly why i resent your views. as a jewish person born there i didn't have a choice, my mum was a 1st generation english-woman, coming from my grandmother who survived the holocaust when she was a small child and married an englishman. i don't want to shatter any domestic or cultural distinctiveness. i love distinctiveness. i traveled europe just to experience distinctiveness. but what i abhor is nationalism, because it doesn't solve anything it just makes things worse. even though i was a full-blooded born brit me being jewish made children act violent towards me. it didn't stop at me, immigrants i knew were constantly berated by idiots who yelled "go home" or "you're ruining this country". your attitudes will destroy your country a lot quicker than labour immigration ever will because as soon as you kicked out the immigrants it won't stop there.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36891135]i don't want to shatter any domestic or cultural distinctiveness. i love distinctiveness. i traveled europe just to experience distinctiveness.[/QUOTE] :) [QUOTE=thisispain;36891135]but what i abhor is nationalism, because it doesn't solve anything it just makes things worse. even though i was a full-blooded born brit me being jewish made children act violent towards me. it didn't stop at me, immigrants i knew were constantly berated by idiots who yelled "go home" or "you're ruining this country".[/QUOTE] I'm sorry to hear that. That is not the kind of person I am though. I would never go so far as offending and harass someone like that. My political standing does not induce me to go and do something like that. [QUOTE=thisispain;36891135]your attitudes will destroy your country a lot quicker than labour immigration ever will because as soon as you kicked out the immigrants it won't stop there.[/QUOTE] It will and must stop there. Because I strongly believe nationalism (more or less) is the only thing that can preserve the domestic distinctiveness in the world, that both you and I love. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] Oh and I'm not talking about kicking anyone out with force (except the criminals) if that's the impression I've given. I thought it was clear that I only want to restrict immigration to a reasonable amount. Sorry if I was indistinct. If things ever settle down in the middle-east then we can give those who wishes to return readmission benefits.

Why is losing one's specific culture so horrid, aren't we all human? Things change, traditions fade, languages die, you can't preserve them all! Go with the flow, trade, mix, and share, it doesn't matter what your skin color is or who your great granddad was, in the end. Sure, we shouldn't neglect history, of who came and went, but we shouldn't neglect the future as well. In this day and age people migrate from culture to culture, changing them subtly, and sometimes in profound ways. People ARE gonna mix, that's how the world works, trying to isolate yourself, and inbreed, never helps in the long run.

[QUOTE=Levithan;36891822]Why is losing one's specific culture so horrid?[/QUOTE] I'm really not trying to pick on you but, as an American, that might be hard for you to grasp. I understand that you're a cosmopolitan and that's fine and all, but USA is the only nation with a real open world citizenship. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] I guess I just have this indescribable enchantment for my nationality. And I consider that a wonderful thing, aswell as when people in other countries has that same feeling for their nationality. I think it is a nice thought.

[QUOTE=Levithan;36891822]Why is losing one's specific culture so horrid, aren't we all human? Things change, traditions fade, languages die, you can't preserve them all! Go with the flow, trade, mix, and share, it doesn't matter what your skin color is or who your great granddad was, in the end. Sure, we shouldn't neglect history, of who came and went, but we shouldn't neglect the future as well. In this day and age people migrate from culture to culture, changing them subtly, and sometimes in profound ways. People ARE gonna mix, that's how the world works, trying to isolate yourself, and inbreed, never helps in the long run.[/QUOTE] By golly gee, what a wonderful world we live in. Lets all relax while everything we know and believe is swept up from underneath us, its the [I]natural[/I] way for cultures to allow themselves to disappear.

[QUOTE=AwpersAreBad;36893128]everything we know and believe is swept up from underneath us[/QUOTE] How? Suddenly more immigrants means that the entire way of life of the majority is being 'swept up from underneath you'?

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36884879]Also, Japan has a extremely restrictive immigration but nobody is complaining about how 'racist' that is.[/QUOTE] Probably because there are no Japanese people coming into this thread sputtering xenophobic crap. You let Scandinavia take the spotlight. You expect us to ignore you and start talking about a country that very few FPers live in?

[QUOTE=Levithan;36891822]Why is losing one's specific culture so horrid, aren't we all human? Things change, traditions fade, languages die, you can't preserve them all![/QUOTE] And how is trying to preserve your culture, your ethnic background, your race is so horrid to the others? I'll be honest, I'm against race mixing and cultural "enriching". I wouldn't call myself a racist, and I'd like to keep it this way. Forcing race mixing and multiculturalism down into peoples' throats to make them prove they're not racist is a foolish thing to do, people shouldn't opress those who don't want to racemix and/or people who just want to protect their culture from foreign identities.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36881860]i just pointed out how it's a distorted historical view. it's a completely non sequitur. sweden isn't importing indentured servants by the millions.[/QUOTE] But that is not relevant. And never said that immigration in Maritus caused the problem, but is comparable to the what's going on in Sweden, simply because there are people from a foreign country entering your country which is similar to a large degree, and also they were backed up later on by Indian immigrants shown here [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Mauritian[/url] under "Later immigrants". My point is that multiculturalism may destroy other cultures simply because of dominant culture that has more babies than other cultures, therefore they may take power in government due to their population. I believe that your view is slightly distorted.

[QUOTE=Megafan;36886887]It's not my job to research what you're suggesting as truth.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9410827/A-fifth-of-murder-and-rape-suspects-are-immigrants.html[/url] [url]http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/british-national-party-exclusive-%E2%80%98minorities%E2%80%99-responsible-majority-all-violent-crimes-[/url]

[QUOTE=sonerin;36895723]And how is trying to preserve your culture, your ethnic background, your race is so horrid to the others? I'll be honest, I'm against race mixing and cultural "enriching". I wouldn't call myself a racist, and I'd like to keep it this way. Forcing race mixing and multiculturalism down into peoples' throats to make them prove they're not racist is a foolish thing to do, people shouldn't opress those who don't want to racemix and/or people who just want to protect their culture from foreign identities.[/QUOTE] No one is forcing anything down people's throat, especially not this race "mixing" you're talking about. If two people love each other and decides to "mix", why not let them do it. What's wrong with it, except that their offspring now is a "mix"? Unless you see a mixed child as something negative, which you can't since you obviously aren't a racist right? I mean, what is preventing mixed children to carry on traditions and values that exists in the nation they are born in? Are different cultures locked to specific ethnic groups?

[QUOTE=sonerin;36896334][url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9410827/A-fifth-of-murder-and-rape-suspects-are-immigrants.html[/url] [url]http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/british-national-party-exclusive-%E2%80%98minorities%E2%80%99-responsible-majority-all-violent-crimes-[/url][/QUOTE] I don't think the BNP is a good source. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sonerin;36895723]And how is trying to preserve your culture, your ethnic background, your race is so horrid to the others? I'll be honest, I'm against race mixing and cultural "enriching". I wouldn't call myself a racist, and I'd like to keep it this way. Forcing race mixing and multiculturalism down into peoples' throats to make them prove they're not racist is a foolish thing to do, people shouldn't opress those who don't want to racemix and/or people who just want to protect their culture from foreign identities.[/QUOTE] Nobody is forcing race mixing what is wrong with you.